Peter,

First of all he is not my friend! My friends are all of, at least
normal intelligence on which point the bloke we are referring to
hardly qualifies, to say nothing of the requirement to be a gentleman.

But in regards to your paean regarding Kiwi accomplishments please
note that these were all the work of expatriate New Zealanders .... in
other words chaps that got tired of sheep and traveled abroad hoping
to find that there was something else.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce,
I do unreservedly apologise.

I just wondered why he attacked you so much. Now I realise that it is
mere envy on his part.

By the way, Bruce Farr designed winning America's Cup boat for New
Zealand whilst still in New Zealand and the self sealing paint tin was
invented in the 1880's or 90's by a resident postal clerk. The jet
boat was invented by Hamilton, a New Zealand high country farmer after
the war who needed a shallow draft boat to reach his property and
ailerons were invented in New Zealand.

Only Earnest Rutherford and Colonel Pickering of NASA did their thing
away from home.

With all of this we stuff it up sometimes.

The kiwifruit was originally a small berry brought back from China
(used to be called Chinese Gooseberry before the marketers renamed it)
and was cultivated to breed the large fruit of today. In the 70's it
was a gold mine as we were the only place in the world to grow and
export it. Then some moron sold the plants themselves to Chile and
received an export incentive award from the Government. Idiots! Chile
can grow it cheaper in the same season as ours and this resulted in
prices tumbling. Selling them to Italy and California is not as bad as
it is a different season.

We did the same with Brown and Rainbow trout. We are one of the few
countries with no Whirling Disease. We sent fry and eggs to Chile and
to Tasmania and now they compete with us in the world's markets. Dumb.
We even sent eggs and fry of a sub-species of Rainbow trout that had
died out in the USA (where we got them from in the 1880's) back to the
USA. It is from a Lake Gerhard in Oregon I think. The ones we sent
back were bigger than the original and were superb angling (fighting)
fish due to selective breeding in cooperation with local anglers. I
was working as a fisheries biologist for our Wildlife Service at the
time. I spent my time analysing the contents of 600 trout guts and in
writing data collection programmes.

For a country with the population of Singapore Island, we have not
done badly.

cheers
Peter

For a country with the population of Singapore Island, we have not
done badly.

cheers
Peter

Oh, by the way Bruce,

I simply cannot let the opportunity go by.

We were also the first country in the world to have real democracy in
that we were the first to have universal sufferage - men and women.

But then I suppose the term 'democracy' needs to be defined here.

Ours is mere electionaring and voting.

It does not include big business putting their man in and then
dictating foreign policy and thus reaping huge profits from their
initial investment from the war industries and oil.

You are right about NZer's migrating overseas. The 'brain drain' is
the reason why the New Zealand Government pushed for Australia to put
restrictions on NZ migration to Australia. Once we did not even need a
passport and could enjoy all the benefits of Australia such as instant
access to free Medicare, unemployment etc. Now we need a passport and
have to wait for the rest though the visa is still largely automatic.
One of the reasons why I took out Australian citizenship.

regards
Peter

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:00:09 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:35:13 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

In New Zealand as small children we were threatened by the "Bugi man"
along the lines of "If you don't be good, go to sleep etc., the Bugi
man will get you" I think it has since fallen out of favour, probably
to someone like Darth Vader.

The Bugi man is derived of course from the fierce Bugis sailors,
pirates and traders.


As the Buggis have a reputation every where they go for being a
troublesome race (instead of punching you in the nose they tend to
stick a knife in you) it is quite possible that in N.Z. you were
threatened by the Buggi man.

And immortalised by having a street in Singapore named after them?

:-)

--
Molesworth

Yes, Buggis Street is named after the Buggis,

Sold my car to a Kai-tai before I left.. a 1958 Standard 10..

just as Arab street is
named after Arabs

And bought my own (lost) Army kit back from a stall there..

:-)

and worked for a Chinese-Malay printing company (Sim-Wah Press) while
waiting for us Brits to leave..

--
Molesworth

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:30:53 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:



For a country with the population of Singapore Island, we have not
done badly.

cheers
Peter

Oh, by the way Bruce,

I simply cannot let the opportunity go by.

We were also the first country in the world to have real democracy in
that we were the first to have universal sufferage - men and women.

But then I suppose the term 'democracy' needs to be defined here.

Ours is mere electionaring and voting.

It does not include big business putting their man in and then
dictating foreign policy and thus reaping huge profits from their
initial investment from the war industries and oil.

You are right about NZer's migrating overseas. The 'brain drain' is
the reason why the New Zealand Government pushed for Australia to put
restrictions on NZ migration to Australia. Once we did not even need a
passport and could enjoy all the benefits of Australia such as instant
access to free Medicare, unemployment etc. Now we need a passport and
have to wait for the rest though the visa is still largely automatic.
One of the reasons why I took out Australian citizenship.

regards
Peter

Sorry, but my home town was holding "Town Meetings" in 1600-something.
A "Town Meeting" ,for the democratically challenged, is a meeting of
all the town's peoples where past and future problems are thrashed out
in public and a "Select Man" elected to run things for the next year.
Very close th the Viking "Thing".

Granted we had a king to take care of the larger problems but as far
as local affairs were concerned most of the New England states had a
primitive form of democracy (the kind where the people ARE listened
to) since the earliest days.

To the best of my knowledge Kiwi Land was unknown at that time, except
to the folks who stick their tongue out in greeting who didn't really
practice a modern form of democracy -- more a "Well, you lost, so into
the pot you go" sort of government :-)



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA



"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:30:53 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:



For a country with the population of Singapore Island, we have not
done badly.

cheers
Peter

Oh, by the way Bruce,

I simply cannot let the opportunity go by.

We were also the first country in the world to have real democracy in
that we were the first to have universal sufferage - men and women.

But then I suppose the term 'democracy' needs to be defined here.

Ours is mere electionaring and voting.

It does not include big business putting their man in and then
dictating foreign policy and thus reaping huge profits from their
initial investment from the war industries and oil.

You are right about NZer's migrating overseas. The 'brain drain' is
the reason why the New Zealand Government pushed for Australia to put
restrictions on NZ migration to Australia. Once we did not even need a
passport and could enjoy all the benefits of Australia such as instant
access to free Medicare, unemployment etc. Now we need a passport and
have to wait for the rest though the visa is still largely automatic.
One of the reasons why I took out Australian citizenship.

regards
Peter

Sorry, but my home town was holding "Town Meetings" in 1600-something.
A "Town Meeting" ,for the democratically challenged, is a meeting of
all the town's peoples where past and future problems are thrashed out
in public and a "Select Man" elected to run things for the next year.
Very close th the Viking "Thing".

Granted we had a king to take care of the larger problems but as far
as local affairs were concerned most of the New England states had a
primitive form of democracy (the kind where the people ARE listened
to) since the earliest days.

To the best of my knowledge Kiwi Land was unknown at that time, except
to the folks who stick their tongue out in greeting who didn't really
practice a modern form of democracy -- more a "Well, you lost, so into
the pot you go" sort of government :-)



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
snipped increasingly homosexual seeming language

But with a name like "Bruce" I guess I should have expected it. . .

I wish you and Herodotard would get a room. Your slobbering all over each
other is becoming quite disgusting. You sound just like a couple of in-love
lesbians!

Real sailors act like men, talk like men and walk like men. I can hear you
and Herodotard's skirts swishing for gawd's sake!


Wilbur Hubbard

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:29:31 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Sorry, but my home town was holding "Town Meetings" in 1600-something.
A "Town Meeting" ,for the democratically challenged, is a meeting of
all the town's peoples where past and future problems are thrashed out
in public and a "Select Man" elected to run things for the next year.
Very close th the Viking "Thing".

Granted we had a king to take care of the larger problems but as far
as local affairs were concerned most of the New England states had a
primitive form of democracy (the kind where the people ARE listened
to) since the earliest days.

To the best of my knowledge Kiwi Land was unknown at that time, except
to the folks who stick their tongue out in greeting who didn't really
practice a modern form of democracy -- more a "Well, you lost, so into
the pot you go" sort of government :-)



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Ah Bruce....,

What about the women though as well as the unpropertied such as
domestic servants and labourers, not to mention the slaves - and
Indians? At least there was the advantage that your non-friend Wilbur
could not vote. I don't think that a derelict with a derelict little
yellow sailboat would have qualified as a property owner.

It seems that this form of democracy was more akin to that in
classical Athens where in a population of 200,000, only about 20,000
'citizens' could actually vote. From my readings it appears that the
politicians and the democratic process were akin to those of today
with vested interests giving out crowd pleasers and with much rabble
rousing. Besides, many of them had to be forced to the agora to vote
anyway. Myself, I prefer the quiet sense of such as Solon. If only you
could get a presidential candidate with his integrity.

The Maori at the time may not have had the democracy of one man, one
vote but they did have the possibility of one of the best forms of
government - a benign dictatorship. Can we really say that we have
democracy in the true sense when our electors are not informed, ill
informed and much is kept from us by our politiocal masters?

As for the Maori eating their political opponents, one of my favourite
presidents, Bill Clinton, had his aid eating him, and quite tasty he
must have proved if accounts of the frequency of occurance are
correct.

Quid pro quo.

cheers
Peter

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:47:19 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:29:31 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Sorry, but my home town was holding "Town Meetings" in 1600-something.
A "Town Meeting" ,for the democratically challenged, is a meeting of
all the town's peoples where past and future problems are thrashed out
in public and a "Select Man" elected to run things for the next year.
Very close th the Viking "Thing".

Granted we had a king to take care of the larger problems but as far
as local affairs were concerned most of the New England states had a
primitive form of democracy (the kind where the people ARE listened
to) since the earliest days.

To the best of my knowledge Kiwi Land was unknown at that time, except
to the folks who stick their tongue out in greeting who didn't really
practice a modern form of democracy -- more a "Well, you lost, so into
the pot you go" sort of government :-)



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Ah Bruce....,

What about the women though as well as the unpropertied such as
domestic servants and labourers, not to mention the slaves - and
Indians? At least there was the advantage that your non-friend Wilbur
could not vote. I don't think that a derelict with a derelict little
yellow sailboat would have qualified as a property owner.

It seems that this form of democracy was more akin to that in
classical Athens where in a population of 200,000, only about 20,000
'citizens' could actually vote. From my readings it appears that the
politicians and the democratic process were akin to those of today
with vested interests giving out crowd pleasers and with much rabble
rousing. Besides, many of them had to be forced to the agora to vote
anyway. Myself, I prefer the quiet sense of such as Solon. If only you
could get a presidential candidate with his integrity.

The Maori at the time may not have had the democracy of one man, one
vote but they did have the possibility of one of the best forms of
government - a benign dictatorship. Can we really say that we have
democracy in the true sense when our electors are not informed, ill
informed and much is kept from us by our politiocal masters?

As for the Maori eating their political opponents, one of my favourite
presidents, Bill Clinton, had his aid eating him, and quite tasty he
must have proved if accounts of the frequency of occurance are
correct.

Quid pro quo.

cheers
Peter

Touche!


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:19:53 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
snipped increasingly homosexual seeming language

But with a name like "Bruce" I guess I should have expected it. . .

I wish you and Herodotard would get a room. Your slobbering all over each
other is becoming quite disgusting. You sound just like a couple of in-love
lesbians!

Real sailors act like men, talk like men and walk like men. I can hear you
and Herodotard's skirts swishing for gawd's sake!


Wilbur Hubbard



Real sailors sail boats which disqualifies you.

As I once told you, "I'm half way round the world and you are sitting
in a Florida swamp", so who's the sailor. Peter is half way round the
world, and you are still sitting in the swamp, so who's the sailor.

You can talk all you want but until you actually do sail your comments
have about the same value as a dog baying at the moon.

But you were talking about "Real Sailors", right? How about you tell
us why a Real Sailor is afraid to use his real name or real address.
It sounds to me as though you are afraid of the whole world, Wilbur
Hubard, he of the tiny testicles......


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:24:39 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

I love this newsgroup!

Thanks Bruce and the many others who so effectively cut that pathetic
whiner down to size. But you should give him some credit.... for
making me feel quite normal.

cheers
Peter, who feels positively buoyant.

Bruce,
As I have blocked your non-friend Wilbur, you can inform him that he
is partially correct in his summation of me. At sea in hot climes, I
wear a full length sarong as it is cooler and keeps the sun off my
legs.

If he thinks that "real sailors" who wear sarongs are in any way
effeminate (sp?) let him think about the Malay Customs men on patrol
in the Malacca Straits and south China Sea (many who are ex Special
Services and Navy Seals) who wear only sarongs off watch while
protecting 36% of the world's shipping from pirates and who shoot and
get shot at.

47 merchant seamen were killed last year in this area.

Give us a kiss wilie (small "w" to go with the small willie)

Peter

Real sailors act like men, talk like men and walk like men. I can hear you
and Herodotard's skirts swishing for gawd's sake!


Wilbur Hubbard



Real sailors sail boats which disqualifies you.

As I once told you, "I'm half way round the world and you are sitting
in a Florida swamp", so who's the sailor. Peter is half way round the
world, and you are still sitting in the swamp, so who's the sailor.

You can talk all you want but until you actually do sail your comments
have about the same value as a dog baying at the moon.

But you were talking about "Real Sailors", right? How about you tell
us why a Real Sailor is afraid to use his real name or real address.
It sounds to me as though you are afraid of the whole world, Wilbur
Hubard, he of the tiny testicles......


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)