Atlantic City Boat Show
 

On 21 Jan 2004 13:40:23 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

kinda watch the shoals going in there.

Last time I went in there I never had less than 7 feet. You just have
to make sure you stay in the channel going back to the basin because out
of it, it's very shallow and areas are dry at low tide. There are quite
a few big boats at the houses around the basin so they keep it dredged.
Also, it's off a very well protected inlet.

Steve

There's a great place to anchor right next to AC. As you're going down
the inlet, before you get to the bridge, the main harbor will be to your
left. But look to your right for a marked cut in the beach. Take that
cut and follow the channel along the left side of the little bay you're
in, past all the houses that'll be on your left, and go back to a second
area opening up to a nice basin for anchoring. You'll be in Brigantine
only a short cab or bike ride from AC. There's a landing area for a
dink right across the street from a shopping center.

Steve

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

watch for the Brigintine Shoals, water is only 3 feet if I remember correctly.

kinda watch the shoals going in there.

Last time I went in there I never had less than 7 feet. You just have
to make sure you stay in the channel going back to the basin because out
of it, it's very shallow and areas are dry at low tide. There are quite
a few big boats at the houses around the basin so they keep it dredged.
Also, it's off a very well protected inlet.

Steve

There's a great place to anchor right next to AC. As you're going down
the inlet, before you get to the bridge, the main harbor will be to your
left. But look to your right for a marked cut in the beach. Take that
cut and follow the channel along the left side of the little bay you're
in, past all the houses that'll be on your left, and go back to a second
area opening up to a nice basin for anchoring. You'll be in Brigantine
only a short cab or bike ride from AC. There's a landing area for a
dink right across the street from a shopping center.

Steve

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

watch for the Brigintine Shoals, water is only 3 feet if I remember correctly.

kinda watch the shoals going in there.

Last time I went in there I never had less than 7 feet. You just have
to make sure you stay in the channel going back to the basin because out
of it, it's very shallow and areas are dry at low tide. There are quite
a few big boats at the houses around the basin so they keep it dredged.
Also, it's off a very well protected inlet.

Steve

There's a great place to anchor right next to AC. As you're going down
the inlet, before you get to the bridge, the main harbor will be to your
left. But look to your right for a marked cut in the beach. Take that
cut and follow the channel along the left side of the little bay you're
in, past all the houses that'll be on your left, and go back to a second
area opening up to a nice basin for anchoring. You'll be in Brigantine
only a short cab or bike ride from AC. There's a landing area for a
dink right across the street from a shopping center.

Steve

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat ownership to
be affordable? I've been looking for something like that for many long
years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making big
profits.

The marinas owned by the city of Miami and Dade County apparently
don't want transients at all. They've raised the prices to the point
that the marinas are half empty even in the winter season. It's
$1.85/ft/day, plus electric. I paid almost more for a week there then
I did for a month in Marathon at an expensive marina, and a month in
Marathon costs me twice what the quarterly rent on my slip at home is.

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes "Armond Perretta"
wrote:

Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat ownership to
be affordable? I've been looking for something like that for many long
years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making big
profits.

The marinas owned by the city of Miami and Dade County apparently
don't want transients at all. They've raised the prices to the point
that the marinas are half empty even in the winter season. It's
$1.85/ft/day, plus electric. I paid almost more for a week there then
I did for a month in Marathon at an expensive marina, and a month in
Marathon costs me twice what the quarterly rent on my slip at home is.

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

Rosalie B. wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat
ownership to be affordable? I've been looking for something like
that for many long years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making
big profits.

Trump's is not a "state-run" marina. The land is owned by the state of NJ,
and management is by the Trump organization. Even if the facility were
"state-run," there is no reason it should avoid maximizing taxpayer
revenue. People who use the marina do so voluntarily.

There are quite a few people in NJ who don't own boats, and they are
probably not interested in subsidizing those who do.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

Rosalie B. wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat
ownership to be affordable? I've been looking for something like
that for many long years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making
big profits.

Trump's is not a "state-run" marina. The land is owned by the state of NJ,
and management is by the Trump organization. Even if the facility were
"state-run," there is no reason it should avoid maximizing taxpayer
revenue. People who use the marina do so voluntarily.

There are quite a few people in NJ who don't own boats, and they are
probably not interested in subsidizing those who do.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Armond Perretta" wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat
ownership to be affordable? I've been looking for something like
that for many long years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making
big profits.

Well I should have said 'state owned' - and it wasn't MY idea, I was
just responding to person who said it should be inexpensive. IMHO, a
state facility should be run for the citizens of the area, and not be
an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place. Most state parks and the
like have reasonable fees.

Trump's is not a "state-run" marina. The land is owned by the state of NJ,
and management is by the Trump organization. Even if the facility were
"state-run," there is no reason it should avoid maximizing taxpayer
revenue. People who use the marina do so voluntarily.

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible, and being efficient with
personnel AFA is consistent with good service.

So Miamarina, which seems to have a plethora of employees, and in
which 3/4ths of the slips are empty would not seem to me to be either
efficient or to have set the rates correctly. And if I were an owner
of the surrounding businesses, I would be a bit upset about this.
Titusville OTOH has done a much better job of it.

There are quite a few people in NJ who don't own boats, and they are
probably not interested in subsidizing those who do.

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even.
Atlantis Marina on Paradise Island, Nassau charges $4.00/ft, but for
that you get admission to all the Atlantis attractions and can play
with all the beach toys.


grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Armond Perretta" wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Gogarty wrote:

... the marina at the Trump casino is state-owned and should be
inexpensive ...

Where can I get my hands on copy of the law that requires boat
ownership to be affordable? I've been looking for something like
that for many long years now.

I think the idea is that the state run marina shouldn't be making
big profits.

Well I should have said 'state owned' - and it wasn't MY idea, I was
just responding to person who said it should be inexpensive. IMHO, a
state facility should be run for the citizens of the area, and not be
an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place. Most state parks and the
like have reasonable fees.

Trump's is not a "state-run" marina. The land is owned by the state of NJ,
and management is by the Trump organization. Even if the facility were
"state-run," there is no reason it should avoid maximizing taxpayer
revenue. People who use the marina do so voluntarily.

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible, and being efficient with
personnel AFA is consistent with good service.

So Miamarina, which seems to have a plethora of employees, and in
which 3/4ths of the slips are empty would not seem to me to be either
efficient or to have set the rates correctly. And if I were an owner
of the surrounding businesses, I would be a bit upset about this.
Titusville OTOH has done a much better job of it.

There are quite a few people in NJ who don't own boats, and they are
probably not interested in subsidizing those who do.

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even.
Atlantis Marina on Paradise Island, Nassau charges $4.00/ft, but for
that you get admission to all the Atlantis attractions and can play
with all the beach toys.


grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

Rosalie wrote:

... IMHO, a state facility should be run for the citizens of the area,
and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place...

I will not argue with a person's opinions, at least not usually. However
the location in question is not a "state facility" in the sense the phrase
is commonly understood. Further, I don't believe I've encountered many
state-run marine facilities that discourage traffic. Those I've encountered
seem very interested in collecting fees.

Armond wrote:

... Even if the facility were "state-run," there is no reason it should
avoid maximizing taxpayer revenue ...

Rosalie wrote:

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible..

Once again, I suspect you are not using "maximizing profits" in the sense
the phrase is commonly understood. In fact maximizing use could easily
lower profits once maintenance and refurbishment expenses are taken into
account.

In any case your statement above that "the facility is used to the maximum
amount" contradicts your earlier statement that "a state facility should be
run for the citizens of the area, and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear
kind of place."

Rosalie wrote:

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even ...

How did you determine that Trump charges more "to break even"? I don't
think there is any published financial data to support this. I also don't
think I've ever seen _any_ Trump facility charge less than the maximum
amount possible.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

Rosalie wrote:

... IMHO, a state facility should be run for the citizens of the area,
and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place...

I will not argue with a person's opinions, at least not usually. However
the location in question is not a "state facility" in the sense the phrase
is commonly understood. Further, I don't believe I've encountered many
state-run marine facilities that discourage traffic. Those I've encountered
seem very interested in collecting fees.

Armond wrote:

... Even if the facility were "state-run," there is no reason it should
avoid maximizing taxpayer revenue ...

Rosalie wrote:

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible..

Once again, I suspect you are not using "maximizing profits" in the sense
the phrase is commonly understood. In fact maximizing use could easily
lower profits once maintenance and refurbishment expenses are taken into
account.

In any case your statement above that "the facility is used to the maximum
amount" contradicts your earlier statement that "a state facility should be
run for the citizens of the area, and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear
kind of place."

Rosalie wrote:

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even ...

How did you determine that Trump charges more "to break even"? I don't
think there is any published financial data to support this. I also don't
think I've ever seen _any_ Trump facility charge less than the maximum
amount possible.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Armond Perretta" wrote:

Rosalie wrote:

... IMHO, a state facility should be run for the citizens of the area,
and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place...

I will not argue with a person's opinions, at least not usually. However
the location in question is not a "state facility" in the sense the phrase
is commonly understood. Further, I don't believe I've encountered many
state-run marine facilities that discourage traffic. Those I've encountered
seem very interested in collecting fees.

There are lots of places where there are state owned or national park
owned facilities which are run by private corporations. I think these
places have some kind of contract with the entity that owns the
property.

By state facility I do not mean that it is necessarily run by the
state. Even prisons and schools are sometimes run by private business
rather than by state personal. These are still state facilities, even
when run by private enterprises IMO.

Miamarina doesn't seem to care that their slips are mostly empty.
They collect the fees, but they don't seem interested in maximizing
the revenue or in cutting personnel to offset the fact that less users
means less service is needed. They are perfectly happy to collect the
fees of course, but will not do anything to increase the number of
people who pay them.

To be fair, I think the fees are set by someone higher up, and
possibly they are set that way in order to decrease transient use.
So if that is their goal, they are achieving it. But the fees are
also too high for most local residents, so if their goal was also to
allow more local use, that goal is not being met. (Reduced rates are
available only to Dade Co residents and only for a year contract)

Armond wrote:

... Even if the facility were "state-run," there is no reason it should
avoid maximizing taxpayer revenue ...

Rosalie wrote:

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible..

Once again, I suspect you are not using "maximizing profits" in the sense
the phrase is commonly understood. In fact maximizing use could easily
lower profits once maintenance and refurbishment expenses are taken into
account.

In any case your statement above that "the facility is used to the maximum
amount" contradicts your earlier statement that "a state facility should be
run for the citizens of the area, and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear
kind of place."

I don't agree with this point. A marina can't maximize profit if it
isn't taking in any money because no one stays there. Maximizing
profits means setting the fees so that the marina is full but not so
low that the maintenance expenses are not met. The local businesses
will be getting increased tax revenue from the marina, plus increased
business from transients that stay there. Reduced rates for local
boaters can also be put into effect.

Rosalie wrote:

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even ...

How did you determine that Trump charges more "to break even"? I don't
think there is any published financial data to support this. I also don't
think I've ever seen _any_ Trump facility charge less than the maximum
amount possible.

Well there you are. Trump facilities normally charge the maximum
possible, and I bet that most of it goes to them, and not to the state
owners. So the contract between Trump and the state is probably
skewed in Trump's favor which is taking money away from the local
citizens.

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Armond Perretta" wrote:

Rosalie wrote:

... IMHO, a state facility should be run for the citizens of the area,
and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear kind of place...

I will not argue with a person's opinions, at least not usually. However
the location in question is not a "state facility" in the sense the phrase
is commonly understood. Further, I don't believe I've encountered many
state-run marine facilities that discourage traffic. Those I've encountered
seem very interested in collecting fees.

There are lots of places where there are state owned or national park
owned facilities which are run by private corporations. I think these
places have some kind of contract with the entity that owns the
property.

By state facility I do not mean that it is necessarily run by the
state. Even prisons and schools are sometimes run by private business
rather than by state personal. These are still state facilities, even
when run by private enterprises IMO.

Miamarina doesn't seem to care that their slips are mostly empty.
They collect the fees, but they don't seem interested in maximizing
the revenue or in cutting personnel to offset the fact that less users
means less service is needed. They are perfectly happy to collect the
fees of course, but will not do anything to increase the number of
people who pay them.

To be fair, I think the fees are set by someone higher up, and
possibly they are set that way in order to decrease transient use.
So if that is their goal, they are achieving it. But the fees are
also too high for most local residents, so if their goal was also to
allow more local use, that goal is not being met. (Reduced rates are
available only to Dade Co residents and only for a year contract)

Armond wrote:

... Even if the facility were "state-run," there is no reason it should
avoid maximizing taxpayer revenue ...

Rosalie wrote:

Well maximizing profits means setting the rates so that the facility
is used to the maximum amount AFA possible..

Once again, I suspect you are not using "maximizing profits" in the sense
the phrase is commonly understood. In fact maximizing use could easily
lower profits once maintenance and refurbishment expenses are taken into
account.

In any case your statement above that "the facility is used to the maximum
amount" contradicts your earlier statement that "a state facility should be
run for the citizens of the area, and not be an all-the-traffic-will-bear
kind of place."

I don't agree with this point. A marina can't maximize profit if it
isn't taking in any money because no one stays there. Maximizing
profits means setting the fees so that the marina is full but not so
low that the maintenance expenses are not met. The local businesses
will be getting increased tax revenue from the marina, plus increased
business from transients that stay there. Reduced rates for local
boaters can also be put into effect.

Rosalie wrote:

If other marinas can make a profit while charging less, then I don't
know why Trumps has to charge so much more in order to break even ...

How did you determine that Trump charges more "to break even"? I don't
think there is any published financial data to support this. I also don't
think I've ever seen _any_ Trump facility charge less than the maximum
amount possible.

Well there you are. Trump facilities normally charge the maximum
possible, and I bet that most of it goes to them, and not to the state
owners. So the contract between Trump and the state is probably
skewed in Trump's favor which is taking money away from the local
citizens.

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes

Dave wrote:

In business, the objective isn't to break even, it's to maximize profit.

So what is the objective for a state-run marina? (As opposed to a
state owned marina that is leased to a private contractor)

And what is the objective for a state owned but leased marina?

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

x-no-archive:yes

Dave wrote:

In business, the objective isn't to break even, it's to maximize profit.

So what is the objective for a state-run marina? (As opposed to a
state owned marina that is leased to a private contractor)

And what is the objective for a state owned but leased marina?

grandma Rosalie

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

In article ,
says...

There are lots of places where there are state owned or national park
owned facilities which are run by private corporations. I think these
places have some kind of contract with the entity that owns the
property.

New York City and New York State, in the New York City region alone, have
several marinas operating out of the Department of Parks amd Recreation. They
are significantly cheaper than privately owned and operated marians in the
region. They have traditionally been run by contractors, which in some cases
meant running them into the ground. The contractor operating our marina,
World's Fair Marina in Flushing, Queens, was ousted a few years ago but he was
only the last of s string of unsatisfactory operators. That marina is now run
entirely by the City. But several others, notably the 79th Street Boat basin
and Bayside, are still contractor operated. There is another one on the East
River at 23rd Street but it is run by the Department of Marine and Aviation.
Seaplanes do operate out of it.

Atlantic City Boat Show
 

In article ,
says...

There are lots of places where there are state owned or national park
owned facilities which are run by private corporations. I think these
places have some kind of contract with the entity that owns the
property.

New York City and New York State, in the New York City region alone, have
several marinas operating out of the Department of Parks amd Recreation. They
are significantly cheaper than privately owned and operated marians in the
region. They have traditionally been run by contractors, which in some cases
meant running them into the ground. The contractor operating our marina,
World's Fair Marina in Flushing, Queens, was ousted a few years ago but he was
only the last of s string of unsatisfactory operators. That marina is now run
entirely by the City. But several others, notably the 79th Street Boat basin
and Bayside, are still contractor operated. There is another one on the East
River at 23rd Street but it is run by the Department of Marine and Aviation.
Seaplanes do operate out of it.