"DSK" wrote in message
.. .

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers

The engine access is good- the cabinetwork does come apart. The genset
would be an upside-down thing, now that you mention it... I'll look into
that more this Saturday. Now, what's this I hear about taking up the teak
and epoxying down again, sans screws? Anyone know anything about that?

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Oh god. More numbers. I picked up a text on offshore design Saturday; I've
yet to look through it but I will do so this week. That should set some
things straight in my mind, and make me a more informed buyer.

Wendy

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:41:02 -0600, "Wendy"
wrote:


The engine access is good- the cabinetwork does come apart. The genset
would be an upside-down thing, now that you mention it... I'll look into
that more this Saturday. Now, what's this I hear about taking up the teak
and epoxying down again, sans screws? Anyone know anything about that?

That is frequently the case with teak screwed into fiberglass:
accidents waiting to happen. Teak is very nice to walk on...on other
people's boats G. Me, I get the same effect from a reasonable
substrate and a handful of sand. The fewer holes through or into most
decks, the better, I think, and teak does add weight where you don't
want it.

Even in the Great Lakes, where wear and tear on surfaces is arguably
less (excepting the freeze-thaw expansion problems on exposed decks in
winter), I see the evidence of former teak decking frequently.
Expensive to tear out and refinish, but not as expensive as keeping it
in, at least for some. Your mileage, etc...

Looks nice, but I don't have the crew of "Master and Commander" to
keep it dry and clean.

R.

I get the same effect from a reasonable
substrate and a handful of sand.

sand makes for one *mighty* RUFF non-skid (think 3M 50 grit sandpaper). Tends
to be tough on knees, ankles, elbows, hands, seats of the pants, swimsuits,
etc.

I get the same effect from a reasonable
substrate and a handful of sand.

sand makes for one *mighty* RUFF non-skid (think 3M 50 grit sandpaper). Tends
to be tough on knees, ankles, elbows, hands, seats of the pants, swimsuits,
etc.

wrote:

Looks nice, but I don't have the crew of "Master and Commander" to
keep it dry and clean.

There are two basic problems with teak decks. The first has to do
with boat builders who add teak decks as an afterthought to make
boats look "salty", and the second is owners who don't care for
them correctly. Of course the worst is a combination of the two.

A teak deck of proper thickness, properly installed with the
right screws, of the right length, spaced correctly, over a
properly built subdeck should easily last for 20 years or more
with few or no problems. Did some builders do it this way? Of
course. Did other builders skimp? Unfortunately, far too often.
How do you tell? Go to the owners groups and see how often people
are replacing their decks. Not to be a killjoy, but Cheoy Lee
would be one I would look at very carefully.

The other side of the issue is maintenance. We looked at a 30
year old boat where it seemed the only thing the owner properly
maintained was the teak deck. We looked at other boats where it
appeared that the owners had been keeping them clean with brillo
pads! They were totally ruined. Teak decks can die from too much
attention as quickly as from too little. Keep your caulk in good
shape, keep your bungs tight, mop it gently with clean salt water
and you should be happy. Use a deck brush or a belt sander or
harsh chemicals and you'll kill it quick.

Yes, they can be hot. This can be made worse by sanding or teak
treatments that take away the silver color. Wetting them down
with salt water will keep them cool and also keep mildew away.

(Actually, what's hot is the stupid black-anodized headsail
track! Ouch!)

Yes, they are heavy. The boat should be designed for them.

Decks are not supposed to leak - regardless of the type. Choosing
a boat with a teak deck is more daunting than a cored fiberglass
deck. However, proper research and a really knowledgeable survey
can make it a lot simpler. Also, you should know that leakage and
rot problems are *not* exclusive to teak decks.

Once you've weighed the cost, it comes down to what you prefer.
If you like the look and feel of teak decks, and you don't mind a
little additional work, go for it! If you don't like that sort of
thing, there's a world of fiberglass decks just waiting for you.

Cindy


--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:23:22 GMT, Cindy Ballreich

Once you've weighed the cost, it comes down to what you prefer.
If you like the look and feel of teak decks, and you don't mind a
little additional work, go for it! If you don't like that sort of
thing, there's a world of fiberglass decks just waiting for you.

Cindy

Very true, and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. I think if
you luck out or have the knowledge to preserve/repair/maintain a teak
deck, it's a Good Thing. But most don't, and don't have the time to
add to the already long list of Boat Stuff We Must Get To Before
Actually Sailing....

Maybe the solution is to learn how to INSTALL a teck deck, and then do
it yourself. At least then the blame and the credit fall where they
should G

R.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:23:22 GMT, Cindy Ballreich

Once you've weighed the cost, it comes down to what you prefer.
If you like the look and feel of teak decks, and you don't mind a
little additional work, go for it! If you don't like that sort of
thing, there's a world of fiberglass decks just waiting for you.

Cindy

Very true, and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. I think if
you luck out or have the knowledge to preserve/repair/maintain a teak
deck, it's a Good Thing. But most don't, and don't have the time to
add to the already long list of Boat Stuff We Must Get To Before
Actually Sailing....

Maybe the solution is to learn how to INSTALL a teck deck, and then do
it yourself. At least then the blame and the credit fall where they
should G

R.

wrote:

Looks nice, but I don't have the crew of "Master and Commander" to
keep it dry and clean.

There are two basic problems with teak decks. The first has to do
with boat builders who add teak decks as an afterthought to make
boats look "salty", and the second is owners who don't care for
them correctly. Of course the worst is a combination of the two.

A teak deck of proper thickness, properly installed with the
right screws, of the right length, spaced correctly, over a
properly built subdeck should easily last for 20 years or more
with few or no problems. Did some builders do it this way? Of
course. Did other builders skimp? Unfortunately, far too often.
How do you tell? Go to the owners groups and see how often people
are replacing their decks. Not to be a killjoy, but Cheoy Lee
would be one I would look at very carefully.

The other side of the issue is maintenance. We looked at a 30
year old boat where it seemed the only thing the owner properly
maintained was the teak deck. We looked at other boats where it
appeared that the owners had been keeping them clean with brillo
pads! They were totally ruined. Teak decks can die from too much
attention as quickly as from too little. Keep your caulk in good
shape, keep your bungs tight, mop it gently with clean salt water
and you should be happy. Use a deck brush or a belt sander or
harsh chemicals and you'll kill it quick.

Yes, they can be hot. This can be made worse by sanding or teak
treatments that take away the silver color. Wetting them down
with salt water will keep them cool and also keep mildew away.

(Actually, what's hot is the stupid black-anodized headsail
track! Ouch!)

Yes, they are heavy. The boat should be designed for them.

Decks are not supposed to leak - regardless of the type. Choosing
a boat with a teak deck is more daunting than a cored fiberglass
deck. However, proper research and a really knowledgeable survey
can make it a lot simpler. Also, you should know that leakage and
rot problems are *not* exclusive to teak decks.

Once you've weighed the cost, it comes down to what you prefer.
If you like the look and feel of teak decks, and you don't mind a
little additional work, go for it! If you don't like that sort of
thing, there's a world of fiberglass decks just waiting for you.

Cindy


--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:41:02 -0600, "Wendy"
wrote:


The engine access is good- the cabinetwork does come apart. The genset
would be an upside-down thing, now that you mention it... I'll look into
that more this Saturday. Now, what's this I hear about taking up the teak
and epoxying down again, sans screws? Anyone know anything about that?

That is frequently the case with teak screwed into fiberglass:
accidents waiting to happen. Teak is very nice to walk on...on other
people's boats G. Me, I get the same effect from a reasonable
substrate and a handful of sand. The fewer holes through or into most
decks, the better, I think, and teak does add weight where you don't
want it.

Even in the Great Lakes, where wear and tear on surfaces is arguably
less (excepting the freeze-thaw expansion problems on exposed decks in
winter), I see the evidence of former teak decking frequently.
Expensive to tear out and refinish, but not as expensive as keeping it
in, at least for some. Your mileage, etc...

Looks nice, but I don't have the crew of "Master and Commander" to
keep it dry and clean.

R.