Good info on the retroactive part. You can't do that for FCC.

FWIW the CFR is he
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...6:1.0.1.3.17.2

or http://tinyurl.com/ypv4ld. A mariner can not certify a light as
USCG approved at any time but a non USCG approved light may be in
compliance with COLREGS.

-- Tom.

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:26:47 GMT, wrote:

Nowhere in that link is there anything that says I can't declare my lights to be
USCG compliant.

§ 25.10-3 Navigation light certification requirements.
top
(a) Except as provided by paragraph (b) of this section, each
navigation light must—

(1) Meet the technical standards of the applicable Navigation Rules;

(2) Be certified by a laboratory listed by the Coast Guard to the
standards of ABYC A-16 (incorporated by reference, see §25.01–3), or
equivalent, although portable battery-powered lights need only meet
the requirements of the standard applicable to them; and

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 06:08:14 -0400, in message

"Roger Long" wrote:

wrote

The USCG doesn't test devices and approve them. They publish standards,
and a
laboratory tests your product and charges you a fee to attest that it
meets the
standards. If you have an unapproved device and it becomes an issue in
court,
you can still retroactively have the device examined and declared
compliant.


Yes, but in the US legal system, the issue is not whether you are right or
wrong but whether you can afford to prove it. When that guy who Teeboned
you on the port side claims it was because he couldn't see your red nav
light, how much do you think it's going to cost to prove it's compliance
with his lawyer obstructing, questioning, and protesting every step of the
process?

One morning last summer, just towards dawn, I was very puzzled by a
green light that seemed to moving in the wrong direction. As it got a
little lighter I could make out the hull and passed fairly close
astern, giving way as a port tack boat should. I was able to read the
name off the transom and radioed to ask why they were showing green on
the port side...

Attention to detail is important ;-)

Ryk

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

I'm thinking the
Aqua Signal stern lights might actually make good spreader lights.

You may want to have a look at these:

http://www.hellamarine.com/
specifically
deck light
http://www.hellamarine.com/?a=3&t=3&...D=690&pcid=170
navigation lights
http://www.hellamarine.com/default.a...tory&newsID=41

HTH

Marc

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On Apr 1, 12:26 am, wrote:
Nowhere in that link is there anything that says I can't declare my lights to be
USCG compliant.

I'm not sure how constructive this is, but I'm trying to make the
distinction between USCG approved (which involves a lab test and a
submission to the CG and is done by OEMs or importers) and COLREGS
legal which means it meets rule 22. It is easy to install a USCG
approved light in a non COLREGS compliant way (I see it all the
time). Too, USCG approval is not a requirement under COLREGS as
such. As I said right from the start of this I don't know what the
implications for any given boater might be for carrying non USCG
approved lights. I suspect the most common problem might be
convincing a surveyor to pass an unstamped light. In any event, since
the OP was looking to change the bulb in his lamp I wanted him to be
aware that doing so will invalidate the USCG approval of the lamp. I
presume he is sailing on an uninspected vessel so it may well be
perfectly legal for him to go with LED bulbs but he might be unhappy
if his surveyor insists that he remove them in order to get
insurance.

--Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 1, 12:26 am, wrote:
Nowhere in that link is there anything that says I can't declare my
lights to be
USCG compliant.

I'm not sure how constructive this is, but I'm trying to make the
distinction between USCG approved (which involves a lab test and a
submission to the CG and is done by OEMs or importers) and COLREGS
legal which means it meets rule 22. It is easy to install a USCG
approved light in a non COLREGS compliant way (I see it all the
time). Too, USCG approval is not a requirement under COLREGS as
such. As I said right from the start of this I don't know what the
implications for any given boater might be for carrying non USCG
approved lights. I suspect the most common problem might be
convincing a surveyor to pass an unstamped light. In any event, since
the OP was looking to change the bulb in his lamp I wanted him to be
aware that doing so will invalidate the USCG approval of the lamp. I
presume he is sailing on an uninspected vessel so it may well be
perfectly legal for him to go with LED bulbs but he might be unhappy
if his surveyor insists that he remove them in order to get
insurance.

--Tom.


I would be kind of amazed if a surveyor did anything more than flip the
lights switches on and off. No way s/he could tell if a bulb was approved or
not without physically inspecting it.. certainly no way during the day.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Apr 1, 8:07 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
No way s/he could tell if a bulb was approved or
not without physically inspecting it.. certainly no way during the day.

A cluster of LEDs inside a normally incandescent lamp might be a
clue.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 1, 8:07 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
No way s/he could tell if a bulb was approved or
not without physically inspecting it.. certainly no way during the day.

A cluster of LEDs inside a normally incandescent lamp might be a
clue.

-- Tom.


Might be, might not be... at the masthead? without taking off the lens on
the bowlights? And, then s/he would have to know if the particular fixture
is USCG approved. Without a close inspection, that might not be so easy.

--
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www.sailnow.com

On Apr 1, 8:45 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Might be, might not be... at the masthead? without taking off the lens on
the bowlights? And, then s/he would have to know if the particular fixture
is USCG approved. Without a close inspection, that might not be so easy.

Unless the lenses on your lights are badly fogged you can see the
bulbs through them clearly in the day in the lit and unlit states.
LED clusters also have distinctive bright spots when lit. I don't
have a clue if any particular surveyor would refuse to pass leds in an
incandescent lamp but if he doesn't even notice them he's
incompetent. Since the surveyor is not going to be able to insure
that the lamps are compliant with 22 by testing he could reasonably
insist on a USCG approved fixture. The CFR is specific: fixtures are
approved with the supplied bulb only. Putting in a different kind of
bulb makes them not USCG approved (that's different from not legal as
running lights under COLREGS). AFIK, the whole point of having USCG
approved fixtures is so end users and interested parties can be
assured that a lamp meets Annex I without testing the color,
luminosity and so on. As soon as you modify the lamp all bets are
off. There aren't all that many USCG approved fixtures out there.
Surveyors will be familiar with the common ones and should closely
inspect any they don't recognize.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 1, 8:45 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Might be, might not be... at the masthead? without taking off the lens on
the bowlights? And, then s/he would have to know if the particular
fixture
is USCG approved. Without a close inspection, that might not be so easy.

Unless the lenses on your lights are badly fogged you can see the
bulbs through them clearly in the day in the lit and unlit states.
LED clusters also have distinctive bright spots when lit. I don't
have a clue if any particular surveyor would refuse to pass leds in an
incandescent lamp but if he doesn't even notice them he's
incompetent. Since the surveyor is not going to be able to insure
that the lamps are compliant with 22 by testing he could reasonably
insist on a USCG approved fixture. The CFR is specific: fixtures are
approved with the supplied bulb only. Putting in a different kind of
bulb makes them not USCG approved (that's different from not legal as
running lights under COLREGS). AFIK, the whole point of having USCG
approved fixtures is so end users and interested parties can be
assured that a lamp meets Annex I without testing the color,
luminosity and so on. As soon as you modify the lamp all bets are
off. There aren't all that many USCG approved fixtures out there.
Surveyors will be familiar with the common ones and should closely
inspect any they don't recognize.

-- Tom.


Hmm.. well, I can't tell during the day when the bowlight is unlit, as least
I don't recall being able to tell. I looked at the hi-res images of the
following, but next time I'm at the boat, I'll look again.

Isn't the point whether or not the lights are visible from the prescribed
distance? And, this would be at night of course. So, it seems to me that if
you're involved in a collision at night, and you could show that no matter
what you had was in fact visible, does the CG care that they're "approved?"
I don't know the answer... just wondering.

http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW....49198843692818
http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW....18970863861506

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com