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#31
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
Larry wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in news the impedance of the switching power supply appears as a dead short to ground, tripping the GFI type breaker. There's nothing wrong with the circuit, it's just a characteristic of the supply type. The input of any switching power supply is merely a full wave bridge rectifier and some LARGE electrolytic capacitors, which are what causes the huge surge when you plug them in...charging those caps. They use large caps for a reason.....to reduce the effects of powerline pulses, especially OFF pulses that blink your lights. The large caps can hold up the output DC for several hundred milliseconds during those brief power "blinks". Unfortunately, the idiots are trying to see how few parts they can make them out of so leave out any surge-reducing varistors or even low value surge resistors from the primary circuit that would stop the huge pulse and plug-in-arcing. Larry Wouldn't adding something like a starting capacitor fix that? |
#32
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
cavelamb himself wrote in
: Wouldn't adding something like a starting capacitor fix that? No, the circuit is just too simple...4 diodes in a bridge, caps across the DC output of the rectifiers about 160VDC to power the power MOSFET switching transistors running at 100 Khz or so. The custom IC made to run all this measures the output DC volts and varies the pulse width fed to the power transistors to regulate the voltage. There's nothing analog about it. The MOSFETS are either OFF, no heat generated or SATURATED, very little heat generated because they are nearly a short at saturation...full on. The DC output comes from another set of higher frequency rectifiers hooked to a high frequency toroid transformer, sometimes with more than one secondary winding like the DC power supply in your desktop computer to get different voltages and polarities.... When the load increases and output voltage TRIES to drop, the IC senses this very fast and widens the pulse with to the switching transistors, pulling the voltage back up with more power to the toroid transformer. If the line voltage changes, the output also tries to change, causing the sensing of the IC to vary the pulse width in the appropriate direction to compensate. Some switching power supplies, like those very light wall bricks that run and charge your cellphones, pocket PCs, and laptop computers will tolerate a voltage change so huge you don't even have to worry about what line voltage you're plugging it into from 80VAC to 280VAC! If you plug it into 115 in USA, the pulse width is wider than if you plug it into 240 in Europe. It doesn't care what frequency because we're just going to directly rectify AC into DC and feed it to the big input caps to store for the switchers. What's hilarious in all this is someone with a very wide input Switching powersupply plugging it into some kind of "SURGE PROTECTOR" to keep any power line surges from "damaging" it. The switcher could care less! If a big pulse of voltage comes into it, the huge input caps just absorb it, turning the pulse into more power for the switchers to use. Hell, if you surge it at 300V that's well within "normal" peak voltage on the 240VAC system it was also designed for! The surge protector IS the power supply itself! It's output is steady as a rock until the big input filter caps drop below about 70VDC...on power down. Switchers are neat. Larry -- Merry Christmas! http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_NhFS4xEE |
#33
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:26:58 -0500, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote: "Richard Casady" wrote Mine is a digital with a ten amp fuse on the Amp function. Fluke 87 as a matter of fact. All the professional heating and cooling guys, and the appliance repairman, seem to have one like it. That's well and good, but an ammeter with a 10A fuse may not be very helpful in a circuit that's tripping a 15A breaker. I think I'd start by removing all the power and using the 87's ohm meter function. A good digital you can plug it into a wall socket with it on Ohms without damage. Casady |
#34
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:59:12 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote: On Dec 9, 8:16 pm, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:19:29 -0800, Peter Bennett wrote: More details would be useful. As it stands, your description doesn't make sense to me, as the common North American 30 amp shore power service _is_ 110 volts. Do you mean that the boat has a 30 amp power inlet and shore power cord, but the dock only has a household-style 15 amp/110V outlet? There is also the twenty amp outlet. The plug's blades are at ninety degrees. Only such plugs I have ever seen were for window type air conditioners. They make the outlets with the 'T' shaped holes to take both those and the fifteen amp ones with the parallel blades. Casady Here in Canada we often use those 'horizontal pin' plugs for 230 volts. In our garage, for example, we have 115 volt vertical pin outlets and a 230 volt so we can plug in both types of tools. Both are breakered at 15 amps. On a workshop workbench we also have both. Come to think of it, the 20 Amp ones have one blade each way, and the two blade horizontal are 220 in the US as well. I think. Been a while since I last wired any outlets, but think that I now have it right. Casady |
#35
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
"Richard Casady" wrote
an ammeter with a 10A fuse may not be very helpful in a circuit that's tripping a 15A breaker A good digital you can plug it into a wall socket with it on Ohms without damage. I'll keep that in mind in case I ever want to try it. My point is that, at best, a current measurement in this case is only going to tell you what you already know. |
#36
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:47:59 -0500, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote: "Richard Casady" wrote an ammeter with a 10A fuse may not be very helpful in a circuit that's tripping a 15A breaker A good digital you can plug it into a wall socket with it on Ohms without damage. I'll keep that in mind in case I ever want to try it. It isn't something you try. It's always carelessness. It's nice that it survives a dumb move My point is that, at best, a current measurement in this case is only going to tell you what you already know. That is true. At one time you could buy a shunt to extend the range on a meter. I bet they still sell them. Casady |
#37
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Troubles with shorepower
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:02:24 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote: That is true. At one time you could buy a shunt to extend the range on a meter. I bet they still sell them. Current shunts are widely available from a number of sources: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ac+current+shunts Or you can make your own: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadge...ts/shunts.html |
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