On Jun 20, 6:26*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:
March 14 - On the road again...

As night approached, we thought to come back to the shoreline
area north of the channel, and anchor off Cumberland Island. *I
don't know what the bottom is there,


Did you looka at a chart. Somtimes charts have that info
How abouta crusing guide?
Or god forbid the Coast Pilot!

I made the decision
to, instead, heave to for the night.
Given the realities, I made the decision to get well clear of any
potential involvement with hard points. *

*Very
comfortably, we sat there, nearly motionless (other than our
slide to leeward), comfortable and dry, and slept soundly with
the anchor and cockpit lights ablaze.
When we arose to a brilliant day, later, we saw that we'd drifted
nearly 20 miles while hove to. *
Skip


My dear friend Skip................

While bobbing around hove-to did you have a someone responsible for
lookout duties who was actually awake at all times an looking out for
big hard objects?

Im not a very good reader and may have missed that point in you
description.

Bob

Hi, Bob, and list,

On Jun 20, 1:50*pm, Bob wrote:
On Jun 20, 6:26*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

March 14 - On the road again...
As night approached, we thought to come back to the shoreline
area north of the channel, and anchor off Cumberland Island. *I
don't know what the bottom is there,

Did you looka at a chart. Somtimes charts have that info
How abouta crusing guide?
Or god forbid the Coast Pilot!

Well, actually, we did. Only in retrospect, after having gone through
the chartkit, the paper individual chart, the cruising guide (no
comment), the charts on MaxSea and, finally, the Cap'n, did I find,
drilling down to a 0.5mile view in the Cap'n, that it was soft shale.

We usually rely on the charts' little notes for bottom stuff - but
until I did it a couple of days ago, at leisure, I couldn't find it.
No biggie, in any event, as we hove to...


I made the decision
to, instead, heave to for the night.
Given the realities, I made the decision to get well clear of any
potential involvement with hard points. *
*Very
comfortably, we sat there, nearly motionless (other than our
slide to leeward), comfortable and dry, and slept soundly with
the anchor and cockpit lights ablaze.
When we arose to a brilliant day, later, we saw that we'd drifted
nearly 20 miles while hove to. *
Skip

My dear friend Skip................

While bobbing around hove-to did you have a someone responsible for
lookout duties who was actually awake at all times an looking out for
big hard objects?

Im not a very good reader and may have missed that point in you
description.

Nope, you didn't miss anything, other than, perhaps, that before
heaving to, we made sure to get to deep water and out of the potential
way of any hard objects - and by the way, also very far off the beaten
track as to traffic of any sort, let alone shipping.

My current read is "cruising in seraffyn" and whaddya know? On Page
35, off the coast of Isla Guadaloupe, it reads:

"Just before sunset, the afternoon northwesterly caught us, and we
began an exhilarating sleigh ride that continued for the next three
days.

"Larry adjusted the windvane, reefed the main and adjusted the lapper
on the pole. With Helmer (Ed. note: the windvane/steering setup)
completely in control, we settled down for cocktails, steak, lobster,
baked potatoes and a tossed salad while we watched a fiery sunset over
the fast-disappearing island.

"That night we both slept soundly, far from the shipping lanes,
running along at over 5 knots. Morning found us far enough south to
discard our winter clothes and start sunbathing."

I don't know about you, but I rely on the good sense of people like
Lin and Larry, having read much of their later stuff - and if they can
sail full bore while they both sleep, due to their area and heading, I
felt pretty comfy hove to in similarly thought out circumstances :{))
And, for what it's worth, I have yet to see any mention of lights in
the book, whereas we were lit up like a Christmas Tree...


Bob

PS Dave, you don't have to protect me :{))

Tomorrow we leave for Flying Pig; update on our departure in a coming
post as it approaches...

L8R

Skip

On Jun 26, 6:08*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:
...and by the way, also very far off the beaten
track as to traffic of any sort, let alone shipping.
...
"That night we both slept soundly, far from the shipping lanes,
running along at over 5 knots. *Morning found us far enough south to
discard our winter clothes and start sunbathing."

I don't know about you, but I rely on the good sense of people like
Lin and Larry, having read much of their later stuff - and if they can
sail full bore while they both sleep, due to their area and heading, I
felt pretty comfy hove to in similarly thought out circumstances :{))
...

I'm not even sure where to start with this, Skip. I pretty regularly
hear folks who go offshore claiming that they feel silly running their
lights after day two or three off the coast because they never see any
shipping. However, the reason they never see any shipping is because
they never open their damned eyes. Yes, it is possible to go for days
without having any traffic at all in very remote places. However, it
is possible to have very close calls in very remote places. I had to
take evasive action about 1000 miles SSE of the Cooks once as we were
nearly run down by a fishing boat (not engaged in fishing) which had
no crew on the bridge or on deck. We've come across fishing boats,
fishing fleets, and small cargo vessels in some of the most remote
places left in the world. You may think that you were "very far off
the beaten path", but there was traffic out there.

Cherry picking bits and parts out of the sensational books and
emulating them is probably a bad idea. So, Lin and Larry say they
were drunk and stupefied and spent the night below. Hunter Thomson
claims that he was in a drug induced haze and driving his motorcycle
at absurd speeds for most of his adult life. These things make for
fun tales but aren't intended to be taken as how-to advice.

You are legally required to keep watch and so it everyone else. To be
sure when people think they are in remote places they often don't do a
good job of it. So, the poor fisherman who runs you down off the
coast of the US of A is going to loose his catch, and will likely find
himself being sued by you or your heirs when he gets ashore and may be
find himself put on trial by the state. You're welcome to trash your
boat or kill yourself and if your wife wants to go for the ride that
doesn't bother me either but have a thought for the poor buggers who
you are going to take down with you. Not keeping watch is bloody
selfish.

-- Tom.

On Jun 26, 5:08*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

Did you looka at a chart. Somtimes charts have that info

Well, actually, we did......*and, finally, the Cap'n, did I find,
drilling down to a 0.5mile view in the Cap'n, that it was soft shale.


You did not mention the Coast Pilot. Not sure which # yould use on the
east side of the states but I find the CP No. 7 a treasure trove of
nautical help. Get a couple and read it before you get underway.
NOw for the chart issue. I think you have just stumbled into one of
the problmes with "maps" paper or elctronic and why crusiing guides
have that "not intended for mavigation" disclaimer. A person needs
LOCAL/SMALL scale chart to get the bottom type symbols. Larger scale
charts wont have bottom type symbols.

But a person may ot even need the more detailed "local" charts if
thier able to read the surounding land.After spending some time under
water in llitoral areas it amazing how shore type reflests bottom
type.

We usually rely on the charts' little notes for bottom stuff - but
until I did it a couple of days ago, at leisure, I couldn't find it.
No biggie, in any event, as we hove to...



Im not a very good reader and may have missed that point in you
description.

Nope, you didn't miss anything, other than, perhaps, that before
heaving to, we made sure to get to deep water and out of the potential
way of any hard objects - and by the way, also very far off the beaten
track as to traffic of any sort, let alone shipping.

I am a tree hugging liberal member of the Democratic Party. The
president of the United States is an imbarrasment. Given that I am a
consevitive.


ColReg Rule 5: Lookout
It is there for a reason.

Aside from the oceans boat traveling Ive in the last two years ive
flown to Hawaii 4-5 times. Each time I have seen traffic: tugs,
sailboats, cargo, aircraft carrier....


My current read is "cruising in seraffyn" and whaddya know? *On Page
35, off the coast of Isla Guadaloupe, it reads:

I don't know about you, but I rely on the good sense of people like
Lin and Larry,


I too have read their stuff and have on one occasion met Mr. Purdy. I
find him to be an arrogant ass, sexist pig, and very experienced
mariner. I am amazed his personality has not got him into trouble yet.
But maybe he doesnt make it into his books or talking points

My Dear Skip,

Reading your post I find that:

1) you were not able to use charts or other means availible to
determine bottom type.
2) have violated a basic fundamental rule of vessel operation, failure
to maintain a PROPER LOOKOUT. this point is even more egregious
because adequate crew was available to act as Lookout.

Please remember that you have a large boat with lots of life on board.
I urge you to take that responsibility more seriously.

After reviewing this post again two words come to mind: cavalier and
lackadaisical.

Cordially and in friendhip,
Bob

On Jun 26, 10:54*am, Bob wrote:
On Jun 26, 5:08*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

Did you looka at a chart. Somtimes charts have that info
Well, actually, we did......*and, finally, the Cap'n, did I find,
drilling down to a 0.5mile view in the Cap'n, that it was soft shale.

You did not mention the Coast Pilot. Not sure which # yould use on the
east side of the states but I find the CP No. 7 a treasure trove of
nautical help. Get a couple and read it before you get underway.
NOw for the chart issue. I think you have just stumbled into one of
the problmes with "maps" paper or elctronic and why crusiing guides
have that "not intended for mavigation" disclaimer. A person needs
LOCAL/SMALL scale chart to get the bottom type symbols. Larger scale
charts wont have bottom type symbols.

But a person may ot even need the more detailed "local" charts if
thier able to read the surounding land.After spending some time under
water in llitoral areas it amazing how shore type reflests bottom
type.

We usually rely on the charts' little notes for bottom stuff - but
until I did it a couple of days ago, at leisure, I couldn't find it.
No biggie, in any event, as we hove to...
Im not a very good reader and may have missed that point in you
description.

Nope, you didn't miss anything, other than, perhaps, that before
heaving to, we made sure to get to deep water and out of the potential
way of any hard objects - and by the way, also very far off the beaten
track as to traffic of any sort, let alone shipping.

I am a tree hugging liberal member of the Democratic Party. The
president of the United States is an imbarrasment. Given that I am a
consevitive.

ColReg Rule 5: Lookout
It is there for a reason.

Aside from the oceans boat traveling Ive in the last two years ive
flown to Hawaii 4-5 times. Each time I have seen traffic: tugs,
sailboats, cargo, aircraft carrier....

My current read is "cruising in seraffyn" and whaddya know? *On Page
35, off the coast of Isla Guadaloupe, it reads:
I don't know about you, but I rely on the good sense of people like
Lin and Larry,

I too have read their stuff and have on one occasion met Mr. Purdy. I
find him to be an arrogant ass, sexist pig, and very experienced
mariner. I am amazed his personality has not got him into trouble yet.
But maybe he doesnt make it into his books or talking points

My Dear Skip,

Reading your post I find that:

1) you were not able to use charts or other means availible to
determine bottom type.
2) have violated a basic fundamental rule of vessel operation, failure
to maintain a PROPER LOOKOUT. this point is even more egregious
because adequate crew was available to act as Lookout.

Please remember that you have a large boat with lots of life on board.
I urge you to take that *responsibility more seriously.

After reviewing this post again two words come to mind: cavalier and
lackadaisical.

Cordially and in friendhip,
Bob

Well it least Bob got one thing right, you do need a lookout as your
boat was underway Skip. How you could sleep is beyond me.

Fred

On 2008-06-26 12:43:06 -0400, said:

Well it least Bob got one thing right, you do need a lookout as your
boat was underway Skip. How you could sleep is beyond me.

Fred

I agree here, particularly as you had 3 onboard. Anyone can keep an eye
out for 2-3 hours.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:08:10 -0700 (PDT), Skip Gundlach
wrote:


"That night we both slept soundly, far from the shipping lanes,

I have done two atlantic crossings, on ships, and saw no shipping at
all. Zip. Nada.

Casady

On Jun 20, 10:07*am, Dave wrote:

A suggestion, Bob.

Your consistently snide manner does not demonstrate either your experience
or your intelligence. It's simply snide. And it's quite off-putting to a
significant number of readers.


Three thoughs Dave:

First, I like Skip. He is a nice guy. Also, when I read in a public
forum somthing that doesnt make since I may comment. When I read
anyone post they did not know the bottom type of an anchor area I ask
myself , why, when there are so many information sources availible. I
would think anyone with the most basic understanding of yachting would
know how to determine bottom type. But maybe I missed that in his
post.

Second, when i read his comment regarding "hove-to" lead this reader
wondering who was the lookout. His post are typically detailed and
lengthy. I got the impresion the lights were on and nobody was on
watch which for me is a troubling thing knowing a boat is MAKINGWAY
with no lookout.

Last, Dave is was thinking of ignoring your message to me. but guess
im just too board so here ya go. If you dont like what i write dont
read it... For god sakes get a life.
Bob

On Jun 22, 8:09*pm, Dave wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:13:57 -0700 (PDT), Bob said:

If you dont like what i write dont
read it... For god sakes get a life.

I wasn't commenting on what you write about. I was commenting on your manner
of expressing yourself.

Like Nealbur Bob is bitter and it shows clearly everytime he speaks.

Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated.

Fred

On Jun 26, 8:19*am, wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:09*pm, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:13:57 -0700 (PDT), Bob said:

If you dont like what i write dont
read it... For god sakes get a life.

I wasn't commenting on what you write about. I was commenting on your manner
of expressing yourself.

Like Nealbur Bob is bitter and it shows clearly everytime he speaks.

Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated.

Fred


Dear Fred:

I repeat:
If you dont like what i write dont
read it... For god sakes get a life.
Bob