Power boaters and their wakes
 

As the original discussion has wandered a great deal, I'll start a new
one.

We're working our way down the ICW in order to miss Hatteras. We were
already in the Alligator-Pungo Canal when I overheard chatter on 16 to
the effect that a couple of power boaters had severely waked a couple
of sailboaters just before the turn into the canal.

The conversation I overheard had to do with something else, but
because it included a boat we'd become friendly with in an earlier
stop, I called to find out what was up.

The short story was that these two big boats had blown by without so
much as slowing down, let alone doing a slow pass, or even
acknowledging a hail. In two separate chatters, I'd heard two
different boats being taken to task; over the next while I learned
their names.

As those who bother to read my logs know, we've got Lydia's 82 year
old mother aboard with us. This provided a good opportunity to flex
some muscle. My comments (on 68 so as to not alert others as to what
was to come, but also not to tie up the hailing channel) to the other
boat we'd heard tell of this were to the effect that perhaps if I were
to warn them about the potential consequences of their behavior, it
might moderate. I did so (see below) but got no response. Follow up
with my friend included that likely not only had they heard, but,
certainly, the USCG had heard as well (they have been doing their
regular "get off this channel and take it to a working channel" bit
for those whose chatter goes beyond a couple of words or a single
exchange).

Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

We're off to Oriental next. As a side note to the above experience,
we were sailing for part of our time, and were quite stiff. So, when
overtakers would hail us, or, if nothing heard, I'd tell them
unilaterally, I assured them they could blast on by. They appreciated
that effort, too.

L8R

Skip

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Power boaters and their wakes
 

On 2007-11-09 07:50:07 -0500, Skip Gundlach said:

Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

Sounds like the perfect solution to the power boat problem. And it IS
a problem! We encounter them when we're out sailing -- seems like some
of them speed up just as they're going by us. I'm not sure if they're
trying to make a point ("Get out of my way, you fat, slow sailboat!")
or just want to see if they can swamp us.

But what REALLY scared me is when DH and I were out swimming in the
creek (unlike where I grew up, THIS creek has three marinas within
swimming distance of us) and power boats would dart out of the channel
to check us out, swimming along the shore. I was afraid that they'd
run over ME trying to see what DH was up to, or vice versa. Once
they'd determined that we were human swimmers, many of them would rev
up the engine to dart back into the channel. A wake is uncomfortable
in a sailboat -- dangerous to a swimmer. What's up with THAT?!

Ruby

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

I used to hang out the side of the boat with a camera to take their
picture sometimes.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.


When we were first in the ICW, it took us a little while to learn how
to do a good pass. When a clued-in power boater would ask us to slow
down so they could pass, I would be like "slow down - we're already
slower than paint drying", and we wouldn't go into neutral.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

In one way the Canal would have helped because I have an absolutely
terrible time with power boaters who think that they are doing us a
favor by going a long way away from us before they pass. In a canal,
they can't do that.

We're off to Oriental next. As a side note to the above experience,
we were sailing for part of our time, and were quite stiff. So, when
overtakers would hail us, or, if nothing heard, I'd tell them
unilaterally, I assured them they could blast on by. They appreciated
that effort, too.

Just incidentally, there's supposed to be a significant problem on the
ICW near Swansboro, but I expect you are going outside at Beaufort
(??)

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Nov 9, 11:58 am, Ruby Vee wrote:
On 2007-11-09 07:50:07 -0500, Skip Gundlach said:





Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

Sounds like the perfect solution to the power boat problem. And it IS
a problem! We encounter them when we're out sailing -- seems like some
of them speed up just as they're going by us. I'm not sure if they're
trying to make a point ("Get out of my way, you fat, slow sailboat!")
or just want to see if they can swamp us.

But what REALLY scared me is when DH and I were out swimming in the
creek (unlike where I grew up, THIS creek has three marinas within
swimming distance of us) and power boats would dart out of the channel
to check us out, swimming along the shore. I was afraid that they'd
run over ME trying to see what DH was up to, or vice versa. Once
they'd determined that we were human swimmers, many of them would rev
up the engine to dart back into the channel. A wake is uncomfortable
in a sailboat -- dangerous to a swimmer. What's up with THAT?!

Ruby- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.
Some even beleaved they always had the right of way, which they don't.
I've seen sail boats refuse to give way to large commercial traffic,
with tragic results, all the while claiming "I had the right of way".

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

Your on a boat, and waves, be they from Mother Nature, or from another
boat, are going to happen. If you'r stupid enough to bring a frail old
lady on your boat, and she gets injured, that's your responsibility.
You can try to blame it on whoever you want, you were the one foolish
enough to take her along. Did you ever hear of storms? Do you think
large commercial traffic, that throw large wakes, that must maintain
headway to maintain control is, or will, slow down because you made a
mistake, and you want him to place himself, his crew and vessel, at
risk because of your bad decision? Go ahead and get on the radio and
rant about how your going to sue anyone that rocks your boat. No one's
going to give you a response, such a message does not deserve a
response. See if you can get a lawyer to do what you want, good luck,
it's not going to happen. You may be the one who gets sued by the
"little old lady". Captians who injure their passangers on pleasure
boats get sued by them all the time, you could become one of them.

Your on the water, never depend on the other person to do the right
thing, that's how accidents happen. And never take someone on board
that could be seriously injured by as a result of things that might
happen during the course of a normal day on the water. To do so is a
sign of a poor captian, one that takes risk that he shouldn't take.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:48:10 -0800, Capt John wrote:

snip
....yawn...
*plonk*

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Capt John wrote:

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes if the channel is narrow, the sailboat can't move to the
side. We saw one guy near Barefoot (in the Rock Pile) who was
attempting to be courteous by moving into what looked like an inlet
area. What he didn't realize that there was a rock ledge right under
the water. He was stuck there for a considerable time as a result of
trying to move aside and probably had damage to his boat's bottom.

Sometimes power boats just have to be patient and wait to pass in a
better place.

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

We were passed once by two power boats - one went on the port side and
one went on the starboard side. We were bounced around a bit, but not
badly. However the sailboat ahead of us (a bit to our starboard), did
not see the power boat that passed on our port side because it was on
the other side of us. They had a bit rougher go because of that.

The fact that there may be non-manmade waves does not exempt power
boaters from being responsible for their wakes.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Capt John wrote:

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes if the channel is narrow, the sailboat can't move to the
side. We saw one guy near Barefoot (in the Rock Pile) who was
attempting to be courteous by moving into what looked like an inlet
area. What he didn't realize that there was a rock ledge right under
the water. He was stuck there for a considerable time as a result of
trying to move aside and probably had damage to his boat's bottom.

Sometimes power boats just have to be patient and wait to pass in a
better place.

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

We were passed once by two power boats - one went on the port side and
one went on the starboard side. We were bounced around a bit, but not
badly. However the sailboat ahead of us (a bit to our starboard), did
not see the power boat that passed on our port side because it was on
the other side of us. They had a bit rougher go because of that.

The fact that there may be non-manmade waves does not exempt power
boaters from being responsible for their wakes.



We've had a similar situation happen in the Marina Bay channel, which is
quite narrow. It's really a two-lane channel, and very unforgiving as far as
bottom goes on the right, returning side. (The other side is the edge of a
building/pier.) Coming in one day, I had a PB pass on my port, while another
sailboat was coming out. We were already on the edge of the channel making
room for the on-coming SB. The other SB saw what was happening and moved to
his right as far as possible, and fortunately, the PB got by us, with a big,
but manageable wake. Then, not knowing what the f*ck he was doing, went even
further to the right and ran aground in the mud. Sweet justice. Then, a
couple of minutes later, another PB did the same thing. I think the first PB
must called the second for help, since the pretty much went there directly
after zooming past us and you could see he was on his cell phone. More sweet
justice... they ran aground also. There was a Sea Tow boat coming out from
the marina who saw the whole thing. As he went by us, I could see he was
laughing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:33:24 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote:

Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

Did they get it moved yet, and is the Virginia Cut fully open?

I can't believe they were going through there during the night
although tugs with barges do it all the time.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Nov 9, 8:07 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:33:24 -0500, "Garland Gray II"

wrote:
Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

Did they get it moved yet, and is the Virginia Cut fully open?

I can't believe they were going through there during the night
although tugs with barges do it all the time.



I apparently was in front, as I didn't see her. We had no problem in
the VA cut, but then, we took the non-dismal route, so if that's where
you're talking about, it was still closed when we went. In any event,
we couldn't do that, cuz we're too deep.

In (near) Oriental, we're heading to Cape Lookout to join some
friends, and then go outside to Charleston to meet up with Larry, pick
up some gear and get that alternator replaced (the one the vendor
screwed up on), then head to Savannah. So, I'll be out of touch for a
few days...

L8R

Skip

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:

... three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." ...

I have made 12 or so transits on the Atlantic ICW from the NYC vicinity to
the Keys. Despite the prohibitions regarding traffic on VHF 16, I routinely
contact upcoming power boat traffic (and sometimes sail traffic that is
clearly able to pass quickly) and advise that I will pull to the right
(usually) and go to neutral to allow a quick pass. I don't recall ever
encountering an uncooperative vessel under such circumstances. Usually I
get a response on VHF 16, a short "OK" or the like. Sometime they leave me
guessing but still pass well.

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name, just
something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow," etc.

Works for me.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:28:36 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote:

In (near) Oriental, we're heading to Cape Lookout to join some
friends, and then go outside to Charleston to meet up with Larry, pick
up some gear and get that alternator replaced (the one the vendor
screwed up on), then head to Savannah. So, I'll be out of touch for a
few days...

You are ahead of us. We've been in Manteo, NC for 3 weeks getting
some mechanical work done, hopefully underway again next week.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:29:36 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name, just
something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow," etc.

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no
abuse of 16. You can also switch to low power which will limit the
range to a couple of miles.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...



We've had a similar situation happen in the Marina Bay
channel, which is
quite narrow. It's really a two-lane channel, and very
unforgiving as far as
bottom goes on the right, returning side. (The other side
is the edge of a
building/pier.) Coming in one day, I had a PB pass on my
port, while another
sailboat was coming out. We were already on the edge of
the channel making
room for the on-coming SB. The other SB saw what was
happening and moved to
his right as far as possible, and fortunately, the PB got
by us, with a big,
but manageable wake. Then, not knowing what the f*ck he
was doing, went even
further to the right and ran aground in the mud. Sweet
justice. Then, a
couple of minutes later, another PB did the same thing. I
think the first PB
must called the second for help, since the pretty much
went there directly
after zooming past us and you could see he was on his cell
phone. More sweet
justice... they ran aground also. There was a Sea Tow boat
coming out from
the marina who saw the whole thing. As he went by us, I
could see he was
laughing.


Could you see the Capt and crew, were they all wearing their
''Eat My Wake'' t-shirts? They are very popular here on the
east coast.

SBV

Power boaters and their wakes
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...



We've had a similar situation happen in the Marina Bay
channel, which is
quite narrow. It's really a two-lane channel, and very
unforgiving as far as
bottom goes on the right, returning side. (The other side
is the edge of a
building/pier.) Coming in one day, I had a PB pass on my
port, while another
sailboat was coming out. We were already on the edge of
the channel making
room for the on-coming SB. The other SB saw what was
happening and moved to
his right as far as possible, and fortunately, the PB got
by us, with a big,
but manageable wake. Then, not knowing what the f*ck he
was doing, went even
further to the right and ran aground in the mud. Sweet
justice. Then, a
couple of minutes later, another PB did the same thing. I
think the first PB
must called the second for help, since the pretty much
went there directly
after zooming past us and you could see he was on his cell
phone. More sweet
justice... they ran aground also. There was a Sea Tow boat
coming out from
the marina who saw the whole thing. As he went by us, I
could see he was
laughing.


Could you see the Capt and crew, were they all wearing their
''Eat My Wake'' t-shirts? They are very popular here on the
east coast.

SBV




Heh... we waved and smiled as we went by...


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Power boaters and their wakes
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:29:36 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name, just
something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow," etc.

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no
abuse of 16. You can also switch to low power which will limit the
range to a couple of miles.


Yeah, that's another thing that drives me crazy sometimes... people blasting
out on hi power when the two boats are next to each other.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:38:47 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no abuse of
16.

bzzzt! Oh sorry Wayne, but thanks for playing.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

mr.b wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:38:47 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no abuse of
16.

bzzzt! Oh sorry Wayne, but thanks for playing.

The handout we got from the Coast Guard recommends contacting boats (for
any reason) on 16 and then immediately switching to another channel.

Stephen

Power boaters and their wakes
 

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:29:36 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name, just
something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow," etc.

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no
abuse of 16. You can also switch to low power which will limit the
range to a couple of miles.

Well you may not see it as "Abuse", However, by International Convention
(International Maritime Organization, or IMO, an appendige of the United
Nations) Marine Channel 16, IS a Calling and Distress Channel ONLY.....

One mans "Abuse", may be anothers, "Little White Lie"......

I routinly complain, to the Comander of USCG District 17 Communications
Operations, about USCG conducting Flight OPs Communications with their
Helio's on Channel 16, rather than switching to their Assigned Working
Channel of 21A. The first time, I got a nice letter stating, "That
the USCG was not Governed by the FCC Rules for Radio Operations."
Then I made an appointment with the Commander, and upon meeting him,
showed my credentials, as the local FCC Field Agent, and reminded him,
that Maritime Radio Communications was an International Convention,
and the United States, WAS Signitory to that Convention, and his
Oganization, was a part of the Department of Transportsation (at that
time, now a part of Homeland Security) and therfore WAS Required, by
said International Convention, to not conduct Flight OPs Traffic on
Marine Channel 16, UNLESS that Flight, was Designated a "Search & Rescue"
Flight, AND Flight OPs Traffic could not be passed by any other means.

The Commander did a little research, and I got a very nice letter from
him with a CC to all CommStations in USCG District 17, ammending the
Policy of conducting Comms on Marine Channel 16, so as to be in
compliance with the IMO's Convention. I also got a nice letter from
FCC Hq.

Seems like every time USCG District 17 gets a new Communications Officer,
they go back to their "Old Habits", and I have to remind them of their
responcibility.......


Bruce in alaska
--
add path before @

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Stephen Trapani wrote:

mr.b wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:38:47 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no abuse of
16.

bzzzt! Oh sorry Wayne, but thanks for playing.

The handout we got from the Coast Guard recommends contacting boats (for
any reason) on 16 and then immediately switching to another channel.

True. But even the CG can't adhere to this all the time. They will
try to switch someone who is having a problem to channel 22Alpha, and
won't be able to do it.

If you contact someone, about passing in the ICW, you have to have at
least ONE response from them in order to do that "immediate switching"
to another channel. It's quicker, and easier, and ties up the channel
LESS, if you contact them briefly and state your intentions in one
short transmission, and they acknowledge.

If they don't acknowledge, you don't know if they have heard you. And
some radios are not very easy to switch from one channel to another.

We were called by someone in Norfolk on Channel 16 - they had been
traveling along the ICW at about the same speed as we were. The
wanted to tell us that there was a tug and barge coming up behind us
that wanted to pass who had been calling us on the radio, but we
hadn't heard them. We didn't need to switch to talk about it. They
called, we answered, they told us to move over and that was it.

And if you switch to another channel, you have to have someone to
operate the radio (or you have take time to change the channel
depending on your setup) and then make contact again - all to say what
you could have said in one short transmission and answer.

Which ties up the channel less?

A: Wet Dreams, Wet Dreams this is Blythe Spirit - stay close, go slow
and we will shift back to neutral as you pass. Over

And then either
- OK Blythe Spirit Out
or (more likely) no answer.

B. Wet Dreams Wet Dreams. This is Blythe Spirit - shift and answer
channel 69..

Wet Dreams, Wet Dreams this is Blythe Spirit on 69. if you give us a
nice pass we will shift to neutral as you pass.

(no answer)

Wet Dreams this is Blythe Spirit on 69

Wet Dreams this is Blythe Spirit on 16

and by that time Wet Dreams has caught up and the whole thing becomes
moot.


If you are talking to someone on a regular basis and at length, then
yes, you ought to contact and switch. I don't need to hear all the
fishermen discussing their catch or that kind of thing. In that case
you probably already have an agreed on channel to switch to.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
snip..
I routinly complain, to the Comander of USCG District 17 Communications
Operations, about USCG conducting Flight OPs Communications with their
Helio's on Channel 16, rather than switching to their Assigned Working
Channel of 21A. The first time, I got a nice letter stating, "That
the USCG was not Governed by the FCC Rules for Radio Operations."
Then I made an appointment with the Commander, and upon meeting him,
showed my credentials, as the local FCC Field Agent, and reminded him,
that Maritime Radio Communications was an International Convention,
and the United States, WAS Signitory to that Convention, and his
Oganization, was a part of the Department of Transportsation (at that
time, now a part of Homeland Security) and therfore WAS Required, by
said International Convention, to not conduct Flight OPs Traffic on
Marine Channel 16, UNLESS that Flight, was Designated a "Search & Rescue"
Flight, AND Flight OPs Traffic could not be passed by any other means.

The Commander did a little research, and I got a very nice letter from
him with a CC to all CommStations in USCG District 17, ammending the
Policy of conducting Comms on Marine Channel 16, so as to be in
compliance with the IMO's Convention. I also got a nice letter from
FCC Hq.

Seems like every time USCG District 17 gets a new Communications Officer,
they go back to their "Old Habits", and I have to remind them of their
responcibility.......


Bruce in alaska


Outstanding. Nice to see someone go head to head with a gov't dept and
'win'.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:29:46 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:29:36 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name, just
something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow," etc.

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no
abuse of 16. You can also switch to low power which will limit the
range to a couple of miles.

Well you may not see it as "Abuse", However, by International Convention
(International Maritime Organization, or IMO, an appendige of the United
Nations) Marine Channel 16, IS a Calling and Distress Channel ONLY.....

One mans "Abuse", may be anothers, "Little White Lie"......

The reason that I don't consider that particular example to be abuse
of 16, is because it is a call to another boat (permitted), that
contains a few brief words of other information. Since there is no
prolonged exchange over multiple transmissions, it is hard to construe
that as abuse except possibly in a narrow technical sense. Ideally
that kind of "bridge-to-bridge" transmission would take place at low
power on channel 13 but many pleasure boats do not monitor 13. The
only time that we monitor 13 is in harbors with a lot of commercial
traffic.

Power boaters and their wakes
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:29:36 -0500, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Unfortunately this abuses 16, so I don't often mention my boat name,
just something like "small white sailboat 400 yards on your bow,"
etc.

As long as you are calling someone and keep it brief, there is no
abuse of 16. You can also switch to low power which will limit the
range to a couple of miles.

VHF 16 is a hailing and distress frequency. Of course hailing _could_ mean
"short conversation," but I don't subscribe to that school. However
practicalities do enter into the discussion, and in many cases, especially
with commercial traffic, exchanges on 16 take place and simplify matters.
In the general case, vessels are required to exchange navigational and
traffic information on VHF 13, but not too many pleasure vessels do so on
that channel.

Another aspect is that geography enters in. In New York Harbor just about
all nav and piloting info runs on VHF 13. Along the Georgia ICW just about
all nav and piloting info runs over 16. Meanwhile the VHF rules and
guidelines do not differentiate geographically.

Offshore I have found that in general there is usually no need to converse
on 16 after hailing, and most commercial traffic moves to 13 or another
working frequency to exchange information. In Maine, lobster fishermen, if
responding at all, usually run on 68 or similar and 16 is not involved.

It is probably a good idea, and good manners, to move off VHF when in doubt.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare