A suggestion
 

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008040520315216807-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-04-05 09:48:23 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok
said:

I suspect, but can't prove that yacht engines are seldom run at maximum
continuous horsepower settings for any length of time while most
commercial engines are.

Talking around the docks, and here, I find that most 'yacht' engines are
also either at idle or 80+% of designed revs.

I'm a bit unusual that I normally power at less than 80% of the engine's
max revs to maximize fuel economy. At 70-75% of max revs, we get 25-30
mpg. 80% has us pushing against hull speed. Full revs push us over hull
speed, and I've only done that twice in 15 seasons.

Most sailors run at high power when they motor. If they turn the motor on,
they're by definition in a hurry.


I've noticed another prevalent reason why they start their inboard motors
even if they don't need them. They say it's to top off the batteries but I
can't help but notice it's more of a security blanket. They feel more secure
and safer if the motor is running even when they're sailing. This is
especially noticeable in rough weather. There's something about that motor
running even in idle that makes them feel better. The binky effect, so to
speak!

Even at anchor, the minute high winds or threatening dark clouds come up
many diesels began to run. They say it's to take the strain off the anchors
but that's bull****. It's to take the strain of their paranoid minds. They
don't trust their own anchoring jobs! This is a sad statement about how
motors actually cause sailors to be sloppy so they rely more on their motors
and then they become sloppier so they rely still more on their motors and
when the motor dies they are lost, totally lost. This is today's sad state
of "sailing."

Wilbur Hubbard

A suggestion
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:31:52 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-05 09:48:23 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

I suspect, but can't prove that yacht engines are seldom run at maximum
continuous horsepower settings for any length of time while most
commercial engines are.

Talking around the docks, and here, I find that most 'yacht' engines
are also either at idle or 80+% of designed revs.

I'm a bit unusual that I normally power at less than 80% of the
engine's max revs to maximize fuel economy. At 70-75% of max revs, we
get 25-30 mpg. 80% has us pushing against hull speed. Full revs push us
over hull speed, and I've only done that twice in 15 seasons.

Most sailors run at high power when they motor. If they turn the motor
on, they're by definition in a hurry.

Your engine is too big, simple as that :-) By the way, how do you
calculate miles per gallon? No tides in the Chesapeake?

Over in the dry (N.E. monsoon) season you motor when there isn't any
wind, which is usually when the land breeze dies about 11:00 every
morning.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

A suggestion
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
Over in the dry (N.E. monsoon) season you motor when there isn't any
wind, which is usually when the land breeze dies about 11:00 every
morning.


Yah, like you really need to motor when tied up to the dock for the past two
years. Nice try, Brucie Boi!

Wilbur Hubbard

A suggestion
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:14:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:31:52 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-05 09:48:23 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

I suspect, but can't prove that yacht engines are seldom run at maximum
continuous horsepower settings for any length of time while most
commercial engines are.

Talking around the docks, and here, I find that most 'yacht' engines
are also either at idle or 80+% of designed revs.

I'm a bit unusual that I normally power at less than 80% of the
engine's max revs to maximize fuel economy. At 70-75% of max revs, we
get 25-30 mpg. 80% has us pushing against hull speed. Full revs push us
over hull speed, and I've only done that twice in 15 seasons.

Most sailors run at high power when they motor. If they turn the motor
on, they're by definition in a hurry.

Your engine is too big, simple as that :-) By the way, how do you
calculate miles per gallon? No tides in the Chesapeake?

Over in the dry (N.E. monsoon) season you motor when there isn't any
wind, which is usually when the land breeze dies about 11:00 every
morning.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


Correction: should have read "over here in the dry...." got in a
rush... Your breakfast is on the table! Yup. YOUR breakfast is on the
table! Yup. YOUR BREAKFAST IS ON THE TABLE..........



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

A suggestion
 

On 2008-04-05 22:14:15 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:31:52 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-05 09:48:23 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

I suspect, but can't prove that yacht engines are seldom run at maximum
continuous horsepower settings for any length of time while most
commercial engines are.

Talking around the docks, and here, I find that most 'yacht' engines
are also either at idle or 80+% of designed revs.

I'm a bit unusual that I normally power at less than 80% of the
engine's max revs to maximize fuel economy. At 70-75% of max revs, we
get 25-30 mpg. 80% has us pushing against hull speed. Full revs push us
over hull speed, and I've only done that twice in 15 seasons.

Most sailors run at high power when they motor. If they turn the motor
on, they're by definition in a hurry.

Your engine is too big, simple as that :-)

No disagreement, but it was an engine new to the market. Its
predecessor would have been just right, but I liked the idea of the
closed-loop fresh-water cooling.

I still prefer it, truth be told.

By the way, how do you calculate miles per gallon? No tides in the Chesapeake?

We have tides, more accurately we have currents that tend towards a
full knot southbound in our area, but I'm dividing average speed
through the water by average fuel burn. Speed over the ground will vary
with the current of course.

Over in the dry (N.E. monsoon) season you motor when there isn't any
wind, which is usually when the land breeze dies about 11:00 every
morning.

Exactly. You're in a hurry. Otherwise, you'd wait for the wind to come back.

;-)

Nothing wrong with that, since that's why we have auxiliaries, but few
sailors power much below hull speed. By dropping the speed a knot or
so, consumption drops dramatically.

If we have the auxiliary on and in gear, we pull nearly 3 knots at
idle. But our most economical speed is about 5 or 5.5 knots. Our
theoretical hull speed is 6.65 knots, though Xan is as comfortable at
7+ knots as 5 under sail.

Come to think about it, she's more comfortable above that speed than
below, but she is a known show-off that delights in breaking the rules.
She considers hull speed a suggestion, not a law.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

A suggestion
 

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:30:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-05 22:14:15 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:31:52 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-05 09:48:23 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

I suspect, but can't prove that yacht engines are seldom run at maximum
continuous horsepower settings for any length of time while most
commercial engines are.

Talking around the docks, and here, I find that most 'yacht' engines
are also either at idle or 80+% of designed revs.

I'm a bit unusual that I normally power at less than 80% of the
engine's max revs to maximize fuel economy. At 70-75% of max revs, we
get 25-30 mpg. 80% has us pushing against hull speed. Full revs push us
over hull speed, and I've only done that twice in 15 seasons.

Most sailors run at high power when they motor. If they turn the motor
on, they're by definition in a hurry.

Your engine is too big, simple as that :-)

No disagreement, but it was an engine new to the market. Its
predecessor would have been just right, but I liked the idea of the
closed-loop fresh-water cooling.

I still prefer it, truth be told.

By the way, how do you calculate miles per gallon? No tides in the Chesapeake?

We have tides, more accurately we have currents that tend towards a
full knot southbound in our area, but I'm dividing average speed
through the water by average fuel burn. Speed over the ground will vary
with the current of course.

That is a legitimate method although a little depressing at times. I
was coming up the Malacca straits (with too small a prop) and
according to the Knot Log was doing 4 knots. According to the GPS, 1
knot. Not only that but my wife kept saying "when are we getting to
....., Why aren't we going faster...." Not one of my better trips.

Not only that but when I took the too small, full feathering, very
expensive, propeller off and had it for sale at a "second hand" boat
stuff shop the shop got raided by customs who declared the entire
stock as smuggled, i.e., not duty paid and my prop got confiscated.

Not a good experience at all.

Over in the dry (N.E. monsoon) season you motor when there isn't any
wind, which is usually when the land breeze dies about 11:00 every
morning.

Exactly. You're in a hurry. Otherwise, you'd wait for the wind to come back.

;-)

The wind will come back tomorrow, about 08:00, for three hours.

Nothing wrong with that, since that's why we have auxiliaries, but few
sailors power much below hull speed. By dropping the speed a knot or
so, consumption drops dramatically.

If we have the auxiliary on and in gear, we pull nearly 3 knots at
idle. But our most economical speed is about 5 or 5.5 knots. Our
theoretical hull speed is 6.65 knots, though Xan is as comfortable at
7+ knots as 5 under sail.

Come to think about it, she's more comfortable above that speed than
below, but she is a known show-off that delights in breaking the rules.
She considers hull speed a suggestion, not a law.

Do you sail with only your wife ( or significant other) or do you
have a mob aboard? I have a 40 ft. sloop and find it a fine boat for
myself and my wife but a bit small for more. Or perhaps I'm a just a
grouchy old man.

The last passenger I had aboard was a friend of a friend that had
helped the friend to bring his boat back to Thailand when the friend
was sick. As a result he didn't have the correct stamps in his
passport and I was asked to take him back to Malaysia. .

I picked the guy up at a remote island and he obviously had been
drinking beer for the better part of the day and hadn't bothered to
bathe in the past few days. As soon as he came aboard I explained that
we slept on the deck as it was too hot down below and even then my
wife birched (in Thai) for the two days we had him aboard. No more
favors for that "friend".

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

A suggestion
 

On 2008-04-06 08:45:15 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

Do you sail with only your wife ( or significant other) or do you
have a mob aboard? I have a 40 ft. sloop and find it a fine boat for
myself and my wife but a bit small for more. Or perhaps I'm a just a
grouchy old man.

We're a bit smaller, but find Xan's about right for the two of us. We
rarely take others onboard because our pleasure dome is intended for us
two. We need and enjoy the time alone.

Being a grouchy old man is disconnected with the size of boat ;-)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/