|
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Have you guys been to:
http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/ Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays? Take a look....(c; My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected, very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google, Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE, Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port, lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West, again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map! I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.) Interested??.....(c; http://www.nseries.com/n800 the tablet.... http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ all the freeware for it. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/ the open source freeware mapper program (installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.) http://www.youtube.com/results? search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine environment.... Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this fantastic little Linux program..... ------------------------------------------------------------------ So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories. Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected) showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going the other way..... Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not 45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches.... This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c; Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's. Still interested?? You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c; After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's 5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly.... iPhone my ass......... |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Larry,
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss of life. Steve "Larry" wrote in message ... Have you guys been to: http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/ Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays? Take a look....(c; My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected, very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google, Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE, Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port, lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West, again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map! I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.) Interested??.....(c; http://www.nseries.com/n800 the tablet.... http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ all the freeware for it. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/ the open source freeware mapper program (installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.) http://www.youtube.com/results? search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine environment.... Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this fantastic little Linux program..... ------------------------------------------------------------------ So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories. Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected) showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going the other way..... Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not 45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches.... This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c; Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's. Still interested?? You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c; After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's 5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly.... iPhone my ass......... |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Larry, You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss of life. Steve "Larry" wrote in message ... Have you guys been to: http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/ Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays? Take a look....(c; My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected, very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google, Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE, Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port, lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West, again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map! I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.) Interested??.....(c; http://www.nseries.com/n800 the tablet.... http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ all the freeware for it. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/ the open source freeware mapper program (installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.) http://www.youtube.com/results? search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine environment.... Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this fantastic little Linux program..... ------------------------------------------------------------------ So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories. Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected) showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going the other way..... Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not 45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches.... This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c; Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's. Still interested?? You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c; After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's 5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly.... iPhone my ass......... I think he means NOAA charts of the US coastline. Not much use to us Brits! If it's taken the Linux guys 12 years or more to catch up with the likes of Oziexplorer, think of the startup problems likely to be inherent in the software. Dennis. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of
me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
: Larry, You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss of life. Steve The charts are REAL NOAA CERTIFIED CHARTS, just like you pay out the ass for old ones at Waste Marine......SAME CHARTS ONLY UP-TO-DATE! Is that loud enough to get through to you? The NOAA Charts on Ocean Google are those new charts! You can access them from any browser over an aircard on your laptop NOW if you have internet cellular service. These are only good in the USA, not Germany. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Roger Long" wrote in
: Very, very cool. I'm a bit skeptical though about using it for actual navigation. It's running and updating so slowly on my Time Warner broadband cable connection that I could easily get from the middle of Portland Harbor to the rocks in the time it's taken to do a zoom. -- Roger Long You have something bad wrong, Roger. The webpage updates fully from scratch here in about 5 seconds, plenty of time to avoid the rocks. The aeronautical charts update over my EVDO cellphone circuit in about 2 seconds in Maemo Mapper without all the webpage code. They aren't near as complex as the satellite photo tiles which are much, much finer in detail than charts are. |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
By the way, Roger and every other Time Warner customer on this newsgroup,
Time Warner will stop providing usenet service very soon. Bye Bye.....I'm very sorry you're being screwed this way. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/T...Stop-Offering- Newsgroup-Access-95030 I guess you'll have to use Google Groups or buy usenet service if you download binaries from www.usenetserver.com It's all about preventing users from actually using bandwidth they paid for. I predict all "broadband internet" service in 5 years will be just exactly what "broadband internet" on a Sellphone has become....webpages loaded with spam and email ONLY. It will mean the end of the internet's open system in the name of increased profits for less and less service. Only Alltel allows unlimited internet over sellphones, now. They're being bought by the PHONE HOBBLING KING, Verizon Wireless, very soon. Verizon tried to limit it to web pages and email ONLY, but churning happened so now they limit their sellphone internet to 5GB/month and charge like hell if you go over. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Roger Long" wrote in
: Well, I have my suspicions. My ISP announced new "Turbo" service a few months ago. For ten bucks a month you get faster service. Right about the time of that announcement, I noticed that the speed of everything slowed way down. I wonder what you get for ten buck more a month:) -- Roger Long Don't miss my post about TW eliminating usenet service. You may need another internet service, soon. All the CTIA companies are involved in try to throttle everything except the webpages the spammers want you to see. Comcrap throttles Bit Torrent and the other file sharing systems. TW wants to stop usenet downloading. "Broadband Internet" on Sellphones means web pages and email ONLY, these days. Streaming video/audio, downloading from anyplace, uploading to anyplace, any service that uses real bandwidth over time, must all be eliminated...or sold to the customer for big bucks. Net neutrality is a dead issue. The internet will soon become just like TV....another advertising billboard in your living room. I dumped the TV billboard in 1992. I've been downloading music and movies 24/7 for years. When, not if, they stop it, I'll have my collection to watch for the rest of my life, and simply disconnect the new billboard system once called "internet". RIAA/MPAA couldn't stop it in court....so this is the new tactic, stop the sharing of everything. I hope it leads to massive disconnections. If Knology, my provider, didn't provide usenet, I'd have no reason to pay them $60/mo for access. I'd dump 'em on day one. |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
On Jun 5, 11:43*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Larry" wrote By the way, Roger and every other Time Warner customer on this newsgroup, Time Warner will stop providing usenet service very soon. Bye Bye.....I'm very sorry you're being screwed this way. Well, soyunara. *It's been nice knowing you all (well, most of you). *I'll miss the chat here but not enough to pay for it. I hope to be spending a lot more time on the boat soon anyway and don't ever plan to have Internet afloat. *The simple life is one of the reasons I cruise. Hard to get too upset over Usenet when we are being screwed on food, fuel, war, and our children's future. -- Roger Long You can use Google Groups for free. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...pics?hl=en&lnk Fred |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Larry,
This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to connect a Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal Explorer software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on the Nokia? Also, what kind of Bluetooth transmitter would I need fro the laptop to communicate with the Nokia? Thanks in advance Claus "Larry" wrote in message ... Have you guys been to: http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/ Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays? Take a look....(c; My little Nokia N800 Linux internet tablet has an open source freeware app the Linux hacker geniuses wrote called Maemo Mapper that uses these tiles and a little Bluetooth GPS receiver (12 channel, WAAS-corrected, very sensitive, size of a matchbox) to put a fix, track your progress, do waypoints and plan routes on a wide variety of map tile repositories it downloads and stores from open internet repositories such as Google, Virtual Earth, open source map repositories, NOAA weather radar LIVE, Terraserver, Runway Finder (latest aviation charts!)....etc., etc., more every week. On the road, it connects to Points of Interest databases so detailed it even has the self-serve laundromat up the street, complete with their phone numbers you can use while ashore in some strange port, lost as usual trying to find that maritime museum in Tahiti. You'll carry the tablet while ashore walking around with the little GPS in your watch pocket of your jeans. That way you won't get lost in Key West, again, next time and can find that special bar right on the map! I'm in contact with the guys who wrote Maemo Mapper (open source freeware) for the Maemo Linux tablets, and am trying to get them to do what's necessary to get Marine Charts, with your boat's position tracking on top of them.....no, no...not those OLD, OBSOLETE charts from 1989 on the damned expensive chart plugs....straight off the internet with the latest charts available for FREE! So, there you are cruising the ICW or your favorite Chesapeake Bay, tracking your course on top of the latest marine chart...or...Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo...or...any of many land mapping sources...with the LATEST weather radar picture directly from the NOAA doppler radar available by clicking the WX icon over any picture/chart/map...all in relation to your course being plotted by a $230 Linux internet tablet connected through your Bluetooth cellular phone's internet service to shore.....if it can connect, of course. If not, it'll use the STORED maps/charts/tile photos from your two 16GB SDHC memory cards ($59 ea at buy.com when I got mine.) Interested??.....(c; http://www.nseries.com/n800 the tablet.... http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ all the freeware for it. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-mapper/ the open source freeware mapper program (installs on the tablet by coming to this page and clicking that green arrow's .install program. Linux is easier than WinXP.) http://www.youtube.com/results? search_query=maemo+mapper&search_type=&aq=f some older videos on using Maemo Mapper not related to a marine environment.... Search Google for maemo mapper to get lots more info on this fantastic little Linux program..... ------------------------------------------------------------------ So, there I hope you'll be, crusing down the ICW plotted within a couple of ft by the little GPS up under the bimini in a ziplock bag. Wherever you are on the boat, not just tethered to wires at the helm, you can look at your tablet and see where you are on the chart. Wondering what the terrain looks like up ahead, you click up the menu button to the left of the screen, click MAPS and pick VE Hybrid from the list of repositories. Maemo mapper switches itself from the NOAA chart to Virtual Earth's latest satellite photo with all the local streets and roads around you nicely plotted and labeled...EXACTLY where the chart just was with your little blue icon in the center. You look up around the bend from a real picture and see some docks to look out for sticking out from shore and the fork in the ICW not far beyond you need to take the left channel on according to the chart you just left. You press the WX clicker and NOAA weather radar's NEXRAD displays on the satphoto (or chart as selected) showing you a nasty thunderstorm about 12 miles ahead you've heard banging away in the distance but can't see where it is for the trees and terrain, here. Now you know the storm's exact location on the chart and can keep an eye on it to see if it is approaching your course of going the other way..... Lying comfortably in your aft cabin with the tablet on your pillow, you decide you can snooze a little longer before being needed on deck. You put the tablet in LOCK mode, shutting down the display, but the programs keep tracking your movements and that weather cell for instant retrieval without having to boot up. In standby with the display off, you don't need to charge it for days....It runs for 6 hours at full brightness, not 45 minutes like the damned laptop battery hog at the chart table. It charges in an hour, ready for a few more watches.... This is what I'm trying to get the Mapper hackers to do for you...(c; Not $1500, Not $2400, Not $699.......$230 for the tablet, $0 for the software and data off your cellphone, $100 for the tiny GPS box that recharges in an hour and runs for 22 on its little cellphone battery that's also user changeable as easy as your cellphone's. Still interested?? You'll switch Maemo Mapper to the runwayfinders.com aviation charts next week when you fly down to Miami....exactly like this, too....(c; After you've docked, you'll connect the tablet to the marina's wifi (it's 5 times as sensitive as the most expensive laptop we can find) so you can click up Streamtuner and pick one of its 15,000 radio stations across the planet streaming on the internet....or watch any number of internet videos from youtube on MyTube those hackers wrote for it free....or use mplayer to play one of the DivX movies you loaded on its external card off alt.binaries.movies.divx newsgroup. Who needs XM?? How silly.... iPhone my ass......... |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... "Larry" wrote Have you guys been to: http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/ Where Google Maps and satellite views get the marine chart overlays? Very, very cool. I'm a bit skeptical though about using it for actual navigation. It's running and updating so slowly on my Time Warner broadband cable connection that I could easily get from the middle of Portland Harbor to the rocks in the time it's taken to do a zoom. -- Roger Long I suppose if you have a poor connection, it would be an issue, but relying on it without a non-electronic backup would be foolish. If you have a decent connection, using it is one thing; relying on it is another. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote I suppose if you have a poor connection, it would be an issue, but relying on it without a non-electronic backup would be foolish. If you have a decent connection, using it is one thing; relying on it is another. There are issues other than relying on a navigational aid. Even if you have paper backup (which I 100% endorse) the distraction factor of having the electronics go down and switching over could get you in trouble in a tight situation. I've never seen my GPS even blink so dont' worry about it too much. Once you add all the links in the chain and potential failure points of a wireless and complex system, the probability of have a failure skyrocket. My little handheld GPSmap76cx is about as complex as I'm inclined to get with my electronic navigation. If I had a powerboat and a nice, big, dry place to put the stuff, I probably would feel differently. But then I wouldn't be able to afford it at today's fuel prices:) -- Roger Long Yep... diesel is over $5/g now here... I think I still have enough to last the season. Everytime my onboard GPS stops working, I tell the person standing near the antenna to move. :) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:32:48 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
wrote: You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet. Bill, There is no call for this type of response that has been the hallmark of Wilbur and his alias's on this group. If you disagree with Larry there is no need to post such a response. I have found Larry to be a very useful and informed poster. regards Peter |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Free news servers aren't worth a crap! -- Harry Harris ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Free newsservers are worthless . . . -- Eric Starnes |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Don't bother with free news servers. They're worthless! -- Shad O'Shay |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Harry Harris" wrote in message ... "Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Free news servers aren't worth a crap! -- Harry Harris ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** You got that right, Harry! -- Gregory Hall |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Eric Starnes" wrote in message ... "Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Free newsservers are worthless . . . -- Eric Starnes Then why are you using one? Wilbur Hubbard |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
"Shad O'Shay" wrote in message ... "Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:40:08 -0400, said: Nope. I'm sure this isn't the only one out there, but it's one I've been using as my "backup" for a long time, and it has always worked when needed Ah, that accounts for those occasional BB posts. Don't bother with free news servers. They're worthless! -- Shad O'Shay Isn't aioe a free newsserver, Shad? Harry Harris ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"claus" wrote in
: This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to connect a Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal Explorer software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on the Nokia? Also, what kind of Bluetooth transmitter would I need fro the laptop to communicate with the Nokia? I was going to put this paragraph last as I'm typing it last, but that wouldn't be fair after all this instruction to mention a glaring deficiency in Windows on that laptop before we start....... Windows is ONLY capable of running ONE USER AT A TIME. This means that the laptop's keyboard/display user MUST be LOGGED OFF prior to the tablet logging on as the remote user. It's not my fault, bitch at Bill Gates. The helmsman cannot watch the laptop display of the chart plotter while you're watching it from the tablet via remote desktop. Sorry.... However, if this isn't a problem remote desktop is done like this....: (this was my first paragraph in answer to your query)... No problem whatsoever using very inexpensive equipment. Forget using bluetooth as the laptop probably doesn't have it. It's MUCH easier to simply plug in a wifi router to 12VDC from the house batteries creating your own Local Area Network (LAN) aboard the boat. The laptop is setup for it. The N800 is, too. The LAN will have a range far outside the boat bluetooth cannot match. Now, how to do it is also quite easy. The Windows laptop needs to be configured to allow for a password-secured user. Just add a new user and password protect that user. Remote Desktop requires you have a password protected user for obvious reasons. Bring up Control Panel and click USER ACCOUNTS. Pick to install a new user account and fill in the blanks for the new user. PASSWORD protect this user for the N800 to logon to. Then, you click up Control Panel and select SYSTEM. When that panel opens, select REMOTE. When the REMOTE tab opens, put a check in the box to Allow users to connect to this computer remotely (the bottom square, not Remote Assistance) Write down the name of your computer that is displayed right under the checkbox. You'll need it later. OK your way out of the SYSTEM panel to activate Remote Desktop and you're ready for remote users to use this computer through that new passworded user. Now, we need to use the laptop's web browser to logon to the new router's control webpage. I don't like to leave wifi open for this task, so plug an Ethernet cable from the laptop to one of the router's LAN ports and let Plug 'n Pray log the laptop onto the router. If the router is going to be where the laptop is located, I would LEAVE the laptop hard wired to the LAN port of the router, permanently, to make the wifi to the tablet even faster by reducing the radio system loading. Ok, the router is running, the laptop is running and connected to the router over Ethernet. I like Netgear routers so I'll set my example for the netgear line of routers. Enter: http://192.168.1.1/ into the browser's URL box. This opens the router's internal webpages once you logon with username admin and password netgear (it's in the manual how to do this if you need more help) The router's configuration wizard will take over and ask you specific questions to initially setup the router. Do what it wants, logout normally, then log back into the router with the username/password again. If given the chance to change the password under the wizard DO IT! Everyone knows the default username/password for Netgear routers. Re- name the password and WRITE IT DOWN SO YOU DON'T FORGET OR LOSE IT! Write it right on the router's plastic box with a felt tip permanent marker is a great place! No password, no router access....not good. Ok, ignore the firmware upgrade of this new router. You'll never need it unless it crashes. It won't. Under ADVANCED click WIRELESS SETTINGS.... Ensure ENABLE WIRELESS RADIO, ENABLE SSID BROADCAST and ENABLE RANGE XTENDER all have checkmarks. If not check them. DO NOT LEAVE ANY PAGE YOU CHANGE ON THE ROUTER PAGES WITHOUT CLICKING THE APPLY BUTTON TO WRITE THE DATA TO THE ROUTER'S EEPROM MEMORY.....or it won't happen. Click APPLY Pick PORT FORWARDING and PORT TRIGGERING from the menu to open it. Because you were a good boy and DIDN'T logon any other computer to this new router, we'll assume its IP address to be 192.168.1.2 on a Netgear router. Linksys uses whole different IPs that begin with 192.168.100.xxx Click ADD CUSTOM SERVICE We're now going to tell the ROUTER to ROUTE all calls to port 3389 to 192.168.1.2, the laptop....3389 is the Remote Desktop calling port. Service Name - rdesktop Starting port - 3389 Ending port - 3389 server IP address - 192.168.1.2 under SERVICE TYPE pick TCP from the picklist. CLICK APPLY!! You should now see the new custom port forwarding on the port forwarding list. It's ready to go if you do....(c; Click LOGOUT and the router will log you off its control panels. There, now the laptop is all ready for your Remote Desktop from ANY computer that has the username and password....even in Pakistan if it's on the internet...(c; Now we need to configure the N800 Tablet to use rdesktop to access it.... (c; Almost all the fantastic software the Linux geniuses have written for the Nokia internet tablets is in one place.... http://maemo.org/ a website established by Nokia to give the Maemo Linux community a permanent home sponsored by the hardware company billionaires. If you have a new N800, it comes with the original OS2007 Linux, which is now obsolete. We're doing a complete reinstallation to upgrade N800's to OS2008, also called Chinook for some reason, and it's the new OS for the N810 with the keyboards. It's a FAR more advanced OS and every N800 needs this upgrade....which is butt EASY to do.... First we'll need to install the automatic N800 upgrade software on the Windows XP/Vista PC....i.e. your laptop. Go to: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 Read the page. What we're gonna do is to connect the N800 over the provided USB cable to the laptop and completely burn a new OS into the tablet's memory. MAKE SURE THE BATTERY IS FULLY CHARGED FIRST! The power supply MUST be UNPLUGGED to upgrade the tablet! Download and install on the laptop the Nokia Internet Tablet Software Update Wizard, a WINDOWS program for the laptop. Do not connect the tablet until told to do so. Follow the instructions, they're very complete, EXCEPT DO NOT DO A BACKUP AND RESTORE as instructed because the OS2007 softwares are incompatible with OS2008. Ignore that instruction, we're starting from scratch! Boot the software updater on the laptop.... It won't find the tablet because it isn't connected, yet. Once it says there's no tablet, plug the tablet's USB port into the laptop's USB port with the cable that comes with the tablet. Press and HOLD the little HOUSE button, the lower button to the left of the screen. While holding it pressed, click up the power button on top and the tablet will go into USB mode, showing a NOKIA sign with a USB logo in the upper right corner of the tablet. The updater will have, by now, told you it found an N800 and you follow the onscreen instructions to do the update. When a list of updates comes on the screen, you pick the latest OS2008 (Chinook) with a version number ending in 51-3 I think it is currently. the highest version number....newest. This takes a while as it has to erase EEPROM and burn in new code. Do not interrupt it unless there's a nuclear event, in which case it won't matter. Let the wizard install the new OS. It will tell you when it's done. If it fails, no problem, just do it over again....I've yet to have it fail. The tablet will boot up just like it came out of the box asking you for information, again because it is now in new condition. Enjoy the pretty blue bubbles very appropriate to a boat environment...(c; The interface looks much nicer on OS2008. It works the same way. OK, we got OS2008 installed, up and running on the tablet!....congratulations! Now we'll need one piece of hacker software from: http://maemo.org from the tablet's new Mozilla (Firefox based) browser, a great improvement over the Opera browser that was on OS2007, by the way. Boot up the browser by clicking with the stylus on the world symbol in the upper left corner of the display. Maemo's home page is preprogrammed into the bookmarks for you. By the way, the browser's homepage is nicely preset to Google, but in memory with all the important Maemo pages, too, as click buttons for fast access. Go to the Maemo home page..... The webpages KNOW what OS you're using so automatically take you to the appropriate software list when you click DOWNLOAD....OS2008. When you get to the software download page...add it to the browser's bookmarks so you can get their fast. You'll be there a lot...a complete tablet addict in no time at all. I bought the thing for Skype use....it only took 2 days for my tablet addiction to be complete. This is one GREAT device. The software for the tablet, now over 200 products, is, UNfortunately, arranged in Categories. It's terribly hard to find something called rdesktop in there and the search engine searches NEWS, not software. But, alas, Google is GREAT. Now that you know where the software is stored for OS2008, ignore it for a moment. In your Google search box on the toolbar or Google's webpage, enter: rdesktop maemo and let GOOGLE find the download page for you: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/rdesktop/ it will save you hours of searching, I assure you....(sigh) Go to this rdesktop webpage WITH THE TABLET'S BROWSER NOT THE LAPTOP'S and I'll show you how easy it is to install ANY of the softwares into this little Linux box..... Ok, have a look around the rdesktop webpage. Isn't that nice? No mention of money, donations, open source. You'll get used to it...(c; See the big green DOWNARROW?....hmm, says INSTALL. No, it can't be! Click the green arrow and fasten your seatbelt. The tablet reacts immediately to the .install extension of the green arrows. A box pops up wanting to know what you want to do with this tiny .install text file. Click the OPEN button and the tablet opens its APPLICATIONS MANAGER app, automatically. Wait...wait....hold it....hold it....App Manager came up and just sat there...wait a few seconds....THERE! Now it's either going to ask you if it's ok for it to install a new "catalog" to the app manager or warns you this software isn't from Nokia and Nokia isn't responsible if you install it because they had nothing to do with it! Either way, click OK and check the seat belt. The application manager will renew its application catalogs off the net. Eventually, this will become a much longer process as you become more addicted and just HAVE to have more "STUFF". Catalogs are not all stored at maemo because some of the Linux geniuses writing this stuff are their own companies! It's quite safe....this is Linux! You'll, finally, after being warned, be asked if you want to install rdesktop. You do....click the final OK and App manager will install rdesktop in the EXTRAS folder of the program selector icon in the middle of the left panel. After it installs, open the selector, click EXTRAS to see all the extra software clogging up the box and pick rdesktop from the EXTRAS list. Rdesktop finally boots up....to a bunch of blank boxes you have to fill in. Hey! It's not clairvoyant! Now we need to tell rdesktop where the Remote Desktop computer is we want to take over!..... RDP Server is the laptop at IP 192.168.1.2 on a Netgear router.... Username is the username of that password-secured new user you made on the laptop. Password is the password you forgot to write down for this new user on the laptop. Let's write it down so we don't have to fight it later... Domain is MSHOME on all Windows boxes unless someone changed it. If they did, you have to open SYSTEM back up and find it under Control Panel on the laptop. Disk sharing....click MEM CARDS and MY DOCS....the tablet will now send and receive files from its memory cards and MyDocs folder to/from the laptop. Now we have a little problem......KEYBOARD! rdesktop completely takes over your tablet away from its usual Maemo interfaces, like the onscreen keyboard. It's a LINUX program and expects you to have a desktop computer with a keyboard to type on. On the N810 tablet, there IS a little keyboard that slides out. On the cheaper N800, there isn't. The solution is to buy a Nokia folding Bluetooth keyboard for the tablet. Folded out, it's a first class, properly spaced, typist keyboard, but with only 3 rows and a function key to get numbers and punctuation that's not hard to adapt to. It's about $100 extra and worth the money if you must type into the tablet, with or without rdesktop. Because I don't think YOU need a keyboard to talk to this chartplotting software, I'll just make a note of it here. If you get the BT keyboard, check the box BT Keyboard on rdesktop's connection details. Check "Save these settings" so we never have to type them all in again next time we boot rdesktop. From now on, we'll boot rdesktop, click OK, the screen goes BLACK raising your adrenaline level, then WINDOWS APPEARS exactly like it shows up on the laptop! HOW COOL! WE'RE IN! The stylus will do anything the mouse does on the rdesktop Windows desktop. Double click needs to be set a little slower due to the communications link between them being a little slower than a directly connected mouse. You can now do anything you could do from the laptop's keyboard/screen EXCEPT PLAY VIDEOS AND SOUNDS. If you click up an MP3 file from the tablet....Windows PLAYS IT ON THE LAPTOP like remote control...driving my parrots just crazy because I do it when I'm not home....(c; Double click the chartplotter desktop icon and the plotter will boot and run, normally, complete with chart/graphics all controlled from the tablet....on the tablet's touchscreen. If you need a keyboard for something....buy.com has them. http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-su-8w-wireless-keyboard- qwerty/q/loc/101/204709076.html they also have about the cheapest prices on the N800 and N810. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the setup, Larry.
Unfortunately, Bill Gates ONE USER limitation kills it as you surmised in your opening para. In my case, the laptop at the Nav station has to run the Coastal Explorer software because it also transmits waypoint info to the Raymarine autopilot. What I was hoping for was simply to watch the same screen on the Nokia tablet at the helm... is there any way to just use the Nokia as a second display screen - "feeding" it from the VGA output on the laptop? The helmsman cannot watch the laptop display of the chart plotter while you're watching it from the tablet via remote desktop. Sorry.... However, if this isn't a problem remote desktop is done like this....: |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"Herodotus" wrote in message ... On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:32:48 -0400, "Bill Kearney" wrote: You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Larry and stupidity? Goes hand in hand, especially when he's flogging his masturbatory dream; that Nokia tablet. There is no call for this type of response that has been the hallmark of Wilbur and his alias's on this group. If you disagree with Larry there is no need to post such a response. To each his own. I have found Larry to be a very useful and informed poster. Sadly while that may have been true in the past it's not any longer. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
This is a bit off topic - but I am wondering if it is possible to connect
a Nokia N800 to my laptop at the Nav Station, running Coastal Explorer software - and display the same screen (Coastal Explorer) on the Nokia? If you run VNC on the PC you can use any number of VNC client programs to talk to it. Works great for nearly everything but video and very high color display. Given the widespread availability of VNC I'd have to guess there is a client for the Nokia. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Larry,
No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. Steve "Larry" wrote in message ... "Steve Lusardi" wrote in : Larry, You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss of life. Steve The charts are REAL NOAA CERTIFIED CHARTS, just like you pay out the ass for old ones at Waste Marine......SAME CHARTS ONLY UP-TO-DATE! Is that loud enough to get through to you? The NOAA Charts on Ocean Google are those new charts! You can access them from any browser over an aircard on your laptop NOW if you have internet cellular service. These are only good in the USA, not Germany. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
"claus" wrote in
: Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the setup, Larry. Unfortunately, Bill Gates ONE USER limitation kills it as you surmised in your opening para. In my case, the laptop at the Nav station has to run the Coastal Explorer software because it also transmits waypoint info to the Raymarine autopilot. What I was hoping for was simply to watch the same screen on the Nokia tablet at the helm... is there any way to just use the Nokia as a second display screen - "feeding" it from the VGA output on the laptop? You can always run a virtual PC to solve this problem. Remember, PC stands for Personal Computer, and the operating system was designed along that path. Virtualization allows you to, in essence, run multiple copies of Windows on a single piece of hardware. Search for "pc virtualization" to see the multiple options that you have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. This is a specious argument, at best. That and vector charts have essentially unlimited resolution (granted, raster charts are being used in the original post). The quality of detail varies based on the source data and the chart provider. Some offer considerable detail. Digital charting systems also afford a greater range of searching, both for route planning and guide information. As in, find me all restaurants within 10 navigable miles, Garmin's doing that sort of thing now on their latest chartplotters. it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. Perhaps not for you. But people who actually use current digital commercial charting solutions appreciate otherwise. I think the half-assed hack using google data is just that, but do not confuse it with what is actually being done with digital navigation tools. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
You can always run a virtual PC to solve this problem.
And you could also use VNC inside each virtual session. Bearing in mind the old saying "robbing Peter to pay Paul", virtual sessions require considerable amounts of CPU power and RAM. This is less of a problem using modern equipment. But a system capable of running virtual sessions effectively is likely to chew up a significant amount of electrical power. For desktop situations this isn't a big deal, but in a boat, running off a 12v system it certainly will be. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Larry, No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a mostly fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10 year GPS is the speed at which it can zoom in/out. OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it can replace a dedicated machine. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Jeff,
I absolutely stand by what I stated. Please do not confuse my comments with the dedicated and certified professional chart systems that are available and in use, but those are not what Larry has spoken about. Those professional systems are very expensive and they are supported with maintenance subscriptions for continuous updates for both software and source data without which, certifications are no longer valid. Please also note that they are NOT ever used without paper chart back up. This is not hypothetical, please recall a couple of years back the USAF DC9 that was transporting a US Senator in Yugoslavia using electronic Jepperson Plates looking for a local airport and flew into a mountainside in poor visibility because the Plate was in error and that system was certified. Even the professional systems are subject to same limitations I mentioned before. Sure, they are fun to play with, but they are unreliable, inadequately tested, often in error and are dangerous if taken as the last word. Use them at your own risk. Steve "jeff" wrote in message ... Steve Lusardi wrote: Larry, No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a mostly fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10 year GPS is the speed at which it can zoom in/out. OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it can replace a dedicated machine. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Jeff, I absolutely stand by what I stated. Please do not confuse my comments with the dedicated and certified professional chart systems that are available and in use, but those are not what Larry has spoken about. Those professional systems are very expensive and they are supported with maintenance subscriptions for continuous updates for both software and source data without which, certifications are no longer valid. In other words they are expensive and only available to large ships and expensive yachts, not the recreational sailors in this group. So you claim that the readers here to not deserve to have chartplotters. Please also note that they are NOT ever used without paper chart back up. On this point I would agree; I don't leave the slip without a paper chart on deck. However, the new chartplotter means the paper is hardly ever used. This is not hypothetical, please recall a couple of years back the USAF DC9 that was transporting a US Senator in Yugoslavia using electronic Jepperson Plates looking for a local airport and flew into a mountainside in poor visibility because the Plate was in error and that system was certified. Even the professional systems are subject to same limitations I mentioned before. Well that sure proves your point! Air navigation in Yugoslavia certainly has a lot in common with Larry's marine navigation in Charleston. And was the problem that the mountain had moved since the last chart was made? Sure, they are fun to play with, but they are unreliable, inadequately tested, often in error and are dangerous if taken as the last word. Use them at your own risk. I'm not debating the merits of the homebrew, low power systems. In fact, I admitted I'm playing with one that I don't expect to replace any other gear. However, the current generation of mid-price chartplotters, $600-$1200, are a great boon to recreational sailors, whether weekend warriors or cruisers even though they don't come close to your standards. One thing I've noticed of the last 10 years is a great reduction in the number of simple groundings - I attribute that to an increase in the use of small chartplotters. Moreover, the number of fatalities and injuries related to groundings are tiny compared to other causes. Its hard to prove that poor navigation, regardless of the cause, is a significant problem at all. Steve "jeff" wrote in message ... Steve Lusardi wrote: Larry, No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a mostly fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10 year GPS is the speed at which it can zoom in/out. OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it can replace a dedicated machine. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:52:15 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote: You make this stuff sound wonderful, but in fact it scares the hell out of me. Navigation using uncertified charts? Since when is this progress? Sounds like stupidity to me. Close your eyes and imagine the court ruling in an accident liability case when you tell the court you were using uncertified charts from the internet after causing massive property damage and or loss of life. Yes but the courts will be more impressed with the zip lock bag marinization technique. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Jeff,
Much of what you say is true. The real cost of the certification of these professional systems is testing and verification, not the technology. So, if you elect to use these chart plotters and you test and verify the accuracy in the waters you sail, then the risk factor of using them is greatly diminished in those waters ONLY. Just keep in mind that YOU are the ultimate certification authority for use. Isn't this the same methodology that Bill Gates uses for his software? Nobody can deny the validity and cost effectiveness of the process, but the end user must be aware of this and unfortuately, most are not. Steve "jeff" wrote in message . .. Steve Lusardi wrote: Jeff, I absolutely stand by what I stated. Please do not confuse my comments with the dedicated and certified professional chart systems that are available and in use, but those are not what Larry has spoken about. Those professional systems are very expensive and they are supported with maintenance subscriptions for continuous updates for both software and source data without which, certifications are no longer valid. In other words they are expensive and only available to large ships and expensive yachts, not the recreational sailors in this group. So you claim that the readers here to not deserve to have chartplotters. Please also note that they are NOT ever used without paper chart back up. On this point I would agree; I don't leave the slip without a paper chart on deck. However, the new chartplotter means the paper is hardly ever used. This is not hypothetical, please recall a couple of years back the USAF DC9 that was transporting a US Senator in Yugoslavia using electronic Jepperson Plates looking for a local airport and flew into a mountainside in poor visibility because the Plate was in error and that system was certified. Even the professional systems are subject to same limitations I mentioned before. Well that sure proves your point! Air navigation in Yugoslavia certainly has a lot in common with Larry's marine navigation in Charleston. And was the problem that the mountain had moved since the last chart was made? Sure, they are fun to play with, but they are unreliable, inadequately tested, often in error and are dangerous if taken as the last word. Use them at your own risk. I'm not debating the merits of the homebrew, low power systems. In fact, I admitted I'm playing with one that I don't expect to replace any other gear. However, the current generation of mid-price chartplotters, $600-$1200, are a great boon to recreational sailors, whether weekend warriors or cruisers even though they don't come close to your standards. One thing I've noticed of the last 10 years is a great reduction in the number of simple groundings - I attribute that to an increase in the use of small chartplotters. Moreover, the number of fatalities and injuries related to groundings are tiny compared to other causes. Its hard to prove that poor navigation, regardless of the cause, is a significant problem at all. Steve "jeff" wrote in message ... Steve Lusardi wrote: Larry, No, the chart source is only one issue in the certification process, it is not getting through to me. The risks are still there and the more elements involved, the greater the risk. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I for one could not rely on any electronic display for critical navigation anywhere. The basic limitations are there as well, like 100+ pixels per linear screen inch at best, as opposed to 2400+ on a lithograph printer. In order to express the detail, it is necessary to drill down and that info may or not be there. When it is, that's all you see, the big picture is lost. If your hobby is computers and networking, enjoy it, but do not rely on this technology, it is not robust, it is not everywhere and it simply is not ready for prime time. So, are you claiming that anyone who uses a chartplotter is a danger to himself and those around him? While I'm still not ready to give up on paper, my new Garmin 545 (5 inch, hi res) was a joy to use during a mostly fogbound Maine cruise last summer. The biggest change over my 10 year GPS is the speed at which it can zoom in/out. OTOH, I've been playing with a low power Linux laptop with a GPS puck running chart software, and while its fun, I've not been convinced it can replace a dedicated machine. |
Google Ocean Charts in the palm of your hand....
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Jeff, Much of what you say is true. The real cost of the certification of these professional systems is testing and verification, not the technology. So, if you elect to use these chart plotters and you test and verify the accuracy in the waters you sail, then the risk factor of using them is greatly diminished in those waters ONLY. Just keep in mind that YOU are the ultimate certification authority for use. Isn't this the same methodology that Bill Gates uses for his software? Nobody can deny the validity and cost effectiveness of the process, but the end user must be aware of this and unfortuately, most are not. Steve Again, I'll say that I'm not a fan of charting software layered on commercial, general purpose systems. Nor do I like using a normal laptop at the helm - far too many issues from stability to screen quality to weather resistance. My primary issue is your claim that the smaller dedicated offerings, such as those from Garmin, are not worth having. But, here's a few things to consider: Gates probably spends orders of magnitude more on quality control than the "certified" systems do; its just that his software is far more complex, and used in a quite different way. And it wouldn't surprise me if the "certified" software is layered on Linux, possibly even the the same version that Larry is using. The high cost of the certified stuff is not due to a large amount of quality control; its due to the custom installations, bullet proof hardware, training, and continuing support. All worthwhile attributes, but they don't mean the actual charting is any better. Also, the chart quality available on the "certified" system is the same as what's available on the "lesser" systems. Of course, many people with chartplotters don't bother to always get the latest upgrades, just as most boaters don't upgrade their paper charts with the periodic "Notice to Mariners." However, its probably easier and cheaper for the generic PC users to do this. In fact, modern PC software is continuously hitting the 'net to find newer charts. I'll leave you with a good example of a "certified" system that failed it's users: http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/mar9701.pdf |
Time Warner drops usenet newsgroups!
On Jun 5, 5:42 am, Larry wrote:
By the way, Roger and every other Time Warner customer on this newsgroup, Time Warner will stop providingusenetservice very soon. .... It's all about preventing users from actually using bandwidth they paid for. ... Apparently it's actually, at least nominally, about blocking child porn in a handful of alt.* groups. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9964895-38.html. This is odd as it is easy to just block alt.*. Lots of news servers do. Apparently they will not block known offshore porn web sites... Okay, maybe Larry is right about this... -- Tom. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:23 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com