February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One

Well, sailing successfully to a key, anyway.

As I write, we're anchored off Rodriguez Key south of Miami. No
doubt, those of you who've commented on my logs before have
noticed I've not been saying much lately. The "why" of that is
another story altogether, but it suffices to say that our last
many weeks have been varied and different in many ways from our
first several months afloat.

Before I get into the sailboat stuff, for those who may have been
concerned, we've been attending to a lot of personal (as compared
to cruising) business. Among them is the expiration of our Cobra
coverage under Lydia's prior employment insurance extension.
Those of you on Lydia's log got a flavor of that in her last
posting. That expiration led us to try to squeeze all the
last-minute stuff we could into our policy.

So, we came to Miami, where we not only managed the final refill
on our medications on the day before our expiration, we got a
final colonoscopy and my light-vision test as the final item
needed for my medicals to qualify for my USCG commercial license
for me, and a mammogram and a nasal resection for Lydia.

Lydia's mammogram was a very distinct departure from every prior
one she's ever had, as it was done with one of the new digital
machines. We men have no concept of what women suffer in
mammograms, but the new machines not only don't do the suffering,
it's over in a flash.

Her nasal resection was over quickly, too, but despite the
marvelous "stuff" (flower children may use a different, more
scatological, euphemism.) she was provided, she strenuously
objected to the pain in her nose for a day until the packing was
removed from her nostrils. She's been breathing freely, ever
since. She even noted to a friend that, as a result of her having
to sleep on one side for all her life, she has wrinkles on one
side of her face which aren't present on the other. She's making
up for lost time, sleeping nearly universally on the other side,
now, so, while she'll tell you it (the pain, compared to the
gain) wasn't worth it, for the rest of her life she'll be able to
breathe easy, so to speak. Already, she doesn't need nearly as
much sleep as she did, the sleep interruption resulting from her
obstructed nasal passage having caused frequent apnea-like
symptoms being what caused me to finally put my foot down and
demand she see an ENT.

All of our medical stuff in Miami, including my vision test, was
as a result of a connection forged with the cruising community.
That doctor - who was also an FAA examiner, and thus gave me my
light test (the means to confirm that I wasn't a danger on the
water!) - was instantly able to refer us to some of the very best
in the medical community in Miami.

Now that that's over, however, we went sailing. I'll come back to
the immediate past, but first...

We sailed down to Miami from Lake Worth - but only after making
the inside passage from there to Ft. Lauderdale, including the 21
opening bridges. It took two days to get there, with an overnight
stop in "Lake Boca Raton" - a puddle off to the side in the
Intra-Coastal Waterway - where we were, again, able to get a very
nice internet connection.

Once we reached Port Everglades, the Fort Lauderdale commercial
port, we headed south in lousy conditions, but made it to Miami
without incident. We even threaded the needle in extremely
shallow water, getting to our St. Steven's mooring off the Miami
Yacht Club without grounding. Getting on that mooring was a bit
exciting in the wind, however, and we fouled our prop with the
mooring.

Into the water with my hookah rig (a compressor on the deck, with
a long line providing air below) and wetsuit, I got it untangled
with only the loss of one tool but no other real excitements, and
we hooked on for the night. Side trips excepted, we've been there
ever since. In the meantime, however, since St. Steven wanted a
car at the yacht club so he could use it when he flew into the
area, we rented a car, made a dash back to St. Simons, drove both
cars down, and his car, too, has been at our disposal for our
entire time here. Mucho gracias, multi bene, merci beaucoup and
every other form of thanks you could imagine. We'd not be able to
have done it without your generosity.

Before we got into our medical stuff, Saints Steven and Michael,
along with their wives, came for a visit, which is related to the
title of this log. We'd hoped to sail to where we are, now...

The weather gods, however, had gotten the schedule confused. It
was nasty enough that their arrival was delayed by a day, and
once here, the day we could leave had the wind briskly coming
from the south, which is great for a Gulf Stream Crossing, but
not much for getting down the island chain inshore. It's been
quite a while since I did this particular passage, the last time
being when we took possession and delivered the boat. As a
result, I'd forgotten the fine details, and when I looked at the
overview of the chart, it appeared that there was ample room to
tack down the channel, and, even though it would take a long
time,
it was ok. They'd come to sail, and that would be sailing, wouldn't
it? So, it would be all right. That it was at night was of little
moment, as it would
mean that we'd arrive at daylight, allowing for more snorkeling
time, and allow a night passage experience as well.

However, not only did our tacking give us next to no forward
progress (in the total scheme of things), as we approached the
Fowey Rocks weather station, and continued to look at the detail
of the route, it was apparent that Hawk Channel was the only safe
way to navigate the last portion of the trip. To go outside of
the reefs would mean bucking the Gulf Stream's current; it's
possible that we'd make no actual forward progress at all.

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.


So, at about midnight, after deciding to let the second watch
sleep in for many hours past our expected changeover, Steve and
I, the first watch, made the executive decision to head back the
other way, taking advantage of the prevailing wind of the time,
and of the expected wind shift to the other direction allowing us
to come back the following day.

Sure enough, we dashed north, and arrived off Miami in short
order. Given that they'd come to sail, the destination wasn't as
important as the experience, and since the wind was scheduled to
come around the other way on the following day, it would make for
a nice return, as well. So, off we went, expecting to go into Ft.
Lauderdale for a leisurely rest before returning.

As the sailing was so good, we kept on going, and woke the next
shift when we were about 5 miles north of Miami's Government Cut,
at about 4AM. Lydia, Mike, Vicki and Dianne took over as the wind
built on a perfect broad reach. However, they all were gossiping
so much that they entirely missed Ft. Lauderdale as it went by,
and by daylight, were nearly to Lake Worth. When they realized
their mistake, they attempted a reversal, only to foul both
sails. The ensuing noise woke both me and Steve, and we were all
on deck for the bash into the building wind to get us back to Ft.
Lauderdale. We managed to tack our way back in, keeping close to
shore to minimize the waves and try to take advantage of any
counter-current off the Gulf Stream.

Once into Ft. Lauderdale's Port Everglades, we headed down the
ICW to an area Steve and Mike knew, pulled up to a restaurant to
have a late lunch, and assessed where we might spend the night.
Flying Pig is substantially deeper than either of their boats, so
finding an anchorage was going to be challenging. Neither of the
marinas in the area responded to either VHF radio hails or cell
phone calls, so Steve and Mike set out on foot to reach the
marina on the same side as the restaurant.

There, they encountered one of our newest, charming, unique
friends - Ricki, a big-boat Captain living on her own massive
trawler/cruiser there in the marina. She told them we should come
on in and it would either be free or a trivial amount to stay.
Nobody's home most of the time, there, due to its being under
renovation, and being a weekend, it was no problem. Hot showers
and laundry ensued, and, the weather being what it was, we stayed
another day, as to go south in the rain which was building, along
with the strong winds, wasn't appealing.

However, Steve and Mike needed to be back in the air, and,
fortunately, Mike's plane wasn't far away, since they landed at a
corporate airport nearby in Ft. Lauderdale when they came down
(see Steve's car at the marina for reference). We inquired about
calling a cab, and Ricki insisted, instead, on taking them there.

So, as they headed off to their airport, because the weather was
forecast to be building, and even worse than it was at the
moment, we shipped out as well. With a strong following wind and
seas, we rolled around and crash jibed several times, breaking,
first, the shackle on the deck side of the preventer (the line
from the end of the boom, led forward, supposed to prevent the
boom from flopping the other way if the wind shifts), and then,
on the boom attachment point. So, we put in the sails and
motor-sailed on bare poles, making over 8 knots at times.

With all the rolling which happened without any sails to steady
us, I took advantage of the cleaning action to run the fuel
polisher. As our vacuum guage has stayed at the same level as a
new filter, I'm convinced that we got as much as will likely, or
even possibly, be dislodged, from the walls and floor of the tank
as a result of our wreck and trip back to the yard afterward last
year at about this time. None the less, it makes me feel secure
to think that our Racor filters get only the best, cleanest fuel,
and any future filter changes will be presumptive rather than
fouled!

As my dear friend George says, this is reaching 4 pages, so the
rest of the story will have to wait for another time. We arrived
in Miami none the worse for wear, got ourselves back on the
mooring ball, and set about our medical chores. I'll tell you
more about the keys and Ft. Lauderdale in the next installment.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power
to make it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.


Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple of miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between the
outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to tack to one's
heart's desire. Skippy is a liar! Obviously makes up more sailing tales
than he actually lives. And, for your further edification, the Gulf Stream
current rarely comes to within three to five miles of the barrier reef. And,
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that draws five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in most
places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath the surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not much of
a problem. Time to get real Skippy. Your lies about the Florida Keys will be
exposed by yours truly because, like many places up and down the East Coast
and the Gulf Coast and the Florida Keys and the entire Bahamas chain, I've
spent years being there doing that.

Wilbur Hubbard

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Feb 20, 6:42 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

...

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.

Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple of miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between the
outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to tack to one's
heart's desire. Skippy is a liar! Obviously makes up more sailing tales
than he actually lives. And, for your further edification, the Gulf Stream
current rarely comes to within three to five miles of the barrier reef. And,
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that draws five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in most
places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath the surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not much of
a problem. Time to get real Skippy. Your lies about the Florida Keys will be
exposed by yours truly because, like many places up and down the East Coast
and the Gulf Coast and the Florida Keys and the entire Bahamas chain, I've
spent years being there doing that.

Wilbur Hubbard

You've obviously not been paying attention to my prior posts. Our
yacht draws well over 6 feet, and the destination we were attempting
was just beyond Fowey Rocks.

The combination caused us to make an easier landfall and sailing
destination. As the later portion of my post indicates, we did indeed
transit that area later, with great results.

As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...

We're out doing it...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:30:11 -0800 (PST), Skip Gundlach
wrote:

On Feb 20, 6:42 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

...

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.

Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple of miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between the
outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to tack to one's
heart's desire. Skippy is a liar! Obviously makes up more sailing tales
than he actually lives. And, for your further edification, the Gulf Stream
current rarely comes to within three to five miles of the barrier reef. And,
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that draws five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in most
places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath the surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not much of
a problem. Time to get real Skippy. Your lies about the Florida Keys will be
exposed by yours truly because, like many places up and down the East Coast
and the Gulf Coast and the Florida Keys and the entire Bahamas chain, I've
spent years being there doing that.

Wilbur Hubbard

You've obviously not been paying attention to my prior posts. Our
yacht draws well over 6 feet, and the destination we were attempting
was just beyond Fowey Rocks.

The combination caused us to make an easier landfall and sailing
destination. As the later portion of my post indicates, we did indeed
transit that area later, with great results.

As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...

We're out doing it...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

Ah Skip, don't pay poor old Willie-boy no mind. He just sits there in
his Lazy-boy recliner, down there at the trailer park, reading his
books and magazines and imagining he is sailing the Spanish Main. He
rides a bicycle to work, don't even have a car, never mind a boat --
except for the rubber duck there in the bathtub.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:30:11 -0800 (PST), Skip Gundlach
wrote:

On Feb 20, 6:42 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

...

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.

Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information,
Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from
Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple of
miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between the
outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to tack to
one's
heart's desire. Skippy is a liar! Obviously makes up more sailing tales
than he actually lives. And, for your further edification, the Gulf
Stream
current rarely comes to within three to five miles of the barrier reef.
And,
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that draws
five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in most
places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath the
surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not much
of
a problem. Time to get real Skippy. Your lies about the Florida Keys
will be
exposed by yours truly because, like many places up and down the East
Coast
and the Gulf Coast and the Florida Keys and the entire Bahamas chain,
I've
spent years being there doing that.

Wilbur Hubbard

You've obviously not been paying attention to my prior posts. Our
yacht draws well over 6 feet, and the destination we were attempting
was just beyond Fowey Rocks.

The combination caused us to make an easier landfall and sailing
destination. As the later portion of my post indicates, we did indeed
transit that area later, with great results.

As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...

We're out doing it...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

Ah Skip, don't pay poor old Willie-boy no mind. He just sits there in
his Lazy-boy recliner, down there at the trailer park, reading his
books and magazines and imagining he is sailing the Spanish Main. He
rides a bicycle to work, don't even have a car, never mind a boat --
except for the rubber duck there in the bathtub.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

========================

In my opinion, Wibur makes some valid points.. he certainly seems to know
the channel he posted about.

As for Skips "As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised in
the last
- say - year...We're out doing it..."

Skip is living part time on a boat, to call what he has been doing
"cruising" is a very big stretch.

Since his ill-fated launch, ship wreck, repair, rebuild, depression, .. blah
blah .. about all the cruising he has
done is along the coast, and even this was short hops with long anchor
hanging time in between.

It is February, very cold where I live, snow up the *&^%. If I was "living"
on my boat, "living" the
cruising lifestyle as many do .. I would be in the island, Bahama's, Cuba..
who knows ... but I would
not be sitting at some "good guy let me use it" dock in FLA. That isn't
cruising, that is houseboat
time.

I enjoy Skips postings, in a weird way they are like a bad tv show with a
predictable plot, but I keep
watching anyway. He speaks of his life, health, relatives, etc... very
enjoyable. But .. not in any
way, or stretch of the imagination is what he has been doing ... CRUISING.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in
news:CAevj.20178$eg3.7989@trndny05:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:30:11 -0800 (PST), Skip Gundlach
wrote:

On Feb 20, 6:42 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

news:4ef13d3f-d5d1-4e60-ad28-6a00e27b8e08
@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.c
om...

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.

Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN
Hawk Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's
information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way
from Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple
of miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between
the outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to
tack to one's
heart's desire. Skippy is a liar! Obviously makes up more sailing
tales than he actually lives. And, for your further edification,
the Gulf Stream
current rarely comes to within three to five miles of the barrier
reef. And,
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that
draws five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in
most places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath
the surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not
much of
a problem. Time to get real Skippy. Your lies about the Florida
Keys will be
exposed by yours truly because, like many places up and down the
East Coast
and the Gulf Coast and the Florida Keys and the entire Bahamas
chain, I've
spent years being there doing that.

Wilbur Hubbard

You've obviously not been paying attention to my prior posts. Our
yacht draws well over 6 feet, and the destination we were attempting
was just beyond Fowey Rocks.

The combination caused us to make an easier landfall and sailing
destination. As the later portion of my post indicates, we did indeed
transit that area later, with great results.

As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised in the
last - say - year...

We're out doing it...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

Ah Skip, don't pay poor old Willie-boy no mind. He just sits there in
his Lazy-boy recliner, down there at the trailer park, reading his
books and magazines and imagining he is sailing the Spanish Main. He
rides a bicycle to work, don't even have a car, never mind a boat --
except for the rubber duck there in the bathtub.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

========================

In my opinion, Wibur makes some valid points.. he certainly seems to
know the channel he posted about.

As for Skips "As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've
cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it..."

Skip is living part time on a boat, to call what he has been doing
"cruising" is a very big stretch.

Since his ill-fated launch, ship wreck, repair, rebuild, depression,
.. blah blah .. about all the cruising he has
done is along the coast, and even this was short hops with long anchor
hanging time in between.

It is February, very cold where I live, snow up the *&^%. If I was
"living" on my boat, "living" the
cruising lifestyle as many do .. I would be in the island, Bahama's,
Cuba.. who knows ... but I would
not be sitting at some "good guy let me use it" dock in FLA. That
isn't cruising, that is houseboat
time.

I enjoy Skips postings, in a weird way they are like a bad tv show
with a predictable plot, but I keep
watching anyway. He speaks of his life, health, relatives, etc...
very enjoyable. But .. not in any
way, or stretch of the imagination is what he has been doing ...
CRUISING.

The key thing to remember is that the vast majority of the people who
respond in this group have never cruised. Most of the people have
sailed at some time in their lives and have owned, or own, sailboats.
You also have the people who race, but that has virtually nothing do to
with cruising.

But as far as doing anything more than long vacations on their boats,
they've never sailed more than a few hundred miles from their home port.
Oh, excuse me, they've also chartered in the BVIs or somewhere similiar.

The fact of the matter is that most cruisers move from port to port, or
anchorage to anchorage, in much the same manner that people move their
RVs between RV parks. There's nothing the matter with this, other than
it doesn't fit the image that some of you have of a "real" cruiser.

It's also interesting that many of you think that you can only cruise on
a sailboat. I know lots of people who cruise on their trawlers and we
are often jealous of their space and comfort. Simply because they're
not cruising using wind power, doesn't mean that they're not cruising.
Look at the title of this group: reg.boats.cruising. Do you notice
that it's not rec.sailing.cruising? Maybe you should take a hint from
that.

It seems like some of you think that if you're cruising, that you need
to be constantly moving the boat. I've done that, and found that I've
missed a lot along the way. You need to stop and get to know an area to
truly experience a culture. I much prefer to find an area that I like
and hang around for an extended period of time.

We found that we really liked the NW Caribbean (Belize, Guatemala &
Honduras) and spent 4 seasons exploring the area and giving me my diving
fixes. I had absolutely no problem spending the majority of a season
anchored at Lighthouse Reef in Belize diving 2 times a day. Some of you
might not call that cruising, but it makes me happy.

You'll also note that you rarely see posts from the standard
contributors about their cruising. Most of them post year round from
the comfort of their homes and spend most of their time bashing others.

Skip certainly has had his fair share of problems, many of them self
generated, but he is out there learning and doing it. I wish him well
and hope that the reality lives up to the dream. So until you start
posting from your boat that you're moving from port to port, don't you
dare claim that Skip isn't cruising.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

Geoff Schultz wrote:

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

news:4ef13d3f-d5d1-4e60-ad28-6a00e27b8e08

om...

Unfortunately, Hawk Channel is very narrow, so tacking was out of
the question, and, worse, has day marks only to show where we
should be staying, even if we were to "drive" (motor vs. sail)
it. That meant that we'd not be able to navigate it in the dark.

Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN
Hawk Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's
information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way
from Miami
to Key West with the exception of a small choke point of a couple
of miles
in and around Fowey Rocks light. It consists of the area between
the outlying barrier reef and the Keys. Plenty of water there to
tack to one's snip
in most places, the reef itself is no barrier to a sailboat that
draws five
feet or so. One can tack his way across the reef back and forth in
most places. In many places the reef is ten to twelve feet beneath
the surface at
MLW. It's a hazard to shipping but to small sailing yachts it's not
much of
a problem.
snip
In my opinion, Wibur makes some valid points.. he certainly seems to
know the channel he posted about.
snip

I know Hawk Channel quite well having transited it several times in
our boat which only draws 5 feet. Theoretically, we could travel up
or down the ICW (which is on the Bay side of the Keys) at least as far
as Marathon, but there are some shallow spots at least on the charts.
One of our sister boats, driven to get away from a hurricane that was
approaching Key West managed to get through without a problem, but
absent some kind of emergency like that, we take Hawk Channel.

Even though the reef may not be that shallow in most places, I would
certainly not deliberately tack across it. And in a boat drawing 6+
feet it would be more hazardous. There are some coral islands in Hawk
Channel, and it is important to pay attention to the charts even
though most of it is pretty clear sailing. We've never had a problem
other than having the wind from the wrong direction to where we wanted
to go.

So basically, they were both right in part and wrong in part. Wilbur
overstated the ease of tacking up the Hawk Channel because Skips boat
has a deep draft. Not only did he exaggerate the depth hazard, but he
failed to note that Skip was near the choke point in the channel at
Fowley Rocks. And most of Hawk Channel IS pretty wide so saying that
he couldn't tack in Hawk Channel wasn't correct except for the area
where he was - possibly having in view compressing the reporting of
the decision making process.

The key thing to remember is that the vast majority of the people who
respond in this group have never cruised. Most of the people have
sailed at some time in their lives and have owned, or own, sailboats.
You also have the people who race, but that has virtually nothing do to
with cruising.

But as far as doing anything more than long vacations on their boats,
they've never sailed more than a few hundred miles from their home port.
Oh, excuse me, they've also chartered in the BVIs or somewhere similiar.

The fact of the matter is that most cruisers move from port to port, or
anchorage to anchorage, in much the same manner that people move their
RVs between RV parks. There's nothing the matter with this, other than
it doesn't fit the image that some of you have of a "real" cruiser.

It's also interesting that many of you think that you can only cruise on
a sailboat. I know lots of people who cruise on their trawlers and we
are often jealous of their space and comfort. Simply because they're
not cruising using wind power, doesn't mean that they're not cruising.
Look at the title of this group: reg.boats.cruising. Do you notice
that it's not rec.sailing.cruising? Maybe you should take a hint from
that.

It seems like some of you think that if you're cruising, that you need
to be constantly moving the boat. I've done that, and found that I've
missed a lot along the way. You need to stop and get to know an area to
truly experience a culture. I much prefer to find an area that I like
and hang around for an extended period of time.

I'm not sure what the definition of cruising is, but it should include
living on the boat and moving it occasionally. (IMHO) We went up
and down the ICW for several years, but when it got too stressful, we
stopped and now just take short trips in the Chesapeake. I consider
that we have been cruisers, but I don't think that because we've
stopped and are now living in a house that it makes our opinions
invalid.

I'm not sure what will happen when we get too old to even do that (we
are in our 70s). I'm not looking forward to that, but I guess it is
better than the alternate. I know it won't be a trawler because Bob
gets his pleasure in boating from sailing. And I'm pretty sure it
won't be an RV either.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Geoff Schultz" wrote

So until you start posting from your boat that you're moving from port to
port, don't you
dare claim that Skip isn't cruising.


Hear, hear. Well said.

--
Roger Long
(Posting from the comfort of his office:)


If I follow ............. then no one should post anything here because our
opinion isn't
of value.

Cruising in the way I think of it, is long trips across open ocean. Coastal
sailing, which is
what I do, is not in the same category.

Why shouldn't I "dare" to call what Skip is doing Coastal Sailing and what
folks who sail across
the open ocean Cruising? That is why I read the postings here,, to see if I
learn something and to
post an opinion.

I dare to call what Skip is doing :: Coastal Cruising, living on a boat.

Nothing wrong with that. Good for Skip..

But :: for Skip to say;; "As before, I invite you to tell us of where
you've cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it..."

As an answer to someone who challenges his knowledge of a channel ..

He is opening up the subject of what true Cruising is.

If, for example, Skip had sailed from Florida to Antigua for Sailing week,
and anyone "dared" to question his
cruising status, then I would side with Skip.

But for Skip, who has really only gone up and down the coast, to challenge a
sailor as if he is a world
ocean crossing skipper .. I don't think he has earned his Cruising Stripes
yet.

Just my opinion.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

Amen, brother. That's the best post on _cruising_ that I've seen
around here in a long time. Thanks,

-- Tom.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Feb 21, 5:30 am, Rosalie B. wrote:
... I'm not sure what the definition of cruising is, but it should include
living on the boat and moving it occasionally. ...

Yes, I think so, too. For instance in one seven and a bit month
season we visited Palmyra, Kanton, Apia, Niuatoputapu, and Savusavu.
Followed by six months mostly at anchor in New Zealand. Basically, we
were living on the boat and occasionally moving and for me this is the
very best form of cruising. Lots of people go from the West coast to
Oz or New Zealand in a few months and spend all their time at anchor
writing their blogs. Obviously, that's what they like, but we still
send letters back and forth with many folks from the places we've
visited and I cherish the time we've spent just sitting around and
getting to know folks... YMMV, of course, but in my book living
aboard and moving around a bit is cruising in Florida every bit as
much as it is in Tonga.

-- Tom.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Feb 21, 6:04 am, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:
... If I follow ............. then no one should post anything here because our
opinion isn't of value.

I don't think you follow or perhaps you're indulging in a bit of
hyperbole. Please keep posting.

... Cruising in the way I think of it, is long trips across open ocean. Coastal
sailing, which is
what I do, is not in the same category. ...

I don't really follow this. If I sail to Vava'u from New Zealand on
my boat and then spend a month or two bobbing around in the anchorages
(many of them just a few tens of yards apart) am I cruising? Is the
person who flies in and charters a boat and bobs around the same
anchorages for the same amount of time not cruising? If I deliver a
boat from New Zealand to Vava'u and then fly back am I cruising? To
me cases one and two are probably cruising and three probably isn't...

Why shouldn't I "dare" to call what Skip is doing Coastal Sailing and what
folks who sail across
the open ocean Cruising? ..

Dare, dare! :) Seems to me though that the essence of cruising isn't
particularly about a person's or boat's ability to go offshore.
Certainly, there is a distinction between coastal sailing and ocean
passage making, but you can do both without cruising and either can be
cruising...

-- Tom.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

wrote in message
...
On Feb 21, 6:04 am, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:
... If I follow ............. then no one should post anything here
because our
opinion isn't of value.

I don't think you follow or perhaps you're indulging in a bit of
hyperbole. Please keep posting.

... Cruising in the way I think of it, is long trips across open ocean.
Coastal
sailing, which is
what I do, is not in the same category. ...

I don't really follow this. If I sail to Vava'u from New Zealand on
my boat and then spend a month or two bobbing around in the anchorages
(many of them just a few tens of yards apart) am I cruising? Is the
person who flies in and charters a boat and bobs around the same
anchorages for the same amount of time not cruising? If I deliver a
boat from New Zealand to Vava'u and then fly back am I cruising? To
me cases one and two are probably cruising and three probably isn't...

Why shouldn't I "dare" to call what Skip is doing Coastal Sailing and
what
folks who sail across
the open ocean Cruising? ..

Dare, dare! :) Seems to me though that the essence of cruising isn't
particularly about a person's or boat's ability to go offshore.
Certainly, there is a distinction between coastal sailing and ocean
passage making, but you can do both without cruising and either can be
cruising...

-- Tom.


Tom ,, let's see if I can make this clear. In the first posting, Skip
talks about a channel [Hawk Channel] he
had to deal with that is according to him very narrow ..

This posting is followed by Wilbur, saying he knows the channel and Wilbur
calls Skip
a liar and writes ..

"Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West"

So Skip calls Wilbur a non cruiser and writes "As before, I invite you to
tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it...".

Like most folks on this newsgroup, I have followed Skip's adventures. His
build, sinking, repair, and then his trip up
the coast, a few medical and mental issues,, and now his trip down the
coast...

My input,, Skip hasn't really gone Cruising yet. He has done some coastal
sailing, but not really gone off, over the
horizon .. and that is what I feel is a true Cruiser.

I don't think Skip can rely on his experience living on his boat and doing
some coastal sailing as an answer to
someone who questions his veracity about a certain channel. My feeling is
until he actually goes off on an open
ocean passage, until he sets out for that island over the horizon, and then
returns, or at the very least accomplishes
some trip that is more than a day sail, then he must answer the question
with facts, his experience in the channel,
etc rather than to say "We're out doing it". For example, if the Pardey's
wrote that the channel was narrow, and someone
posted that it wasn't .. I would side with the Pardey's since they have
years of experience cruising to all kinds of different
anchorages.

In my opinion, Skip needs to show me more in the way of sailing trips before
he gets my "Yup, Skip knows what he is
talking about and Wilbur is a jerk"

I am a coastal sailor. If I wrote that the channel into Portland, Maine was
XXXXX and someone said I was a liar,
I couldn't just say "I've been sailing longer than you so take that"..

I would need to explain. Tell why I though the channel was narrow. Maybe
for me it was. Maybe Skip is
cautious and what he thinks is narrow is a big open ocean to another.

I hope this clears up what I meant.

Now .. maybe Skip will explain the difference between his view of Hawk
Channel from Wilbur's view of the same channel.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote:

Tom ,, let's see if I can make this clear. In the first posting, Skip
talks about a channel [Hawk Channel] he
had to deal with that is according to him very narrow ..

This posting is followed by Wilbur, saying he knows the channel and Wilbur
calls Skip
a liar and writes ..

"Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from Miami
to Key West"

So Skip calls Wilbur a non cruiser and writes "As before, I invite you to
tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it...".

Like most folks on this newsgroup, I have followed Skip's adventures. His
build, sinking, repair, and then his trip up
the coast, a few medical and mental issues,, and now his trip down the
coast...

My input,, Skip hasn't really gone Cruising yet. He has done some coastal
sailing, but not really gone off, over the
horizon .. and that is what I feel is a true Cruiser.

I don't really agree with this and I think it is an artificial
distinction. If we agree then only people who qualify for full
membership in the SSCA (I think it is 1500 miles without stopping of
something of the sort) or delivery skippers who are not in the ICW or
coastal cruising would be cruisers. I don't think being a delivery
skipper qualifies, even though some of them certainly go off over the
horizon. We wouldn't qualify because we do not go offshore for more
than about 36 hours max. Bob says it is because I'm chicken, and I
suppose I am, but maybe that is because I am exercising good judgment
about what is appropriate for us.

You can have your definition - no one can keep you from doing that.
But we don't have to agree.

I said what my definition was - someone who lives on the boat (by
which I mean more than a weekend or even a couple of weeks - whether
or not they have a house) and moves the boat from place to place (no
marina queens)

The thing about coastal sailing is - you really need MORE skill to do
it and not less. Out in the ocean it is mostly a matter of weather,
and watches with nothing much to hit, and in a lot of places, nothing
much to hit you.

I don't think Skip can rely on his experience living on his boat and doing
some coastal sailing as an answer to
someone who questions his veracity about a certain channel. My feeling is
until he actually goes off on an open
ocean passage, until he sets out for that island over the horizon, and then
returns, or at the very least accomplishes
some trip that is more than a day sail, then he must answer the question
with facts, his experience in the channel,
etc rather than to say "We're out doing it".

He has been out for more than a day - that's how he got into trouble
in the first place. And I think it also counts as to whether someone
is heading out there even if they haven't gone yet. Planning and
getting ready is part of it.

For example, if the Pardey's
wrote that the channel was narrow, and someone
posted that it wasn't .. I would side with the Pardey's since they have
years of experience cruising to all kinds of different
anchorages.

The Pardey's have more experience than just about anyone, but it would
be more relevant as to whether they had experience with the particular
location under discussion. If they haven't been there, their
experience has no bearing on the issue and gives them no particular
standing.

Hawk Channel isn't an anchorage. One of the problems for us is that
there aren't any reasonable anchorages for a deeper draft boat (5 feet
or over) where we would naturally need them.

Hawk Channel is the area between the offshore reefs and the various
islands in the Keys. It is about 160 miles long by road. There are
only a few places where one can get to the other side of the Keys, and
between Miami and Marathon there are almost no protected places to
anchor on the ocean side except behind either Rodriguez Key or
Tavernier and those don't usually come at a good time for a day's
sail.

We have staged at Rodriguez for a jump across the Gulf Stream to the
Bahamas, leaving at night. Or rather leaving before dark so that I
can still see where we are going and can go through the gaps in the
reef. It is difficult to anchor there because the holding isn't too
good..

In my opinion, Skip needs to show me more in the way of sailing trips before
he gets my "Yup, Skip knows what he is
talking about and Wilbur is a jerk"

I am a coastal sailor. If I wrote that the channel into Portland, Maine was
XXXXX and someone said I was a liar,
I couldn't just say "I've been sailing longer than you so take that"..

I would need to explain. Tell why I though the channel was narrow. Maybe
for me it was. Maybe Skip is
cautious and what he thinks is narrow is a big open ocean to another.

I hope this clears up what I meant.

Now .. maybe Skip will explain the difference between his view of Hawk
Channel from Wilbur's view of the same channel.

He's already done that.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

Rosalie B. wrote:

Hawk Channel isn't an anchorage. One of the problems for us is that
there aren't any reasonable anchorages for a deeper draft boat (5 feet
or over) where we would naturally need them.

Hawk Channel is the area between the offshore reefs and the various
islands in the Keys. It is about 160 miles long by road. There are
only a few places where one can get to the other side of the Keys, and
between Miami and Marathon there are almost no protected places to
anchor on the ocean side except behind either Rodriguez Key or
Tavernier and those don't usually come at a good time for a day's
sail.

I just looked at my logs, and the distance from Marathon to Hurricane
Harbor near Miami is 94 nm.

There are anchorages (like New Found Harbor) farther south on the way
to Key West.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote:

Tom ,, let's see if I can make this clear. In the first posting, Skip
talks about a channel [Hawk Channel] he
had to deal with that is according to him very narrow ..

This posting is followed by Wilbur, saying he knows the channel and Wilbur
calls Skip
a liar and writes ..

"Hawk Channel is anything but narrow. You obviously weren't even IN Hawk
Channel if you make such a stupid claim. For everybody's information, Hawk
Channel is anything from three to five miles wide the entire way from
Miami
to Key West"

So Skip calls Wilbur a non cruiser and writes "As before, I invite you to
tell us of where you've cruised in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it...".

Like most folks on this newsgroup, I have followed Skip's adventures. His
build, sinking, repair, and then his trip up
the coast, a few medical and mental issues,, and now his trip down the
coast...

My input,, Skip hasn't really gone Cruising yet. He has done some coastal
sailing, but not really gone off, over the
horizon .. and that is what I feel is a true Cruiser.

I don't really agree with this and I think it is an artificial
distinction. If we agree then only people who qualify for full
membership in the SSCA (I think it is 1500 miles without stopping of
something of the sort) or delivery skippers who are not in the ICW or
coastal cruising would be cruisers. I don't think being a delivery
skipper qualifies, even though some of them certainly go off over the
horizon. We wouldn't qualify because we do not go offshore for more
than about 36 hours max. Bob says it is because I'm chicken, and I
suppose I am, but maybe that is because I am exercising good judgment
about what is appropriate for us.

You can have your definition - no one can keep you from doing that.
But we don't have to agree.

I said what my definition was - someone who lives on the boat (by
which I mean more than a weekend or even a couple of weeks - whether
or not they have a house) and moves the boat from place to place (no
marina queens)

The thing about coastal sailing is - you really need MORE skill to do
it and not less. Out in the ocean it is mostly a matter of weather,
and watches with nothing much to hit, and in a lot of places, nothing
much to hit you.

I don't think Skip can rely on his experience living on his boat and doing
some coastal sailing as an answer to
someone who questions his veracity about a certain channel. My feeling is
until he actually goes off on an open
ocean passage, until he sets out for that island over the horizon, and
then
returns, or at the very least accomplishes
some trip that is more than a day sail, then he must answer the question
with facts, his experience in the channel,
etc rather than to say "We're out doing it".

He has been out for more than a day - that's how he got into trouble
in the first place. And I think it also counts as to whether someone
is heading out there even if they haven't gone yet. Planning and
getting ready is part of it.

For example, if the Pardey's
wrote that the channel was narrow, and someone
posted that it wasn't .. I would side with the Pardey's since they have
years of experience cruising to all kinds of different
anchorages.

The Pardey's have more experience than just about anyone, but it would
be more relevant as to whether they had experience with the particular
location under discussion. If they haven't been there, their
experience has no bearing on the issue and gives them no particular
standing.

Hawk Channel isn't an anchorage. One of the problems for us is that
there aren't any reasonable anchorages for a deeper draft boat (5 feet
or over) where we would naturally need them.

Hawk Channel is the area between the offshore reefs and the various
islands in the Keys. It is about 160 miles long by road. There are
only a few places where one can get to the other side of the Keys, and
between Miami and Marathon there are almost no protected places to
anchor on the ocean side except behind either Rodriguez Key or
Tavernier and those don't usually come at a good time for a day's
sail.

We have staged at Rodriguez for a jump across the Gulf Stream to the
Bahamas, leaving at night. Or rather leaving before dark so that I
can still see where we are going and can go through the gaps in the
reef. It is difficult to anchor there because the holding isn't too
good..

In my opinion, Skip needs to show me more in the way of sailing trips
before
he gets my "Yup, Skip knows what he is
talking about and Wilbur is a jerk"

I am a coastal sailor. If I wrote that the channel into Portland, Maine
was
XXXXX and someone said I was a liar,
I couldn't just say "I've been sailing longer than you so take that"..

I would need to explain. Tell why I though the channel was narrow. Maybe
for me it was. Maybe Skip is
cautious and what he thinks is narrow is a big open ocean to another.

I hope this clears up what I meant.

Now .. maybe Skip will explain the difference between his view of Hawk
Channel from Wilbur's view of the same channel.

He's already done that.



I guess we will agree to disagree.

Tally ho..

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in message
news:CAevj.20178$eg3.7989@trndny05...

In my opinion, Wibur makes some valid points.. he certainly seems to know
the channel he posted about.

Thank you, sir! Wilbur always knows of which he speaks. Some folks even
consider me prescient. But a lot of that is due to a logical mind that
easily discerns cause and effect. Face it, it hardly takes a genius to
realize that the likes of Joe and Skippy are heading for a fall. One can
tell they are possessed of little or no logic or common sense.


As for Skips "As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised
in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it..."

Like motoring up and down the ICW and going aground every other day is
cruising . . .


Skip is living part time on a boat, to call what he has been doing
"cruising" is a very big stretch.

Exactly correct, my good man!


Since his ill-fated launch, ship wreck, repair, rebuild, depression, ..
blah blah .. about all the cruising he has
done is along the coast, and even this was short hops with long anchor
hanging time in between.

And the fool can't even anchor without dragging most every time the wind
blows or the current changes.


It is February, very cold where I live, snow up the *&^%. If I was
"living" on my boat, "living" the
cruising lifestyle as many do .. I would be in the island, Bahama's,
Cuba.. who knows ... but I would
not be sitting at some "good guy let me use it" dock in FLA. That isn't
cruising, that is houseboat
time.

Perfect for Skippy as he obviously has a houseboat mentality. All the
systems that are constantly breaking down have little to do with sailing
but, rather, with turning a sailboat into a houseboat.


I enjoy Skips postings, in a weird way they are like a bad tv show with a
predictable plot, but I keep
watching anyway. He speaks of his life, health, relatives, etc... very
enjoyable. But .. not in any
way, or stretch of the imagination is what he has been doing ... CRUISING.


Right on, brother!


Wilbur Hubbard

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Feb 21, 12:35 pm, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:
... In my opinion, Skip needs to show me more in the way of sailing trips before
he gets my "Yup, Skip knows what he is
talking about and Wilbur is a jerk"

I am a coastal sailor. If I wrote that the channel into Portland, Maine was
XXXXX and someone said I was a liar,
I couldn't just say "I've been sailing longer than you so take that"..

I would need to explain. Tell why I though the channel was narrow. Maybe
for me it was. Maybe Skip is
cautious and what he thinks is narrow is a big open ocean to another.

I hope this clears up what I meant. ...

Cool. I don't have any first hand knowledge of the area, but I just
took a quick look at a chart and the official channel is less than
half a mile wide off Sea Grape Point and there are enough obstructions
that a not too weatherly or nimble boat with a 2 meter draft and an
inexpert crew might find it awkward to beat through the shoals. As
you say "narrow" depends on the context.

But, your definition of "cruiser" still doesn't smell right to me. I
make a distinction between expertise and action. A duffer beach
camping in a canoe yawl is cruising in my book even if he manages to
drown himself in cup of water. I've met some shockingly inept folks
out in the Pacific and I've made more than my share of bone headed
moves myself but we're still cruisers. I have to take a deep breath
and count down slowly from a pretty big number to keep from screaming
when I hear that Skip is getting a USCG license, but he's cruising.

-- Tom.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

wrote in message
...
I have to take a deep breath
and count down slowly from a pretty big number to keep from screaming
when I hear that Skip is getting a USCG license, but he's cruising.

-- Tom.


Skippy is obviously lying about his hours if he is serious about going for a
USCG license. Last time I looked he's gonna need a couple hundred hours
offshore and we all know he's got nowheres near that. Probably lacks the
hours nearshore and inshore as well. But I've demonstrated with facts that's
he's lied about several things so far so I wouldn't put it past him to
falsify his documented time at the helm in order to cheat his way into a
license that he's totally unqualified for . . .

But, the Coast Guard has issued a license to at least one admitted illegal
drug abuser so I guess they have lax standards when it comes to handing out
licenses to those who don't qualify or will be a danger to other boaters.

Wilbur Hubbard

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:59:14 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:

He speaks of his life, health, relatives, etc... very
enjoyable. But .. not in any
way, or stretch of the imagination is what he has been doing ... CRUISING.

I beg to differ: Your life, health and relatives do not go away just
because you are spending a lot of time on a boat and traveling around.
He's doing a lot more cruising than most people on this group, and
seems to be enjoying the challenges and telling us about it. Nothing
wrong with that, and a careful read can be educational.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:54 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:

Cruising in the way I think of it, is long trips across open ocean.

That is more correctly called "passage making", and *very* few people
actually do it to any great extent. I claim no special expertise but
find coastal cruising more interesting for the most part.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:27:25 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Skippy is obviously lying about his hours if he is serious about going for a
USCG license. Last time I looked he's gonna need a couple hundred hours
offshore and we all know he's got nowheres near that.

A near shore/inland OUPV requires no offshore experience at all, and
the USCG definition of offshore is anything outside the COLREGS line.
It *is* a requirement to document 360 days "underway" which means a
minimum of 4 hours per day actually moving, not anchored or tied to a
dock. Most people would need at least two or three years of cruising
to qualify under that definition, probably more.

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:27:25 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Skippy is obviously lying about his hours if he is serious about going for
a
USCG license. Last time I looked he's gonna need a couple hundred hours
offshore and we all know he's got nowheres near that.

A near shore/inland OUPV requires no offshore experience at all, and
the USCG definition of offshore is anything outside the COLREGS line.
It *is* a requirement to document 360 days "underway" which means a
minimum of 4 hours per day actually moving, not anchored or tied to a
dock. Most people would need at least two or three years of cruising
to qualify under that definition, probably more.



Something Neal obviously doesn't have... and never will.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Feb 21, 6:27 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

I have to take a deep breath
and count down slowly from a pretty big number to keep from screaming
when I hear that Skip is getting a USCG license, but he's cruising.

-- Tom.

Skippy is obviously lying about his hours if he is serious about going for a
USCG license. Last time I looked he's gonna need a couple hundred hours
offshore and we all know he's got nowheres near that. Probably lacks the
hours nearshore and inshore as well. But I've demonstrated with facts that's
he's lied about several things so far so I wouldn't put it past him to
falsify his documented time at the helm in order to cheat his way into a
license that he's totally unqualified for . . .

But, the Coast Guard has issued a license to at least one admitted illegal
drug abuser so I guess they have lax standards when it comes to handing out
licenses to those who don't qualify or will be a danger to other boaters.

Wilbur Hubbard


Dear Skip and Willlburr,

Get your terms correct. Skip......... Its not a "USCG Commercial
LIcnese" its called a "Master License" or "Operator" as in OUPV.

Its not called "offshore." The correct terms are "Oceans" or "Near
Coast" or "Beond the Boundry"

So what does Skip need to be a Captain?

RECENCY - (46 CFR 10.202(e)) - 90 days in the last 3 years.

OPERATOR OF UNINSPECTED PASSENGER VESSELS - (46 CFR 10.467)
A. Near Coastal - 360 days deck service INCLUDING
1. 90 days service on oceans or near coastal waters.
B. Inland - 360 days of deck service.
C. Great Lakes - 360 days deck service INCLUDING
1. 90 days service on Great Lakes

The Master 25-100 grt is about the same except slightly different
tests and more days sea service.

For ALL licenses under 200 grt a person can self certify their
qualifying Sea Service
(Small Vessel Sea Service Form [CG-719S]) if ya own a the vessel. In
other words Skip can say he has 360 days underway and fill out a form.
That is all the proof needed to qualify to sit for a paper and pencil
tests. Once you pass the tests you are a Captain !

I hope Skip learns to use the correct term when is one.

Bob

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:53:54 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in message
news:CAevj.20178$eg3.7989@trndny05...

In my opinion, Wibur makes some valid points.. he certainly seems to know
the channel he posted about.

Thank you, sir! Wilbur always knows of which he speaks. Some folks even
consider me prescient. But a lot of that is due to a logical mind that
easily discerns cause and effect. Face it, it hardly takes a genius to
realize that the likes of Joe and Skippy are heading for a fall. One can
tell they are possessed of little or no logic or common sense.

And Willie-boy certainly does have common sense! He stays home in the
trailer park and reads about sailing. No sense in getting all cold or
sunburned actually doing it when you can stay home and read about it.


As for Skips "As before, I invite you to tell us of where you've cruised
in the last
- say - year...We're out doing it..."

Like motoring up and down the ICW and going aground every other day is
cruising . . .

And, of course, staying home and reading a book qualifies you to talk
with someone that is actually on a boat?


Skip is living part time on a boat, to call what he has been doing
"cruising" is a very big stretch.

Exactly correct, my good man!


Since his ill-fated launch, ship wreck, repair, rebuild, depression, ..
blah blah .. about all the cruising he has
done is along the coast, and even this was short hops with long anchor
hanging time in between.

And the fool can't even anchor without dragging most every time the wind
blows or the current changes.


Some folks drag at anchor and others don't anchor at all, Except to
plant their butt in the EasyBoy and turn on the TV.

It is February, very cold where I live, snow up the *&^%. If I was
"living" on my boat, "living" the
cruising lifestyle as many do .. I would be in the island, Bahama's,
Cuba.. who knows ... but I would
not be sitting at some "good guy let me use it" dock in FLA. That isn't
cruising, that is houseboat
time.

Perfect for Skippy as he obviously has a houseboat mentality. All the
systems that are constantly breaking down have little to do with sailing
but, rather, with turning a sailboat into a houseboat.

House Boat mentality? From trailer trash down there in the trailer
park?


I enjoy Skips postings, in a weird way they are like a bad tv show with a
predictable plot, but I keep
watching anyway. He speaks of his life, health, relatives, etc... very
enjoyable. But .. not in any
way, or stretch of the imagination is what he has been doing ... CRUISING.

But a better man then Wilbur. Skip is out and about in his boat while
Willie stays home by the fire.

Wilbur Hubbard


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Feb 21, 6:27 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

I have to take a deep breath
and count down slowly from a pretty big number to keep from screaming
when I hear that Skip is getting a USCG license, but he's cruising.

-- Tom.

Skippy is obviously lying about his hours if he is serious about going
for a
USCG license. Last time I looked he's gonna need a couple hundred hours
offshore and we all know he's got nowheres near that. Probably lacks the
hours nearshore and inshore as well. But I've demonstrated with facts
that's
he's lied about several things so far so I wouldn't put it past him to
falsify his documented time at the helm in order to cheat his way into a
license that he's totally unqualified for . . .

bs crapola removed
Wilbur Hubbard


Dear Skip and Willlburr,

Get your terms correct. Skip......... Its not a "USCG Commercial
LIcnese" its called a "Master License" or "Operator" as in OUPV.

Its not called "offshore." The correct terms are "Oceans" or "Near
Coast" or "Beond the Boundry"

So what does Skip need to be a Captain?

RECENCY - (46 CFR 10.202(e)) - 90 days in the last 3 years.

OPERATOR OF UNINSPECTED PASSENGER VESSELS - (46 CFR 10.467)
A. Near Coastal - 360 days deck service INCLUDING
1. 90 days service on oceans or near coastal waters.
B. Inland - 360 days of deck service.
C. Great Lakes - 360 days deck service INCLUDING
1. 90 days service on Great Lakes

The Master 25-100 grt is about the same except slightly different
tests and more days sea service.

For ALL licenses under 200 grt a person can self certify their
qualifying Sea Service
(Small Vessel Sea Service Form [CG-719S]) if ya own a the vessel. In
other words Skip can say he has 360 days underway and fill out a form.
That is all the proof needed to qualify to sit for a paper and pencil
tests. Once you pass the tests you are a Captain !

I hope Skip learns to use the correct term when is one.

Bob


You left out one thing... Neal should simply F.O.A.D.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On 2008-02-22 08:49:56 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:

And Willie-boy snip

Bruce,

Willie really isn't someone who needs to be uncovered in this group. He
isn't worth the effort.

But I pay attention to what you say. When you waste your effort upon
him, it wastes my time.

I understand your urges to strike against him/it, but I would prefer
you leave him alone to fester in the area(s) of his own creation.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:44:57 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-02-22 08:49:56 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:

And Willie-boy snip

Bruce,

Willie really isn't someone who needs to be uncovered in this group. He
isn't worth the effort.

But I pay attention to what you say. When you waste your effort upon
him, it wastes my time.

I understand your urges to strike against him/it, but I would prefer
you leave him alone to fester in the area(s) of his own creation.

Yes, I agree with you and I really do try to ignore him (he Is so
immanently ignorable). I will try to do better in the future.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:44:57 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:


On 2008-02-22 08:49:56 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:


And Willie-boy snip

Bruce,

Willie really isn't someone who needs to be uncovered in this group. He
isn't worth the effort.

But I pay attention to what you say. When you waste your effort upon
him, it wastes my time.

I understand your urges to strike against him/it, but I would prefer
you leave him alone to fester in the area(s) of his own creation.


Yes, I agree with you and I really do try to ignore him (he Is so
immanently ignorable). I will try to do better in the future.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)


Good Man, Bruce...

February 17th - The key to success in sailing - Part One
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:43:47 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:54 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:

Cruising in the way I think of it, is long trips across open ocean.

That is more correctly called "passage making", and *very* few people
actually do it to any great extent. I claim no special expertise but
find coastal cruising more interesting for the most part.

I have crossed the Atlantic twice, on big ships, Queen Mary II for
one. I saw exactly one boxboat.

Casady