Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

This is a trivial question, but it drives me crazy, and maybe somebody
can help me.
For my dinghy/davit system I have 4 triple blocks – two for each side.
All of them are for 3/8 line. Now here is the problem:
Every time when I put the dinghy down and again back the line is
twisted and become entangled. Every time I have to spend time to fix
it – and really drive me crazy.
I use polyester yacht braid.
Thanks in advance
Mada

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On Jun 16, 4:29 am, wrote:
....
Every time when I put the dinghy down and again back the line is
twisted and become entangled. ...

Hmmm. I don't know, but have you tried coiling your line into your
other hand? I suspect you're twisting the line as you coil it. You
could test this by throwing the tails out on the deck and running your
hands down them to take out the twists and then using the davits. If
you're problem gets much better or goes away then the coiling is your
problem. If not, beats me...

--Tom.

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On Jun 16, 11:55 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
It's hardly a trivial question. Getting the twist out of lines so that they
don't do this when a load is put on is hard. The snags can hurt you or your
boat if they occur somewhere more critical. Suppose the dinghy was your
only way to reach someone in the water because other devices had drifted
away from them?

If you just take the line as it came from the store and run it through the
blocks this will probably happen.

First, learn to coil properly. Take the new line and start coiling it up, a
real coil, hanging from one hand and measuring with the other; not winding
around thumb and elbow the way all former girl scouts seem to do. Twist the
rope between thumb and forefinger so that each loop hangs exactly parallel
and easy with the one before it. With new line, you'll find that the twists
build up so you have to stop periodically and whip the uncoiled part around
and around in the other direction to work the twist out. Don't accept any
tendency for the loops to look like they are trying to go into a figure
eight. You may have to go through this process a few times.

For lines as short as davit falls, you might also hoist the line up the mast
with a halyard and work the twist out. I've heard that towing them astern
for a while works wonders but I've never done it.

You'll probably still have some tendency to twist under load even after all
this. It sounds like you have swivel blocks on your davits. There is
really no need for them to swivel in this applications. Replace them with
non swivel blocks or put a siezing of wire or marlin around the block and
shackle so they can't turn.

Another thing that can easily happen with something like dinghy davits is
for the block to get turned over when disconnected. It can be a maddening
mental exercise to figure out which way it should go back if it twists
through the parts. Try hooking the two blocks directly together after
disconnecting the dinghy. This will also help keep them from swinging
around.

--
Roger Long

Don't you have to reverse the twist for every other loop, or you are
creating twists in the line ? I just do a figure 8 loop instead.

Todd

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

wrote
Don't you have to reverse the twist for every other loop, or you are
creating twists in the line ? I just do a figure 8 loop instead.

I think Roger's talking about untwisting the tail of the rope as he coils. A
problem I've seen with the over and under technique (which I think is what
you mean) is that it's really easy to produce a long string of evenly spaced
knots when uncoiling it.

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

Mada,

One other thought.

The falls of my davits become more twisted if I leave a half turn around the
cleat as I lower. I always used to do this as it took some of the weight but
now I take the line all of the way off the cleat before lowering.

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

wrote in message
...
This is a trivial question, but it drives me crazy, and maybe somebody
can help me.
For my dinghy/davit system I have 4 triple blocks – two for each side.
All of them are for 3/8 line. Now here is the problem:
Every time when I put the dinghy down and again back the line is
twisted and become entangled. Every time I have to spend time to fix
it – and really drive me crazy.
I use polyester yacht braid.
Thanks in advance
Mada

I suspect it hs something to do with the way you have reeved (roven?)the
line through the blocks as braidline itself has no tendency to twist under
load.
Two triple blocks on each hoist sounds excessive. However if you use these
you have to fix the end of the rope at the top and reeve the line so that
the fall emerges from the centre sheave of the top block This prevents any
tendency for the pull on the fall to twist the whole assembly and for the
same reason said fall must finally emerge also from the centre sheave of the
bottom block If you do not reeve this system correctly the bottom block will
tend to turn over while you are hauling in the slack after launching the
dinghy and I suspect that this is the root of your problem.

It is more usual for boat hoists to have a triple block at the top and a
double block at the bottom since the fall must always emerge from the top
block. Therefore the double block at the lower end has a becket on it onto
which the other end of the rope is spliced and you must then reeve the rope
so that it emerges finally from the centre sheave on the top block, You do
not need swivels on the blocks for a dinghy hoist and if you have swivels
that may also be part of your problem

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On Jun 16, 1:39 pm, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:
wrote

Don't you have to reverse the twist for every other loop, or you are
creating twists in the line ? I just do a figure 8 loop instead.

I think Roger's talking about untwisting the tail of the rope as he coils. A
problem I've seen with the over and under technique (which I think is what
you mean) is that it's really easy to produce a long string of evenly spaced
knots when uncoiling it.

I think you are right there (which is why I like the figure 8 coil),
but the very act of:

"Twist the
rope between thumb and forefinger so that each loop hangs exactly
parallel
and easy with the one before it. "

Creates a half twist in the rope for each coil. If you make alternate
twists in opposite directions (see http://www.animatedknots.com/coiling/
) then there is no twist built up in the rope while you coil it.

Todd

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

Call me old fashioned but I like the look of a regular coil. I've never
tried the figure 8 method or even seen it done so I don't know if it work
for a hanging coil.

--
Roger Long

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

Call me old fashioned but I like the look of a regular coil. I've never
tried the figure 8 method or even seen it done so I don't know if it work
for a hanging coil.

--
Roger Long

You're old fashioned :-)

Looks aside it works very well and hangs just like a regular coil.
And it does have a better chance of running free after being dropped
off the cleat than the round coil.

I climbed rocks before I sailed much, but learned the figure 8 from
sailors.

Todd

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:55:49 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Don't accept any
tendency for the loops to look like they are trying to go into a figure
eight. You may have to go through this process a few times.

Not sure I agree with that advice. Coiling as a "figure 8" totally
eliminates any tendency fo the line to twist or kink. It is one of
those time honored traditions of the sea called "faking" or "flaking"
the line, and is used for those situations where a long run of line
absolutely has to run out quickly and cleanly. Racing sailors
routinely do this with spinnaker halyards on big boats to ensure that
the takedown goes quickly and smoothly.

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

Just curious...are the sheaves of your two blocks (per side) parallel to
each other or perpendicular?

If parallel, this may not be causing the problem you are asking about, but
it will load the blocks unevenly and can cause other problems.

And as Roger said, better to have non swiveling blocks here.

For long lines, I either figure 8, or coil with a reverse loop. Anything to
keep the twist out.

wrote in message
...
This is a trivial question, but it drives me crazy, and maybe somebody
can help me.
For my dinghy/davit system I have 4 triple blocks – two for each side.
All of them are for 3/8 line. Now here is the problem:
Every time when I put the dinghy down and again back the line is
twisted and become entangled. Every time I have to spend time to fix
it – and really drive me crazy.
I use polyester yacht braid.
Thanks in advance
Mada

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On Jun 16, 6:29*am, wrote:
This is a trivial question, but it drives me crazy, and maybe somebody
can help me.
For my dinghy/davit system I have 4 triple blocks – two for each side.
All of them are for 3/8 line. Now here is the problem:
Every time when I put the dinghy down and again back the line is
twisted and become entangled. Every time I have to spend time to fix
it – and really drive me crazy.
I use polyester yacht braid.
Thanks in advance
Mada

Gyn dobry Polski:

To reave a 4 sheve purchase use (two dozen & a bakers dozen)
That is, reave shives 2-4-1-3 in that order.

dobra notes
ZZzzzzzz Bob

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

On 2008-06-16 11:55:49 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

Don't accept any tendency for the loops to look like they are trying to
go into a figure eight.

Here, we may be approaching "religion"....

I coil my lines with an intentional figure-8, wrap a few wraps, then
take a loop through the top of coil so I can hang it up or throw it
into a locker. Done that way, I (usually) can grab an old 50' halyard
out of the locker and toss it 40' to warp someone into a raft-up. Do
nearly the same when neatening the halyard, except I coil the line
doubled. When I need to drop the sail, I need only toss it down the
deck to uncoil.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

I want to thank to all of you for help and a lot of info.
This weekend I will try all Os 8s left or right hand, evrything what
you sugested.
I will let you know what is going to be conlusion.
It is true that my line is very new - right from store, it is also
true that I have swivels, I use O type coils, but is also true that my
line is with color marks and I pay attention to release the line with
all marks on the top continously.
Once again thanks a lot.

Mada

Trivial question about entagled lines.
 

In article , wrote:

If you make alternate
twists in opposite directions (see http://www.animatedknots.com/coiling/
) then there is no twist built up in the rope while you coil it.

[boggle] That's going to take some practice. I can just see me trying
that and making a complete mess... makes sense though.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.