Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :) Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Well done Wendy. It sounds like you are off to a good start and aren't
'Jumping In Blindly'. As has been the regret of so many, to later suffer
from buyers remorse.

You seem to like the Tayana, even in the absense of somethings, like the nav
station. In this instance, I would say, go look at other Tayana's and see if
you don't find one with the features you want.. A good nav station is not a
minor short coming or something that can be 'knock together' easily..

You can bet, it you get one of these and it is missing some detail or
feature, the next time you step aboard a sister boat, you will see that
someone else has what you missed.

There are plenty of boat to look at and consider.. You don't seem to be in a
big rush, so don't.

The more boats you look at the better you will be at resisting the
temptation to 'settle' and the more expert you will become in the boat
designs you like.. Refine your tastes and shopping skills, while you
frustrate the Brokers..

Remember the brokers are working for the seller.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Well done Wendy. It sounds like you are off to a good start and aren't
'Jumping In Blindly'. As has been the regret of so many, to later suffer
from buyers remorse.

You seem to like the Tayana, even in the absense of somethings, like the nav
station. In this instance, I would say, go look at other Tayana's and see if
you don't find one with the features you want.. A good nav station is not a
minor short coming or something that can be 'knock together' easily..

You can bet, it you get one of these and it is missing some detail or
feature, the next time you step aboard a sister boat, you will see that
someone else has what you missed.

There are plenty of boat to look at and consider.. You don't seem to be in a
big rush, so don't.

The more boats you look at the better you will be at resisting the
temptation to 'settle' and the more expert you will become in the boat
designs you like.. Refine your tastes and shopping skills, while you
frustrate the Brokers..

Remember the brokers are working for the seller.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Wendy" wrote:

snip

She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS.
snip

She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :)

I look on the GPS as a portable item. In general, I would prefer to
buy my own electronics because those things age, and I think it would
be better to get new up-to-date ones rather than have to deal with
older stuff which may not have been properly maintained or have the
most modern features. We got this boat with nothing in the way of
electronics except an AM/FM radio/CD player with speakers in the
cockpit and an old VHF radio. We actually bought the GPS before we
bought the boat.

As for the nav station - Lots of people take them out of boats and put
in other kinds of things like hanging storage. We don't use ours for
navigation as we have all that on computers or in chart books.



grandma Rosalie

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Wendy" wrote:

snip

She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS.
snip

She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :)

I look on the GPS as a portable item. In general, I would prefer to
buy my own electronics because those things age, and I think it would
be better to get new up-to-date ones rather than have to deal with
older stuff which may not have been properly maintained or have the
most modern features. We got this boat with nothing in the way of
electronics except an AM/FM radio/CD player with speakers in the
cockpit and an old VHF radio. We actually bought the GPS before we
bought the boat.

As for the nav station - Lots of people take them out of boats and put
in other kinds of things like hanging storage. We don't use ours for
navigation as we have all that on computers or in chart books.



grandma Rosalie

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...
You seem to like the Tayana, even in the absense of somethings, like the
nav
station. In this instance, I would say, go look at other Tayana's and see
if
you don't find one with the features you want.. A good nav station is not
a
minor short coming or something that can be 'knock together' easily..

I did like the Tayana, but I have to say the more I think on it, the Cheoy
Lee looks more and more attractive. Her price leaves me with more than
enough money to fit her to my tastes, and while not as comfy as the Tayana,
she fits my (uninformed) idea of what I would like in a boat. Anyway, as I
am not buying immediately, I have put out feelers for crewing in the area,
as everyone has recommended I do. Doing so will give me not only the
opportunity to experience different boats, but the chance to make new
friends. One can never have too many friends :)

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...
You seem to like the Tayana, even in the absense of somethings, like the
nav
station. In this instance, I would say, go look at other Tayana's and see
if
you don't find one with the features you want.. A good nav station is not
a
minor short coming or something that can be 'knock together' easily..

I did like the Tayana, but I have to say the more I think on it, the Cheoy
Lee looks more and more attractive. Her price leaves me with more than
enough money to fit her to my tastes, and while not as comfy as the Tayana,
she fits my (uninformed) idea of what I would like in a boat. Anyway, as I
am not buying immediately, I have put out feelers for crewing in the area,
as everyone has recommended I do. Doing so will give me not only the
opportunity to experience different boats, but the chance to make new
friends. One can never have too many friends :)

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 03:48:05 GMT, "Wendy" wrote:

I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

snip
Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model:
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model:
Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model:
Tayana 37, 1982 Model:
snip

Wendy


Oddly enough Wendy, we're in the same boat, as it were. The way I approached it was to first buy
the two-volume Practical Sailor "Practical Boat Buying". It was/is a quick way to make a list of
boats that might fit your needs. In my case, engine access is a biggie. I also read all the boat
reviews I come across.

The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants". (Works well when buying
a house too!)

My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)
2. Good engine access
3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)
4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)
5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

You get the idea.

Keep us posted with your progress...good luck.
Norm

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 03:48:05 GMT, "Wendy" wrote:

I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

snip
Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model:
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model:
Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model:
Tayana 37, 1982 Model:
snip

Wendy


Oddly enough Wendy, we're in the same boat, as it were. The way I approached it was to first buy
the two-volume Practical Sailor "Practical Boat Buying". It was/is a quick way to make a list of
boats that might fit your needs. In my case, engine access is a biggie. I also read all the boat
reviews I come across.

The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants". (Works well when buying
a house too!)

My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)
2. Good engine access
3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)
4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)
5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

You get the idea.

Keep us posted with your progress...good luck.
Norm

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants". (Works well when buying
a house too!)

My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)
2. Good engine access
3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)
4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)
5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

You get the idea.

Keep us posted with your progress...good luck.
Norm

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.
2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch
4. Galley you can really cook in
5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft
6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet
7. Accessibility to machinery
8. Storage
9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

dv

--
-----
news_bucket e-mail address goes to a blackhole. Sorry. Send e-mail to
"respond" at the same domain.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants". (Works well when buying
a house too!)

My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)
2. Good engine access
3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)
4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)
5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

You get the idea.

Keep us posted with your progress...good luck.
Norm

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.
2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch
4. Galley you can really cook in
5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft
6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet
7. Accessibility to machinery
8. Storage
9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

dv

--
-----
news_bucket e-mail address goes to a blackhole. Sorry. Send e-mail to
"respond" at the same domain.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Dave Skolnick" wrote in message
news:7EfTb.14505$u_6.2617@lakeread04...
engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants".
My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)

The Cheoy Lee offers this, the Tayana does not

2. Good engine access

Both boats have this, though I have to give the nod to the Tayana, which has
a Perkins as opposed to the CL's Universal.

3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)

I'll live on her, so I'd prefer 36-37.

4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)

I'm with you here, I don't want to deal with two masts. The Tayana is a
cutter, which is probably easier to handle than the Cheoy Lee sloop.

5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

Same here. I'll give the edge to the Cheoy Lee in these departments.

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.

At 5'8" the Cheoy Lee is comfy; one would have to take care in sounds and
protected anchorages in the Western Caribbean.

2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch

Easily done with the Cheoy Lee, although she is a sloop.

4. Galley you can really cook in

I'd give the edge to the Tayana here, but either boat would do. The Cheoy
Lee would require the purchase and installation of a stove- another $1500?

5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft

Want comfy quarterberth at sea, both boats fit this requirement.

6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet

The Tayana; no contest here.

7. Accessibility to machinery

Both the same, though again the Perkins appeals.

8. Storage

Comparable, probably more on the Tayana.

9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

No nav station in the Tayana. No back support in the Cheoy Lee, but how
much time will I spend at the nav station? Probably not much.

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

My funds will probably come from an inheritance, though one never knows
about these things. I'm putting the house on the market this spring.

I didn't really mean this mail to be a rebuttal of the points the two of you
brought up, but more of a personal consideration of these points. I do like
the approach you take as concerns needs and wants. In that vein, not
necessarily in order of importance:

1. Visual appeal, from a personal standpoint. I want to fall in love again
everytime I see my boat.
2. Sailability- she should be forgiving, but a good performer easily taken
out for an afternoon or a month.
3. Nav station upgradeable with my personal electronic choices. As a pilot
this is important to me.
4. 35' minimum as I will live aboard; cutter or sloop rigged.
5. Capable of transatlantic/circumnavigation.

Seems like I just described the new Island Packet 37 I noticed this weekend
for sale. For $250,000 bare. sigh.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Dave Skolnick" wrote in message
news:7EfTb.14505$u_6.2617@lakeread04...
engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants".
My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)

The Cheoy Lee offers this, the Tayana does not

2. Good engine access

Both boats have this, though I have to give the nod to the Tayana, which has
a Perkins as opposed to the CL's Universal.

3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)

I'll live on her, so I'd prefer 36-37.

4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)

I'm with you here, I don't want to deal with two masts. The Tayana is a
cutter, which is probably easier to handle than the Cheoy Lee sloop.

5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

Same here. I'll give the edge to the Cheoy Lee in these departments.

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.

At 5'8" the Cheoy Lee is comfy; one would have to take care in sounds and
protected anchorages in the Western Caribbean.

2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch

Easily done with the Cheoy Lee, although she is a sloop.

4. Galley you can really cook in

I'd give the edge to the Tayana here, but either boat would do. The Cheoy
Lee would require the purchase and installation of a stove- another $1500?

5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft

Want comfy quarterberth at sea, both boats fit this requirement.

6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet

The Tayana; no contest here.

7. Accessibility to machinery

Both the same, though again the Perkins appeals.

8. Storage

Comparable, probably more on the Tayana.

9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

No nav station in the Tayana. No back support in the Cheoy Lee, but how
much time will I spend at the nav station? Probably not much.

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

My funds will probably come from an inheritance, though one never knows
about these things. I'm putting the house on the market this spring.

I didn't really mean this mail to be a rebuttal of the points the two of you
brought up, but more of a personal consideration of these points. I do like
the approach you take as concerns needs and wants. In that vein, not
necessarily in order of importance:

1. Visual appeal, from a personal standpoint. I want to fall in love again
everytime I see my boat.
2. Sailability- she should be forgiving, but a good performer easily taken
out for an afternoon or a month.
3. Nav station upgradeable with my personal electronic choices. As a pilot
this is important to me.
4. 35' minimum as I will live aboard; cutter or sloop rigged.
5. Capable of transatlantic/circumnavigation.

Seems like I just described the new Island Packet 37 I noticed this weekend
for sale. For $250,000 bare. sigh.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana, except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The Tayana
starts top heavy.

The Cabo Rico 38 is also a bit top heavy.

All three of the boats look very nice, and any of the three would probably do
you very well for the kind of sailing you might actually like.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana, except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The Tayana
starts top heavy.

The Cabo Rico 38 is also a bit top heavy.

All three of the boats look very nice, and any of the three would probably do
you very well for the kind of sailing you might actually like.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

pretty boat.

As a side thought (that may be completely off), boat prices *seem* to have gone
up a bit in recent history after going rather flat to down something to a lot
of something in the previous 2 - 3 years (no buyers out there). I say "seems",
for as a friend pointed out to me the boats seen listed are those that are
currently for sale, and may be those boats no one has bought nor will buy
because of the price. Owners *may* be listing in hopes of a market recovery
that isn't there. I am also pretty sure the sailboat market will take a shot
in the shorts come next summer, as the economy starts to tank (the economy has
been artifically propped up to help the incumbants get reelected [duh, who
wudda thunk either political party would do such a thing?], which is likely to
be underway (though not yet reportable under the standard definitions of
"recession") by summertime, and falling even more so into the fall and winter.

Also, the market today for cruising type sailboats is baby boomer, who are all
now mid 40's to late 50's, and getting a bit more creaky physically. Sailbaot
brokers in Annapolis last fall were bitching they were lossing sales to
trawlers because of this. Wednesday I am helping a friend look at a well
regarded boat with an asking price of about 40% of what it might have been sold
for 4 years ago.

you can always pass up any particular good deal, for good deals come along all
the time.

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...units=Feet&che
cked_boats=970810&slim=broker&&hosturl=sealake&&yw o=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

pretty boat.

As a side thought (that may be completely off), boat prices *seem* to have gone
up a bit in recent history after going rather flat to down something to a lot
of something in the previous 2 - 3 years (no buyers out there). I say "seems",
for as a friend pointed out to me the boats seen listed are those that are
currently for sale, and may be those boats no one has bought nor will buy
because of the price. Owners *may* be listing in hopes of a market recovery
that isn't there. I am also pretty sure the sailboat market will take a shot
in the shorts come next summer, as the economy starts to tank (the economy has
been artifically propped up to help the incumbants get reelected [duh, who
wudda thunk either political party would do such a thing?], which is likely to
be underway (though not yet reportable under the standard definitions of
"recession") by summertime, and falling even more so into the fall and winter.

Also, the market today for cruising type sailboats is baby boomer, who are all
now mid 40's to late 50's, and getting a bit more creaky physically. Sailbaot
brokers in Annapolis last fall were bitching they were lossing sales to
trawlers because of this. Wednesday I am helping a friend look at a well
regarded boat with an asking price of about 40% of what it might have been sold
for 4 years ago.

you can always pass up any particular good deal, for good deals come along all
the time.

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...units=Feet&che
cked_boats=970810&slim=broker&&hosturl=sealake&&yw o=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Wendy wrote:
Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers!"

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Wendy wrote:
Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers!"

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

doug, it is a Cheoy Lee.

I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers!"

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

doug, it is a Cheoy Lee.

I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers!"

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers

The engine access is good- the cabinetwork does come apart. The genset
would be an upside-down thing, now that you mention it... I'll look into
that more this Saturday. Now, what's this I hear about taking up the teak
and epoxying down again, sans screws? Anyone know anything about that?

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Oh god. More numbers. I picked up a text on offshore design Saturday; I've
yet to look through it but I will do so this week. That should set some
things straight in my mind, and make me a more informed buyer.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers

The engine access is good- the cabinetwork does come apart. The genset
would be an upside-down thing, now that you mention it... I'll look into
that more this Saturday. Now, what's this I hear about taking up the teak
and epoxying down again, sans screws? Anyone know anything about that?

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Oh god. More numbers. I picked up a text on offshore design Saturday; I've
yet to look through it but I will do so this week. That should set some
things straight in my mind, and make me a more informed buyer.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Ok, I got intrigued and ran some numbers applying your above methodology to
three other boats (I'm in accounting, numbers interest me):

Pacific Seacraft 37 .38
Tayana 37 .30 (!!)
Cabo Rico 37 .37

Now, I am not a naval architect, but the people who designed the above
(well-respected) sea-going yachts are, and their numbers prompt me to ask
what you base your 40% number on. I'm not calling your assertion
questionable, I just want to know what I am missing here- help me out.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Ok, I got intrigued and ran some numbers applying your above methodology to
three other boats (I'm in accounting, numbers interest me):

Pacific Seacraft 37 .38
Tayana 37 .30 (!!)
Cabo Rico 37 .37

Now, I am not a naval architect, but the people who designed the above
(well-respected) sea-going yachts are, and their numbers prompt me to ask
what you base your 40% number on. I'm not calling your assertion
questionable, I just want to know what I am missing here- help me out.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Wendy wrote:

Ok, I got intrigued and ran some numbers applying your above methodology to
three other boats (I'm in accounting, numbers interest me):

Pacific Seacraft 37 .38
Tayana 37 .30 (!!)
Cabo Rico 37 .37

Now, I am not a naval architect, but the people who designed the above
(well-respected) sea-going yachts are, and their numbers prompt me to ask
what you base your 40% number on. I'm not calling your assertion
questionable, I just want to know what I am missing here- help me out.


There are a lot of numbers and B/D is probably going to be lower
on heavy displacement boats - like the ones you are looking at.
More useful will probably be Displacment to Waterline Length,
Motion Comfort Ratio, and Capsize Ratio.

Looking at my notes, a Catalina 30 we looked at had a B/D of .41,
a D/Wl of 291.4, a Comfort ratio of 24.8, and a Capsize ratio of
1.99. The Crealock 37 we looked at was .383, 344, 34.3, and 1.7
respectivly.

It's important to remember that these numbers will only give you
a suggestion of how a boat will perform. In reality there are a
lot of factors that go into performance that these numbers can't
account for.

Cindy

--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

Wendy wrote:

Ok, I got intrigued and ran some numbers applying your above methodology to
three other boats (I'm in accounting, numbers interest me):

Pacific Seacraft 37 .38
Tayana 37 .30 (!!)
Cabo Rico 37 .37

Now, I am not a naval architect, but the people who designed the above
(well-respected) sea-going yachts are, and their numbers prompt me to ask
what you base your 40% number on. I'm not calling your assertion
questionable, I just want to know what I am missing here- help me out.


There are a lot of numbers and B/D is probably going to be lower
on heavy displacement boats - like the ones you are looking at.
More useful will probably be Displacment to Waterline Length,
Motion Comfort Ratio, and Capsize Ratio.

Looking at my notes, a Catalina 30 we looked at had a B/D of .41,
a D/Wl of 291.4, a Comfort ratio of 24.8, and a Capsize ratio of
1.99. The Crealock 37 we looked at was .383, 344, 34.3, and 1.7
respectivly.

It's important to remember that these numbers will only give you
a suggestion of how a boat will perform. In reality there are a
lot of factors that go into performance that these numbers can't
account for.

Cindy

--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
It's important to remember that these numbers will only give you
a suggestion of how a boat will perform. In reality there are a
lot of factors that go into performance that these numbers can't
account for.

Yes, I understand this concept. I think it's probably safe to say that any
one number in and of itself is almost meaningless; these figures probably
become important through their interrelationship- the old "whole is greater
than the parts" idea. Sailboat gestalt, if you will :) A familiarity with
the basic concepts of aerodynamics is essential to flight, but one need not
be able to design a wing in order to understand how it works. I strongly
suspect that the same principle applies to nautical design and operation.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
It's important to remember that these numbers will only give you
a suggestion of how a boat will perform. In reality there are a
lot of factors that go into performance that these numbers can't
account for.

Yes, I understand this concept. I think it's probably safe to say that any
one number in and of itself is almost meaningless; these figures probably
become important through their interrelationship- the old "whole is greater
than the parts" idea. Sailboat gestalt, if you will :) A familiarity with
the basic concepts of aerodynamics is essential to flight, but one need not
be able to design a wing in order to understand how it works. I strongly
suspect that the same principle applies to nautical design and operation.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

Interestingly and due to the displacment weight vs. volume, the Tayana
will carry more load while the CL will be a better boat in light and
flukey conditions and when 'light'. The CL will have better
acceleration than the TY37; but, the TY37 will definitely carry more
stores and still be able to sail on her design waterline. .
The CL at 16.5K lb. when loaded with a normal crusing 'load' will be
deeper in the water and hence will affect sailing performance more. The
TY37 at 22.5K lb will not depress the water line as much hence will
retain her sailing characteristics to a better extent .... plus the
motion comfort of the TY 37 is 25% better. The caveat is that some
sailors puke more with a faster reacting boats and some puke faster
with slower period boat. The CL having a faster roll period, the TY37
slower.
The CL will not need to be reefed as frequently as the TY37 as the CL
SA/D is lower, meaning a more easily driven hull. But when fully laden
those numbers should drastically shift in favor of the TY37.

So, your reply about the CL being a better passage boat will only be
true at the end of the passage when all food, fuel, etc. is used up.
Heavily loaded at the beginning of a passaage the CL will be very deep
(comparitively) in the water and wont perform as well as unladen...
and will always be slower. The TY37 will stay more 'consistent'.

Its not impossible to add a ton or two of 'stores' when voyaging, ....
added equipment, emergency food/equip, accumulated junk, rocks, shells,
funny hats, booze, etc.

As far as the TY being top-heay .... sometimes true and sometimes not
..... as it depends on the arrangement of the (teak) interior, teak
deck or not, wooden spars or aluminum and amount of teak that the
original owner specified or omitted topsides. Remember that TY37s are
'semi-custom' boats and the original purchaser had a lot of influence
on the final displacement 'loading' of the boat.

For comparisons of the 'numbers'
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html go to part 1.

;-)

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

Interestingly and due to the displacment weight vs. volume, the Tayana
will carry more load while the CL will be a better boat in light and
flukey conditions and when 'light'. The CL will have better
acceleration than the TY37; but, the TY37 will definitely carry more
stores and still be able to sail on her design waterline. .
The CL at 16.5K lb. when loaded with a normal crusing 'load' will be
deeper in the water and hence will affect sailing performance more. The
TY37 at 22.5K lb will not depress the water line as much hence will
retain her sailing characteristics to a better extent .... plus the
motion comfort of the TY 37 is 25% better. The caveat is that some
sailors puke more with a faster reacting boats and some puke faster
with slower period boat. The CL having a faster roll period, the TY37
slower.
The CL will not need to be reefed as frequently as the TY37 as the CL
SA/D is lower, meaning a more easily driven hull. But when fully laden
those numbers should drastically shift in favor of the TY37.

So, your reply about the CL being a better passage boat will only be
true at the end of the passage when all food, fuel, etc. is used up.
Heavily loaded at the beginning of a passaage the CL will be very deep
(comparitively) in the water and wont perform as well as unladen...
and will always be slower. The TY37 will stay more 'consistent'.

Its not impossible to add a ton or two of 'stores' when voyaging, ....
added equipment, emergency food/equip, accumulated junk, rocks, shells,
funny hats, booze, etc.

As far as the TY being top-heay .... sometimes true and sometimes not
..... as it depends on the arrangement of the (teak) interior, teak
deck or not, wooden spars or aluminum and amount of teak that the
original owner specified or omitted topsides. Remember that TY37s are
'semi-custom' boats and the original purchaser had a lot of influence
on the final displacement 'loading' of the boat.

For comparisons of the 'numbers'
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html go to part 1.

;-)

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message ...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :) Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message ...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :) Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

The underlayment of teak decks on Tayanas is built up of softwood
squares individually isolated by dams of polyester. If such
underlayment does get wet it usually doesnt not spread accross the
whole deck as would be the case with ''sheets' of core filler.
Not that you cant get a soggy deck on a Tayana; but, if you do the
damage wont be as catastrophic as would a deck with continuous
underlayment filler. Teak deck maintenance isnt all that bad if you
kkep up a gentle and consistent regime of maintenance. Hell, I bet you
expend more time scrubbing a glass deck than a teak deck owner does in
periodically looking for loose bungs.

Give me a teak deck anytime. So what if it makes the boat a bit more
top heavy, **nothing** is this world has the non-dkid ability of bare
teak.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

The underlayment of teak decks on Tayanas is built up of softwood
squares individually isolated by dams of polyester. If such
underlayment does get wet it usually doesnt not spread accross the
whole deck as would be the case with ''sheets' of core filler.
Not that you cant get a soggy deck on a Tayana; but, if you do the
damage wont be as catastrophic as would a deck with continuous
underlayment filler. Teak deck maintenance isnt all that bad if you
kkep up a gentle and consistent regime of maintenance. Hell, I bet you
expend more time scrubbing a glass deck than a teak deck owner does in
periodically looking for loose bungs.

Give me a teak deck anytime. So what if it makes the boat a bit more
top heavy, **nothing** is this world has the non-dkid ability of bare
teak.

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

I state again, when you get serious about the purchase of a particular
design .... go to the owners groups located on the web, etc.
Most of these owners groups have periodic rendezvous, etc. Thse owners
groups are usually open to 'prospective' owners and may invite you to a
rendevous or two. That way you will be able to really 'kick some tires'
and maybe get a sail or two in (the usual entry fee is a covered dish).

Also most 'good' boats are sold (quickly) though such owners groups.
Its the boats that dont move quick that get shunted off to 'brokers'
..... with added commission fees, etc.





In article , Eric
wrote:

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :) Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

I state again, when you get serious about the purchase of a particular
design .... go to the owners groups located on the web, etc.
Most of these owners groups have periodic rendezvous, etc. Thse owners
groups are usually open to 'prospective' owners and may invite you to a
rendevous or two. That way you will be able to really 'kick some tires'
and maybe get a sail or two in (the usual entry fee is a covered dish).

Also most 'good' boats are sold (quickly) though such owners groups.
Its the boats that dont move quick that get shunted off to 'brokers'
..... with added commission fees, etc.





In article , Eric
wrote:

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that :) Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

Looked today ( Boat Choices)
 

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

(very good stuff snipped)

Thanks loads! That's the sort of information it is nice to have, yet it
isn't readily apparent.

I'm with you on the booze weight :)

Wendy