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October 26 - What A Drag!
On Oct 27, 2:41 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:
... I wasn't able to find any author by that name. However, I have, now, read a 21-year-old text by that name and which had Earl Hinz, as I offered in my reply before, as the author. ... Earl R Hinz is one of my heroes. He is an extraordinarily talented writer and researcher and has produced the seminal books on cruising in Oceania based on his own trailblazing travels. You may disagree with him, and there are a few thoughts of his that I take issue with, but he deserves more than an ordinary amount of respect. The last edition of _The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring_ came out in 2001. I have an older edition and I don't know if the new one mentions the newer anchors but even if it doesn't the fundamentals haven't been changed by them. I've been using a Spade for a few years now and it is a good anchor, but it is used in the same way as the Delta from which it was evolved. Not that anyone can learn to anchor by reading books alone, but the Hinz book on anchoring is worth a read and his articles and books on Pacific cruising are very good, indeed. Of course, I think Bob is being silly, but I hope that won't put you off Hinz. On a more or less unrelated topic, I use my GPS for anchor watch all the time. I've got a Furuno GP-31 and it has a simple graphic page that displays a "bread crumb" trail. I find that I can see where I dropped the anchor on that screen and put a goto point there. The anchor watch alarm is then set to go off if I go outside a circle around that point. While we sit at anchor the gps continues drawing the track on the screen and pretty soon a thick arc is drawn. This makes it very easy to see if we are dragging even if it is pitch black and raining as it so often is when a front passes by in the night... -- Tom. |
October 26 - What A Drag!
Hi, Jeff, and Group,
I probably shouldn't continue with this, as my name is already mud, ya know, but, just a couple of observations... On Oct 27, 10:36 pm, jeff wrote: Skip Gundlach wrote: ... Well, apparently several reasons. None are particularly important; I presume it to be that I misread a fouled anchor, when, instead, it was a lousy mud bottom which had done me in on the first pull. Not having sampled the bottom directly, but only by apparent set, I didn't know the nature of it as being - apparently, in hindsight - the same lousy stuff we abandoned on the other side of the channel when we first started on our time in Oxford, when we didn't set well, and I did, indeed, do the bottom sample, albeit with a 55# Delta. Duh! What a coincidence - soft mud in two different parts of the Chesapeake! What are the odds of that? This is the first time I've ever been in, let alone cruised the Chesapeake, and the only reason I was in it was to make the trip south a bit more interesting for my 82 year old Mother-in-Law, who joined us in NY on September 1. The ICW isn't my cup of tea. Having said that, we've enjoyed where we've been so far, and, as those who have been around long enough to have observed my style, anything which has happened which didn't kill me is merely part of life's fabric, and an adventure. So, I don't get very fussed about it, and instead, provide target practice for those who are better than I, and, sometimes, cautionary tales for those who haven't made my mistakes yet. My bad. Repetitively admitted. I'm unlikely to make the same mistake twice, whatever it is. ''' I can't find anything by him. However, in the book of the same name by Hinz, the author suggests sampling only a very small portion of only the surface. If you thought that duck consisted of a few inch circle of feathers, you'd be missing a pretty good meal, but that's what you'd get with his soap, grease or other sticky to pull up something from the bottom. I'll take a core sample or at least a foot or so of some other means, thanks. Ah! Hinz is an incompetent bozo because he doesn't advise taking many core samples to figure out there's mud in the Chesapeake. No. I was disputing the absolute certainty that the only way to find out what the bottom was composed of was to do a Hinz-stick maneuver. I don't agree with that as being sufficient information. I agree that it's a quick and dirty (muddy?) way to get some debris from the top of whatever you're over. I'm much more interested in what's underneath. No, you're correct that I didn't do that in my second anchoring location; had I, I might have anchored differently. My bad. But then, again, I've never been shy about admitting those, have I? For god sakes man. Just go to a book store and order it ! ! ! or go on line and order it Already read it. Well, already read what I presume you intended me to read, not something by a nonexistent Hintz. Interesting reading and I see that it's where you got all your questions. Now that I know how to find the means to calculate, perhaps I'll do that. Other than the minutiae of calculation, I didn't see anything in the book which was new information to me; Yes, it's clear you have the anchoring thing down pat now. Nor did I say that. I said I didn't see new (to me) information. As someone else in this thread has observed, reading and application are different things. Whether I knew something and applied all the knowledge are not necessarily congruent. I did see lots of old data/equipment and not the first word about third generation anchors which are available today... Skip, this has to rank amongst the dumbest things you've said here. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how these "third generation anchors" have made Hinz's work obsolete. Nor did I say it was obsolete. However, to your point, and mine, which related to rode, the state of the art has changed since the edition I read. I was being taken to task for an inadequate (inferred) rode; it's my opinion that the cordage and hooks today are superior to that shown in the book I read as directed (assuming Bob merely has a twitchy "t" finger and isn't trying to have me read something else), and that what I have done to construct the several rodes we have aboard is sufficient to the task at hand. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my movie. The time would be better spent reading a good book on anchoring. I suggest Hinz. Not a bad suggestion. And if you've bothered to read for content rather than merely to find something to shoot at, you'd have seen that I have done just that. However, having completed my assignment for the day, I went back to entertaining my two lady companions. For now, I'm considering whether I want to go out in nasty stuff (not dangerous), flying down to Solomons, or take another day in Cambridge and go to church, instead. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
October 26 - What A Drag!
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:38:41 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: For now, I'm considering whether I want to go out in nasty stuff (not dangerous), flying down to Solomons, or take another day in Cambridge and go to church, instead. Go for the prayers! :-) |
October 26 - What A Drag!
"Brian Whatcott" wrote
a tone so civil Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip. |
October 26 - What A Drag!
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:38:41 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: Hi, Jeff, and Group, I probably shouldn't continue with this, as my name is already mud Nope. Many here appreciate your journals, even the snipers. Just the nature of usenet. My compliments to you for your level-headedness in handling them, among your other travails. --Vic |
October 26 - What A Drag!
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:38:41 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: Hi, Jeff, and Group, I probably shouldn't continue with this, as my name is already mud Nope. Many here appreciate your journals, even the snipers. Just the nature of usenet. My compliments to you for your level-headedness in handling them, among your other travails. --Vic And for sharing your adventures with us. Richard |
October 26 - What A Drag!
On Oct 28, 8:15 am, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote: "Brian Whatcott" wrote a tone so civil Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip. Ernie & Brian: Ah,, come on guys. I dont get to be an ass hole any place else. To be honest I have had a gut full of collegial congeniality. To be honest Skip reminds me too much of who Ive had to work with for the past 16 years. Well meaning, likable guys who go to church, smile and nod their heads then completely ignore some petty good advice from some pretty smart guys that post here (me excluded). I find it refreshing to say it the way it is. I wish for once he would just tell me to go get ****ed. I enjoyed someone's description of this place a few weeks ago. I can t remember the analogy but something close to, is like a bar that doesn't close and will let anybody make a fool of themselves without getting kicked out. I thought that was a right-on description. As far as my experience goes it may be a bit different than most yachters. I spent some time working with my Swedish step dad who commercial fished his 62' dragger off WA/OR; GOM diver mostly on scrap jobs (salvage) 10'-320'; American, Polish, Russian, Korean, Japanese factory trawlers in Bearing Sea. So I got to see lots of different ways to tie stuff together. I am by no means knowledgeable about anchoring. I've just seen lots of different ways to get a job done. Combine these experiences with my total lack of civil demeanor in this place makes for some pretty outlandish statements. Skip asked, what kind of shakels do I use attaching road to chain, chain to anchor. Two words: 1) Trawlex Grade 100 chain to anchor. Theyre cheep, small, and strong ie G100 compared to G40, an not galvanized. So I just swap it out once a year when I inspect my ground tackle. If a 400' factory trawler uses them to drag a 100 MT bag of Pollock out of the Bering Sea I think its good enough for my needs. 2) Nylite thimble (Samson) road to chain connection. If you don't know about these pretty PLEASE go to this link and take a look. The USCG use them on OR/WA/AK life boats. http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/cm2004.pdf and no.... it wont go through your gypsy. But then I get a bullet proof 95-100% connection. And no I don't use three strand nylon for road. I use nylon double braid. Although I might go to some of the 12 plait products soon. Very easy/fast to splice and still get 10 percent stretch at 30% load. Oh, and tough as nails. Oh, and CHEAPER! There are lots of ways to do stuff. Just got to stay out of West Marine and Cruising World. So to all a sincere apology. Just don't look for a change any time soon in my phatic conversation style. Bombastic Bob |
October 26 - What A Drag!
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:15:17 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:38:41 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: Hi, Jeff, and Group, I probably shouldn't continue with this, as my name is already mud Nope. Many here appreciate your journals, even the snipers. Just the nature of usenet. My compliments to you for your level-headedness in handling them, among your other travails. --Vic What he said. Brian W |
October 26 - What A Drag!
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:15:04 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote: "Brian Whatcott" wrote a tone so civil Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip. It was a benefit of the doubt thing. I know where you're comnig from. Brian W |
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