"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...

However, I note that some of the threads occasioned by our
commentaries have gone over 70 posts; most seem to make it to a half
dozen almost without notice and many get into double digits.

I call that a lot of press.

And, I agree, many are supportive. There are, however, those which
are not. Yet, as noted, in most cases where there's information
included, rather than just ad hominem, I look and learn. Most times
I've already done it, but in the interest of trying to limit my
already rampant logorhhea, have not mentioned it, and to respond to
them doesn't further the discussion, particularly when my access is
limited.

Thus, before I even saw the suggestion that I post about a boring
trip, this (the subject line above) went up. I think that prolly
qualified...

L8R

Skip, the nutcase...



Skip, have you worked out an emergency steering plan, and do you know how to
steer by sails alone? Two suggestions I made which may or may not have been
taken as an "attack" (they were not submitted as such).

Karin

On Aug 16, 9:05 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

oups.com...





However, I note that some of the threads occasioned by our
commentaries have gone over 70 posts; most seem to make it to a half
dozen almost without notice and many get into double digits.

I call that a lot of press.


Not to beat a dead horse, but I had no idea. Cleaning up my mailbox, I
see the digests (I get my rbc in 25post digests or daily, whichever is
smaller), and happened to look at the group on googlegroups. A
staggering number of the threads are over 30, let alone a dozen,
posts..

Check the new posts since a month ago when I started on this trip.
Count the number of posts where either we originated or someone else
started a thread about us. What's the percentage of total in that
time? OY!

I forget the promoter in the early last century who said it doesn't
matter whether it's bad publicity, or good publicity, so long as it's
out there. That's not at all my intent - but I am still bemused by by
the blizzard...


Skip, have you worked out an emergency steering plan, and do you know how to
steer by sails alone? Two suggestions I made which may or may not have been
taken as an "attack" (they were not submitted as such).

Karin

Hi, Karin, and thanks for the note - and I knew the intent and tone :
{))

Yes, we have. We know how to steer by sails alone - being a prior
windsurfer helped - and do that, sometimes, when we're out in the
open, with the rudder centered.

We also have an emergency tiller. The Captain with us in our recent
failure asked if I had one and if I knew where it was. I do, and did,
and while it's a real pain in the butt to do, if it were warranted
(not where other remedies were at hand), we'd use it. It would
require one in the aft cabin steering and another atop relaying info,
so it's not the best setup. FWIW in another thread, I advised the
oncoming containership that I was not under command, but would work
out how to get out of his way. They were grateful for the info and my
success at doing so. My bad for not having the two black balls to
hand, but I was excused, being quickly out of a navigation channel.

Warps, buckets, and other drag devices can work as well. Depending on
where we were in the failure, my going under with a brace and bit (I
have a full selection aboard) with the hookah, and holing all that
lovely repair work I did on the rudder, passing a line through same,
with double stops on the immediate exteriors, with the lines led up to
winches would be another. Quite frankly, as the hydraulics would have
to be disconnected for the ET to work, anyway, this would be
considerably preferable to me as a means of steering, as it would be
considerably more powerful than arms on a tiller, and would not
compromise vision for the helmsperson.

The dink aside on a hip-tow would be adequate for close maneuvering in
light wind or current, but not otherwise. Its 15HP is prolly about a
quarter or so of the aux, but not really suited to moving 20 tons
around with any authority.

As an aside, I need to send you and Roger a picture of the new running
rigging on our genny and furler :{))

Thanks for the concern...

L8R

Skip - off to the showers so I can get back on the road, first to the
new alternator belt, and then up the ICW.

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
ups.com...
[about emergency rudder/steering]
Depending on
where we were in the failure, my going under with a brace and bit (I
have a full selection aboard) with the hookah, and holing all that
lovely repair work I did on the rudder, passing a line through same,
with double stops on the immediate exteriors, with the lines led up to
winches would be another.

Skip, if you are serious about this particular solution (and it isn't a bad
one), I have read about people who pre-drilled the hole through the rudder,
then filled it with putty, or something else that would be easy to punch out
at sea. It could make a difference -- I once tried to remove a line from my
prop while at sea in moderate swells, and finally decided that the danger
wasn't worth it. We ended up sailing a couple of days until we reached land
and could tuck into a sheltered spot to do the job. I couldn't imagine
trying to drill through the rudder in similar conditions.

Whatever emergency system you have, you ought to try it in easy conditions
to make sure that all the pieces fit. Of course this isn't always
practical, but do test what you can.

- Paul
- S/V VALIS

On Aug 18, 9:29 pm, "Paul" wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

ups.com...
[about emergency rudder/steering]

Depending on
where we were in the failure, my going under with a brace and bit (I
have a full selection aboard) with the hookah, and holing all that
lovely repair work I did on the rudder, passing a line through same,
with double stops on the immediate exteriors, with the lines led up to
winches would be another.

Skip, if you are serious about this particular solution (and it isn't a bad
one), - Paul
- S/V VALIS


Hello Paul:

Please do not encourage this type of behavior of a 60+ yo retired
banker who is a cardiac patient.

I did underwater work for years. My last job was an emergency stern
tube patch on the Gae Chug Ho, a 600' Korean fish processor. They
needed to repack the stuffing box. They had a small leak: only 10 mt/
hr. This was just south of the Pribilof Islands (Bering Sea) many
Novembers ago. It kicked my ass and I was a very fit 32.

Please don't encourage Skip to jump over the side and expect him to
drill a hole using both hands. Do you really expect him to wrap his
legs around the rudder while doing the equivalent of a 20 minute sit-
up (crunch) and make that happen ??!?! I don't think he has the
abdominals to pull it off.

I agree with you. The time for such rudder mods is IN THE YARD!

Bob
(Divers Institute of Technology 107/80)

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 18, 9:29 pm, "Paul" wrote:
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message

ups.com...
[about emergency rudder/steering]

Depending on
where we were in the failure, my going under with a brace and bit (I
have a full selection aboard) with the hookah, and holing all that
lovely repair work I did on the rudder, passing a line through same,
with double stops on the immediate exteriors, with the lines led up to
winches would be another.

Skip, if you are serious about this particular solution (and it isn't a
bad
one), - Paul
- S/V VALIS


Hello Paul:

Please do not encourage this type of behavior of a 60+ yo retired
banker who is a cardiac patient.

I did underwater work for years. My last job was an emergency stern
tube patch on the Gae Chug Ho, a 600' Korean fish processor. They
needed to repack the stuffing box. They had a small leak: only 10 mt/
hr. This was just south of the Pribilof Islands (Bering Sea) many
Novembers ago. It kicked my ass and I was a very fit 32.

Please don't encourage Skip to jump over the side and expect him to
drill a hole using both hands. Do you really expect him to wrap his
legs around the rudder while doing the equivalent of a 20 minute sit-
up (crunch) and make that happen ??!?! I don't think he has the
abdominals to pull it off.

I agree with you. The time for such rudder mods is IN THE YARD!

Bob
(Divers Institute of Technology 107/80)

Bob, I will let Skip make his own decisions about his ability. It sounds
like you and I are in agreement, though, and I was trying to point out the
difficulty of drilling a hole in the rudder at sea. The "putty trick" will
make the job slightly less impossible, but in reality this is something you
would only attempt in calm conditions, or in extremis.

For what it's worth, my emergency steering options a
1) An emergency tiller which drops through the cockpit sole onto the
rudderpost. I have blocks and lines ready to connect to help control the
tiller.
2) An "MRUD" emergency rudder for my Monitor windvane. I have a tiller
attachment for the windvane.

These have both been tested, admittedly not during difficult conditions.

-Paul
-S/V VALIS

Bob, I will let Skip make his own decisions about his ability.

Of course.

It sounds
like you and I are in agreement,

Absolutly..!

though, and I was trying to point out the
difficulty of drilling a hole in the rudder at sea.


Id say near impossible even for those who dive for dollars.


but in reality this is something you
would only attempt in calm conditions, or in extremis.


Again, with no fear of making an ass of my self I'll make a blanket
statment: extemis is an absolute NO time. Assuming not fun weather.


For what it's worth, my emergency steering options a

Wise, prudent, and solid judgment.

Yes, there are ample methods to make a boat go the way ya want. Those
you mentioned are great!. Ever toss a warp/drogue/tire/3'd bouy-bumper
off the side while tied to a bow cleat?


Chris

-Paul
-S/V VALIS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:05:05 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
roups.com...

However, I note that some of the threads occasioned by our
commentaries have gone over 70 posts; most seem to make it to a half
dozen almost without notice and many get into double digits.

I call that a lot of press.

And, I agree, many are supportive. There are, however, those which
are not. Yet, as noted, in most cases where there's information
included, rather than just ad hominem, I look and learn. Most times
I've already done it, but in the interest of trying to limit my
already rampant logorhhea, have not mentioned it, and to respond to
them doesn't further the discussion, particularly when my access is
limited.

Thus, before I even saw the suggestion that I post about a boring
trip, this (the subject line above) went up. I think that prolly
qualified...

L8R

Skip, the nutcase...



Skip, have you worked out an emergency steering plan, and do you know how to
steer by sails alone? Two suggestions I made which may or may not have been
taken as an "attack" (they were not submitted as such).

Karin

Skip, with the possible efforts of one individual I don' read
responses to your posts as slanging you., but rather (I admit
sometimes strongly put) words of advise. You have had steering
troubles. Do you have an emergency steering device" apparently not -
you should have.
Your generator belt problems have been discussed ad nauseam.

I still can't figure out whether you have an accurate volt meter or
are depending on black boxes to tell you the state of your batteries
but I'd suggest logging onto Trojan, or other battery sites and
getting as much knowledge of how a battery actually charges - or ask
Larry. Because it is, in reality, a rather long drawn out chemical
process. Not just dumping a bunch of amps into the system for a while.

The only thing I've read where you have really made a bad decision is
when you ran aground. You went into a narrow channel. Don't do it. If
the weather is bad then get into the deepest water you can it really
is safer. I rode out the Thai tsunami in 100 ft. of water and didn;t
even know anything had happened until people started calling on
channel 16.

You'll probably run aground again - anyone who says that they haven't
is either a liar or will run aground tomorrow. You'll probably screw
up again, we all have done it. Just keep shuffling along and in a
while you'll be as competent as any of us and probably more competent
then some individuals I can name.





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Aug 17, 8:05 am, wrote:

Skip, with the possible efforts of one individual I don' read
responses to your posts as slanging you., but rather (I admit
sometimes strongly put) words of advise. You have had steering
troubles. Do you have an emergency steering device" apparently not -
you should have.

As seen about contemporary to your posting - is that informative and/
or sufficient?

Your generator belt problems have been discussed ad nauseam.

Heh. LOL. No kidding :{))


I still can't figure out whether you have an accurate volt meter or
are depending on black boxes to tell you the state of your batteries
but I'd suggest logging onto Trojan, or other battery sites and
getting as much knowledge of how a battery actually charges - or ask
Larry. Because it is, in reality, a rather long drawn out chemical
process. Not just dumping a bunch of amps into the system for a while.

The only thing I've read where you have really made a bad decision is
when you ran aground. You went into a narrow channel. Don't do it. If
the weather is bad then get into the deepest water you can it really
is safer. I rode out the Thai tsunami in 100 ft. of water and didn;t
even know anything had happened until people started calling on
channel 16.

You'll probably run aground again - anyone who says that they haven't
is either a liar or will run aground tomorrow. You'll probably screw
up again, we all have done it. Just keep shuffling along and in a
while you'll be as competent as any of us and probably more competent
then some individuals I can name.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Hi, Bruce, and thanks for the kind comments.

I think I have reasonably good voltage reading stuff, and Larry has
been a tremendous resource, including visits to the boat as we were
sorting it all out. It's how we discovered the dead charger herein
elsewhere maligned :{)) The "black box" reads to the tenth of a volt
and amp, and my multimeter goes to hundredths. On my next SG reading
(only 5 of them in the last month), I'm also going to do a load test
(I have one of those in the tools inventory, too) - all prior ones
were positive; perhaps this one will show some weakness?

I expect find the bottom again, but I hope it's soft and kedgeable, or
responsive to tides, but I'd rather it not be any time soon. And,
we're still shuffling along...

Meanwhile, with the exception that I am about to, now, go out and
procure the right belt (and replacement) for our charging system,
everything else is performing as to spec. I believe new batteries are
in our future (well, aren't they always, eventually?), but that aside
it looks very much like things are in order. I'll also laser-align
the alternator in my next change, having recently brute-force eye-
measure aligned it from the 30 or so years of distortion of belt
tightening prior.

Meanwhile, don't dis Wilbur. He's very entertaining, and whether or
not it's Neal in disguise, it's plenty easy to filter if you don't
want to deal with it. However, the lengthy interchange suggests you
get as much out of it as he :{))

L8R

Skip, off to fan belts and then back on the ICW

Too bad you missed Alligator River Marina. If you can't get what you
need in Coinjock, Atlantic is the next best bet (right before the
Great Bridge Bridge). Although at the rate you are moving now, it's
probably too late for that.

When I read your last post to Bob, we were both taken aback by the
fuel usage - our boat which I think is a similar size to yours uses
only about 1 g/h

We have two ways to measure the fuel (one tank tender, and one a
stick) and two ways to measure the water (one a tank tender and one
sight tubes in the engine room0

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

Rosalie B. wrote in
:

[clip]

When I read your last post to Bob, we were both taken aback by the
fuel usage - our boat which I think is a similar size to yours uses
only about 1 g/h

[clip]
grandma Rosalie


He said that he uses ".8" (0.8) GPH. Methinks you missed the period.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org