otnmbrd wrote:

Not sure what your getting at here.
What I was referring to, was the destabilizing effect of all that water
in high areas .... loss of stability due to high weight, coupled with
loss of stability due to "free surface effect".
There are two types of stabilizers, employed on ships .... active ( gyro
controlled fins), and passive ( such as FLUME - doubt QM2 is using Flume).
The flume system uses water in thwartship tanks (preferably up high) to
counter rolling .... basically a moving weight, or, another way to look
at it, turning free surface into an advantage.
I don't know of any ships which store water to use in a gravity feed to
supply fire mains.

The power used with fins, in no way affects the power available to the
mains, to drive the ship .... their adverse affect will be drag related.

Their serendipitous, synergystic effect, hardly adverse.

Stabiliser fins are flipper propulsors, too, if programmed right.


Terry Spragg wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:


That could be a good thing ...... all that water, all that high up .....


Just think, anti roll weights up high, water stored for fire
fighting by gravity feed. Stabilisers use some power to stop
rolling, imagine instead the power used to move high
counterweights to stop rolling? The power used in the anti roll
stabilisers control the scavanging of energy from the forward
motion of the ship to stabilise the hull. How much power is
actually required to stabilize the liner, counting the loss to
forward propulsion? Are the stabs programmed to recover
propulsive energy in advantageous postures?

Does the concept also work for skyscrapers, to charge gravity
powered fire sprinklers while stopping earthquake and wind
induced motion? Sloppy water couplings and hydroplaning bearings
would leak water recycled for evaporative air conditioning,
replacing the action of trees lost to the ground site, while
allowing some form of 'natural' waterfall for gardens aloft in
the skyscraper, capable of doubling as waterslide escape routes.
Add a few mountain goats, climbing walls and mountain flora, and
you have got an environment for a large dwelling complex housing
workers and industry whilst reducing commuting impacts, even
saving wage requirements.

Serendipity?


--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Spamspoof salad by spamchock TM - SofDevCo ®

Terry Spragg wrote:

Their serendipitous, synergystic effect, hardly adverse.

Like, totally Zen, dude.

Stabiliser fins are flipper propulsors, too, if programmed right.

Yeah, OK. Can I get that in shareware?

Rick

Rick wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote:

Their serendipitous, synergystic effect, hardly adverse.

Like, totally Zen, dude.

Stabiliser fins are flipper propulsors, too, if programmed right.

Yeah, OK. Can I get that in shareware?

Rick

Shure thing, dude. You do the engineering study calculation of
losses and gains, etc, where we show that programming the
flippers to recycle roll energy, saving fuel for propulsion is
financially beneficial, and write a letter to convince the
owners to pay me to rewrite the software controlling the fins,
and I will give you half of the proceeds. Is that shareware
enough for you? Saving even one percent of the fuel used on the
QEII is a lot of money.

Of course, if they come back and say that that concept was their
intellectual property from 20 years ago, and sue you for exposing
trade secrets, you are on your own.

--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Spamspoof salad by spamchock TM - SofDevCo ®

Terry Spragg wrote:

... [Spraggonics snipped] ...

Terry, good to hear from you again. Hope the new year finds you well. BTW,
I'm sure you'll agree it's a big relief that reading _all_ the messages here
is not compulsory.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Terry Spragg wrote:

... [Spraggonics snipped] ...

Terry, good to hear from you again. Hope the new year finds you well. BTW,
I'm sure you'll agree it's a big relief that reading _all_ the messages here
is not compulsory.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Terry Spragg wrote:

Shure thing, dude. You do the engineering study calculation of
losses and gains, etc, where we show that programming the
flippers to recycle roll energy, saving fuel for propulsion is
financially beneficial, and write a letter to convince the
owners to pay me to rewrite the software controlling the fins,
and I will give you half of the proceeds. Is that shareware
enough for you? Saving even one percent of the fuel used on the
QEII is a lot of money.

What are you talking about?

"The power used in the anti roll stabilisers control
the scavanging of energy from the forward motion of
the ship to stabilise the hull."

What the F are you talking about?

Of course, if they come back and say that that concept was their
intellectual property from 20 years ago, and sue you for exposing
trade secrets, you are on your own.

What? The trade secret to some kind of perpetual motion machine?

Think about it for a second ... "scavenging" energy from the
forward motion is called slowing the ship down to get some
of the power back that you put into it to speed it up to
begin with. Why don't you just give me the money instead.

Rick

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:49:44 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote:

Shure thing, dude. You do the engineering study calculation of
losses and gains, etc, where we show that programming the
flippers to recycle roll energy, saving fuel for propulsion is
financially beneficial, and write a letter to convince the
owners to pay me to rewrite the software controlling the fins,
and I will give you half of the proceeds. Is that shareware
enough for you? Saving even one percent of the fuel used on the
QEII is a lot of money.

What are you talking about?

"The power used in the anti roll stabilisers control
the scavanging of energy from the forward motion of
the ship to stabilise the hull."

What the F are you talking about?
////.

Rick

He's talking about bartering some roll momentum into forward momentum.
He may come on weird at times, but I think he may have a (small) point
on this one.

Brian W

Brian Whatcott wrote:

He's talking about bartering some roll momentum into forward momentum.
He may come on weird at times, but I think he may have a (small) point
on this one.

By "... programming the flippers to recycle roll energy,
saving fuel for propulsion ..."?

Think about that one for a moment.

Rick

Brian Whatcott wrote:
He's talking about bartering some roll momentum into forward momentum.
He may come on weird at times, but I think he may have a (small) point
on this one.


Rick wrote:
By "... programming the flippers to recycle roll energy,
saving fuel for propulsion ..."?

Think about that one for a moment.

OK......
It'd work. That's not to say it would be a net saving of energy, but the
anti-roll fins already do their thing at the cost of added drag.
"Programming" them to net forward thrust might not be possible except at low
speeds, and increased roll (although they would still dampen it), but it
would work.

Regards
Doug King

Brian Whatcott wrote:
He's talking about bartering some roll momentum into forward momentum.
He may come on weird at times, but I think he may have a (small) point
on this one.


Rick wrote:
By "... programming the flippers to recycle roll energy,
saving fuel for propulsion ..."?

Think about that one for a moment.

OK......
It'd work. That's not to say it would be a net saving of energy, but the
anti-roll fins already do their thing at the cost of added drag.
"Programming" them to net forward thrust might not be possible except at low
speeds, and increased roll (although they would still dampen it), but it
would work.

Regards
Doug King