On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:23:29 -0500, DSK wrote:


And it's important, in a boat like that, to be able to take a severe
tossing, because you'll be in mid-ocean long enough to guarantee that
you'll get one. Except for consistent downwind routes, they have a hard
time making passages. Ask some of the transPac guys how the Westsail 32s
get back from Hawaii... or from Cabo...

Well, yes, that's a major trade-off. Of course, Moitessier solved that
problem in the '60s...just keep going until you arrive back where you
started! Seriously, though, current thought (when one can discern it
among all the floating rec rooms at boat shows) seems to be that
faster is better to avoid the rough stuff in the first place, which
means good upwind performance. The "best world cruisers" is great for
a good BS session online, but even marginal boats in good hands can
sail pretty impressively...and some nice boats in good shape have been
found adrift because of panicky crew or idiot captains ****ing over
the side....



So, you're advocating going back to the horse and buggy?

Not at all, but some of those boats had desirable characteristics
absent from MOST...not all, thank goodness...of the current crop.
That's why there's such a steady trade in old Perry designs and Brewer
semi-customs and so on...they combine best of old and new-ish.

Seriously, I've read all that and also sailed some of those boats. If
you want an escape from modern life, it's great... you always have Motel
6 to fall back on (which those guys did not). I think that some of the
characteristics of these boats are very good at sea... a kindly motion,
for example, a *secure* cabin, inviolable structural integrity (which
actually those boats didn't have, but failures tended to be in small
bits that were easily repairable with on-board parts & tools). They also
broke out the champagne any time they had a 100-mile 24 hr run.

Well, I am of the opinion that sailboats stink as transport
devices...unless you have nothing resembling a schedule, at which
point they are the best way to travel anywhere there's seven feet of
water. If my (to be hoped for) cruising life contains anything more
pressing than "get to typhoon hole in four months" as a Post-It on the
nav station, I will have not achieved my goals in life. So bring on
the North Sea sailing barges G...ok, maybe not THAT bulletproof....


We were looking more for a given range of cubic & displacement, rather
than an LOA range. And what's wrong with complex mechanical aids? A
windlass and a self-tailing winch are both *great* ways to handle
strains than muscle alone will not.... faster and with more control than
a handy-billy.

I don't consider those complex as I could devise the same mech.
advantage with a strong point and a series of blocks and falls. I
consider ELECTRIC winches, certain forms of autopilot, air
conditioning, large refrigeration set-ups and satellite TV receivers
to fall under "complex mechanical aids" in the sense that it's
unnecessary, too big a draw, too likely to break or too expensive to
maintain. A sturdy windvane AND a better sort of autopilot, preferably
cable or rod linkages over hydraulic, would provide the sort of
redundancy I would prefer. Then, self-steering by sail trim and bungee
cords is the "Hail Mary" of self-steering..essential I think to safe
passagemaking.

Neither are prohibitively expensive (especially if they
come with the boat 2nd-hand) and neither take prohibitive mainenance
IMHO. I don't want to accuse you of being a Luddite but it seems you're
leaning that way... certainly simpler is better, the question is to make
a good choice of systems to include and recognizing their true cost.

With that I will agree, but fewer things to break is a simple credo. I
am not a Luddite in many senses, actually, because while I am suspect
of devices listed above, it will be crucial to living aboard for years
that I have complex SSB/weatherfax/email/satellite comm systems,
powered by carefully shepherded battery banks and charged by
wind/sun/towed generators. Unlike many cruisers, I WILL have kids
aboard, and medical, educational and family reasons dictate that I
have a better than usual degree of connectivity. I just hope that by
the time we go, marine electronics will be a little more integrated
and at a lower price than today.

FWIW I'd agree with the split rig... it is a maintenance hit but it
offers redundancy and it keeps the main truck lower for getting under
fixed bridges. On the East Coast there are a lot of places you can't go
if your 'air draft' is more than 55 feet (16.9m).

Exactly. More bits to fall off but more options to keep sailing. Also,
it's a fudge factor for getting a bigger boat...I think in some ways a
40 foot sloop is harder for a couple to handle than a 45 foot ketch,
but both are borderline unless you are quite fit. Better, I think, to
learn to live and sail with the size of boat you can manage, which may
be quite different boats at various life points.

R.