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On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:57 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.

Thank you.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.

Helping a fried rebuild an Amel Sharki 41' ketch so we can head for
Bahamas in late March through the Daytona Beach-Charleston race in
late May. Its engine replacement has been delayed until Monday. I'll
be working in the bilge while the engine guys got 'er out of the
hole....(c;

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

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Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:57 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.


Thank you.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.


Helping a fried rebuild an Amel Sharki 41' ketch so we can head for
Bahamas in late March through the Daytona Beach-Charleston race in
late May. Its engine replacement has been delayed until Monday. I'll
be working in the bilge while the engine guys got 'er out of the
hole....(c;

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Bahamas!! well done; have a great time, we're only here for a short
while so enjoy to the max at every opportunity.

Imagine if a mate wanted you to clean out & make spotless the grease
pit in his garage while he was getting the new car engine ready:-) But
when it's the grease pit in a nice boat?? suddenly it's almost
enjoyable; almost:-)

I'm so glad all is well with you please check in sometimes & say hello.
I mean it, many here miss your posts. All we've got to do now is get
Marcus to check in from time to time:-)

Best Regards,

Karen

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:37:57 +1100, K Smith
wrote:


Great we all miss you of course but I understand. Again I do apologise
for the cross posting of my Harry wars, I'll be more careful.


Thank you.

Take care hope the sailing is going well.


Helping a fried rebuild an Amel Sharki 41' ketch so we can head for
Bahamas in late March through the Daytona Beach-Charleston race in
late May. Its engine replacement has been delayed until Monday. I'll
be working in the bilge while the engine guys got 'er out of the
hole....(c;

Larry W4CSC

NNNN

Bahamas!! well done; have a great time, we're only here for a short
while so enjoy to the max at every opportunity.

Imagine if a mate wanted you to clean out & make spotless the grease
pit in his garage while he was getting the new car engine ready:-) But
when it's the grease pit in a nice boat?? suddenly it's almost
enjoyable; almost:-)

I'm so glad all is well with you please check in sometimes & say hello.
I mean it, many here miss your posts. All we've got to do now is get
Marcus to check in from time to time:-)

Best Regards,

Karen

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in
:

On 25 Dec 2003 17:17:09 GMT, (Karl Denninger)
wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator...
we were considering buying one...

Don't.

Buy a Kohler. 5 year, 2000 hour recreational warranty, INCLUDING
REMOVE AND REPLACE LABOR.

You can't beat that ANYWHERE.

I've owned one for 2+ years now, and have over 600 hours on it. It has
been a 100% trouble-free piece of equipment. I'd buy another in a
heartbeat, and recommend the unit to everyone I come across who needs
one.

This note has such a ring of confidence about it.... reminds me that I
bought an econobox with a 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty.
And would you believe it, I had no mentionable problems in ten years.

Manufacturers who offer impressive sounding warranties usually have a
distinct hunch it ain't gonna cost them the ranch. That's my
experience anyway.

Brian W

I couldn't agree more. One of my favorite stories is about my swim
ladder warranty. The ladder is made by Windline and at one point it
lost a large "C-ring" that stopped one of the step levels from
descending. BlueJacket was in the Caribbean when this happened and I e-
mailed them. I explained the situation and they asked me to return the
unit to them. I wrote that hauling a swim ladder back with me would be
very difficult and re-stated that I would just like the C-ring and that
I would replace it. They stated that replacing it was very difficult
and that they would simply replace the entire unit! They shipped me an
entire new ladder and didn't ask for anything back.

What an amazing company! I would recommend them to anyone and would
purchase from them in a heart-beat. I love companies who stand behind
their products almost to a fault, but they build customer loyalty.

When you pay "marine" prices for products I believe that those companies
who don't provide an appropriate level of service should be exposed. I
think that all too often we sailors/cruisers take it up the tail and
expect that because the products are exposed to marine environments that
they will fail prematurely. For the additional cost that we pay for
these products, they shouldn't. Sure, if you've beat upon a component,
that's one thing, but if it's simply in a marine environment, that's a
completely different beast. I think that we need to hold the
manufacturers to a higher standard and demand better products.

Maybe it's just me, but I sure believe this. I can tell that some of
you think that I went too far with my generator, but I believe that I
made things better for future customers. I can assure you that I
*didn't* make any money on the deal. I didn't even break even. I
pursued them because I felt that it was the right thing to do. I agreed
to end it because I'm headed around the world and couldn't afford the
time or expense to come back and continue to litigate this. You can
disagree with me all that you want, but it wasn't your dollar on the
table. It was mine. It's quite interesting what people would do who
don't have any money or time invested.

Anyhow, I'm about to head out of here. I wish everyone a wonderful new
year!

Fair seas and smooth anchorages -- Geoff

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in
:

On 25 Dec 2003 17:17:09 GMT, (Karl Denninger)
wrote:

That [Fischer-Panda] generator...
we were considering buying one...

Don't.

Buy a Kohler. 5 year, 2000 hour recreational warranty, INCLUDING
REMOVE AND REPLACE LABOR.

You can't beat that ANYWHERE.

I've owned one for 2+ years now, and have over 600 hours on it. It has
been a 100% trouble-free piece of equipment. I'd buy another in a
heartbeat, and recommend the unit to everyone I come across who needs
one.

This note has such a ring of confidence about it.... reminds me that I
bought an econobox with a 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty.
And would you believe it, I had no mentionable problems in ten years.

Manufacturers who offer impressive sounding warranties usually have a
distinct hunch it ain't gonna cost them the ranch. That's my
experience anyway.

Brian W

I couldn't agree more. One of my favorite stories is about my swim
ladder warranty. The ladder is made by Windline and at one point it
lost a large "C-ring" that stopped one of the step levels from
descending. BlueJacket was in the Caribbean when this happened and I e-
mailed them. I explained the situation and they asked me to return the
unit to them. I wrote that hauling a swim ladder back with me would be
very difficult and re-stated that I would just like the C-ring and that
I would replace it. They stated that replacing it was very difficult
and that they would simply replace the entire unit! They shipped me an
entire new ladder and didn't ask for anything back.

What an amazing company! I would recommend them to anyone and would
purchase from them in a heart-beat. I love companies who stand behind
their products almost to a fault, but they build customer loyalty.

When you pay "marine" prices for products I believe that those companies
who don't provide an appropriate level of service should be exposed. I
think that all too often we sailors/cruisers take it up the tail and
expect that because the products are exposed to marine environments that
they will fail prematurely. For the additional cost that we pay for
these products, they shouldn't. Sure, if you've beat upon a component,
that's one thing, but if it's simply in a marine environment, that's a
completely different beast. I think that we need to hold the
manufacturers to a higher standard and demand better products.

Maybe it's just me, but I sure believe this. I can tell that some of
you think that I went too far with my generator, but I believe that I
made things better for future customers. I can assure you that I
*didn't* make any money on the deal. I didn't even break even. I
pursued them because I felt that it was the right thing to do. I agreed
to end it because I'm headed around the world and couldn't afford the
time or expense to come back and continue to litigate this. You can
disagree with me all that you want, but it wasn't your dollar on the
table. It was mine. It's quite interesting what people would do who
don't have any money or time invested.

Anyhow, I'm about to head out of here. I wish everyone a wonderful new
year!

Fair seas and smooth anchorages -- Geoff

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

I have a FP 12kW genset and out of interest read of Geoffs experience.
I have to say that from the evidence on the www from both FP and GS,
the installation does sound rather suspect and that water was being
drawn back into the engine. I have a couple of observations. FP
units are used by most Formula 1 racing teams in their motor homes and
many outside TV broadcasting vehicles. If they were not inherently
reliable, I am sure that another manufacturer would be used.
If you are going to have an engine, or genset in a boat why not follow
the KISS principle and use keel cooling and mirror how your car engine
is cooled by the environment in which it operates. No raw salt water
circuit at all - and put a water trap into the exhaust line so that
any water in the line does not get back to the engine.
I think he did too well - but I guess that is the sue anything/anyone
climate in the USA - rather than remotely accept any personal
responsibility in life.

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

I have a FP 12kW genset and out of interest read of Geoffs experience.
I have to say that from the evidence on the www from both FP and GS,
the installation does sound rather suspect and that water was being
drawn back into the engine. I have a couple of observations. FP
units are used by most Formula 1 racing teams in their motor homes and
many outside TV broadcasting vehicles. If they were not inherently
reliable, I am sure that another manufacturer would be used.
If you are going to have an engine, or genset in a boat why not follow
the KISS principle and use keel cooling and mirror how your car engine
is cooled by the environment in which it operates. No raw salt water
circuit at all - and put a water trap into the exhaust line so that
any water in the line does not get back to the engine.
I think he did too well - but I guess that is the sue anything/anyone
climate in the USA - rather than remotely accept any personal
responsibility in life.

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:08:00 +0000, Grouch wrote:

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.


http://forum.fischerpanda.de

Fischer Panda Owner's Forum Shutting Down
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:08:00 +0000, Grouch wrote:

I would like to thank all of the participants of the group. There
have been about 2000 visitors to the site and 86 posts in 29 topics.
Quite a bit of good information was posted, and I would like to
suggest to Fischer Panda that they consider creating their own forum.


http://forum.fischerpanda.de