On 2008-05-25 11:55:34 -0400, " said:

Assuming the chart on this page
http://www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp is right, B looks ideal for
small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems
significant, too.

The "A"-only items on the chart couldn't be useful on boats our size:
Destination, ETA, rate-of-turn....

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Tom,
I'm not sure what the B has, but the point I am making is the A is approved
the B is not. The A transmits 25 watts the B 5. The A has its own dedicated
GPS. I don't know if the B does as well. Just because the A can xmit those
data items that are related to large vessels, does not mean you have to
include them. I believe it is also possible to xmit at slower time intervals
as well, but I will have to check the manual. I bought a new demo model
Simrad A for $1200 lst year on eBay.
Steve

wrote in message
...
On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
My position is that if
you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is
not
that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and
although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited.

Steve,

If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still,
class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've
looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding
of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http://
www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small
boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems
significant, too.

-- Tom.

On May 25, 12:28 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Tom,
I'm not sure what the B has, but the point I am making is the A is approved
the B is not. The A transmits 25 watts the B 5. The A has its own dedicated
GPS. I don't know if the B does as well. Just because the A can xmit those
data items that are related to large vessels, does not mean you have to
include them. I believe it is also possible to xmit at slower time intervals
as well, but I will have to check the manual. I bought a new demo model
Simrad A for $1200 lst year on eBay.
Steve

Thanks. All good points and that price is in w/in my pain threshold.
For us low power use is a major so 5w every 15 seconds is going to be
better than 25w every 10. A bit more googling has brought up the
possibility that B units might not be received by some older AIS's or
might be filtered out. Also, B seems stalled at the FCC... Which
leaves me thinking of spending say $800 on a receive only system, or
~3.5K list for an A system (plus power issues) or seeking out a deal
on eBay... The mind boggles. But thanks again for the input.

-- Tom.

" wrote in news:d88f5712-bcf7-4aba-
:

What does A do that B doesn't?
http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html
Panbo has an excellent handle on current AIS tendencies to answer your
question.


But, if you're very adventurous, the FCC can addle your brain in minutes:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-07-2597A1.txt

And, of course, you ALREADY have a copy of:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_07.html
as required by your Ship Station License.....right?
.....and you've read it all, carefully, and are in full compliance, as
required by law with heavy penalties.....right?


To see lots of the political wrangling and foot dragging going on,
including the little problem of the FCC bureaucrats ALREADY selling one
of the AIS channels to Maritel Communications they shouldn't have, look
on this list:
http://search2.fcc.gov/search/index.htm?
job=search&site=fcc_all&q=AIS&Submit+search+reques t.x=0
&Submit+search+request.y=0&Submit+search+request=S ubmit

or better yet:
http://tinyurl.com/5noy3x

The political nonsense involved didn't help the Capt Joe's survival,
which was credited, partially, by her AIS transmissions even before the
crew called for a Mayday. Panbo quotes APA.com saying:

"“The fishermen had an ‘automated identification system transponder’
aboard their boat. While that transponder system sunk with the Captain
Joe, the signals it gave out before the vessel went down helped the
rescue crews find the boat's last position.” We don’t normally think of
AIS being used that way, and I don’t know the details, but I can easily
imagine how the rescue center could use some sort of Internet based AIS
tracking system, or maybe their own receivers, to get good position data
before the fishermen even fired off their EPIRB.
For me, this news was ironic on several levels. Just last week I
learned that Class B AIS isn’t even on the FCC’s March 19 agenda, meaning
that this Capt. Joe type rescue aid remains unavailable for most boaters.
(However, I also heard that at least one commissioner has already signed
the ruling—a meeting isn’t even necessary—so maybe this FCC travesty will
actually end soon.) Second, before hearing about Capt. Joe (thanks,
Jim!), I was already into an amazing book called Dead Men Tapping, and
hardly slept last night plowing towards it inevitable conclusion. The
book is not only an excellent profile of New England fishermen and
salvors, but also a wrenching tale of what can happen out there, and
hence why Class B AIS could be such a valuable collision avoidance tool.
(One reason the USCG wants reasonable-cost Class B expedited is so that
it can mandate them on commercial fishing boats.) But the book is also a
stinging indictment of the Coast Guard’s failure to perform well in this
and several other somewhat unusual rescue situations. I’d like to think
they learned something from author Kate Yeomans fine work. But whether
that’s true or not, you’ll likely approach disasters at sea a little
differently once you’ve read Dead Men Tapping."

.....once again showing the multi-bureaucratic bungling between CG and FCC
and other Federal bureaucrats and we STILL don't have an AIS transponder
for your boat, whether the big ships like it or not....

On May 25, 3:23 pm, Larry wrote:
http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html
Panbo has an excellent handle on current AIS tendencies to answer your
question.

[vast swaths of great info clipped]

Larry,

How do you find all this stuff? Picture me genuflecting in your
direction. I'm in awe. And thanks! I've bookmarked the Panbo site.
I had not run across that before. Interesting but saddening in terms
of AIS B.

-- Tom.

" wrote in news:5fd505e1-a5f9-4c8a-
:

Larry,

How do you find all this stuff? Picture me genuflecting in your
direction. I'm in awe. And thanks! I've bookmarked the Panbo site.
I had not run across that before. Interesting but saddening in terms
of AIS B.

-- Tom.



www.google.com

Look no further. If it exists, google will find it.

Keep all queries simple with no extra words like a question.

AIS B FCC approval

something like that. The less unnecessary words, the better. The search
engine also supports searching by strings of letters or phrases. If you
search for:
Icom Marine Radios
you get all websites about marine anything and radio anything by any
manufacturer, ESPECIALLY those websites paying Google big money to SELL
you something. If you enter:
"Icom Marine Radio" or "Icom Marine"
google only returns searches with the string "icom marine" or "Icom
marine" without being so picky about capital letters. I usually string
search all lower case. You can also demand google look for everything
with the + symbol. If you search for:
+Icom +M602 +repair
google will return websites that have all three words, not all the Icom
websites on the planet. There's a tutorial on google to show you how to
do advanced searching to eliminate a lot of the clutter and spam the
search engine is inundated with, daily.

Google is a fascinating place and resource. We used to use
altavista.com, which was a similar massive search engine that's still
alive, I think.

Yahoo works great, too, well.....until Micro$oft gets hold of it....

" wrote in
:

On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
My position is that if
you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear
is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved
everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not
prohibited.

Steve,

If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still,
class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've
looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding
of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http://
www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small
boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems
significant, too.

-- Tom.


http://uscg.mil/nais/description.asp
I just stumbled onto this government monstrosity....as usual.
CG says it should be implemented by 2014 after AIS has been replaced by
the next generation of navagational electronics from some other
simpletons.

The contractors must be very proud. It'll buy them houses and cars and
vacations in exotic places for another decade or two......while mariners
die who could be saved by a SIMPLE AIS shore station setup like:
http://www.shipais.com/index.php
which now covers ALL OF ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES and about half of
IRELAND. The software ALREADY exists, but let's not let that bother our
bureaucrats spending millions to reinvent what's ALREADY UP AND RUNNING!

http://www.shipais.com/currentmap.php?map=folkstone
Wow! Look at the CHANNEL TRAFFIC!

"Larry" wrote in message
...
http://www.shipais.com/currentmap.php?map=folkstone
Wow! Look at the CHANNEL TRAFFIC!

Yes. It is interesting sailing from UK to France, especially at night. You
have to proceed on the assumption that they do not even know you are there.

" wrote in
:

On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
My position is that if
you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear
is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved
everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not
prohibited.

Steve,

If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still,
class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've
looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding
of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http://
www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small
boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems
significant, too.

-- Tom.


The S/V "Dragonfly" is at sea doing 8.3 knots under sail, tonight.
Here's what you MIGHT look like, at some point years and years from now
in the USA:
http://www.shipais.com/showship.php?mmsi=235005213

Oops...got an update. She's up to 9.1 knots, now!

HEY, COAST GUARD! YOU WATCHIN' DIS BO'?!!

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

I think I have mentioned this before, but it is not at all certain
that Class B AIS will ever be approved in the US. Perhaps Larry has a
better insight to this, but that's the rumor I keep hearing. My
position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at
all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class
A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is
not prohibited. Steve


I've been told the commercial shipping interests are trying their best to
keep all the non-compulsory boats off the AIS system, what there is of it
in the technology backwater the USA has become. I think this is why all
the footdragging is going on at the FCC and USCG. They don't WANT to see
your 40' sloop on their AIS displays.

Of course, they'd rather you never left the dock, either....(c;