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Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:11:03 GMT, "Thomas, Spring Point Light"
wrote: but this global warming thing is political. Only in your corrupt little corner of the world where lobbyists pull the strings. |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Mar 1, 5:43 am, wrote:
What do you "unlearn"? For some racing sailors, it's difficult to relax while cruising but my observations seem to indicate that it's a personality issue, those individuals find it difficult to relax *any*where. Well, attitude is certainly an issue. Some people will like cruising who don't like racing and the reverse and some will like both... Racing and cruising are very different. But I wasn't really thinking about attitude as such. At least in my case the majority of my racing was done a few hours at a time in the day with the occasional week or 10 days of day races and an an occasional fully crewed long distance race. When I jumped into cruising full time my fist leg was from Brisbane to Noumea and my second was Noumea to Opua. While those aren't particularly long passages by Pacific standards they are marathons by racing standards. Moreover, I undertook them with just my girlfriend who was a novice sailor. Just in terms of the sailing, the mistakes I made on those legs were a result of applying a sprinter's skill set to a marathon. I won't bore you all with the gory details but on the first leg I shrimped the kite and on the second I averaged more than eleven (yes 11) sail changes a day. Needless to say, my wallet, my psyche and my body all suffered a lot. While I still set outboard sheets and barberhaulers and run the kite on a fairly regular basis, as a result of those first two legs I retrained myself in some pretty fundamental ways. Tweaking is fine when it amuses, but pace and rhythm are key to passage making. The pace and rhythm that were engraved in my brain as "sailing" from day racing weren't just inappropriate to the kind of long distance cruising that I took up, they were downright dangerous. And it is that that I am thinking of when I say I had to "unlearn" racing. There's also a bunch of stuff that I never learned or only thought I knew from racing that I think are important to safe and enjoyable cruising. That's a story for another day. But, IMO, the intersection of day racing skills and long distance cruising skills isn't all that big... -- Tom. |
Sailing qualifications - US
"Dennis Pogson" wrote in
: I have noticed that "global warming" as a phrase is no longer used here n the UK. They now refer to it as "climate change". Covers a multitude of sins! Hmm...Parliament must have come to its collective senses and cut off the free cheques...(c; |
Sailing qualifications - US
"Thomas, Spring Point Light" wrote in news:refyj.62
$Td2.55@trndny08: Didn't England go through a period refered to as the little ice age? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age |
Sailing qualifications - US
They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass.. I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and the wind was exactly right to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring area. Fun, kinda stupid but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on.... |
Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
"Samuel Murphy" wrote in message ... They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass.. I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and the wind was exactly right to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring area. Fun, kinda stupid but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on.... \ We did that on a 28' viking a few years ago. We were finishing a race and as we quickly approached the dock flying the spinnaker, discovered that I had wrapped the sheet around the winch once to many times. No way could we loosen it quickly to spill the air so the helmsman whipped out a Spyderco knife and made short work of the line. I learned my lesson that day. |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:50:01 +0000, Larry wrote:
Look around for the new "Solar Dimming" buzzword. And Goofball replied: Ok.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4171591.stm Google sunspot activity Numerous recent scientific announcments have been about the low of sunspot activity resulting in cooling of the earth this last year. If you follow the ups and downs of earth temp averages there are corosponding changes in sunspot activity. Several prominent Canadian scientists have stated in the last few days that they believe we are going to see another mini ice age like in the 1700-1800's due to this phenomenon, and that it could last a few hundred years. The sun rules. Al Gore is a fraud. Red |
Sailing qualifications - US
What do you "unlearn"?
For some racing sailors, it's difficult to relax while cruising Rosalie B. wrote: There's more than just relaxing unless you define relaxing as not rushing to the destination but enjoying the journey. Is it a matter of enjoying sailing? If an individual does not enjoy sailing then they're not going to like cruising *or* racing. If they do, then there is enjoyment to be found in both. Maybe it is that they need to value sturdiness over lightness. To pick sturdier materials. I can tell that you're one of those "cruising only" sailors. Breaking stuff is slow. The surest way to lose a race is to have even minor gear failure. And racers go out to sail & race in conditions that cruisers stay home in. And to have spares aboard in case something breaks, and also to have the stuff on board that one needs to live comfortably and not feel that they are camping out. That's not a *sailing* skill, is it? Sounds like common sense plus a slight amount of organization. " wrote: Well, attitude is certainly an issue. Some people will like cruising who don't like racing and the reverse and some will like both... Racing and cruising are very different. Agreed. .... But I wasn't really thinking about attitude as such. At least in my case the majority of my racing was done a few hours at a time in the day with the occasional week or 10 days of day races and an an occasional fully crewed long distance race. When I jumped into cruising full time my fist leg was from Brisbane to Noumea and my second was Noumea to Opua. While those aren't particularly long passages by Pacific standards they are marathons by racing standards. Moreover, I undertook them with just my girlfriend who was a novice sailor. Just in terms of the sailing, the mistakes I made on those legs were a result of applying a sprinter's skill set to a marathon. I won't bore you all with the gory details but on the first leg I shrimped the kite and on the second I averaged more than eleven (yes 11) sail changes a day. Needless to say, my wallet, my psyche and my body all suffered a lot. Hmmm.... please don't take this as an insult, because I don't mean it to be... but your racing did not teach you to prioritize wisely. "Getting there" is a goal for both cruising & racing, but the effort/ reward ratio is very different. While I still set outboard sheets and barberhaulers and run the kite on a fairly regular basis, as a result of those first two legs I retrained myself in some pretty fundamental ways. Tweaking is fine when it amuses, but pace and rhythm are key to passage making. The pace and rhythm that were engraved in my brain as "sailing" from day racing weren't just inappropriate to the kind of long distance cruising that I took up, they were downright dangerous. And it is that that I am thinking of when I say I had to "unlearn" racing. Okay, that makes sense; but when you were planning the leg (which is *certainly* a part of both racing & cruising) did you put any priority on getting good rest? On letting the boat settle down, perhaps even heaving-to, for meal preparation & eating? Certainly racers aren't going to do that but then they have greater manpower available and enjoying mealtimes isn't on the priority list. But prioritizing is certainly a common skill! There's also a bunch of stuff that I never learned or only thought I knew from racing that I think are important to safe and enjoyable cruising. That's a story for another day. But, IMO, the intersection of day racing skills and long distance cruising skills isn't all that big... Day racing not so much; however I will say again that it's easy to see the difference in skills between racers & cruisers when watching them maneuver in close quarters (which is a pretty big part of cruising). And point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered waters, is essentially the same as cruising except that risk/effort/ reward priorities are different... and that's partly a matter of attitude and partly a matter of realizing that it's up to you to set your priorities in the first place. Was it Socrates who warned against "the unexamined premise"? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Sailing qualifications - US
dougking opined:
There are some skills in cruising that are not needed in racing, but anyone who thinks racing doesn't develop a full set of seamanship skills has simply not payed attention. Doug, I would maybe be inclined to agree with you in concept *IF* you were talking about frequent open ocean racers. But if you think the big boat racers on Long Island Sound who mostly have never been on the ocean (except maybe the Block Island race, if that could count) are automatically better sailors than guys that spend significant time ocean voyaging... From what I've observed, I wouldn't trust even sailing on the Sound with many of those racers unless they were relagated to rail ballast. Not saying I'm as experienced or even as good as many of them, but many (certainly not all) I've observed while sailing are quite a few bricks short of house with tempers like a longshoreman who's told his pay is getting reduced. They are dangerous, arrogant, they take way too many chances, and they will not necessarily follow the rules if they think they can get away with it and that's just barely scratching the surface. Judgment is, in my opinion, at least as important as skill and I'm not just talking about judging the racecourse. In addition, races there in the main regattas usually call the race in any kind of inclement weather, so they do not get that experience. I think your comment above was just too general to properly make your point. Red |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Mar 1, 5:37 pm, wrote:
... Hmmm.... please don't take this as an insult, because I don't mean it to be... but your racing did not teach you to prioritize wisely. "Getting there" is a goal for both cruising & racing, but the effort/ reward ratio is very different. Ha! Racing taught me to win. For the racer it may be that winning isn't everything, but losing is worse than nothing. Yes, you've gotta finish to win and you'll note I finished those passages and quickly. By racing standards I prioritized just fine. I've never head a racer talk about effort/reward ratios, but if I did it would just make the racer in me salivate. We eat the weak ones. IMO, the intersection of day racing skills and long distance cruising skills isn't all that big... Day racing not so much; however I will say again that it's easy to see the difference in skills between racers & cruisers when watching them maneuver in close quarters (which is a pretty big part of cruising). A big part of cruising? Depends, I suppose. I'm a sailing addict and I take my cruiser out day sailing and push her a bit and I take some pride in my sailing as such. However, cruising as I practice it is about 10% sailing and 90% hanging on the anchor... I sail more than most cruisers I know. Maneuvering in close quarters under sail is a pretty rare event for the typical world cruiser. Maybe it's different for you... I get the feeling that we are talking about very different kinds of cruising. When I was a teenager I occasionally made off with my fathers old engineless Tartan 27 for a weekend of cruising on Lake Ontario. I sailed it single handed on and off docks and moorings as a matter of course. In that kind of cruising small boat handling skills learned racing do get exercised. But that kind of sailing, neat though it can be, is only a very small part of the universe of cruising. And point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered waters, is essentially the same as cruising except that risk/effort/ reward priorities are different... No. I think that's just plain wrong within the context of long range ocean cruising. The passage making is the smallest part of the cruising for most of us. -- Tom. |
Sailing qualifications - US
Don White wrote:
"Samuel Murphy" wrote in message ... They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass.. I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and the wind was exactly right to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring area. Fun, kinda stupid but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on.... \ We did that on a 28' viking a few years ago. We were finishing a race and as we quickly approached the dock flying the spinnaker, discovered that I had wrapped the sheet around the winch once to many times. No way could we loosen it quickly to spill the air so the helmsman whipped out a Spyderco knife and made short work of the line. I learned my lesson that day. Rolling hitches get rid of riding turns! That's racing for you! You lives and you learns! |
Sailing qualifications - US
No series of 'official' or 'required' for most recreational boaters in
the US. However, many states are now requiring a basic boaters competency certified. This is really just the basic and talks to needed 'safety' equipment, what those red and green things are in the water as well as the dangers of drinking and driving. These basic tests can be taken online or through a several agencies; both private and public, e.g. USCG, USPS. Beyond that, I know of three series of training. USCG has a series of training that covers several topic. The USPS was formed many years ago on the premise of training, and offers a series of courses (perhaps 20 or so) up through off shore navigation. Both of these are mostly 'book learning', but do give good and traditional knowledge. US Sailing also offers an extensive series of course, and they tend to include more on-the-water experience. Some say that US Sailing tends to be shorter on book learning, but the on the water is a key focus of theirs. Further, USPS has stepped forward to develop, in conjunction with US Sailing, a series of Boat Operators Certificates. These go beyond the book-learning to include on the water skills, and the higher version of these will target satisfying UN Resolution 40, "International Certificate for the Operation of Pleasure Craft". At this point, I am not aware of an intention to have any of these levels become 'requirements'. However, the basic operators competency certificates now in many states was driven by NASBLA; given that they have accomplished this 1st step, it would not surprise me that they are looking to drive additional step. -al- On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:08:03 GMT, "Dennis Pogson" wrote: Please excuse my ignorance in posing this question. As a UK sailor of many years experience in racing and cruising yachts, I am curious to know, since the subject rarely turns up, whether our US cousins have a similar series of qualifications to those administered in the UK by the Royal Yachting Association (Yachmaster, at various levels). I am not extolling the virtues of such "official"qualifications, indeed many UK sailors think they are less than useful, just curious to know if such training and examination facilities exist in the US, as the subject never seems to be discussed in this NG. Dennis. |
Sailing qualifications - US
" wrote:
By racing standards I prioritized just fine. Apparently not. You seem to not prioritize at all. It's a question of observing all relevant data, deciding what is going to contribute the most to your goal (when racing, it is beating the others... what is it when cruising?) and maximizing those factors. For example, look at Frank & Julian Bethwaite (rather successful racers I believe); spent a great deal of time & effort analyzing (and then explaining in their book) exactly how to tell when wind shifts are more important to the overall strategy of a particular race than wind strength. It is a matter of what you prioritize. I've never head a racer talk about effort/reward ratios, but if I did it would just make the racer in me salivate. We eat the weak ones. Without setting the right priorities, you'd be far astern drooling on yourself. And point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered waters, is essentially the same as cruising except that risk/effort/ reward priorities are different... No. I think that's just plain wrong within the context of long range ocean cruising. The passage making is the smallest part of the cruising for most of us. Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? Does preparation play any part in racing? It sure does in cruising. Does study of certain skills? Does getting the boat into the right place at the right time (or within a reasonable time window)? How about not running aground.... far more important in racing than cruising! Ditto for playing the tides. As for maneuvering in tight quarters, think for a minute. Take two! If you leave port (or anchorage) at the beginning of every passage, and enter port (or anchorage) at the end of every passage, that makes maneuvering your boat around obstacles 2x as important as passagemaking. The amount of time on passage may be much much greater, but you maneuver twice as often. Priorities! DSK |
Sailing qualifications - US
Salty said:
Perhaps in your home waters they call races for inclement weather. They don't do that up my way on the LIS. I often observe and photograph the local racers since I'm always out anyway. I remember one race in fairly wild weather... The wind and waves were picking up rapidly, and rain was coming down in buckets. Then it got bad. One of the boats radioed the commitee boat and advised that "Lightning is now hitting the water all around the boats. What do you want to do?." The committee boat didn't reply for about a minute, and then came back with, "Okay, I'm shortening the course". Sheeesh! Not where I mostly sail- western LIS. If it rains but the wind remains ok they will stay out, but if it gets real windy or rains hard they usually call it. While I can't see any reason to call a race for most weather, lightning still bothers me after nearly getting hit as I left a boat. The boat's electronics got fried, and another boat had the hull pierced over a hundred times. Red |
Sailing qualifications - US
Doug,
You wrote: ... point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered waters, is essentially the same as cruising ... And then you wrote: Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? ... So, yeah, I thought you were saying the cruising is the same as point- to-point racing. And I figured the only part of cruising __as I know it__ that could be like point to point racing is passage making. I must have been mistook. What did you mean? Also, since we obviously aren't talking about the same kind of cruising, it'd be helpful to me to know what kind of cruising you're talking about. I think an example or two of the kind of cruises you've taken would help me understand where you're coming from on this. -- Tom. |
Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote:
Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving. Interesting. Have any pictures ? |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:43:01 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:05:43 -0500, wrote: Keep yapping, stinkpotter! Dawg, if you are cruising Long Island Sound in the summer, then you are under power almost as much as I am. But your diesel smells better? My diesel? I don't got no steenkin diesel. And I know that as a powerboater, you think sailboats can't sail when there is no wind. The problem with that is simply that you are not aware of the wind at all when it is light. There almost always at least SOME wind. Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving. I don;t have to be anywhere on a schedule. I'm out having a wonderful time. I also sail in weather that would keep you in port. Taking advantage of tides and currents is also something you are unaware of. Keep yapping, stinkpotter! Knew a guy used to talk like you. He left Phi Phi Island, in Phang Nga Bay, Thailand, bound for Langkawi, Malaysia, about 100 miles away with nothing on the way but uninhabited islands. About 5 miles out of Phi Phi the wind died. Started his engine and the sail drive crapped itself - engine ran good but the prop doesn't turn.Almost two weeks later he arrived off Langkawi and got a tow into a marina that had a travel lift. Told me his good days were 10 miles mostly drifting with the tide and anchoring when the tide turned; sailed a couple of hours every once in a while. Ran out of food and was eating saltine crackers the last day, or so. He spent $3,000 fixing the sail drive before he came back :-( Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
Sailing qualifications - US
You wrote:
... point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered waters, is essentially the same as cruising ... And then you wrote: Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? ... So, yeah, I thought you were saying the cruising is the same as point- to-point racing. Hmm... looking back, I can see where you got that impression ;) How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less worrisome... as mentioned earlier, I am specifically *not* talking about the skill of flogging a boat around bouys as quickly as possible (which doesn't sound fun to non-racers, and they seem to have no idea what is involved), but rather the skills which go into enabling the sailor to do so in the first place.... preparation, prioritizing, boat- handling, knowledge & observation of weather & wind & tide patterns, the ability to know where the boat is going to fetch (and in what time frame) without having to concentrate, etc etc. The thing that most racers concentrate on most of the time... sail set & trim... is much less important in cruising. It sounds like that was your main focus. Also, since we obviously aren't talking about the same kind of cruising, it'd be helpful to me to know what kind of cruising you're talking about. I think an example or two of the kind of cruises you've taken would help me understand where you're coming from on this. Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise. It seems likely to me that you either haven't learned the same skills that I did from racing, or that you learned them without knowing that you know them, and thus never learned to consciously fit them into the big picture. I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of everything but generally prefer to drive. DSK |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Mar 4, 7:28 am, wrote:
.... How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less worrisome... If you were to add "while underway" somewhere in there I'd be content. Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise. Neat. I think I use my racing skills most when we are trying to get someplace say 50-70 miles away in the daylight (generally short tropical days) and less on longer passages. At anchor not at all. I'm guessing that US East Coast sailing involves a larger percent of the day hopping stuff and less of the "how many weeks have we been out here?" stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that played a big part in our philosophical differences. I also have this feeling that I'm missing some important part of your thesis. Sorry about that. I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of everything but generally prefer to drive. Yes, I can play most positions competently, too. I grew up racing the family boats which were one designs and the usual youth stuff. I moved on to fairly serious 470 and J-24 racing and also crewed on the big boats. I've done some name brand ocean races and lots of PHRF stuff. I have a "good" collection of horrible silver-plate, tatty flags and miscellaneous trophy things... -- Tom. |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Mar 4, 2:19 pm,
On Mar 4, 7:28 am, wrote: ... How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less worrisome... " wrote: If you were to add "while underway" somewhere in there I'd be content. At anchor you should be aware of windshifts & gusts, and especially aware of upcoming changes in weather, nyet? How about tidal currents.... the judging of which is definitely a useful racing skill unless the particular race is on a lake ;) I always use a transit to judge position on starting line, and it's the quickest & most accurate way to tell if the anchor is dragging. Etc etc etc. Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise. Neat. I think I use my racing skills most when we are trying to get someplace say 50-70 miles away in the daylight (generally short tropical days) and less on longer passages. At anchor not at all. Oh, I bet you use them more than you think (see above). The difference is, in a race there is quick and sure feedback on how accurate your judgements are, strong motivation, and teachers at the ready. In cruising, it is difficult to learn for many reasons and there is sort of a pass/fail threshold with no real reward other than continued peace & relaxation. I think this is one reason why sailing is a less popular sport in the US, it takes too much "paying attention." People would rather play video games. I'm guessing that US East Coast sailing involves a larger percent of the day hopping stuff and less of the "how many weeks have we been out here?" stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that played a big part in our philosophical differences. I also have this feeling that I'm missing some important part of your thesis. Sorry about that. Sorry to have not explained things better sooner. Plus I don't have much internet time these days and have made more errors than usual... due to hurrying, maybe I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of everything but generally prefer to drive. Yes, I can play most positions competently, too. I grew up racing the family boats which were one designs and the usual youth stuff. I moved on to fairly serious 470 and J-24 racing and also crewed on the big boats. I've done some name brand ocean races and lots of PHRF stuff. I have a "good" collection of horrible silver-plate, tatty flags and miscellaneous trophy things... Sounds like a lot of fun. I raced 470s a long time ago, got in some very fun races with some of the big names... I noticed Dave Ullman is kicking butt in Melges 24s these days. DSK |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:40:53 -0500, wrote:
Pictures of 2 knots of wind? I'd be willing to make a small wager that I have spent more time sailing up and down LIS looking for wind than you have but it would be a waste of time and breath on my part. What I was really interested in knowing was what kind of boat you had that sailed so well in 2 kts of breeze. |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Mar 1, 12:00*pm, " wrote:
On Mar 1, 5:43 am, wrote: What do you "unlearn"? Well, attitude is certainly an issue. -- Tom. Also unning the engine is not a sin. |
Sailing qualifications - US
On 2008-03-04 09:06:44 -0500, Wayne.B said:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote: Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving. Interesting. Have any pictures ? Who take pictures at such times? We're too busy keeping the boat moving, reading the tails, the ripples (if any) and anything else that could help. And the pics wouldn't look "sexy" if the boat were sitting flat, anyway. (Now the *other* pics on days like that..... ;-) -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
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Sailing qualifications - US
wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:06:36 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 06:51:54 -0500, wrote: I also probably spend less time then you looking for wind, as I know where to look. Not likely since my trawler goes pretty well in no wind at all. I'm still interested in knowing what kind of sailboat you have that goes well in 2 kts. I, of course was referring back to your claim of looking for wind on LIS when you sailed in sailboats. At least that's what you were claiming. I also don't recall using the word "well" when describing sailing in very light winds of as little as 2 kts. Then again, I consider being out on the water and enjoying myself to be the goal of sailing "well". I'm sure you meant something else, which is why you are now a stinkpotter. With 2 knots of wind, and perhaps assistance of tides and currents, I don't need to use my motor as much as you seem to think I do, which was also your claim, not mine. I don't think I claimed I was traveling as fast in those instances as I would if I decided to motor over to where I felt I would find a little more wind. It doesn't matter that much what boat I have, as many sailboats can, and do, operate in this fashion. Mine is a C&C 27 Mark 5, which is a relatively light boat with a tall rig and able to carry a lot of sail area. I don't even have the drag of a propeller in the water. It's rare that I can't find enough wind and current to keep it moving. Even in the 5 or 6 weeks out of our 6 month season when winds are notoriously light, it's rare to find a whole day with no wind. Light air is where you find out who really knows how to sail and get the most out of a boat. I have missed the beginning of this thread. Can someone recap the original question in a nutshell. TIA |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:00:37 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: But, IMO, the intersection of day racing skills and long distance cruising skills isn't all that big... True. Diesel repair, for example. Radar, sonar, GPS. Sewing and repairs of any kind. Casady |
Sailing qualifications - US
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:12:01 -0500, Rosalie B.
wrote: I wouldn't agree with that. People who have our type boat are perfectly happy in conditions that most racers and other cruisers turn back in. Boats Vary. Passagemakers, for example, need to be good to go in nearly any weather. Running may not be practical. Anchoring is out of the quesion in mid Atlantic. Little land to hide behind etc etc etc. Casady |
Sailing qualifications - US
wrote in message
... On 5 Mar 2008 12:22:01 -0600, Dave wrote: On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:56:03 -0500, said: Light air is where you find out who really knows how to sail and get the most When I was a young whippersnapper I used to mouth such sentiments. Now I figure I don't have to prove anything to anybody by "getting the most" out of the boat sitting there with the sails slatting about. So if the wind is 2 kts. I'll leave the boat on the mooring and do something a bit more edifying. I guess if I didn't have a wife, or a steady stream of friends that wanted to go sailing with me, I might feel the same. Fortunately, I don't need to be doing hull speed to enjoy time on the water. You have my sympathy. On top of that, your boat would be standing still or even going backwards in conditions where I make steady progress going forwards. Your boat is about the same rough dimensions as mine, but weighs about 50% more than mine, shorter rig, and carries less sail. Do you even own a spinnaker? Multiple headsails? C&C 27-5 weight 4720 pounds sail area 343 square feet air draft 39.4 feet CS27 weight 6100 pounds sail area 299 square feet air draft 37 feet I don't get it... my boat (Sabre 30), which weights about 8000 and about 430 sq ft of sail area, will sail just fine in a couple of knots of wind. I have yet to use my drifter, so I'm talking about sailing with a working jib. Sure, I'm not outrunning the jetskis, but we do move along. Might not get anywhere or be going in the wrong direction due to the current, but the sails are working. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Sailing qualifications - US
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:34:23 -0500, said: Yes, and it also may explain why you think sailing in light air isn't enjoyable. Maybe the new sail will bring back some of the fun for you. Old sails, new sails...slatting about in 2kts of wind with powerboat wakes and the August sun beating down isn't fun. As the captain of your boat it is YOUR decision to sail in those conditions. May I suggest YOU take personal responsibility for your decisions and stop your complaining. While there's not much that can be done to conjure up some wind, other than whistling, it is very easy to avoid powerboat wakes. Just sail off soundings. There you will find few or no powerboat wakes. As for the August sun beating down, try sailing in higher latitudes where the temperature is more bearable. After all, one of the biggest reasons to sail is to be able to follow the seasons so as to have close to optimal weather the year round. The bottom line is if you think and act like a lubber then sailing will rarely suit you. If sailing only interests you when the wind is perfect, there are no other boats in sight, the temperature is in the low 70's, the women are naked and hot to trot and the drinks have plenty of ice in them then you should consider just staying home. Wilbur Hubbard |
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