"R" == Rick writes:

R Steven Shelikoff wrote:
IOW, even if the pump is past the filter drawing fuel through it, the
filter is still in "pressure" mode because it's really the atmospheric
pressure pushing fuel through the filter.

R The difference is that if the pump suction pulls water and fuel
R directly from the tank it will do an excellent job of mixing it up to
R form an emulsion that will not filter out very effectively.


R The path should be, a basket strainer to catch the chunks, a
R separarator/filter to eliminate the bulk of the water and the smaller
R suspended particles, the pump, then the finer stages of filtration.


R This is all assuming you don't have access to a centrifuge which is
R really the best way to handle the process.


R Rick

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there. Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.

--
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Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there.

Alfa Laval makes a cute little unit that will process about
170 liters/hour. Alfa sells it mounted on a cart with pump
and controls for use as a portable oil polishing unit. The
centrifuge is available by itself.

I would love to have one but the cost is a bit too high to
justify its use on a pleasure boat.

Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.

A "spinner" that worked off the oil itself? Those things are
great. Have used them on several diesel generator sets and
they do an excellent job. A little trick to make them easier
to clean, line the bowl with a single layer of newspaper.

Rick

"R" == Rick writes:

R Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:
Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there.

R Alfa Laval makes a cute little unit that will process about 170
R liters/hour. Alfa sells it mounted on a cart with pump and controls
R for use as a portable oil polishing unit. The centrifuge is available
R by itself.

Interesting.

R I would love to have one but the cost is a bit too high to justify its
R use on a pleasure boat.

Yes, you're probably right, unless you could share it with others,
being a portable unit.
I was thinking of a small unit which could be permanently attached to
the fuel system and used either for polishing or for processing the
fuel when filling a day tank.

Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.

R A "spinner" that worked off the oil itself? Those things are
R great. Have used them on several diesel generator sets and they do an
R excellent job. A little trick to make them easier to clean, line the
R bowl with a single layer of newspaper.

Yes, it used the oil pressure to spin the bowl, and you had to
manually clean the inside of the bowl. The newspaper trick would have
been great, but I did not think of it 25 years ago...

R Rick


--
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"R" == Rick writes:

R Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:
Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there.

R Alfa Laval makes a cute little unit that will process about 170
R liters/hour. Alfa sells it mounted on a cart with pump and controls
R for use as a portable oil polishing unit. The centrifuge is available
R by itself.

Interesting.

R I would love to have one but the cost is a bit too high to justify its
R use on a pleasure boat.

Yes, you're probably right, unless you could share it with others,
being a portable unit.
I was thinking of a small unit which could be permanently attached to
the fuel system and used either for polishing or for processing the
fuel when filling a day tank.

Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.

R A "spinner" that worked off the oil itself? Those things are
R great. Have used them on several diesel generator sets and they do an
R excellent job. A little trick to make them easier to clean, line the
R bowl with a single layer of newspaper.

Yes, it used the oil pressure to spin the bowl, and you had to
manually clean the inside of the bowl. The newspaper trick would have
been great, but I did not think of it 25 years ago...

R Rick


--
This page intentionally left blank

Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there.

Alfa Laval makes a cute little unit that will process about
170 liters/hour. Alfa sells it mounted on a cart with pump
and controls for use as a portable oil polishing unit. The
centrifuge is available by itself.

I would love to have one but the cost is a bit too high to
justify its use on a pleasure boat.

Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.

A "spinner" that worked off the oil itself? Those things are
great. Have used them on several diesel generator sets and
they do an excellent job. A little trick to make them easier
to clean, line the bowl with a single layer of newspaper.

Rick

On 08 Jan 2004 11:23:20 +0100, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
wrote:

"R" == Rick writes:
///

R This is all assuming you don't have access to a centrifuge which is
R really the best way to handle the process.


R Rick

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there. Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.


Now *that* is an interesting question!
The pneumatic tube freezer/heater comes to mind immediately.

I can't recall the appropriate name - but the principle is incredibly
simple: introduce the pressurized fluid tangentially to a short
cylinder, and at one end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a
washer with a central hole - the lighter fraction goes through here.
At the other end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a central
barrier, with an annular gap - so the heavier fraction goes through
here. You can make them with plumbing fittings and minimal
machining or filing.
With pressurized air, these gadgets separate cooled air from heated
air (though the power efficiency is not compretitive with
regular fridges...)

With pressurized fuel, this gadget ought to do a very creditable job
of spinning out water and particles....

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

You are probably thinking of a Hilsch vortex tube. I agree, they are
neat devices. For seaparation, a hydrocyclone would also be a
possibility, but I imaginge they do not get rid of the really fine
particles as efficiently as a centrifuge.

While looking around yesterday, I stumbled over an interesting device
here, which has no moving parts and works along the same lines:

http://www.quantum-dynamics.com/Centrifugal.html


"BW" == Brian Whatcott writes:

BW On 08 Jan 2004 11:23:20 +0100, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
BW wrote:

"R" == Rick writes:
BW ///

R This is all assuming you don't have access to a centrifuge which is
R really the best way to handle the process.


R Rick

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there. Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.


BW Now *that* is an interesting question!
BW The pneumatic tube freezer/heater comes to mind immediately.

BW I can't recall the appropriate name - but the principle is incredibly
BW simple: introduce the pressurized fluid tangentially to a short
BW cylinder, and at one end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a
BW washer with a central hole - the lighter fraction goes through here.
BW At the other end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a central
BW barrier, with an annular gap - so the heavier fraction goes through
BW here. You can make them with plumbing fittings and minimal
BW machining or filing.
BW With pressurized air, these gadgets separate cooled air from heated
BW air (though the power efficiency is not compretitive with
BW regular fridges...)

BW With pressurized fuel, this gadget ought to do a very creditable job
BW of spinning out water and particles....

BW Brian Whatcott Altus OK

--
This page intentionally left blank

You are probably thinking of a Hilsch vortex tube. I agree, they are
neat devices. For seaparation, a hydrocyclone would also be a
possibility, but I imaginge they do not get rid of the really fine
particles as efficiently as a centrifuge.

While looking around yesterday, I stumbled over an interesting device
here, which has no moving parts and works along the same lines:

http://www.quantum-dynamics.com/Centrifugal.html


"BW" == Brian Whatcott writes:

BW On 08 Jan 2004 11:23:20 +0100, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
BW wrote:

"R" == Rick writes:
BW ///

R This is all assuming you don't have access to a centrifuge which is
R really the best way to handle the process.


R Rick

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there. Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.


BW Now *that* is an interesting question!
BW The pneumatic tube freezer/heater comes to mind immediately.

BW I can't recall the appropriate name - but the principle is incredibly
BW simple: introduce the pressurized fluid tangentially to a short
BW cylinder, and at one end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a
BW washer with a central hole - the lighter fraction goes through here.
BW At the other end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a central
BW barrier, with an annular gap - so the heavier fraction goes through
BW here. You can make them with plumbing fittings and minimal
BW machining or filing.
BW With pressurized air, these gadgets separate cooled air from heated
BW air (though the power efficiency is not compretitive with
BW regular fridges...)

BW With pressurized fuel, this gadget ought to do a very creditable job
BW of spinning out water and particles....

BW Brian Whatcott Altus OK

--
This page intentionally left blank

On 08 Jan 2004 11:23:20 +0100, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
wrote:

"R" == Rick writes:
///

R This is all assuming you don't have access to a centrifuge which is
R really the best way to handle the process.


R Rick

Do you happen to know if there is any centrifugal separator on the
market suited to small boats? I cannot really think of any technical
reasons why not, but perhaps the market isn't there. Btw., I once had
a Scania truck diesel engine which had a centrifuge for its
lubrication oil. Judging from the amount of gunk it separated out of
the oil, it worked very well.


Now *that* is an interesting question!
The pneumatic tube freezer/heater comes to mind immediately.

I can't recall the appropriate name - but the principle is incredibly
simple: introduce the pressurized fluid tangentially to a short
cylinder, and at one end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a
washer with a central hole - the lighter fraction goes through here.
At the other end of the cylinder, the spinning fluid meets a central
barrier, with an annular gap - so the heavier fraction goes through
here. You can make them with plumbing fittings and minimal
machining or filing.
With pressurized air, these gadgets separate cooled air from heated
air (though the power efficiency is not compretitive with
regular fridges...)

With pressurized fuel, this gadget ought to do a very creditable job
of spinning out water and particles....

Brian Whatcott Altus OK