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What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
Someone on the dock asked me if they needed a commercial radio operator's
license to operate their boat radio stations, today. I hadn't looked up any changes to the regs in a while so did a little FCC webpage browsing to find him the correct answer. Way too little attention is paid to boat owner's radio licenses, because they think that the FCC doesn't care, now that they don't have a license for their VHF Marine any more. That is just wrong.... Who needs an OPERATOR's license: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html "Ship radio stations if: * the vessel carries more than six passengers for hire; or * the radio operates on medium or high frequencies; or * the ship sails to foreign ports; or * the ship is larger than 300 gross tons and is required to carry a radio station for safety purposes." If you have a Ship Radio License so you can operate outside the USA or inside the USA on HF/SSB/GMDSS....you need one for yourself and every operator aboard. The only people who don't need OPERATOR licenses are people talking on marine VHF INSIDE the borders of the USA. ANYONE talking on HF/SSB, operating any kind of GMDSS (including DSC on VHF), MUST be licensed! "Radio Maintenance and Repair You need a commercial radio operator license to repair and maintain the following: * All ship radio and radar stations. * All coast stations. * All hand carried units used to communicate with ships and coast stations on marine frequencies." You STILL must have a GROL (General Radio Operator's License) to work on ship radios and radar stations, including right down to the VHF walkies. Now, most SSB operators have had the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit (no test, just registration to bring you under the FCC's guns) for many years: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html "They can also operate marine radiotelephone stations aboard pleasure craft (other than those carrying more than six passengers for hire on the Great Lakes or bays or tidewaters or in the open sea) when operator licensing is required. An RP is NOT needed to operate the following: * a voluntarily equipped ship or aircraft station (including a CAP station) which operates only on VHF frequencies and does not make foreign voyages or flights." The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone. .....but, new radios have selective calling DSC, part of GMDSS on Channel 70! This requires a GMDSS OPERATOR's LICENSE, which DOES have a test! http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rg.html Now, this is the Restricted (RG) GMDSS operator's license for VHF ONLY IF YOU NEVER GO MORE THAN 20 MILES OFFSHORE. You must pass elements 1 and 7R of the GROL in front of a volunteer examiner, now available through many ham radio testing facilities as well as maritime schools. This is a REQUIREMENT for ALL GMDSS-equipped vessels. How many DSC-equipped boats have a licensed operator? I'm guessing that number is damned near ZERO at any marina....hmm.... If you go OFFSHORE more than 20 miles, you must get a full GMDSS Radio Operator's License, swapping the much harder 100 question element 7 for the 7R of the Restricted. You also need this more comprehensive license if you operate GMDSS, including DSC, on an HF radio with a Ship License, even inside the good 'ol USA. Restricted Radio Telephone Operator's license does NOT COVER operating GMDSS anything! Even our crusty ol' 1st Phone and CW commercial ticket holders must pass element 7 to operate GMDSS, no matter how many decades they've been keeping those tubes warm in the fishing boats. They already passed element 1....long ago. If they intend to repair and adjust GMDSS stations, they must also pass element 9, the GMDSS Maintainer's test to add to their elements 1 and 3 their GROL is credited with. Newbies will need 1,3,7 and 9 tests. http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/dm.html I'm not sure how this all applies to the millions of illegal Mexicans strewn across America, any more. FCC says: " To qualify, you must: * be a legal resident of (or otherwise eligible for employment in) the United States; and * be able to receive and transmit spoken messages in English; and...." ....but they don't seem to enforce the immigration laws any more with the impending North American Union tearing apart our nation, which may make all this moot because the FCC and USCG may no longer exist in the NAU! All the Mexicans around here seem to be "otherwise eligible for employment in) the United States" by default. They just have to show up out of nowhere..... Well, that's what the FCC website says, straight from the horse's mouth. USCG has nothing to do with what license you need to operate the RADIOS. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote:
.... The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone. .... Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm) has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong? -- Tom. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
In article
, " wrote: On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote: ... The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone. ... Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm) has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong? -- Tom. I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165. The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-printing Telegraph. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
On May 25, 8:47 am, Bruce in alaska wrote:
... I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165. The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-printing Telegraph. ... Interesting. I just looked over the sailmail primer again and it is specific. US citizens need copies of the shore station licenses plus a ship's station license and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit. As I recall it took them some time to get the station licenses. I wonder if they got some kind of waiver... -- Tom. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote: If I just use my DSC VHF like a regular VHF, no problem. If I use the DSC feature beyond 20 miles to call another vessel directly with its MMSI number, I'm breaking the FCC regulation. If I push the red emergency button and make a mayday call beyond 20 miles without the full licence, I'm also breaking the regulation but I would imagine this would be covered by the "anybody can use the radio in an emergency" rule. Apart from legal issues: Using DSC is fine - but the problem are false distress calls that do not get cancelled. So if you use it, get acquainted with GMDSS procedures, and know how to cancel a distress call properly. It is also useful to know how to dispatch a DSC distress call, including selecting a specific reason, and entering the position manually if the connected GPS should fail. eg Sara Hopkinson, VHF afloat (short but sufficient) or Sue Fletcher, Reeds VHF DSC handbook (longer, but easy reading too). HTH Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
"Roger Long" wrote in
: If I just use my DSC VHF like a regular VHF, no problem. Correct. If you don't leave the country, like go to CANADA, you don't need a license at all, even Restricted. If I use the DSC feature beyond 20 miles to call another vessel directly with its MMSI number, I'm breaking the FCC regulation. Nope...wrong. The FCC regulations REQUIRE all GMDSS operators to possess a proper GMDSS Operator's license, either the Restricted GMDSS operator if you stay within 20 miles of shore, or the full GMDSS operator if you go out further or to a foreign country, including CANADA. If you push the DSC button at all, or make any kind of SELCAL on DSC VHF to another boat, without a GMDSS license, you broke the rules! If I push the red emergency button and make a mayday call beyond 20 miles without the full licence, I'm also breaking the regulation but I would imagine this would be covered by the "anybody can use the radio in an emergency" rule. Is this right? As written, in an emergency where life and limb are at risk, anything goes, no lack of licence stops you from anything you can do to save life at sea. But, that's not all these radios are being sold for! Our Icom M-603 fancy VHF with DSC will make calls to other DSC stations. You can store your friends' MMSI numbers and select them from the front panel to alert them and switch them to Channel 16 for a legal voice call. But, as the rules are written, you MUST have a GMDSS operator's license to do so. You must also have a GMDSS operator's license to use DSC to page that containership that's been ignoring your pleas over Channel 13 or 16, too. This isn't an emergency. You just want to ask him where he's headed so you can avoid being CONSUMED in the process. You need a license.... Did I break the FCC regulation by installing my DSC radio and hooking it up to the GPS without a license? ABSOLUTELY! The rules say, quite plainly, that the DSC VHF radio requires you to have a GMDSS MAINTAINER's License (test elements 1,3 and 9) to install GMDSS equipment, test and adjust it. BTW, I have both the restricted and ship's station licenses. The station license gives the station permission to transmit. Your own Restricted permit allows you to key the microphone of a channelized VHF and HF transceiver that possesses a valid ship license, except for domestic VHF operation, and speak into the microphone ONLY.... The GMDSS Maintainer must also pass element 7 or 7R if he/she intends to OPERATE the GMDSS equipment, also. Just because he/she has the technical knowhow to repair it, doesn't mean he/she has the knowhow to operate it in accordance with FCC regulations.......obviously. Also, if the ship has a RADAR, the GMDSS Maintainer will be adding element 8, the Radar Endorsement, before he/she will be repairing or installing the radar equipment.....obviously....(c; Isn't FCC fun?! They've been planning all this since 1934! http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/ |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
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What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
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What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
" wrote in news:41bc805f-b4f5-4038-
: On May 25, 8:47 am, Bruce in alaska wrote: ... I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165. The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct- printing Telegraph. ... Interesting. I just looked over the sailmail primer again and it is specific. US citizens need copies of the shore station licenses plus a ship's station license and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit. As I recall it took them some time to get the station licenses. I wonder if they got some kind of waiver... -- Tom. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr80.165.pdf 80.165 direct printing telegraph (which sounds like 1935) says license is MP. I guess MP is the MR license, now, your "MRO". The telegraph licenses are T-3, T-2, T-1 in the old rules here. The rules show the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit as RP on this list. From that reference point, we can assume every sailor with an RP is in violation of 80.165 if he uses Sailmail IF FCC considers Sailmail and Pactor "Ship Direct Printing Telegraph" from the 1935 terminology of a Teletype machine. (Model 15? I had one of those!) FCC needs to join the 21st Century and rewrite the 1935 parts of these rules....same as amateur radio. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
If you're in international waters, what jurisdiction does the FCC have?
-- Geoff |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
"Roger Long" wrote in
: How is it that the FCC sent my MMSI number and restricted and station permits right back when I notified them via application that I had just purchased a DSC radio? If they are serious about this, wouldn't that have been a good time to send a noticed saying, "Oh, by the way..." T The ship license has nothing, really, to do with the operator's license. FCC expects you to hire an operator for your "SHIP", just like Maersk Emma has. You are a ship owner, you know...(c; If you're not going to be signalling the yacht club shore station on DSC, and only use it for dire emergencies, I don't think they have a leg to stand on requiring you to have a GMDSS Operator's License.... Writing laws and enforcing them are different concepts.....just like everyone driving 75 in the 60 mph zone on the beltway. They can't arrest the whole population, I suppose. Even after you get your GMDSS Maintainer's License with Radar Endorsement....you still can't operate my 2 meter ham radio walkie talkie without a ham license, another complete absurdity that's never been corrected.... Your Grandfather would have been laying on the floor, holding his stomach and laughing his ass off at all this back in 1916...(c; 2ABT 73 DE W4CSC.....wherever you are. Boy, that would set a DX record hard to beat! |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
Geoff Schultz wrote in
: If you're in international waters, what jurisdiction does the FCC have? -- Geoff If you are a US Flagged vessel, FCC has worldwide control of your ship station, its licenses and YOU! If you are a UK Flagged vessel, another group of post office bureaucrats have worldwide control of your boat's transmitters. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
On May 25, 4:51 pm, Larry wrote:
The FCC doesn't give a **** what CG license, if any, you hold. That is NOT an FCC license, which is required to operate FCC-jurisdiction equipment, except for the VHF FM inside the USA, license free. Sorry about the confusion. To be clear I hold both the Marine and Restricted Radio Operator's Permits and have a ship station for the boat. Those are FCC grants. I don't have any GMDSS/DSC endorsements. I take it that means I'm out of compliance if I use a DSC radio -- I don't yet. Still, I take a little comfort in being part of a really big class of people who are not in compliance. As you say, the whole thing is stupid. -- Tom. |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
Larry wrote in
: Geoff Schultz wrote in : If you're in international waters, what jurisdiction does the FCC have? -- Geoff If you are a US Flagged vessel, FCC has worldwide control of your ship station, its licenses and YOU! Thanks for making me laugh at the absurdity of the above statement! But really, what control does the FCC have over a vessel in international waters? Many countries have difficulty inforcing their own laws, let alone the US FCC laws. How many countries do you think have laws even covering this type of transmission? Are you telling me that when I've been using DSC to call another boat anchored at an atol off of Belize, that I should have been worried about a USCG ship pulling up to me and citing me for some FCC regulation that they claim that I've broken? If so, I laugh in your general direction! It seems that no one is enforcing these laws in the US let alone in international waters. To me it appears that this discussion is much ado about nothing. It reminds me of an article that I recently saw talking about jobs that I could legally do in my own house without bringing in a professional and/or pulling a permit. I was really glad to see that I've never done any of them! :-) -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
In article ,
Geoff Schultz wrote: If you're in international waters, what jurisdiction does the FCC have? -- Geoff If your a US Flagged Vessel, they have ALL the jurisdiction. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
In article ,
Larry wrote: The direct printing telegraph was for MORSE, not ASCII, right? Actually No, it was Baudot, and NOT Morse. Sitor was also considered NBDP, under the rules, before GMDSS, and was incorporated into GMDSS by default. I suspect the FCC just lumped all Digital Modes into the GMDSS Label, and forgot to deal with the older NBDP stuff. I guess I should call some friends back at HQ, and ask where all this stands today, but I suspect that they really will not want to go "On the Record" with any answers at this point. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
Geoff Schultz wrote in
: Thanks for making me laugh at the absurdity of the above statement! But really, what control does the FCC have over a vessel in international waters? I know the guy, because he's also a ham operator licensed in St Kitts- Nevis, who operated a pirate radio FM broadcast station from a large old sloop off NY City, many years back. The studio was in NYC and they microwaved the audio out to sea where a big generator drove a big transmitter beamed back into the USA from INTERNATIONAL WATERS they THOUGHT would protect them from the FCC. They thought wrong...... After several attempts to get them to stop, the FCC called in the US Navy, not a force to ignore like FCC bureaucrats and their lawyers. Navy sent out a ship, I forget which one, boarded the boat at gunpoint and ordered all humans off the boat into the Navy ship. As soon as that was accomplished, they motored away a little distance and used the sloop for gunnery practice, eliminating some rock and roll from the FM broadcast band rolling in from sea. Problem solved....Americans arrested, even though they actually lived in St Kitts. He returned to St Kitts after the jail term and ended up in Charleston years later working for Brother RG Stair on his Overcomer Ministries pirate shortwave ship project at Halsey-Cannon Boatyard, across from Deytens Shipyard in the Wando River. I got to see the installation of: http://www.hawkins.pair.com/voanc/voanc07.jpg this transmitter bought from govt surplus after Greenville closed down, pumping 70KW into a T cage antenna between two big towers fore and aft fed at the top of the fishing trawler's main hatch over the transmitter inside the fish hold in the bilge. Two 250KW gensets were welded on deck to provide power with lots of extra diesel tanks. To see what 70KW on 7.315 Mhz HF AM, go to www.qrz.com and put my ham call W4CSC into the ham lookup search box in the upper left corner of the webpage. I've uploaded a picture of me holding a 300,000 volt porcelain insulator that exploded right over my head inside the fish hold at full power after we all glowed blue for 20 minutes just standing in the fish hold with it running one feeder of the open wire feeders left open at the bottom of the insulator (balanced line feeders 600 ohm transmitter). Down the center of that insulator, a threaded rod fed the 70KW of RF power through the metal hatch to the base of the T antenna, the feed point. Before the explosion, we were getting about 38 amps of RF current on the antenna current meter, close to 600 ohms load at 70KW. I'm only holding the bottom half of the whole insulator, the wide end went to a big porcelain flange to clamp it to the big hole cut in the hatch. The top half is actually what exploded first into thousands of pieces of shrapnel spread across the deck. Noone is allowed outside when it's on the air because it could cook them like a microwave oven, so no harm done, except I peed my pants...(c; The FCC showed up a week later with a floating crane commandeered from Deytens Shipyard, a Navy contractor across the Wando. They dismantled the whole ship, taking all the radio equipment with them and leaving Br Stair with the yard bills and no broadcast station to take to Belize. The picture in the local newspaper was hilarious. It showed the stupid FCC engineer holding an old Heathkit DX-35 novice class ham rig for the photo op for the news, which puts out 35 watts on a good day and is no threat to anyone unless they're holding the power cord prongs when you plug it in. I have the picture cut from the paper here, somewhere. My buddy fled to St Kitts and I've lost contact with him. The trawler wasn't going to work, anyways. The heavy RF current flowing through the hull into the sea ground was EATING the hull. The first indication was when seawater entered the fresh water tankage in the bilge from a hole in the hull. Other holes soon opened up in the hull causing minor flooding and constant bilge pump running. They tried to stop it with grounding plates and zincs but RF is another animal entirely to galvanic action. We're talking about 38 AMPS, not 30 microamps of DC. It was fun while it lasted....(c; The souvenir insulator is in some drawer here somewhere....with a huge black streak from REAL LIGHTNING POWER down the side of it...burned right into the porcelain! Government has a LONG arm if provoked.....even to INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Ask any Iraqi or Afghan! |
What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
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What radio operator's license do you have? (US ONLY)
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