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August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Well, not quite - our home is still our home, and very lovely, indeed,
with views from our cabin, on both sides, of the sea, as well as the privilege of not only taking meals, but, indeed, as well, sleeping with, the owner! So, not steerage accommodations. However... We left in fine order - well, other than the minor steering excitements to follow, thus the title. First, as we left the dock, it felt like we had no steering. With wheel flying and arms working the throttle for directional control, I managed to bring Flying Pig back to the dock against the strong current. A controlled crash, sort of, in that it wasn't pretty, but there was no damage to our or any other boats nor the docks. After securing the boat, we tested the steering and - ironically - found it to be operating normally. So, with my heart still racing, we gingerly set out again, and all appeared well. I set Otto (Otto Pilot, the electrical guy who does all the work on most cruises where keeping the boat pointed in a certain direction is concerned), and all appeared normal. Sloooowly I turned.... Well, not the boat, but the mystery teaser. The boat seemed to respond slowly, but made it each time I adjusted the direction with Otto. The way out of Charleston takes us past Ft. Sumter, and the shoals around it, and, even more exciting, the jetties which are either submerged all the time, or the (other) jetties which, at high tide, which was the time we passed, are barely visible. The weather service notwithstanding, despite the forecast of variable and extremely light winds, we had a crosswind of about 15 knots which, had the steering failed, would have blown us on to the rocks. So, I was hypervigilant about our course, and relieved to find that it seemed to be keeping up. However, it wasn't very good, and we set about dealing with contingencies, expecting failure at any moment. One of the potential contingencies was to drop the anchor and call for help. However, being in the middle of the channel is not a good place to do that at all, not to mention that it's pretty deep. Another was to call for a tow, but the same situation applied - being in the middle of an active shipping channel was not a good place to be for that exercise. So, we held on by our fingernails and made it outside the jetties. Meanwhile, we had a container ship bearing down on us. They'd seen our erratic behavior and wanted to make sure we saw them. We advised them that we'd had a bit of a steering issue but would be sure to be out of their way. After a failed attempt to go upwind, we managed to get out of the channel to the downwind side and advised the container ship that we were no longer a threat. Using the throttle and the locked-to-starboard rudder to keep us pointed relatively into the wind and waves, we called TowBoatUS, where I have an unlimited towing policy. They showed up in due course, and, the various excitements of being under tow in a shipping lane, the narrow cuts we had to traverse, and the lift bridge, all of which were helped by a vigorous current and wind, aside, it was very uneventful as we made our way to, and were tied up aside, Ross Marine in the extreme backwaters of the Intra-Coastal Waterway. Larry, our electrical buddy, had referred us to them, as that's where the boat he's mostly on gets all their work done. I'll spare you the gory details, but we'd had a hydraulic leak which caused all the excitement. Repairing that was a very simple matter in the end. Also, as is always the case, once we get to digging into some problem aboard, others surface. Thus, we discovered that there were some loose parts in the steering assemblies (again sparing you the gory details) which were, we feel, on correcting them, responsible for our difficulties in making the water stay out of the boat in the location in which the rudder post entered. So, in the end, we got a trip up the creek, seeing some beautiful countryside along the way, and the opportunity to stop and relax, and Joe got a ride back to City Marina with the tow operator, thus to get on his way back to his home. We had the longest and best night's sleep we've had in a great long while, because not only did we go to bed early, we had rain which started at 5AM, allowing it to remain dark until well after 9AM. I've not slept in to that degree in weeks. All the spilled hydraulic fluid is cleaned up, the steering is tightened to a degree I'm sure it's not been in months, perhaps longer, and our autopilot motor and pump are again secure. Cruising is boat repair in exotic locations... It's exotic here in that it's in the boonies both water and land-wise, but the people are marvelous, and despite the official policy of owners not being allowed to work on their boats, we were allowed to do the lion's share of the time-consuming items aboard, resulting in a professional oversight of the repair, but a relatively light bill. So, we're sitting tight for the moment, waiting for the rain to end and another weather window to open, and then we'll be on our way again. Here in the boonies, there's no internet access, but we discovered a couple of places along the way while being towed, and likely we'll anchor in Charleston so as to be ready early when we head out again, so whenever this shows up, you'll know that we found the internet! A postscript, rather than the new post: We left at 2:30 PM on the slack tide, beginning to fall as we made our way back down the way we'd come. We're now anchored off the City Marina, enjoying the free internet access all over this town, and posting and catching up. We'll leave in the same fashion, absent, we hope, any excitements, as before, but just a couple of days late. We'll again be without internet access for a couple of days but will try to check in with the Maritime Mobile net as we go tomorrow night. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message ups.com... Enjoying the continuing reports :-) Have you been practicing steering with sails only? Seems that this recent mishap would bring the need for that skill into the forefront. Other emergency steering methods include things like streaming warps from port or starboard as needed, or dragging buckets/drogues in the same manner. Karin |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:33:20 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: Have you been practicing steering with sails only? Seems that this recent mishap would bring the need for that skill into the forefront. Other emergency steering methods include things like streaming warps from port or starboard as needed, or dragging buckets/drogues in the same manner. All boats that enter the Newport-Bermuda race are required to demonstrate that they have a viable emergency steering system. These can get pretty creative, including such things as cabin doors lashed to spinnaker poles, etc. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Skip,
1) Don't you have an emergency tiller that can be used for exactly this type of situation? 2) I hate to tell you this, but the ICW does not count as an exotic location. All that you've been doing is moving your boat and repairing it as you go. -- Geoff |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:18:18 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote: All that you've been doing is moving your boat and repairing it as you go. I'd be slightly more charitable and call it a "shake down cruise". It took us about a year of short cruises to work the bugs out of our boat and have the confidence to take off and live on it for any length of time. At least there are good service locations most places along the east coast. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Wayne.B wrote in
: On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:18:18 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: All that you've been doing is moving your boat and repairing it as you go. I'd be slightly more charitable and call it a "shake down cruise". It took us about a year of short cruises to work the bugs out of our boat and have the confidence to take off and live on it for any length of time. At least there are good service locations most places along the east coast. I was referring to Skip's quote that "cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations." By that definition and his being in the ICW, it's not cruising. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Aug 5, 10:08 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:18:18 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: All that you've been doing is moving your boat and repairing it as you go. I'd be slightly more charitable and call it a "shake down cruise". It took us about a year of short cruises to work the bugs out of our boat and have the confidence to take off and live on it for any length of time. At least there are good service locations most places along the east coast. And, indeed, that is what I call it, and what I wanted to do all along. The wreck was a wakeup call for Lydia and she's now fully aboard about the purposes of this (and for however long it takes) meander in the land of TBUS and Worst/PortSupply, complete with cell service and fairly reliable internet. FWIW, I just got out of the engine room where I fixed a plumbing leak, resolved an inverter problem, am chasing an electrical glitch where the power to the exciter (or whatever delivers positive terminal current) on the alternator was at the root of our problems, all along (it will be either a bad wire or a bad switch, or a connection in between) as jumping out that line results in instant charge and tach, and, finally, fixing whatever it is which is causing a seep from the raw water hose somewhere near the intake of the RW pump (I'm taking it off next). The terminology of exotic locations, I guess, needs to be followed with a smiley. We're under no illusions as to our world-spanning such as Geoff has done. That will come when we have this boat shaken down to the point where - as another M46 owner calls his - they are only the daily crisis, not the departure-stopper. In the meantime, for the first time, we cranked up the Honda, connected it to the adapter pigtail, and have shorepower equivalent aboard. Now that we've killed the inverter problem, however, we'll go back to our regular programming. The solar's making over 10A from the time I entered the ER (~9) and climbing. Yesterday, while we were coming back to the anchorage off City Marina, we were seeing 20+ solar amps and a few (very light wind) from the wind generator. Stay tuned for the report promised on our electrical stuff. We're going to do some tracking before posting it. And, yes, we're out there doing it. Hands, please, for those similarly engaged (out of the marina, dealing with whatever comes up along the way, and going on about our lives [this is our only home], connected to the internet without spending cell or satellite phone money). Flame on, no problems - those who have been around for the 10 years I've been bothering this group know I'm not easily dissuaded/ discouraged :{)) Finally, apologies for the immediate preceding, as it's really best attached to the previous day's conflagration :{)) Those of you bothering to read likely know about it... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Aug 5, 10:08 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:18:18 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: All that you've been doing is moving your boat and repairing it as you go. I'd be slightly more charitable and call it a "shake down cruise". It took us about a year of short cruises to work the bugs out of our boat and have the confidence to take off and live on it for any length of time. At least there are good service locations most places along the east coast. And, indeed, that is what I call it, and what I wanted to do all along. The wreck was a wakeup call for Lydia and she's now fully aboard about the purposes of this (and for however long it takes) meander in the land of TBUS and Worst/PortSupply, complete with cell service and fairly reliable internet. FWIW, I just got out of the engine room where I fixed a plumbing leak, resolved an inverter problem, am chasing an electrical glitch where the power to the exciter (or whatever delivers positive terminal current) on the alternator was at the root of our problems, all along (it will be either a bad wire or a bad switch, or a connection in between) as jumping out that line results in instant charge and tach, and, finally, fixing whatever it is which is causing a seep from the raw water hose somewhere near the intake of the RW pump (I'm taking it off next). The terminology of exotic locations, I guess, needs to be followed with a smiley. We're under no illusions as to our world-spanning such as Geoff has done. That will come when we have this boat shaken down to the point where - as another M46 owner calls his - they are only the daily crisis, not the departure-stopper. In the meantime, for the first time, we cranked up the Honda, connected it to the adapter pigtail, and have shorepower equivalent aboard. Now that we've killed the inverter problem, however, we'll go back to our regular programming. The solar's making over 10A from the time I entered the ER (~9) and climbing. Yesterday, while we were coming back to the anchorage off City Marina, we were seeing 20+ solar amps and a few (very light wind) from the wind generator. Stay tuned for the report promised on our electrical stuff. We're going to do some tracking before posting it. And, yes, we're out there doing it. Hands, please, for those similarly engaged (out of the marina, dealing with whatever comes up along the way, and going on about our lives [this is our only home], connected to the internet without spending cell or satellite phone money). Flame on, no problems - those who have been around for the 10 years I've been bothering this group know I'm not easily dissuaded/ discouraged :{)) Finally, apologies for the immediate preceding, as it's really best attached to the previous day's conflagration :{)) Those of you bothering to read likely know about it... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Aug 5, 11:18 am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
I was referring to Skip's quote that "cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations." By that definition and his being in the ICW, it's not cruising. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org HEY!! :{)) Aren't you the guy who took me to task for not going up the river from Charleston??? L8R Skip :{)) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:24:08 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: FWIW, I just got out of the engine room where I fixed a plumbing leak, resolved an inverter problem, am chasing an electrical glitch where the power to the exciter (or whatever delivers positive terminal current) on the alternator was at the root of our problems, all along (it will be either a bad wire or a bad switch, or a connection in between) as jumping out that line results in instant charge and tach, and, finally, fixing whatever it is which is causing a seep from the raw water hose somewhere near the intake of the RW pump (I'm taking it off next). Skip, you're apparently having fun and learning while you get your boat shipshape. But it seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong about your approach to your boat's mech/electrical systems. Whether the installations were wrong from the get-go, or the product of piecemealing mismatched components, or of using low quality components, or you mucking up with your own hands things you don't have the knowledge to deal with, I don't know. If it were me I would get better advice on what works best and use it. There are always cost compromises for most of us, but boating - especially cruising - should *not* be "fixing things in exotic places" or whatever cuteism you care to use. Scheduled maintenance, proper diagnostic gear to use for troubleshooting, and occasional replacement of broken down parts should be the goal for cruisers. Sometimes reading cruiser logs remind me of tales - usually from the very young - who pick up an '89 Chevy Cavalier in NY for $300 and set off for California. They might make the journey, but it is doubtful it will be much fun, and it will probably end up costing more in repairs than if they had just bit the bullet and splurged $500 on a '92 Chevy Corsica. Of course being at sea has dangers beyond being stalled on a road. I hope I'm not off base here, but I've never read so many accounts of various breakdowns as I have from you, and I'm a bit concerned, since I do wish you the best. --Vic |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Skip, you're apparently having fun and learning while you get your boat shipshape. But it seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong about your approach to your boat's mech/electrical systems. Whether the installations were wrong from the get-go, or the product of piecemealing mismatched components, or of using low quality components, or you mucking up with your own hands things you don't have the knowledge to deal with, I don't know. If it were me I would get better advice on what works best and use it. There are always cost compromises for most of us, but boating - especially cruising - should *not* be "fixing things in exotic places" or whatever cuteism you care to use. Scheduled maintenance, proper diagnostic gear to use for troubleshooting, and occasional replacement of broken down parts should be the goal for cruisers. Sometimes reading cruiser logs remind me of tales - usually from the very young - who pick up an '89 Chevy Cavalier in NY for $300 and set off for California. They might make the journey, but it is doubtful it will be much fun, and it will probably end up costing more in repairs than if they had just bit the bullet and splurged $500 on a '92 Chevy Corsica. Of course being at sea has dangers beyond being stalled on a road. I hope I'm not off base here, but I've never read so many accounts of various breakdowns as I have from you, and I'm a bit concerned, since I do wish you the best. --Vic Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper" they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them, however). The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a girly-girl. Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in "shake-down" mode at this time. Karin |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message ... Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper" they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them, however). The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a girly-girl. Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in "shake-down" mode at this time. Karin One additional comment: Skip reported that TFP had experienced steering problems on a first attempt to leave the dock. They returned to the dock, couldn't find or duplicate the problem, so they left anyway. That, IMHO, was a mistake. If I experience a critical system problem at the dock which I cannot troubleshoot on my own, I don't leave until someone else with appropriate experience has located and fixed the problem or shown me how to do it. I've missed out on some planned sails because of this mindset, but it also means that I don't tend to have many "adventures at sea." ;-) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Skip Gundlach wrote in
oups.com: On Aug 5, 11:18 am, Geoff Schultz wrote: I was referring to Skip's quote that "cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations." By that definition and his being in the ICW, it's not cruising. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org HEY!! :{)) Aren't you the guy who took me to task for not going up the river from Charleston??? L8R Skip :{)) I believe that I suggested heading up the ICW to make miles when the weather outside didn't cooperate. I don't think that I ever suggested seeing it on the wrong end of a tow line! :-) -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"KLC Lewis" wrote:
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message ... Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper" they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them, however). The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a girly-girl. I'm not either -- but I hate tiller steering. I can just about manage a wheel. I think on a passage (more than 36 hours offshore), I would want a windvane rather than an autopilot, but we aren't going to do a passage (at least there's no chance of that anymore), so we have and use the autopilot which is more useful in near shore. Our boat when we bought it had a refer, and it's nice to have. We installed a radar, and Bob decided to have Lectrasans (it certainly wasn't my idea, but I don't think I'd want a portapot either). Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in "shake-down" mode at this time. Karin One additional comment: Skip reported that TFP had experienced steering problems on a first attempt to leave the dock. They returned to the dock, couldn't find or duplicate the problem, so they left anyway. That, IMHO, was a mistake. If I experience a critical system problem at the dock which I cannot troubleshoot on my own, I don't leave until someone else with appropriate experience has located and fixed the problem or shown me how to do it. I've missed out on some planned sails because of this mindset, but it also means that I don't tend to have many "adventures at sea." ;-) I think this is - in general- a man's mindset. At least with us, the only times we've really been in trouble is when Bob has wanted to leave and I have not, and he's convinced me when I should have stood my ground. I am, of course, not really a sailor - more of a companion. It is Bob's boat to fix. One of the reasons I was OK with his getting a boat is that I knew that he loves to fix things. One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore. Also of course we are getting older. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore. Also of course we are getting older. You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"KLC Lewis" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message .. . One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore. Also of course we are getting older. You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is. We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy experience although not dire in the way Skip's was. We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the channel by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone. Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away. Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet. I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground. The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he mistook the side that he was too close to and steered us right into the surf line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel up about a foot. But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with meeting the bottom. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Rosalie B." wrote in message . .. One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore. Also of course we are getting older. You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is. We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy experience although not dire in the way Skip's was. We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the channel by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone. Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away. Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet. I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground. The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he mistook the side that he was too close to and steered us right into the surf line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel up about a foot. But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with meeting the bottom. I haven't been in the ICW since 1979-80, but from what I've seen on the charts things have only gotten worse. Channels narrowing and shoaling has to make it quite an ordeal. I'm not sure that it's worth the hassle, personally. If I were heading south, I would seriously consider doing it offshore -- though as I remember the Gulf Stream, that raises a whole 'nother can o worms. Is harbor hopping down the coast possible, avoiding the ICW? Weather and GS position permitting, of course. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et: "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore. Also of course we are getting older. You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is. We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy experience although not dire in the way Skip's was. We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the channel by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone. Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away. Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet. I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground. The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he mistook the side that he was too close to and steered us right into the surf line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel up about a foot. But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with meeting the bottom. I haven't been in the ICW since 1979-80, but from what I've seen on the charts things have only gotten worse. Channels narrowing and shoaling has to make it quite an ordeal. I'm not sure that it's worth the hassle, personally. If I were heading south, I would seriously consider doing it offshore -- though as I remember the Gulf Stream, that raises a whole 'nother can o worms. Is harbor hopping down the coast possible, avoiding the ICW? Weather and GS position permitting, of course. Simply get a book like Skipper Bob's Anchorages and read where the shoaling is. You can get updates on-line. I annotate the book with the updates and create warning symbols on the GPS course which warn me when I'm heading into a area known to have problems. Following this procedure I didn't have any issues this year, but I knew many people who did and they were just following the R/Gs and didn't realize where the shoaling was. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On 2007-08-05 19:25:52 -0400, "KLC Lewis" said:
You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. Don't try to sail in the Chesapeake, then! I'm thrilled when I have over 15 feet of depth! Ruby |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Geoff Schultz wrote:
Didn't Skipper Bob die? Most of the information I see now comes from Claiborne Young Simply get a book like Skipper Bob's Anchorages and read where the shoaling is. You can get updates on-line. I annotate the book with the updates and create warning symbols on the GPS course which warn me when I'm heading into a area known to have problems. Following this procedure I didn't have any issues this year, but I knew many people who did and they were just following the R/Gs and didn't realize where the shoaling was. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org I have all the charts with notations (like the new buoys north of the Alligator River bridge and the channel that is closed in Beaufort NC.) But in this case, we'd been in Marathon all winter and hadn't seen anything about this particular problem although the TBUS guy said that a lot of people had run aground there. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Aug 5, 9:03 pm, Rosalie B. wrote:
Geoff Schultz wrote: But in this case, we'd been in Marathon all winter and hadn't seen anything about this particular problem As in East jefferson HWY ????? you talkn gater tail and craaw fish bra? Good u not down way n ... Sulphur... Venice..... or Fouchion.... Marathon is good place. I come see yall bra. bob |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Rosalie B. wrote in
: Geoff Schultz wrote: Didn't Skipper Bob die? Most of the information I see now comes from Claiborne Young Simply get a book like Skipper Bob's Anchorages and read where the shoaling is. You can get updates on-line. I annotate the book with the updates and create warning symbols on the GPS course which warn me when I'm heading into a area known to have problems. Following this procedure I didn't have any issues this year, but I knew many people who did and they were just following the R/Gs and didn't realize where the shoaling was. -- Geoff I have all the charts with notations (like the new buoys north of the Alligator River bridge and the channel that is closed in Beaufort NC.) But in this case, we'd been in Marathon all winter and hadn't seen anything about this particular problem although the TBUS guy said that a lot of people had run aground there. Here's the Skipper Bob update on the Masonboro Inlet: ICW, Mile 280.4, Mason Inlet CAUTION – The channel has shoaled to 3.8' MLW on the green side near G121 at the Mason Inlet. Stay on the red side between R122 and G123. Use waypoint N34º 14.95 and W77º 46.98 as the deep water point on the red side opposite the shoaling on the green side near G121. Based on USACOE Report dated November 8, 2005. (July 16, 2006) -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Rosalie B. wrote in
: What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is. I drove an Endeavour 35 sloop out of the little basin at the yacht club in Daytona Beach, followed the bouys around into the ICW to starboard to get to the fuel dock at the marina next door. Right after I rounded up South in the center of the channel, the boat hooked "something" like it had just hooked a tree that nosed the old girl over and stopped her dead in her tracks like a jet landing on a carrier snagging the cables on deck. Florida is just terrible with a 6' keel hanging down. The keel of the Amel Sharki 41 dragged along the bottom of Lake Worth in the middle of the channel from one end to the other. Vary off course a little and it grounded long before getting near the bouy line. There aren't near enough inlets for them to escape to sea on..... Larry -- Democrats are raising taxes on oil companies by $16,000,000,000. Oil companies don't pay taxes, just like every other company. Consumers pay all taxes, corporate and individual. What's the price of a gallon of regular going to go to to pay $16B more? |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Rosalie B. wrote in
: and the channel that is closed in Beaufort NC Oh, no! That's where Skip is heading Flying Pig...(c; Larry -- Democrats are raising taxes on oil companies by $16,000,000,000. Oil companies don't pay taxes, just like every other company. Consumers pay all taxes, corporate and individual. What's the price of a gallon of regular going to go to to pay $16B more? |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Larry wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote in : What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is. I drove an Endeavour 35 sloop out of the little basin at the yacht club in Daytona Beach, followed the bouys around into the ICW to starboard to get to the fuel dock at the marina next door. Right after I rounded up South in the center of the channel, the boat hooked "something" like it had just hooked a tree that nosed the old girl over and stopped her dead in her tracks like a jet landing on a carrier snagging the cables on deck. Florida is just terrible with a 6' keel hanging down. The keel of the Amel Sharki 41 dragged along the bottom of Lake Worth in the middle of the channel from one end to the other. Vary off course a little and it grounded long before getting near the bouy line. IT is the same way through the Georgia ICW. At low tide the daymarks are well on dry land. We only went through the ICW in Lake Worth once. That was enough. Between there and Ft. Lauderdale there were over 20 bridges to be opened. There aren't near enough inlets for them to escape to sea on..... On our last trip up the ICW, we went in the Hawk Channel from Marathon to Miami. Then Offshore from Miami to Fort Pierce. Up the ICW to the St. Mary's River. (Usually anchor in Melbourne, and stay in marinas in Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, Jax Beach - 5 days) Offshore from the St. Mary's River to Charleston Offshore from Charleston to Cape Fear A short hop from Southport to Masonboro I had just suggested to Bob that we go out Masonboro and come in at Beaufort when we went aground. From there - we usually go inshore stopping at Swansboro, Oriental, Belhaven, Alligator R., Coinjock, NC (Virginia Cut - we usually go south through the Dismal Swamp and come back through the Virginia Cut), and Norfolk Incidentally it is Gallant's Cut in Beaufort that is closed. I've heard several radio conversations from trawlers that had put their autopilots following the old channel on the chartplotter. But I knew (from the guidebooks) that Gallant's Cut channel was closed in 2000 when we made our first trip down the ICW (and the only time that we had anything to do with Beaufort by boat because I think the marinas are too expensive - we anchored ) http://p.vtourist.com/953637-Beaufor...e-Beaufort.jpg |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Rosalie B. wrote in
: Up the ICW to the St. Mary's River. (Usually anchor in Melbourne, and stay in marinas in Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, Jax Beach - 5 days) Let me warn you about St Augustine, and a sailor named Jake on a steel ketch with arthritis in particular.....(c; We met Jake on the docks at the SA city marina. He lives near Miami, somewhere I've forgotten, and when his wife gets fed up with him she sends him to sea, by himself, to get rid of him. Jake is very old, but has been at sea for decades. Seeing me programming waypoints into the chartplotter, he asked me to help him put his waypoints into his Garmin because his hands are so crippled up he can't reliably punch the buttons that much. So, I followed him to his boat and entered all the points he wanted...quite a list he had prepared. When we got done with that, Jake invited Lloyd, who was delivering the Endeavour with me back home, and I to have dinner at that great little restaurant where you can feed the catfish out the window over the ICW, great fun. After dinner, we made our first mistake. Jake wanted us to follow him to "a few" of his favorite bars in St Augustine. Noone he knew, and he knew ALL OF THEM, warned us we were following a gigawatt dynamo! Man, what a night! Jake had every barmaid in town cuddled up to his innocent-LOOKING, crinkled face covered with that white beard! I vowed to start growing one in the morning. I don't remember what time we got back to the boat, but I know it was not long before the sun came up. Jake bid us good night and thanked us for a great time. He looked the same as when we got up from the dinner table! Lloyd and I crawled on our hands and knees back to the boat and poured our dead bodies into the racks, begging for mercy. Needless to say, we were quite late getting off the dock to putter up the ICW to Mayport before putting to sea. I waved to the people who waved at me, but I felt just awful and got seasick as soon as we cleared land. We'd both met our match at bar hopping. Watch out for old Jake! If he wants you to go with him, BOW OUT! YOU CAN'T! IT'S DANGEROUS! WARNING!! WARNING!! Larry -- Democrats are raising taxes on oil companies by $16,000,000,000. Oil companies don't pay taxes, just like every other company. Consumers pay all taxes, corporate and individual. What's the price of a gallon of regular going to go to to pay $16B more? |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Larry wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote in : Up the ICW to the St. Mary's River. (Usually anchor in Melbourne, and stay in marinas in Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, Jax Beach - 5 days) The problem with Jax Beach may be that they've turned all the marinas into condos and there aren't any anymore. Let me warn you about St Augustine, and a sailor named Jake on a steel ketch with arthritis in particular.....(c; LOL. I don't care for the city marina - if I can get a slip there I usually go to Oyster Creek. We anchored out on our first trip. When we go to St. A we usually meet up with Norm of Bandersnatch for drinks or dinner if we can, but our drinks are non-alcoholic. We met Jake on the docks at the SA city marina. He lives near Miami, somewhere I've forgotten, and when his wife gets fed up with him she sends him to sea, by himself, to get rid of him. Jake is very old, but has been at sea for decades. Seeing me programming waypoints into the chartplotter, he asked me to help him put his waypoints into his Garmin because his hands are so crippled up he can't reliably punch the buttons that much. So, I followed him to his boat and entered all the points he wanted...quite a list he had prepared. When we got done with that, Jake invited Lloyd, who was delivering the Endeavour with me back home, and I to have dinner at that great little restaurant where you can feed the catfish out the window over the ICW, great fun. After dinner, we made our first mistake. Jake wanted us to follow him to "a few" of his favorite bars in St Augustine. Noone he knew, and he knew ALL OF THEM, warned us we were following a gigawatt dynamo! Man, what a night! Jake had every barmaid in town cuddled up to his innocent-LOOKING, crinkled face covered with that white beard! I vowed to start growing one in the morning. I don't remember what time we got back to the boat, but I know it was not long before the sun came up. Jake bid us good night and thanked us for a great time. He looked the same as when we got up from the dinner table! Lloyd and I crawled on our hands and knees back to the boat and poured our dead bodies into the racks, begging for mercy. Needless to say, we were quite late getting off the dock to putter up the ICW to Mayport before putting to sea. I waved to the people who waved at me, but I felt just awful and got seasick as soon as we cleared land. We'd both met our match at bar hopping. Watch out for old Jake! If he wants you to go with him, BOW OUT! YOU CAN'T! IT'S DANGEROUS! WARNING!! WARNING!! Larry |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
In article 2007080523324138165-rubyvee3@comcastnet,
Ruby Vee wrote: On 2007-08-05 19:25:52 -0400, "KLC Lewis" said: You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20 feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring. Don't try to sail in the Chesapeake, then! I'm thrilled when I have over 15 feet of depth! Ruby Sailing out of Lake Pontrachain, my chart shows 9-15'just about everywhere. My depthfinder is set at 6.6 as a min... just before the last bridge it starts pinging like crazy.. I'm all aflutter wondering if I'm going to ground-out in open water???... .... till I look at the readout which says 77'!! There is a deep hole in a bend in open water... Phew -- Molesworth |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Molesworth" wrote in message ... Sailing out of Lake Pontrachain, my chart shows 9-15'just about everywhere. My depthfinder is set at 6.6 as a min... just before the last bridge it starts pinging like crazy.. I'm all aflutter wondering if I'm going to ground-out in open water???... ... till I look at the readout which says 77'!! There is a deep hole in a bend in open water... Phew -- Molesworth Most of my sailing has been done in deepwater areas like southern California, where "shallows" meant 25 to 50 feet. Coming to Green Bay has done little to change my attitude about what shallow water is. There are lots of places here where the water is less than 10 feet deep -- I simply avoid them. Oh, I'll anchor in 8 feet, but only with someone on the bow (of course) and someone watching the depthsounder and the boat ghosting along. But sailing in that depth? Only in a dinghy if I have anything to say about it. ;-) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:56:05 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper" they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them, however). The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a girly-girl. Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in "shake-down" mode at this time. Points taken. Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. And I'm trying to develop my own "philosophy" regarding boat systems selection and care. I guess it was Skip's mention of various electrical issues and confusion about their source that bothered me. And the leaking hose. I thought such issues would have been worked out before leaving Florida. Faults are prone to snowballing quickly and the it's best to deal with them ashore. The steering problem, which appears self-induced, also caught my attention. It just seems that Skip's attention to such matters is scattered and could be improved somehow. I've seen mention here of pilot checklists, and AFAIC the same prep method is appropriate for boats. Those here who have developed such procedures could chime in. Regarding cruiser electrical/mechanical shakedowns, hose leaks, electrical glitches and such shouldn't be part of that, as that should all be set right while ashore. My Navy shakedown cruises were more stress and performance tests than tests of basic systems. I suppose for sailboat cruisers the real shakedown elements are rigging, sails and drive train related. But like I said, I don't yet sail, so I'd welcome experienced thoughts on this as I prepare myself. I'm a true believer in KISS, but not a Luddite. Even complex systems have design differences that allow careful selection of equipment to lend to them the KISS factor. Not complex, but as an example, the Airhead composting toilet is much simpler and maintenance free than holding tank systems, though for some it's unsuitable, or maybe too costly. --Vic |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Points taken. Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. And I'm trying to develop my own "philosophy" regarding boat systems selection and care. I guess it was Skip's mention of various electrical issues and confusion about their source that bothered me. And the leaking hose. I thought such issues would have been worked out before leaving Florida. Faults are prone to snowballing quickly and the it's best to deal with them ashore. The steering problem, which appears self-induced, also caught my attention. It just seems that Skip's attention to such matters is scattered and could be improved somehow. I've seen mention here of pilot checklists, and AFAIC the same prep method is appropriate for boats. Those here who have developed such procedures could chime in. Regarding cruiser electrical/mechanical shakedowns, hose leaks, electrical glitches and such shouldn't be part of that, as that should all be set right while ashore. My Navy shakedown cruises were more stress and performance tests than tests of basic systems. I suppose for sailboat cruisers the real shakedown elements are rigging, sails and drive train related. But like I said, I don't yet sail, so I'd welcome experienced thoughts on this as I prepare myself. I'm a true believer in KISS, but not a Luddite. Even complex systems have design differences that allow careful selection of equipment to lend to them the KISS factor. Not complex, but as an example, the Airhead composting toilet is much simpler and maintenance free than holding tank systems, though for some it's unsuitable, or maybe too costly. --Vic To me, "shake down" is simply making sure that all systems work as intended, and discovering whether or not ideas that seemed great in the slip or at home actually work at sea. Mostly this comes into play when new systems are added into the boat, or when an item is replaced or repaired. The rest of the time it's mostly just the implementation of an ongoing, individualized "Planned Maintenance System," though it's rarely the case that PMS is as official (or as officious) as that used by the Navy. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
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August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Vic Smith wrote in
: Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. Here, Vic.....I have a present for you and your SO....(c; Larry "The Liveaboard Simulator" Just for fun, park your cars in the lot of the convenience store at least 2 blocks from your house. (Make believe the sidewalk is a floating dock between your car and the house. Move yourself and your family (If applicable) into 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Measure the DECK space INSIDE your boat. Make sure the occupied house has no more space, or closet space, or drawer space. Boats don't have room for "beds", as such. Fold your Sealy Posturepedic up against a wall, it won't fit on a boat. Go to a hobby fabric store and buy a foam pad 5' 10" long and 4' wide AND NO MORE THAN 3" THICK. Cut it into a triangle so the little end is only 12" wide. This simulates the foam pad in the V-berth up in the pointy bow of the sailboat. Bring in the kitchen table from the kitchen you're not allowed to use. Put the pad UNDER the table, on the floor, so you can simulate the 3' of headroom over the pad. Block off both long sides of the pad, and the pointy end so you have to climb aboard the V-berth from the wide end where your pillows will be. The hull blocks off the sides of a V-berth and you have to climb up over the end of it through a narrow opening (hatch to main cabin) on a boat. You'll climb over your mate's head to go to the potty in the night. No fun for either party. Test her mettle and resolve by getting up this way right after you go to bed at night. There are lots of things to do on a boat and you'll forget at least one of them, thinking about it laying in bed, like "Did I remember to tie off the dingy better?" or "Is that spring line (at the dock) or anchor line (anchored out) as tight as it should be?" Boaters who don't worry about things like this laying in bed are soon aground or on fire or the laughing stock of an anchorage.... You need to find out how much climbing over her she will tolerate BEFORE you're stuck with a big boat and big marina bills and she refuses to sleep aboard it any more..... Bring a coleman stove into the bathroom and set it next to the bathroom sink. Your boat's sink is smaller, but we'll let you use the bathroom sink, anyways. Do all your cooking in the bathroom, WITHOUT using the bathroom power vent. If you have a boat vent, it'll be a useless 12v one that doesn't draw near the air your bathroom power vent draws to take away cooking odors. Leave the hall door open to simulate the open hatch. Take all the screens off your 2 bedroom's windows. Leave the windows open to let in the bugs that will invade your boat at dusk, and the flies attracted to the cooking. Borrow a 25 gallon drum mounted on a trailer. Flush your toilets into the drums. Trailer the drums to the convenience store to dump them when they get full. Turn off your sewer, you won't have one. This will simulate going to the "pump out station" every time the tiny drum is full. 25 gallons is actually LARGER than most holding tanks. They're more like 15 gallons on small sailboats under 40' because they were added to the boat after the law changed requiring them and there was no place to put it or a bigger one. They fill up really fast if you liveaboard! Unless your boat is large enough to have a big "head" with full bath, make believe your showers/bathtubs don't work. Make a deal with someone next door to the convenience store to use THEIR bathroom for bathing at the OTHER end of the DOCK. (Marina rest room) If you use this rest room to potty, while you're there, make believe it has no paper towels or toilet paper. Bring your own. Bring your own soap and anything else you'd like to use there, too. If your boat HAS a shower in its little head, we'll let you use the shower end of the bathtub, but only as much tub as the boat has FREE shower space for standing to shower. As the boat's shower drains into a little pan in the bilge, be sure to leave the soapy shower water in the bottom of the tub for a few days before draining it. Boat shower sumps always smell like spent soap growing exotic living organisms science hasn't actually discovered or named, yet. Make sure your simulated V-berth is less than 3' from this soapy water for sleeping. The shower sump is under the passageway to the V-berth next to your pillows. Run you whole house through a 20 amp breaker to simulate available dock power at the marina. If you're thinking of anchoring out, turn off the main breaker and "make do" with a boat battery and flashlights. Don't forget you have to heat your house on this 20A supply and try to keep the water from freezing in winter. Turn off the water main valve in front of your house. Run a hose from your neighbor's lawn spigot over to your lawn spigot and get all your water from there. Try to keep the hose from freezing all winter. As your boat won't have a laundry, disconnect yours. Go to a boat supply place, like West Marine, and buy you a dock cart. Haul ALL your supplies, laundry, garbage, etc. between the car at the convenience store and house in this cart. Once a week, haul your outboard motor to the car, leave it a day then haul it back to the house, in the cart, to simulate "boat problems" that require "boat parts" to be removed/replaced on your "dock". If ANYTHING ever comes out of that cart between the convenience store and the house, put it in your garage and forget about it. (Simulates losing it over the side of the dock, where it sank in 23' of water and was dragged off by the current.) Each morning, about 5AM, have someone you don't know run a weedeater back and forth under your bedroom windows to simulate the fishermen leaving the marina to go fishing. Have him slam trunk lids, doors, blow car horns and bang some heavy pans together from 4AM to 5AM before lighting off the weedeater. (Simulates loading boats with booze and fishing gear and gas cans.) Once a week, have him bang the running weedeater into your bedroom wall to simulate the idiot who drove his boat into the one you're sleeping in because he was half asleep leaving the dock. Put a rope over a big hook in the ceiling over your "bed". Put a sheet of plywood under your pad with a place to hook a rope to one side or the other. Hook one end of the rope to the plywood hook and the other end out where he can pull on it. As soon as he shuts off the weedeater, have him pull hard 9 times on the rope to tilt your bed at least 30 degrees. (Simulates the wakes of the fishermen blasting off trying to beat each other to the fishing.) Anytime there is a storm in your area, have someone constantly pull on the rope. It's rough riding storms in the marina or anchored out! If your boat is a sailboat, install a big wire from the top of the tallest tree to your electrical ground in the house to simulate mast lightning strikes in the marina, or to give you the thought of potential lightning strikes. Each time you "go out", or think of going boating away from your marina, disconnect the neighbor's water hose, your electric wires, all the umbilicals your new boat will use to make life more bearable in the marina. Use bottled drinking water for 2 days for everything. Get one of those 5 gallon jugs with the airpump on top from a bottled water company. This is your boat's "at sea" water system simulator. You'll learn to conserve water this way. Of course, not having the marina's AC power supply, you'll be lighting and all from a car battery, your only source of power. If you own or can borrow a generator, feel free to leave it running to provide AC power up to the limit of the generator. If you're thinking about a 30' sailboat, you won't have room for a generator so don't use it. Any extra family members must be sleeping on the settees in the main cabin or in the quarter berth under the cockpit....unless you intend to get a boat over 40-something feet with an aft cabin. Smaller boats have quarter berths. Cut a pad out of the same pad material that is no more than 2' wide by 6' long. Get a cardboard box from an appliance store that a SMALL refridgerator came in. Put the pad in the box, cut to fit, and make sure only one end of the box is open. The box can be no more than 2 feet above the pad. Quarter berths are really tight. Make them sleep in there, with little or no air circulation. That's what sleeping in a quarterberth is all about. Of course, to simulate sleeping anchored out for the weekend, no heat or air conditioning will be used and all windows will be open without screens so the bugs can get in. In the mornings, everybody gets up and goes out on the patio to enjoy the sunrise. Then, one person at a time goes back inside to dress, shave, clean themselves in the tiny cabin unless you're a family of nudists who don't mind looking at each other in the buff. You can't get dressed in the stinky little head with the door closed on a sailboat. Hell, there's barely room to bend over so you can sit on the commode. So, everyone will dress in the main cabin....one at a time. Boat tables are 2' x 4' and mounted next to the settee. There's no room for chairs in a boat. So, eat off a 2X4' space on that kitchen table you slept under while sitting on a couch (settee simulator). You can also go out with breakfast and sit on the patio (cockpit), if you like. Ok, breakfast is over. Crank up the lawnmower under the window for 4 hours. It's time to recharge the batteries from last night's usage and to freeze the coldplate in the boat's icebox which runs off a compressor on the engine. Get everybody to clean up your little hovel. Don't forget to make the beds from ONE END ONLY. You can't get to the other 3 sides of a boat bed pad. All hands go outside and washdown the first fiberglass UPS truck that passes by. That's about how big the deck is on your 35' sailboat that needs to have the ocean cleaned off it daily or it'll turn the white fiberglass all brown like the UPS truck. Now, doesn't the UPS truck look nice like your main deck? Ok, we're going to need some food, do the laundry, buy some boat parts that failed because the manufacturer's bean counters got cheap and used plastics and the wife wants to "eat out, I'm fed up with cooking on the Coleman stove" today. Let's make believe we're not at home, but in some exotic port like Ft Lauderdale, today....on our cruise to Key West......Before "going ashore", plan on buying all the food you'll want to eat that will: A - Fit into the Coleman Cooler on the floor B - You can cook on the Coleman stove without an oven or all those fancy kitchen tools you don't have on the boat C - And will last you for 10 days, in case the wind drops and it takes more time than we planned at sea. Plan meals carefully in a boat. We can't buy more than we can STORE, either! You haven't washed clothes since you left home and everything is dirty. Even if it's not, pretend it is for the boater-away-from-home simulator. Put all the clothes in your simulated boat in a huge dufflebag so we can take it to the LAUNDRY! Manny's Marina HAS a laundromat, but the hot water heater is busted (for the last 8 months) and Manny has "parts on order" for it.....saving Manny $$$$ on the electric bill! Don't forget to carry the big dufflebag with us on our "excursion". God that bag stinks, doesn't it?....PU! Of course, we came here by BOAT, so we don't have a car. Some nice marinas have a shuttle bus, but they're not a taxi. The shuttle bus will only go to West Marine or the tourist traps, so we'll be either taking the city bus, if there is one or taxi cabs or shopping at the marina store which has almost nothing to buy at enormous prices. Walk to the 7-11 store, where you have your car stored, but ignore the car. Make believe it isn't there. No one drove it to Ft Lauderdale for you. Use the payphone at the 7-11 and call a cab. Don't give the cab driver ANY instructions because in Ft Lauderdale you haven't the foggiest idea where West Marine is located or how to get there, unlike at home. We'll go to West Marine, first, because if we don't the "head" back on the boat won't be working for a week because little Suzy broke a valve in it trying to flush some paper towels. This is your MOST important project, today....that valve in the toilet!! After the cab drivers drives around for an hour looking for West Marine and asking his dispatcher how to get there. Don't forget to UNLOAD your stuff from the cab, including the dirty clothes in the dufflebag then go into West Marine and give the clerk a $100 bill, simulating the cost of toilet parts. Lexus parts are cheaper than toilet parts at West Marine. See for yourself! The valve she broke, the seals that will have to be replaced on the way into the valve will come to $100 easy. Tell the clerk you're using my liveaboard simulator and to take his girlfriend out to dinner on your $100 greenback. If you DO buy the boat, this'll come in handy when you DO need boat parts because he'll remember you for the great time his girlfriend gave him on your $100 tip. Hard-to-find boat parts will arrive in DAYS, not months like the rest of us. It's just a good political move while in simulation mode. Call another cab from West Marine's phone, saving 50c on payphone charges. Load the cab with all your stuff, toilet parts, DIRTY CLOTHES then tell the cabbie to take you to the laundromat so we can wash the stinky clothes in the trunk. The luxury marina's laundry in Ft Lauderdale has a broken hot water heater. They're working on it, the girl at the store counter, said, yesterday. Mentioning the $12/ft you paid to park the boat at their dock won't get the laundry working before we leave for Key West. Do your laundry in the laundromat the cabbie found for you. Just because noone speaks English in this neighborhood, don't worry. You'll be fine this time of day near noon. Call another cab to take us out of here to a supermarket. When you get there, resist the temptation to "load up" because your boat has limited storage and very limited refridgeration space (remember? Coleman Cooler). Buy from the list we made early this morning. Another package of cookies is OK. Leave one of the kids guarding the pile of clean laundry just inside the supermarket's front door....We learned our lesson and DIDN'T forget and leave it in the cab, again! Call another cab to take us back to the marina, loaded up with clean clothes and food and all-important boat parts. Isn't Ft Lauderdale beautiful from a cab? It's too late to go exploring, today. Maybe tomorrow.... Don't forget to tell the cab to go to the 7-11 (marina parking lot)....not your front door....cabs don't float well. Ok, haul all the stuff in the dock cart from the 7-11 store the two blocks to the "boat" bedroom. Wait 20 minutes before starting out for the house. This simulates waiting for someone to bring back a marina-owned dock cart from down the docks.....They always leave them outside their boats, until the marina "crew" get fed up with newbies like us asking why there aren't any carts and go down the docks to retrieve them. Put all the stuff away, food and clothes, in the tiny drawer space provided. Have a beer on the patio (cockpit) and watch the sunset. THIS is living! Now, disassemble the toilet in your bathroom, take out the wax ring under it and put it back. Reassemble the toilet. This completes the simulation of putting the new valve in the "head" on the boat. Uh, uh, NO POWERVENT! GET YOUR HAND OFF THAT SWITCH! The whole "boat" smells like the inside of the holding tank for hours after fixing the toilet in a real boat, too! Spray some Lysol if you got it.... After getting up, tomorrow morning, from your "V-Berth", take the whole family out to breakfast by WALKING to the nearest restaurant, then take a cab to any local park or attraction you like. We're off today to see the sights of Ft Lauderdale.....before heading out to sea, again, to Key West. Take a cab back home after dinner out and go to bed, exhausted, on your little foam pad under the table..... Get up this morning and disconnect all hoses, electrical wires, etc. Get ready for "sea". Crank up the lawn mower under the open bedroom window for 4 hours while we motor out to find some wind. ONE responsible adult MUST be sitting on the hot patio all day, in shifts, "on watch" looking out for other boats, ships, etc. If you have a riding lawn mower, let the person "on watch" drive it around the yard all day to simulate driving the boat down the ICW in heavy traffic. About 2PM, turn off the engine and just have them sit on the mower "steering" it on the patio. We're under sail, now. Every hour or so, take everyone out in the yard with a big rope and have a tug-of-war to simulate the work involved with setting sail, changing sail, trimming sail. Make sure everyone gets all sweaty in the heat. Sailors working on sailboats are always all sweaty or we're not going anywhere fast! Do this all day, today, all night, tonight, all day, tomorrow, all night tomorrow night and all day the following day until 5PM when you "arrive" at the next port you're going to. Make sure noone in the family leaves the confines of the little bedroom or the patio during our "trip". Make sure everyone conserves water, battery power, etc., things you'll want to conserve while being at sea on a trip somewhere. Everyone can go up to the 7-11 for an icecream as soon as we get the "boat" docked on day 3, the first time anyone has left the confines of the bedroom/patio in 3 days. Question - Was anyone suicidal during our simulated voyage? Keep an eye out for anyone with a problem being cooped up with other family members. If anyone is attacked, any major fights break out, any threats to throw the captain to the fish.....forget all about boats and buy a motorhome, instead. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:56:05 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper" they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them, however). The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a girly-girl. Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in "shake-down" mode at this time. Points taken. Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. And I'm trying to develop my own "philosophy" regarding boat systems selection and care. I guess it was Skip's mention of various electrical issues and confusion about their source that bothered me. And the leaking hose. I thought such issues would have been worked out before leaving Florida. Faults are prone to snowballing quickly and the it's best to deal with them ashore. The steering problem, which appears self-induced, also caught my attention. Skip didn't have the option of testing each system out as he put it on line. He was in the boatyard doing the work, and when he put the boat into the water the tax clock started to run. It just seems that Skip's attention to such matters is scattered and could be improved somehow. I've seen mention here of pilot checklists, and AFAIC the same prep method is appropriate for boats. Those here who have developed such procedures could chime in. Regarding cruiser electrical/mechanical shakedowns, hose leaks, electrical glitches and such shouldn't be part of that, as that should all be set right while ashore. He has an older boat. We also have an older boat, but with more time at our disposal (we bought the boat before we retired, and did short cruises in the Chesapeake for a couple of summers before heading south on the ICW) we had a more relaxed schedule. We practice MOB retrieval with each other in the water. We checked to see if the auto inflate PFDs inflated at the same time. We practiced heaving to. But even then , we couldn't get all the glitches PARTICULARLY the electrical glitches sorted out on shore. Stuff on the boat breaks, and it isn't always preventable even with the most stringent checklist. Skip's problem is that everything breaks at the same time rather than one at a time. In the first two years (before going down the ICW}, the NEW autopilot controls were intermittently inoperative. When Bob reinstalled it he found a broken or pinched wire between the sender and the receiver. Bob built a nice box for the computer, but the power outlet that he put in didn't work. Discovered extra screws packed in the socket which made a short. Bob had to fix the plastic piece in the headsail furler. Later on that cruise it happened again and Bob made a fix for it out of some slippery line. Bob changed the joker valve in the toilet at anchor. We got a new radio at the Annapolis boat show before our first trip down the ICW - the old wiring was inadequate - it took us some time to figure out what the problem was and get it sorted out - we were down in Daytona still trying to figure it out. The same thing happened on another trip when we tried to use the follow-me-antenna and the TV - wiring was inadequate. The LectraSan stopped working and we had to get a new board for it while we were in Charleston and they shipped it to California by mistake (they said). Also the alternator bracket broke - Bob had to take it to the Caterpillar place in Summerville to get someone to weld it for him - there wasn't anyplace that would do it in Mt. Pleasant. We had the throttle cable break on our first trip while we were at anchor a day's travel south of Charleston. I discovered at the same time that I didn't have any electronic charts for Florida. We had some problems with the transmission in Florida. The staysail ripped out at the top when we were coming back up the ICW that first year, and the solar panel on the dinghy davits worked loose and flew away never to be seen again on that same trip. My Navy shakedown cruises were more stress and performance tests than tests of basic systems. I suppose for sailboat cruisers the real shakedown elements are rigging, sails and drive train related. But like I said, I don't yet sail, so I'd welcome experienced thoughts on this as I prepare myself. I'm a true believer in KISS, but not a Luddite. Even complex systems have design differences that allow careful selection of equipment to lend to them the KISS factor. Not complex, but as an example, the Airhead composting toilet is much simpler and maintenance free than holding tank systems, though for some it's unsuitable, or maybe too costly. --Vic It takes too much space for the stuff for the compost. They work fine on land - not so much in the water. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:57:04 +0000, Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in : Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. Here, Vic.....I have a present for you and your SO....(c; Larry "The Liveaboard Simulator" snip Larry, I've read that before. Pretty good. But you failed to simulate the sunsets, the fishing, the cold beers, the pelican crap, etc, that come with the territory. Anyway, I don't want to live on a boat except for short (2-3 weeks) cruises. Just knowing there's a real bed waiting at the end of a cruise makes the cruising part an "adventure" or "vacation" instead of an ordeal. To me, anyway. But thanks for the reminder. --Vic |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:29:01 -0400, Rosalie B.
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: I guess it was Skip's mention of various electrical issues and confusion about their source that bothered me. And the leaking hose. I thought such issues would have been worked out before leaving Florida. Faults are prone to snowballing quickly and the it's best to deal with them ashore. The steering problem, which appears self-induced, also caught my attention. Skip didn't have the option of testing each system out as he put it on line. He was in the boatyard doing the work, and when he put the boat into the water the tax clock started to run. Yeah, I can see how that affected some things. It just seems that Skip's attention to such matters is scattered and could be improved somehow. I've seen mention here of pilot checklists, and AFAIC the same prep method is appropriate for boats. Those here who have developed such procedures could chime in. Regarding cruiser electrical/mechanical shakedowns, hose leaks, electrical glitches and such shouldn't be part of that, as that should all be set right while ashore. He has an older boat. We also have an older boat, but with more time at our disposal (we bought the boat before we retired, and did short cruises in the Chesapeake for a couple of summers before heading south on the ICW) we had a more relaxed schedule. We practice MOB retrieval with each other in the water. We checked to see if the auto inflate PFDs inflated at the same time. We practiced heaving to. But even then , we couldn't get all the glitches PARTICULARLY the electrical glitches sorted out on shore. Stuff on the boat breaks, and it isn't always preventable even with the most stringent checklist. Skip's problem is that everything breaks at the same time rather than one at a time. In the first two years (before going down the ICW}, the NEW autopilot controls were intermittently inoperative. When Bob reinstalled it he found a broken or pinched wire between the sender and the receiver. Bob built a nice box for the computer, but the power outlet that he put in didn't work. Discovered extra screws packed in the socket which made a short. Bob had to fix the plastic piece in the headsail furler. Later on that cruise it happened again and Bob made a fix for it out of some slippery line. Bob changed the joker valve in the toilet at anchor. We got a new radio at the Annapolis boat show before our first trip down the ICW - the old wiring was inadequate - it took us some time to figure out what the problem was and get it sorted out - we were down in Daytona still trying to figure it out. The same thing happened on another trip when we tried to use the follow-me-antenna and the TV - wiring was inadequate. The LectraSan stopped working and we had to get a new board for it while we were in Charleston and they shipped it to California by mistake (they said). Also the alternator bracket broke - Bob had to take it to the Caterpillar place in Summerville to get someone to weld it for him - there wasn't anyplace that would do it in Mt. Pleasant. We had the throttle cable break on our first trip while we were at anchor a day's travel south of Charleston. I discovered at the same time that I didn't have any electronic charts for Florida. We had some problems with the transmission in Florida. The staysail ripped out at the top when we were coming back up the ICW that first year, and the solar panel on the dinghy davits worked loose and flew away never to be seen again on that same trip. I've read that older boats have flaky electrical systems and it's often best to rewire them to modern standards right off the bat. Thanks for writing some of your experiences. I notice that most of them are wiring and installation issues, and that's good to know. I suspect Skip is having some of the same issues. Not knowing anything about marine engine installations, it's still surprising to me that an alternator bracket should break, and I'll be looking for that kind of weakness if it applies to my boat. Was the bracket corroded? Was the throttle cable binding before it broke? I've seen automotive e-brake and clutch cables break with no warning, so maybe fatigue does them in and they should be changed out on some sort of schedule. --Vic It takes too much space for the stuff for the compost. They work fine on land - not so much in the water. From reading accounts of those who use the Airhead, the compost material is some kind of coconut pith that comes in compressed blocks and storing it is no issue. The biggest issue with the Airhead is the liquid storage is only a couple gallons - and the price. One thing, I haven't read it not working, although I suppose it could somehow fail. --Vic |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:57:04 +0000, Larry wrote: Vic Smith wrote in m: Understand I haven't owned a sailboat, just intend to. Here, Vic.....I have a present for you and your SO....(c; Larry "The Liveaboard Simulator" snip Larry, I've read that before. Pretty good. But you failed to simulate the sunsets, the fishing, the cold beers, the pelican crap, etc, that come with the territory. Anyway, I don't want to live on a boat except for short (2-3 weeks) cruises. Just knowing there's a real bed waiting at the end of a cruise makes the cruising part an "adventure" or "vacation" instead of an ordeal. To me, anyway. But thanks for the reminder. --Vic Not to mention that most houses can't sail. ;-) |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... From reading accounts of those who use the Airhead, the compost material is some kind of coconut pith that comes in compressed blocks and storing it is no issue. The biggest issue with the Airhead is the liquid storage is only a couple gallons - and the price. One thing, I haven't read it not working, although I suppose it could somehow fail. --Vic The liquid can be tossed overboard anywhere, as I understand it. No FCB to worry about. I was always concerned about storing compost material, and availability of the "official" blocks. Don't know that you can get it just anywhere. It's also necessary to keep it warm for the composting to work, so it wouldn't work in northern climes over the winter during haulout. |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:17:47 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . From reading accounts of those who use the Airhead, the compost material is some kind of coconut pith that comes in compressed blocks and storing it is no issue. The biggest issue with the Airhead is the liquid storage is only a couple gallons - and the price. One thing, I haven't read it not working, although I suppose it could somehow fail. --Vic The liquid can be tossed overboard anywhere, as I understand it. No FCB to worry about. I was always concerned about storing compost material, and availability of the "official" blocks. Don't know that you can get it just anywhere. It's also necessary to keep it warm for the composting to work, so it wouldn't work in northern climes over the winter during haulout. I recall reading one cruiser's account that she gets "non-official" compressed blocks pretty cheap, and a year's worth is about the size of a breadbox, but I won't swear my memory is exact. And I do recall reading that the Airhead might not be suitable for cold weather. Otherwise no external heat source is required, but the small fan is supposed to run 24/7. There's only a little info from actual users out there, and I once posted here asking about it, but mistakenly stuck it in an unrelated thread. Dumping urine in the ocean doesn't seem like a big deal to me, but I don't have the experience to know what's acceptable and why on that score. --Vic |
August 3 - Sailing in Steerage
Vic Smith wrote in
: the pelican crap There's pelican crap, well maybe seagull, on the UPS Truck the family washed...(c; Larry -- Democrats are raising taxes on oil companies by $16,000,000,000. Oil companies don't pay taxes, just like every other company. Consumers pay all taxes, corporate and individual. What's the price of a gallon of regular going to go to to pay $16B more? |
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