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New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
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New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 24, 5:12 pm, wrote:
http://science.slashdot.org/science/.../2150220.shtml Hello Everyone: There is no such thing as a sneaker or rogue wave or what every ya call them. Willburr, will you please explain fundamental ocean precess to these readers? Bob |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
In article
, Bob wrote: On Nov 24, 5:12 pm, wrote: http://science.slashdot.org/science/.../2150220.shtml Hello Everyone: There is no such thing as a sneaker or rogue wave or what every ya call them. Willburr, will you please explain fundamental ocean precess to these readers? Bob Obviously, you have never navigated the Bering Sea in winter........ |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 25, 10:09 am, You wrote:
In article , Bob wrote: On Nov 24, 5:12 pm, wrote: Obviously, you have never navigated the Bering Sea in winter........ Hello You................. You are right. Never have "navigated" (plot course) and have not sailed my Freya up there, but I did stand watch and a bunch of other stuff. The first time was I set foot on the Bering was December 27, 1983. I spent a week at the Unisea (Dutch) waiting for the weather to break so the Padilla could get out. Got to do my first at sea transfer to get on my boat. How to scramble up the side of a boat in 20' seas? Humm, lets see... hands on the ropes not on the rungs... grab the ladder and don't stop... If I fall--I am dead. Check.... Try spending Christmas in the Dutch Unisea Inn :( Lots happened that season. Probably the worst was when a 300' Japanese F/T T-boned midships another Jap F/T. It sank in less than 5 minuets (80+/- crew). So I sat on the bridge listening to the different boats pulling bodies out of the water on 2182. Granted I only spent 82 days that winter on a relatively safe 150' longliner. The following summer was a lot nicer, there I spent 90 something days on a 80' highseas gillnetter. The fun didn't end there. Took a break in mid 80s then returned '87-'92. Called it quits and got a nice job on the beach. But that was just the Bering. Did get to go out as far as Adak and later Attu......... Uggggg. And after all that I still stand, with all my fingers, and say there are no such things as Rogue Waves.......... Uh..... I will agree that Rogue Beer certainly exists. Heck, im even a card carrying Citizen of the Rogue Nation. Funny thing is I use to see as many Rogue T-shirts in the Unisea bar as I did in Newport. I do agree there are some very big waves out there. But disagree with the connotation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connotation) of the term Rogue Wave. Humbly yours, Bob |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
In article
, Bob wrote: On Nov 25, 10:09 am, You wrote: In article , Bob wrote: On Nov 24, 5:12 pm, wrote: Obviously, you have never navigated the Bering Sea in winter........ Hello You................. You are right. Never have "navigated" (plot course) and have not sailed my Freya up there, but I did stand watch and a bunch of other stuff. The first time was I set foot on the Bering was December 27, 1983. I spent a week at the Unisea (Dutch) waiting for the weather to break so the Padilla could get out. Got to do my first at sea transfer to get on my boat. How to scramble up the side of a boat in 20' seas? Humm, lets see... hands on the ropes not on the rungs... grab the ladder and don't stop... If I fall--I am dead. Check.... Try spending Christmas in the Dutch Unisea Inn :( Lots happened that season. Probably the worst was when a 300' Japanese F/T T-boned midships another Jap F/T. It sank in less than 5 minuets (80+/- crew). So I sat on the bridge listening to the different boats pulling bodies out of the water on 2182. Granted I only spent 82 days that winter on a relatively safe 150' longliner. The following summer was a lot nicer, there I spent 90 something days on a 80' highseas gillnetter. The fun didn't end there. Took a break in mid 80s then returned '87-'92. Called it quits and got a nice job on the beach. But that was just the Bering. Did get to go out as far as Adak and later Attu......... Uggggg. And after all that I still stand, with all my fingers, and say there are no such things as Rogue Waves.......... Uh..... I will agree that Rogue Beer certainly exists. Heck, im even a card carrying Citizen of the Rogue Nation. Funny thing is I use to see as many Rogue T-shirts in the Unisea bar as I did in Newport. I do agree there are some very big waves out there. But disagree with the connotation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connotation) of the term Rogue Wave. Humbly yours, Bob Bob, spending one trip on the Bering Sea in winter doesn't make you the Xpert, you portray. Summertime in Bristol Bay doesn't count for squat. Also sitting in a Bar in Dutch doesn't qualify you as anything but a Bar Fly, christmas or not. Being a processor on 150' Longliner, only means your as good as the next Mexican on the slimeline. When you have 20 years of navigating the Bering in winter, in a Crabber, then come back and tell us all about, "How there is no such thing as a Rouge Wave". It happens, not often, but it happens. It is documented on film, in some of the footage shot, when filming the "Deadliest Catch". Standard Bering Sea weather, 40 Ft seas, 60 Knot winds, vessel is jogging into the prevailing sea, just to stay on the gear, and gets "Creamed" by a 80 footer, hitting from the Port Quarter, which rolls the vessel 75 degrees over and causes the Mains, Aux Gensets, to shut down from Low OIl Pressure, because the Oil Pickups on the engines are not designed to to run, when the engines are on their sides. Only one wave hits them on the Port Quarter, and the rest of the night, Sea State stays near the same, after the wave. NOW, if that isn't a "Rouge Wave", just what would you call it? Hmmmm....... The rest of the Story.... the crew spent the next hour getting the Mains and Aux, restarted, and getting the vessel back, Jogging into the seas, all the while getting slammed broadside, by the prevailing Sea. A lot of bruses, and stuff scattered all over the deck. No Dead, or seriously injured. Lost some Deck Gear, overboard as it wasn't lashed down with the ChainBinders wired in the locked position. There is a reason that you don't see many vessels navigating the Bering Sea in winter, unless they absolutly have to.... |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 26, 10:25 am, You wrote:
In article Bob, spending one trip on the Bering Sea in winter doesn't make you the Xpert, you portray. Hi there You: A couple things....... 1) It seems my memory is a bit sharper than yours. If you remember correctly.... Uh, maybe I should say simply say remember, we had this same conversation a few months ago the last time Rogue Waves surfaced. You did the same thing then as now: A) started with "if youve ever been in the Bering...." B) devalue my experience naming me a "bar fly", C) attempting to build your own credibility with a few sea stories. Maybe you should simply copy and past. It would be faster. 2) Begging your Saltyness. I'll end and say, to believe a huge anomalous wave is cast up by the hand of Neptunus Rex to smite hapless mariners is a somewhat outdated explanation. This simply puts boaters in the role of victim. A step in a helpful direction requires belief that a few really big waves are found at the 3rd SD (wings/tails) of some scatter plot. But that is not adequate either. I ask in all sincerity, as I did last time; Please list those items that create/contribute to the likelihood of "Rogue Waves." There is finally some really good information available that not only describe those seldom seen really big wave process, but will actually PREDICT the likelihood of an event. So my dear Saltyness what are those conditions and process? Or do you have only criticism and glory day stories? Gotta get back to work. My 2 hour library connection is running. Bob |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 26, 7:18 pm, Bob wrote:
snip Please list those items that create/contribute to the likelihood of "Rogue Waves." There is finally some really good information available that not only describe those seldom seen really big wave process, but will actually PREDICT the likelihood of an event. snip Bob Do you believe in these waves or not ? I can't tell. Todd |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
In article
, Bob wrote: Hi there You: A couple things....... 1) It seems my memory is a bit sharper than yours. If you remember correctly.... Uh, maybe I should say simply say remember, we had this same conversation a few months ago the last time Rogue Waves surfaced. You did the same thing then as now: A) started with "if youve ever been in the Bering...." B) devalue my experience naming me a "bar fly", C) attempting to build your own credibility with a few sea stories. Maybe you should simply copy and past. It would be faster. 2) Begging your Saltyness. I'll end and say, to believe a huge anomalous wave is cast up by the hand of Neptunus Rex to smite hapless mariners is a somewhat outdated explanation. This simply puts boaters in the role of victim. A step in a helpful direction requires belief that a few really big waves are found at the 3rd SD (wings/tails) of some scatter plot. But that is not adequate either. I ask in all sincerity, as I did last time; Please list those items that create/contribute to the likelihood of "Rogue Waves." There is finally some really good information available that not only describe those seldom seen really big wave process, but will actually PREDICT the likelihood of an event. So my dear Saltyness what are those conditions and process? Or do you have only criticism and glory day stories? Gotta get back to work. My 2 hour library connection is running. Bob I am not a Meteriologist, or a Climatologist, or a lot of other Scientific Ologists, but I have been a Mariner, on the Bering in winter. I have seen, with my own eyes, and lived to tell the tale. There are those of my brother Mariners, who have not lived to tell the tale. Rogue Waves DO exist. They have been documented on film, AND by Mariners, who have as I have, lived to tell the tale. You may not believe that they exist, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, and your experience, or lack thereof, only shows that you aren't a Creditable Source, of information on the question. When you see the damage done by this type of wave, like the Northland Marine Barge that had the first three stacks of containers, on the bow, Squashed FLAT by a single wave, while navigating between Nome, and Unalaska, southbound, then you begin to understand just what the issues are, for the question at hand. sonny, you have no idea, of what you speak........... |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 27, 10:45 am, You wrote:
sonny, you have no idea, of what you speak.......... Dear You: Roger knows what I Im talking about. To be clear........ yes I have seen some HUGE waves compared to the rest of the sets. Yes, there are unusually huge waves that are not like the rest at a spot and time. But there is nothing Roguish about them. THey happen. THey happen in certain places because of a certain set of events. SO I ask you again.... You, please list those conditions/events that create the really big wave that people regretably call Rogue. 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) Oh, the above is called a fill in the blank........ they are a little harder than muliple choice. But I think you cna handle it. bob |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:38 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote: ...please list those conditions/events that create the really big wave that people regretably call Rogue. ... bob Er...that would be a long wind fetch on an adverse current, I take it? Or a tsunami, no doubt. Brian W |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 27, 6:04 pm, Brian Whatcott wrote:
Er...that would be a long wind fetch on an adverse current, I take it? That certainly does create steep frequent waves. Sorta like a "washboard road. I think Rogue Waves are a little diffrent in that it is significanly larger and not seemingly having any predictable pattern. Thats what freak evevyone out about them. Or a tsunami, no doubt. No expert here. Never been in a real big tsunami. I went to a tidal wave part in the 80s on the Oregon coast. I thing it registerd a couple inches and the OSU Marine Science Center but what ive heard is its not noticable at sea. Just at the shore when the water disaperars, then returns....... Phuket, Cresent City, CA and AK in way early 1960s Okay here is one condition that creates Rogues waves....... take the Pacific. You have a huge Low in the Gulf of Alaska and another Low 3000 miles to the south and west. Both create long sea swells of diffrent duration and have thousand of miles to travel (fetch) untill they get to N 48 : Straights of Juan De****ya. You ve got local weather/ swells and then thoes swells from the big Lows way off just seem ot get in sink with a local normal swell all at the same place and same time that build to make a Hug "rogue wave" They all sorta stack on each other all at once......... then back to normal..... Thats probable the most well know cause. There are a few more. But I am sure that old salt who posted here named You will add a few more in the morning.. Bob Brian W |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
Bob wrote:
On Nov 27, 6:04 pm, Brian Whatcott wrote: Er...that would be a long wind fetch on an adverse current, I take it? That certainly does create steep frequent waves. Sorta like a "washboard road. I think Rogue Waves are a little diffrent in that it is significanly larger and not seemingly having any predictable pattern. Thats what freak evevyone out about them. Or a tsunami, no doubt. No expert here. Never been in a real big tsunami. I went to a tidal wave part in the 80s on the Oregon coast. I thing it registerd a couple inches and the OSU Marine Science Center but what ive heard is its not noticable at sea. Just at the shore when the water disaperars, then returns....... Phuket, Cresent City, CA and AK in way early 1960s Okay here is one condition that creates Rogues waves....... take the Pacific. You have a huge Low in the Gulf of Alaska and another Low 3000 miles to the south and west. Both create long sea swells of diffrent duration and have thousand of miles to travel (fetch) untill they get to N 48 : Straights of Juan De****ya. You ve got local weather/ swells and then thoes swells from the big Lows way off just seem ot get in sink with a local normal swell all at the same place and same time that build to make a Hug "rogue wave" They all sorta stack on each other all at once......... then back to normal..... Thats probable the most well know cause. There are a few more. But I am sure that old salt who posted here named You will add a few more in the morning.. Bob Brian W That you Wilbur? G |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:38 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote: On Nov 27, 10:45 am, You wrote: sonny, you have no idea, of what you speak.......... Dear You: Roger knows what I Im talking about. To be clear........ yes I have seen some HUGE waves compared to the rest of the sets. Yes, there are unusually huge waves that are not like the rest at a spot and time. But there is nothing Roguish about them. THey happen. THey happen in certain places because of a certain set of events. SO I ask you again.... You, please list those conditions/events that create the really big wave that people regretably call Rogue. 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) Oh, the above is called a fill in the blank........ they are a little harder than muliple choice. But I think you cna handle it. bob Try http://www.math.uio.no/~karstent/waves/index_en.html for a scientific discussion of "rogue waves". Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply) |
New Software Could Warn Sailors of Rogue Waves
On Nov 28, 12:18 am, Gordon wrote:
Bob wrote: On Nov 27, 6:04 pm, Brian Whatcott wrote: Er...that would be a long wind fetch on an adverse current, I take it? That certainly does create steep frequent waves. Sorta like a "washboard road. I think Rogue Waves are a little diffrent in that it is significanly larger and not seemingly having any predictable pattern. Thats what freak evevyone out about them. Or a tsunami, no doubt. No expert here. Never been in a real big tsunami. I went to a tidal wave part in the 80s on the Oregon coast. I thing it registerd a couple inches and the OSU Marine Science Center but what ive heard is its not noticable at sea. Just at the shore when the water disaperars, then returns....... Phuket, Cresent City, CA and AK in way early 1960s Okay here is one condition that creates Rogues waves....... take the Pacific. You have a huge Low in the Gulf of Alaska and another Low 3000 miles to the south and west. Both create long sea swells of diffrent duration and have thousand of miles to travel (fetch) untill they get to N 48 : Straights of Juan De****ya. You ve got local weather/ swells and then thoes swells from the big Lows way off just seem ot get in sink with a local normal swell all at the same place and same time that build to make a Hug "rogue wave" They all sorta stack on each other all at once......... then back to normal..... Thats probable the most well know cause. There are a few more. But I am sure that old salt who posted here named You will add a few more in the morning.. Bob Brian W That you Wilbur? Hi the Nope............ just me. But had finished a few pints of local brew with a couple OSU oceanography grad students last night. Now there was a wealth of info. and cheep too. Just add beer! Oh, but it gets better......... the beer was free! Rogue Brewery had some new Japanese brew début and was giving free pints away as a taste. ...... :) A couple months ago I was yaking with a coastie who drives the local 47' life boat. He had lots to say too! Lots of excellent ideas. Information is all over the place. Just got to be in a place that has an actual working bayfront or what others call a working harbor. Hang out with nothing but a bunch of sailboat yachties and its kinda of an incestuous group thing event. Right now every one here is geared up for the Dungeness crab opener. Lots of forklifts moving pots around. A few tourist take pictures. I do a few projects on my boat, drink free brew, and wait. Bob PS the bull dogs have rubber teeth, the cops wooden legs, and the jails are made of tin,.................... |
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