dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:31:16 -0500, Bloody Horvath wrote:

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:08:06 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:


Capt JG was in a 32 ft, seaworthy, ocean going sailboat, in open


Who said it was seaworthy? :-) Certainly it isn't ocean capable.


Are you nuts? A 32 ft. Hunter is certainly ocean capable.

yes it is amazing how much tupperware has improved since it was first sold

I used to take my 25 ft. Hunter out in storm warnings, where you would
**** your pants. I was once out in 60 mph winds. The boat loved it, even
if the crew didn't.

of course you did...I'll bet you even had a special nook built into the
lazarette to stow the wheelbarrow you had to use to get your gigantic
balls aboard too...yawn....

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:08:57 -0500, "Leanne" wrote:

Wait until one of these clowns rolls you beam ends and see happy you are.
They know what they are doing when they will not even turn around on the
bridge while I was sounding shorts blasts of the air horns.

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me. It's part of boating
and being on the water. I am constantly amazed at the hue and cry
raised by large seaworthy sailboats when they encounter a wake. It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always be flat.

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

FWIW, since I got my catamaran, I haven't been bothered much by wakes -
in fact on the ICW I frequently told following PB's to come through at
full throttle because the wake doesn't affect me. However, on numerous
occasions I've been blasted by large wakes - over three feet - from
sport fisherman doing 20+ knots in a no wake zone. When you're on a
smaller boat, this can be dangerous.

A few days ago, someone from my winter marina was going through (almost
empty) Boston Harbor and got stopped by the State Police for a large
wake. Where are they in the Summer when its actually a problem!

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

Why are you stalking me?

I'm not going to respond to a sockpuppet beyond this post...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




What is your definition of stalking? Why the ad hominen attack?

Your story portays you as the victim of a powerboater, faulty engine
maintenance (not done by you) and then some kayakers. We hear of your engine
blowing steam, leaking oil, not operable, people in emminent danger and so
on. Someone simply questions the story on nautical and psychological terms
and now you paranoidinally accusing them of stalking you and acting
incognito. Now you're saying the whole thing was no emergency, nothing was
wrong, blah, blah, blah when it is suggested, in part, that most victims are
volunteers. Can you ever find fault in yourself, even if it is just a
smidgeon? Do you find it impossible to apologize? If you admit your own
weaknesses you can work on improving them. Once one reads several of your
posts they realize your attitude is "my way or the highway", that you are
never at fault and somehow the world is out to get you. Such rigid thinking
is only self fullfilling and makes your world a very unpleasant place.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in
some way, and don't even get me started on sailboats who expect the
right-of-way while under power, or who suddenly tack in front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way. Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn is a danger
signal. My other pet peeve is sailboats who don't know how to analyze
a crossing situation, not realizing that I've already altered course
to pass astern of them.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:08:34 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Am convinced that for the most part, to qualify to
receive the keys to
a power vessel, you must certify you only have 2 brain
cells, of which
at least one must be dead.

Now wait just a minute here.

Capt JG was in a 32 ft, seaworthy, ocean going sailboat,
in open
water. Why should he be concerned about a 2 or 3 ft wake?
Let's get
real. A wake is a wave by any other name. If you are
worried about
small waves in a 32 ft sailboat better to stay home.
Power boats
leave wakes (waves). It's a fact and has nothing to do
with brain
cells, moral fiber or any other personal characteristic.

Is this the attitude of most powerboaters?

It would explain a lot of the poor seamanship displayed by
some.

BTW you *ARE* responsible for your wake.

SBV

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:08:57 -0500, "Leanne"
wrote:

Wait until one of these clowns rolls you beam ends and
see happy you are.
They know what they are doing when they will not even
turn around on the
bridge while I was sounding shorts blasts of the air
horns.

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.



I am constantly amazed at the hue and cry
raised by large seaworthy sailboats when they encounter a
wake.


I am not amazed anymore when I see an idiot wake a small
boat. Sadly, it happens all too often.



It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR WAKE !

SBV

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff
wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make
sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by
irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all
powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake
inconveniences them in
some way, and don't even get me started on sailboats who
expect the
right-of-way while under power, or who suddenly tack in
front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way.


Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?


Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn
is a danger
signal.

Oh brother, I've seen this type before, blasting through a
crowd of boats, air horns and all.

SBV

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in
some way, and don't even get me started on sailboats who expect the
right-of-way while under power, or who suddenly tack in front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way. Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn is a danger
signal. My other pet peeve is sailboats who don't know how to analyze
a crossing situation, not realizing that I've already altered course
to pass astern of them.


Perhaps you aren't changing course dramatically enough for them to figure it
out....

In any case, there's no excuse for being ignorant of the rules. I've never
seen a sailboat "suddenly" tack in front of a powerboat. I have seen and
been on sailboats that were tacking back and forth down a channel and having
the PBer expect them to get out of the way.

You are responsible for your wake... PBer or sailor.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"mr.b" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:31:16 -0500, Bloody Horvath wrote:

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 17:08:06 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:


Capt JG was in a 32 ft, seaworthy, ocean going sailboat, in open


Who said it was seaworthy? :-) Certainly it isn't ocean capable.


Are you nuts? A 32 ft. Hunter is certainly ocean capable.

yes it is amazing how much tupperware has improved since it was first sold

I used to take my 25 ft. Hunter out in storm warnings, where you would
**** your pants. I was once out in 60 mph winds. The boat loved it,
even
if the crew didn't.

of course you did...I'll bet you even had a special nook built into the
lazarette to stow the wheelbarrow you had to use to get your gigantic
balls aboard too...yawn....


I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"mr.b" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...


Or, be up on the deck trying to reef or shake out a reef. Could be good MOB
practice, however.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Nov 7, 1:54 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Say, you are right. The rules says, "lights and shapes" right up until the
12 meter exemption.
... You really have to read these things with a fine tooth comb. ...

Actually, rule 27 (g) says "Vessels of less than 12 meters in length,
except those engaged in diving operations, shall not be required to
exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule."

I must have read that damn book 20 times when I was studying for my
license and I have no memory of that exception... Pathetic.

You were right and I was wrong. I apologize.

-- Tom.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:55:43 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

You are responsible for your wake... PBer or sailor.

Yes, everyone knows that they are responsible for *damage* caused by
their wake. That does not include inconvenience or damaged egos
however.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:16:21 -0500, "mr.b" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and
have always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially
when closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the
water, and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to
improve their comfort level or finish position.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or motoryachts.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:28:50 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and have
always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially when
closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the water,
and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to improve their
comfort level or finish position.

that's obvious...but not to the point...the discussion was about the
ignorant and arrogant who pilot their stinktubs with what could be
described as a less than cooperative spirit...like the moron described by
the OP.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:48:27 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?

Would you tack in front of a freighter or cruise ship and expect them
to alter course for you? The issues are the same, only on a different
scale.

See Colregs Rule 17 (a) (i)

Rule 17

Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)

(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way of the other
shall keep her course and speed.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Nov 7, 9:19 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
... Interestingly, the online version omits the "and shapes". I assume you were
looking at the book which I was going to do the next time I go down to the
boat. ...

I was looking at my book which is current as of Jan 2003. I type this
from my pilot house so it is easy to grab. I notice you are right
that the online version has dropped "and shapes" but if you download
the pdf it is still in there...

While I'm scraping the egg off my face, I want to point out that
google groups has been kind of randomizing my posts. A couple of
posts that I didn't think had gone out just appeared and a couple that
I though I sent are still in the aether... It is kind of embarrassing
to apologize for getting a point wrong only to have another one of my
posts pop-up making the same wrong point. If any more of them appear
saying that the shapes are required please ignore them; I'm not
trying to be difficult or bone headed.

-- Tom.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

This is really not a discussion between sailboaters and powerboaters;
its a discussion between boaters who are normally at 8 knots or less,
and those who are over 10 knots.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in
some way,

I'm sure there are a few sailors that think all powerboaters are scum of
the Earth, but I don't think is widely held. However, I firmly believe
that powerboaters tend to subconsciously alter course to pass in front
of other boats rather than pass behind them. In fact, this will
happpen to me several times a day: a powerboat that is on course to pass
well behind me alters course and passes close ahead of me.

and don't even get me started on sailboats who expect the
right-of-way while under power,

In years of sailing in a crowded harbor, I've only seen them demand room
like this a few times. The recreation fishers who claim rights as
"fishing boats" probably outnumbers them a hundred to one.

or who suddenly tack in front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way.

I admit I've seen this often, but its almost always inexperienced kids
who naively assume that the powerboaters appreciate their needs. When I
left from or returned to my old marina I passed by four sailing schools;
I could pretty much count on at least one boat of kids tacking in front
of me. Away from the schools I hardly ever see this. In fact, the only
places where I often see it is where there are small sailboats near
their moorings or docks.

Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn is a danger
signal.

If you did that near one of the aforementioned youth programs, you'd
probably have a police boat on your butt real quick!

My other pet peeve is sailboats who don't know how to analyze
a crossing situation, not realizing that I've already altered course
to pass astern of them.

Clearly this is your fault:

"Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if
the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily
apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession
of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided."

Frankly, one of my pet peeves is powerboats approaching at very high
speed, making a long gradual turn, and somehow assuming that I'll be
able to figure out what they're doing, and somehow react to it.
Inevitably, they end up crossing my bow at 35 knots.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will
always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.

....no class

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or
fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or
motoryachts.



Big ships and tugs don't pass within 20 feet at full speed
like some stinkpotters do.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:48:27 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?

Would you tack in front of a freighter or cruise ship and
expect them
to alter course for you?


Of course not, don't be ridiculous. Not germane to this
discussion.



The issues are the same,



Hardly!


only on a different
scale.


Oh, the same but different, huh?


Stop making excuses for your childish actions.

SBV

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:38:46 -0500, "mr.b" wrote this
crap:

Capt JG was in a 32 ft, seaworthy, ocean going sailboat, in open

Who said it was seaworthy? :-) Certainly it isn't ocean capable.

Are you nuts? A 32 ft. Hunter is certainly ocean capable.

yes it is amazing how much tupperware has improved since it was first sold

I used to take my 25 ft. Hunter out in storm warnings, where you would
**** your pants. I was once out in 60 mph winds. The boat loved it, even
if the crew didn't.

of course you did...I'll bet you even had a special nook built into the
lazarette to stow the wheelbarrow you had to use to get your gigantic
balls aboard too...yawn....


Yes, I had an extra compartment, but it was to hold more beer.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:56:50 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.


You're an idiot. I've gone through storms that would have you tied to
the mast, puking your guts into your purse.

I took third place in a race during one of those storms.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:56:50 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.


You're an idiot. I've gone through storms that would have you tied to
the mast, puking your guts into your purse.

I took third place in a race during one of those storms.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.


Are you related to Capt Neal?

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:00:11 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Stop making excuses for your childish actions.

Pot kettle black. Go back to your toy boat and continue whinning.

Carry on.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:38:31 -0500, "mr.b" wrote:

that's obvious...but not to the point...the discussion was about the
ignorant and arrogant who pilot their stinktubs with what could be
described as a less than cooperative spirit...like the moron described by
the OP.

A lot of it is a perception issue. People in larger, faster boats are
percieved as being arrogant, particularly if they are well dressed or
in the company of good looking women. If they inconvenience or
discomfit us, they are percieved as being ignorant. Take that same
person and put him down on your level in a sailboat and all of a
sudden he is an educated, well spoken, all around nice guy.

Perceptions.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

Bloody Horvath wrote:
I took third place in a race during one of those storms.


I threw out most of my third place trophies. Not worth the shelf
space.

DSK

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:39:53 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

It would explain a lot of the poor seamanship displayed by
some.

BTW you *ARE* responsible for your wake.

Discomforting a sound seaworthy sailboat with a wave hardly falls into
the category of poor seamanship, common attitudes not withstanding. I
am *very* careful with my wake in narrow passages and around small low
freeboard craft. Not everyone is, but they should be.

There is a common problem with overtaking situations which some
sailboaters appear totally oblivious to. It happens a lot on the ICW
which is none too wide in many places. If a sailboat continues on at
close to hull speed while a powerboat is overtaking, there is no
choice for the powerboat other than leaving a wake. Most experienced
sailors on the ICW recognize this issue and slow down to idle speed
allowing the powerboat to reduce speed also. Those who don't get
waked by yet another "arrogant ignorant" powerboater.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:55:43 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

You are responsible for your wake... PBer or sailor.

Yes, everyone knows that they are responsible for *damage* caused by
their wake. That does not include inconvenience or damaged egos
however.


Please show me where I said it damaged my ego or was inconvenient? I said
that it endangered my crew.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:16:21 -0500, "mr.b" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and
have always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially
when closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the
water, and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to
improve their comfort level or finish position.


And, it's not a matter of improving someone's comfort. It's a matter of
respecting the rules, which this guy clearly didn't do, thus putting people
in danger. For someone who wasn't there, you sure seem certain about what
happened. Why's that?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or
fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or
motoryachts.



Big ships and tugs don't pass within 20 feet at full speed
like some stinkpotters do.





Exactly. In fact, the tugs going along as powerboats and not working are
quite courteous. They get it. I've been on the ocean and had a tanker change
course to go around us... following the rules as he should have. We hailed
him and thanked him.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.


Responsible for damage and/or injury.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:56:50 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.


You're an idiot. I've gone through storms that would have you tied to
the mast, puking your guts into your purse.

I took third place in a race during one of those storms.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.


Are you related to Capt Neal?



He's just another dweeb who thinks he knows something and doesn't. He's
quite insecure and a coward, apparently.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:53:32 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

A lot of it is a perception issue. People in larger, faster boats are
percieved as being arrogant, particularly if they are well dressed or in
the company of good looking women. If they inconvenience or discomfit us,
they are percieved as being ignorant. Take that same person and put him
down on your level in a sailboat and all of a sudden he is an educated,
well spoken, all around nice guy.

Perceptions.

I think Wayne that you want to advance the idea that there are classes of
boaters...and to a certain extent I'll agree but not in the way you'd
like. There is a class of considerate boaters who abide by the rules of
good seamanship...and then there are the assholes...and some of them drive
ragbaggers too. This thread started about a dumbass who passed too
closely to a sailboat at speed while the capt of the stinktub is reported
to have offered up the international handsign that announced his IQ. You
shouldn't feel compelled to defend the undefendable.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"mr.b" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:53:32 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

A lot of it is a perception issue. People in larger, faster boats are
percieved as being arrogant, particularly if they are well dressed or in
the company of good looking women. If they inconvenience or discomfit
us,
they are percieved as being ignorant. Take that same person and put him
down on your level in a sailboat and all of a sudden he is an educated,
well spoken, all around nice guy.

Perceptions.

I think Wayne that you want to advance the idea that there are classes of
boaters...and to a certain extent I'll agree but not in the way you'd
like. There is a class of considerate boaters who abide by the rules of
good seamanship...and then there are the assholes...and some of them drive
ragbaggers too. This thread started about a dumbass who passed too
closely to a sailboat at speed while the capt of the stinktub is reported
to have offered up the international handsign that announced his IQ. You
shouldn't feel compelled to defend the undefendable.



I agree... we promote being considerate, and despite my skeptical nature,
I'm almost always taken aback when on the receiving end of assholes.
Certainly, there are sailors who are good and bad, same with PBers. I've
experienced both from both.

Hey, maybe Wayne was the PBer in question!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Nov 6, 8:18 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



No, seriosly, I think you are misunderestimating the distances and
thus complaining about non-issues.

No seriously, I didn't. I have a fair amount of experience in the North Bay
of SF especially, and wakes are not a big deal.



Here is the test:

If another boater cuts you off close enough to fling some old fish
heads on his bridge, you have the right to do so. Just do it. Fish
heads, anything biodegradable, in case you miss. You will soon see if
they really are that close, it is hard to aim fish heads well over
more than 50 feet, I would guess. Ask me how I know.

Gross. No thanks.

Also, if you really were going just half a knot, the kayaker could
have moved out of your way easily. They are capable of accelerating to
about five knots in not time. And trust me, he would have, if you had
been really close. He just didn't think you were too close.

You're right in that he didn't think, but we were too close. As I said
previously, it was my impression after thinking about it that he couldn't
control his kayak. I think he was a total novice.

Btw., having no engine does not put you in 'unable to maneuver '
status. It just makes you a sailboat, col-reg-wise, doesn't it?

I did have an engine, and I told him that we were having engine trouble. So,
I'm not sure what you're asking.

So, what had happened with the engine? We are all curious to hear.

I'm waiting to hear...

Captain Jack Sparrow

Right.





On Nov 6, 11:44 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Taught a class this last weekend through one of the local schools.
Saturday,
wind was light, so we practiced a lot of motoring skills aboard a newer
Hunter 32. Typically, the second day is devoted to sailing skills, such
as
COBs and the usual tacking/jibing/points of sail, etc.

The wind picked up a bit in mid-afternoon, and we got some good COB
practice. Ate lunch under sail, and since anchoring knowledge is part of
the
class, I decided to get us over to the Cone Rock area for a bit of
practice.
Sailing there, a big cabin cruiser came up on us from the starboard
stern...
must have been going 10+ kts, with a huge wake.

At first I thought he was going to cut us off to the point of us having
to
take evasive action, but he weaved around enough to clear our side and
bow.
The whole time we're waving and gesturing to slow down, since it was
going
to be close and the wake was going to be huge. He kept right on going,
and
as he got abeam, had the middle finger flying. What a jerk. Fortunately,
we
were all holding on at this point, so no one was hurt or thrown off the
boat, which could easily have been the case.

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the
engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on. I was able to kill the engine within 20
seconds
or so. A couple of the students were still up by the mast, so the main
came
back up without a hitch. As soon as they scrambled back to the cockpit, I
popped the furling line for the jib, it came out, and we got moving
again.

We did a visual inspection of the engine... double checked that the raw
water intake was open, oil level, fresh water level, feel for excessive
heat, sniff test for something burning, belts are on and not slipping. I
had
someone turn the engine back on and I put my hand over the raw water
exhaust
(it's under the transom, and you can be fooled by air bubbling vs. water
exiting). Water was definitely coming out, the water was luke warm at
most,
but the alarm was on. Also, I noticed oil on the absorbant pad underneath
the engine... not a lot, but there was none in the morning... something
happened. Well, we were sailing, so it didn't matter right now, and I
shut
down the engine after about a minute. Even though the water was only warm
at
most, I was starting to see steam coming out of the exhaust. I started
thinking it might be a blown head gasket, one reason was it seemed overly
rough at low idle.

Since we were headed back to base anyway at this point, I figured I'd
give
them a ring (cell phone had great reception) and let the base manager
know
what was up and ask if he had any suggestions. He had none beyond what
I'd
already done, so I told him we'd be back in about an hour at most, and I
would call him again if I thought we couldn't make it back to either the
slip or an end tie near the base. I think he appreciated me not hailing
them
on the VHF... dirty laundry in public and all that.

So, we're sailing down the Sausalito channel. Toward the end of the
channel,
where we need to go, it gets rather narrow, and it's quite easy to run
aground if you get outside the markers. As we get to a particularly
narrow
spot (still under sail, which was good practice for the students), three
kayakers come out of a marina and are slowly paddling ahead of us on our
port side just outside the channel. I can see that they're totally
unaware
of us and edging closer and closer to the channel, obviously going to
head
across it.

When I got within earshot, I called over to them, saying, please stay out
of
the channel... we're having engine trouble and can't maneauver. One asked
me
where he should be, and I said, anywhere except in front of me is fine.
Another one stopped paddling, waiting for us to go by. The third guy kept
going! Slowly! Unbelievable. So, I said, Sir, if you keep going, we're
going
to run you over. Please get out of the channel. He said ok, but kept
going!
So, I turned on the engine again, figuring I could use it for 30 seconds
without damage, since it had been off for over 30 minutes. We got around
him, barely. I thanked him for getting out of our way, and I think he
thought I was serious. Jeez... Then, I turned off the engine.

Well, the final leg was sailing down the fairway, very light wind at this
point... under 2kts, but we made a beautiful docking, and all ended well.

--
"j" ganz

--
"j" ganz

So, Captain John Goose, what DID happen with the engine?

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:59:30 -0800, wrote this
crap:

Bloody Horvath wrote:
I took third place in a race during one of those storms.


I threw out most of my third place trophies. Not worth the shelf
space.

Get a bigger trailer, dude.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.


Are you related to Capt Neal?


Only by marriage.