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Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all
for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:18:19 GMT, "Verizon News" said: The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Such appalling economic ignorance. And his wife has a problem with healing over. I wonder what part heals over? DT |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Verizon News wrote:
The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Here's a suggestion. Next time there is a national election, work to defeat GOP oil whore candidates like Bush and Cheney, who hold secret meetings with the petrol industry to establish a "national energy policy" aimed at enriching big oil at the expense of everyone else. Work to elect populist candidates who will work to moderate rapacious corporations and who will not be afraid to impose excess profits taxes on those screwing the public. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"HK" wrote in message . .. Verizon News wrote: The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Here's a suggestion. Next time there is a national election, work to defeat GOP oil whore candidates like Bush and Cheney, who hold secret meetings with the petrol industry to establish a "national energy policy" aimed at enriching big oil at the expense of everyone else. Work to elect populist candidates who will work to moderate rapacious corporations and who will not be afraid to impose excess profits taxes on those screwing the public. ROTF. For a minute there I thought you were serious. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
HK wrote:
Here's a suggestion. Next time there is a national election, work to defeat GOP oil whore candidates like Bush and Cheney, who hold secret meetings with the petrol industry to establish a "national energy policy" aimed at enriching big oil at the expense of everyone else. Work to elect populist candidates who will work to moderate rapacious corporations and who will not be afraid to impose excess profits taxes on those screwing the public. Truly they are demons from Hell set upon us by Satan to oppress the honest working man whose wife can't stand heeling over - and nobody else! These demons don't even know the difference between the petroleum industry and the petrol industry because on their way up from Hell they passed through London. If only Algore were president then we'd have free petrol, the children would all be strong and straight, flowers would bloom in all seasons, the honeybees would offer us free honey, spiders would sing the national anthem, al Queda would decide to quit their mischiefs and instead become florists.... why oh why did the demons have to visit upon us at this otherwise wonderful era? The world wonders. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:57:40 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:
snnnip you do know you're retarded yes? kinda like a lucid dream...but it's not |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:18:19 GMT, "Verizon News" said: The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...-diesel-prices -are-outrageous Such appalling economic ignorance. If we could buy it in the UK for that price, we'd be laughing all the way to the bank! Try $5, and rising to $10 soon! Oh, our gallon is bigger than yours, but not much! DP |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:47:35 -0400, HK wrote:
Here's a suggestion. Next time there is a national election, work to defeat GOP oil whore candidates like Bush and Cheney, who hold secret meetings with the petrol industry to establish a "national energy policy" aimed at enriching big oil at the expense of everyone else. Work to elect populist candidates who will work to moderate rapacious corporations and who will not be afraid to impose excess profits taxes on those screwing the public. Sounds anti-American to me, almost even commie! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"Verizon News" wrote in message news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01... The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel. Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip vacations. I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Verizon News" wrote in message news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01... The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel. Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip vacations. I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just isn't going to cut it. By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships..... Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"Bruce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Verizon News" wrote in message news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01... The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel. Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip vacations. I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just isn't going to cut it. By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships..... I made the distinction quite clear with regards to 'recreational' use of marine diesel engines. Just like truck freight over the road depends of big diesel rigs so does freight over the oceans. In my opinion, it is an acceptable compromise to use diesel engines for commerce although I would like to see emission standards tightened up. But, when it comes to recreational use of diesel engines in boats I find this to be totally unacceptable. The typical marine recreational diesel meets NO emission standards that I know of. They are often old, decrepit, in ill-repair and in need of an overhaul. Visible smoke is more the rule than the exception. The stench of them is enough to sicken even the crew. And people continue to use them for recreational purposes. In other words, strictly for selfish reasons - their 'fun.' I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental standpoint. One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing. Wilbur Hubbard |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:57:40 -0600, Paul Cassel said: why oh why did the demons have to visit upon us at this otherwise wonderful era? The world wonders. LOL. Where'd you pick up that neat skewer, Paul? Mr.b seems to be missing a sense of humor. I'd say he's a laughable twit. Perhaps that's not the same as having a sense of humor after all. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental standpoint. One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing. There are unresolved safety issues with gasoline engines. You can very well say that sailing with a petrol engine is irresponsible because you can blow yourself, your family and others near you up. Also consider that if a tank of gasoline blows up, there are no pollution controls on that. I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. Also the least of my problems when sailing is becoming becalmed. I need my axillary to safely maneuver in tight places to assure safety to others in the area. I may need it to claw off a lee shore and in fact have. Yes, the old timers used sail only and there are wrecks on those lee shores to prove it. I don't want to join them. Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can form common cause. Else, sail away. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Paul Cassel wrote:
Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can form common cause. Else, sail away. Nice try, and well stated, Paul. But that's all this Wilbur guy does. Richard |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message . .. snip.... Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can form common cause. Else, sail away. You're replying to a roll who prides himself on spending his retirement years in a mustard yellow sailboat c/w mauve interior. This decaying hulk is usually found in some mosquito infested swamp one step ahead of the authorities. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Paul Cassel wrote in
: I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry -- Shhhh...Don't tell Algore... The Earth is COOLING! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Larry wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"HK" wrote in message ... Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil in his Mercedes tank. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil in his Mercedes tank. Good lord...he's still got that decrepit p.o.s.? Can't you just see Larry knocking on the back door of a McDonald's, five gallon jerry can in hand, begging for used fry oil? |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
HK wrote in
: Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? My 6.2L V-8 stepvan, an old Air Force truck, has a Frybrid running pure oil we get from 3 Chinese restaurants, settle it over a month, pipette 3" off the bottom then filter with 2 truck fuel filter-water seps into 55 gallon drums for usage. Two other guys in our cartel have Frybrids, one a Mercedes 300SD long wheelbase sedan, the other a Volkswagen diesel bug. Here in SC, it was all overkill, a waste of money. After watching a YouTube video from BBC's best car show, I tried what they were doing on my two old Mercedes diesel cars, one a restored 1973 Mercedes 220D and the other a 1983 Mercedes 300TD turbocharged, 5 cyl diesel station wagon. I'm currently running a pint of mineral spirits mixed in 20 gallons of frying oil in those cars, UNMODIFIED, with great success. Skip and Lydia, of Flying Pig fame, were riding around in my 220D on French Fried Oil last night....for free...(c; The only big difference I see is the oil fires a little slower, making less engine knock. They say it has less power and mileage, but I don't see that for me. When the Frybrid switches over from straight diesel, which it starts on to warm the oil to 160F from the heater water before its computer switches, automatically, to fryer oil, I see an increase in speed at the same throttle setting....more power, not less. I suppose my observation is subjective and very unscientific. What I DO notice is the truck went from $95/week to $5/week, overnight. All I have to do is move the 5 gallon oil containers from the restaurants to George's warehouse, in the truck for free of course. Mike, the guy with the Volkswagen, is in charge of "processing". I'm in "delivery". George is in "warehouse management" because it's his warehouse...(c; There's about 1400 gallons in the warehouse, tonight, but I got a call, yesterday, asking me to come get more free product from 2 of the 3 restaurants to make room in their kitchens, so that'll go up another hundred or so gallons Monday afternoon during the restaurant's afternoon break (They help me load if they're not real busy...(c;). The restaurants are all provided with a nice primary filter funnel with a fine screen strainer in the bottom of it to get the oil back from their cooling tank into the original plastic jugs it comes in, also solving their oil jug disposal problem. They don't mind, at all, doing this filtering from us as we are saving them about $100-200/month in disposal fees. Fuel in any city with restaurants is abundant if one gets off ones lazy ass and goes to get it. They dump the filter funnels in their garbage and what I take to the warehouse is fairly filtered of the big stuff. After we slowly pump 3" off the bottom of the jugs through our filtering system, the residue on the bottom is dumped into an empty container. When several jugs has filled that container, we set it aside for another month or so to settle it again. In 500 gallons of oil, we find about 2" of "sludge" in a 5 gallon jug that has settled out. This saves us changing the final filters, which have lasted nearly a year without plugging up. The oil we pump in the vehicles is so clear you can read through it. A gallon clear water bottle of it sits on my porch so I can watch for it to get cloudy in winter, which, in South Carolina, it has only done twice last year. A second clear bottle of the 80% oil/20% gasoline I WAS using last winter in the unmodified cars is also up there and it never clouds, at all. I've gotten away from gas/oil mix as mineral spirits from a commercial paint supplier is much cheaper than gas and I use less of it as a thinning agent. Runs great. All of this sounds good, but I cannot imagine how anyone is going to run it in a Hatteras 58 guzzling hundreds of gallons. How would you drag it to the boat, 6 gallons at a time? If you had a warehouse on a WHARF, say for fishing or shrimp boats....that would be a different matter! We have so much "surplus", we've discussed procuring a diesel genset and mounting it behind George's warehouse to turn the excess oil into power we can sell to South Carolina Electric and Gouge in a new program being tested. I found a 250KW, 12 cyl diesel genset I could have gotten for free, control system and all, but to get it here from Alabama would have cost us a fortune...(c; It was in a hospital and only had 700 hours on it. The hospital got a bigger one....two, actually. I sure would have loved to been operating that thing sync'd to the grid....nuts. Larry -- We're NOT running out of fuel. We're just running out of Oil Company fuel. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"Don White" wrote in
: Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil in his Mercedes tank. Ask Lydia or Skip how bad it smells.....Eye witnesses....(c; Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English. It just isn't fair. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in : Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? My 6.2L V-8 stepvan, an old Air Force truck, has a Frybrid running pure oil we get from 3 Chinese restaurants, settle it over a month, pipette 3" off the bottom then filter with 2 truck fuel filter-water seps into 55 gallon drums for usage. Two other guys in our cartel have Frybrids, one a Mercedes 300SD long wheelbase sedan, the other a Volkswagen diesel bug. Here in SC, it was all overkill, a waste of money. After watching a YouTube video from BBC's best car show, I tried what they were doing on my two old Mercedes diesel cars, one a restored 1973 Mercedes 220D and the other a 1983 Mercedes 300TD turbocharged, 5 cyl diesel station wagon. I'm currently running a pint of mineral spirits mixed in 20 gallons of frying oil in those cars, UNMODIFIED, with great success. Skip and Lydia, of Flying Pig fame, were riding around in my 220D on French Fried Oil last night....for free...(c; The only big difference I see is the oil fires a little slower, making less engine knock. They say it has less power and mileage, but I don't see that for me. When the Frybrid switches over from straight diesel, which it starts on to warm the oil to 160F from the heater water before its computer switches, automatically, to fryer oil, I see an increase in speed at the same throttle setting....more power, not less. I suppose my observation is subjective and very unscientific. What I DO notice is the truck went from $95/week to $5/week, overnight. All I have to do is move the 5 gallon oil containers from the restaurants to George's warehouse, in the truck for free of course. Mike, the guy with the Volkswagen, is in charge of "processing". I'm in "delivery". George is in "warehouse management" because it's his warehouse...(c; There's about 1400 gallons in the warehouse, tonight, but I got a call, yesterday, asking me to come get more free product from 2 of the 3 restaurants to make room in their kitchens, so that'll go up another hundred or so gallons Monday afternoon during the restaurant's afternoon break (They help me load if they're not real busy...(c;). The restaurants are all provided with a nice primary filter funnel with a fine screen strainer in the bottom of it to get the oil back from their cooling tank into the original plastic jugs it comes in, also solving their oil jug disposal problem. They don't mind, at all, doing this filtering from us as we are saving them about $100-200/month in disposal fees. Fuel in any city with restaurants is abundant if one gets off ones lazy ass and goes to get it. They dump the filter funnels in their garbage and what I take to the warehouse is fairly filtered of the big stuff. After we slowly pump 3" off the bottom of the jugs through our filtering system, the residue on the bottom is dumped into an empty container. When several jugs has filled that container, we set it aside for another month or so to settle it again. In 500 gallons of oil, we find about 2" of "sludge" in a 5 gallon jug that has settled out. This saves us changing the final filters, which have lasted nearly a year without plugging up. The oil we pump in the vehicles is so clear you can read through it. A gallon clear water bottle of it sits on my porch so I can watch for it to get cloudy in winter, which, in South Carolina, it has only done twice last year. A second clear bottle of the 80% oil/20% gasoline I WAS using last winter in the unmodified cars is also up there and it never clouds, at all. I've gotten away from gas/oil mix as mineral spirits from a commercial paint supplier is much cheaper than gas and I use less of it as a thinning agent. Runs great. All of this sounds good, but I cannot imagine how anyone is going to run it in a Hatteras 58 guzzling hundreds of gallons. How would you drag it to the boat, 6 gallons at a time? If you had a warehouse on a WHARF, say for fishing or shrimp boats....that would be a different matter! We have so much "surplus", we've discussed procuring a diesel genset and mounting it behind George's warehouse to turn the excess oil into power we can sell to South Carolina Electric and Gouge in a new program being tested. I found a 250KW, 12 cyl diesel genset I could have gotten for free, control system and all, but to get it here from Alabama would have cost us a fortune...(c; It was in a hospital and only had 700 hours on it. The hospital got a bigger one....two, actually. I sure would have loved to been operating that thing sync'd to the grid....nuts. Larry Cool. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:56:39 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Verizon News" wrote in message news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01... The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel. Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip vacations. I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just isn't going to cut it. By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships..... I made the distinction quite clear with regards to 'recreational' use of marine diesel engines. Just like truck freight over the road depends of big diesel rigs so does freight over the oceans. In my opinion, it is an acceptable compromise to use diesel engines for commerce although I would like to see emission standards tightened up. But, when it comes to recreational use of diesel engines in boats I find this to be totally unacceptable. The typical marine recreational diesel meets NO emission standards that I know of. They are often old, decrepit, in ill-repair and in need of an overhaul. Visible smoke is more the rule than the exception. The stench of them is enough to sicken even the crew. And people continue to use them for recreational purposes. In other words, strictly for selfish reasons - their 'fun.' I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental standpoint. One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing. Wilbur Hubbard First of all you do not compare apples to apples. Your rant appears to concern a new, computer controlled gasoline engine as compared to an older model direct injection diesel engine. And, yes, you are probably right that the modern engine produces less pollutants then the old style diesel. Of course this is a ridicules comparison -- as ridicules as condemning the amount of horse manure my grandfather's horse and buggy produced by comparing it to my father's Model 'A' Ford. I suggest that if you compare the pollutants produced by a modern computer controlled diesel engine to that produced by a modern gasoline engine you might find a different picture. As for the odors produced by engines I am assuming you are referring to the exhaust. A properly designed diesel system produces little, if any odor. As far as your statement that "I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no regard for anybody but their own selfish selves." is quite simply self serving bull****. If you really find the use of polluting devices appalling then you would be rowing your dinghy out to the mooring and sailing away -- no engine at all. But that isn't what you are doing. You have a gasoline engine that you use and then you try to justify your actions by saying, in effect, that your engine produces less pollutants than mine -- My daddy can lick your daddy, in other words. Very reminiscent of the 4th grade. Your final comment that "One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing" simply indicates that you have never actually "cruised". Oh, maybe a little day sailing but how many trips have you made where you didn't expect to see land for three weeks to a month? When you are sitting 250 miles off shore and the wind hasn't made a ripple on the water for three days, as happened to a friend of mine, you too might find the thought of trying to motor that 250 miles to get to a place you can buy some food and water as somewhat appealing. I had another friend that was depending on one of your recommended outboards, because his sail drive ate it's gears, and the wind stopped. It took him 10 days to make just a bit over 100 miles to shore, drifting most of the way. Those little outboard tanks sure don't carry much fuel. No Wildur, you go out and make a couple of real voyages and then come back and talk to me. You might even find that we'd agree on a lot more things that you think we would. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil in his Mercedes tank. The puppy speaks again! Good boy! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
"Dan" wrote in message link.net... Don White wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Larry wrote: Paul Cassel wrote in : I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes - both times with deaths. That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection is setup way wrong.... What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR Dioxide! www.frybrid.com Larry Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what? Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil in his Mercedes tank. The puppy speaks again! Good boy! Well..well...mention "stinking up the area" and look who pops up...Dirty Dan! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:38:47 +0000, Larry wrote:
The oil we pump in the vehicles is so clear you can read through it. A gallon clear water bottle of it sits on my porch so I can watch for it to get cloudy in winter, which, in South Carolina, it has only done twice last year. A second clear bottle of the 80% oil/20% gasoline I WAS using last winter in the unmodified cars is also up there and it never clouds, at all. I don't understand. Does cloudy == freezing? |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
This whole thread is pretty goofy considering all the two stroke
British Seagulls out there using 10:1 oil mix. Course the newer ones use 25:1 ! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:13:57 -0300, "Don White"
wrote: "Paul Cassel" wrote in message ... snip.... Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can form common cause. Else, sail away. You're replying to a roll who prides himself on spending his retirement years in a mustard yellow sailboat c/w mauve interior. This decaying hulk is usually found in some mosquito infested swamp one step ahead of the authorities. I would have expected that for someone who uses abusive language whilst sheltering within the web as much as he does that he would be able to spell "ass" correctly. Wilbur or aka whomsoever you are, the correct spelling of the last sphincter muscle of the alimentary canal is "ARSE" Please use this correct spelling in the future when you launch into your wearisome vitriolic attacks. Kindest regards Peter |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:49:44 +0700, Bruce
wrote: Your final comment that "One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing" simply indicates that you have never actually "cruised". Oh, maybe a little day sailing but how many trips have you made where you didn't expect to see land for three weeks to a month? When you are sitting 250 miles off shore and the wind hasn't made a ripple on the water for three days, as happened to a friend of mine, you too might find the thought of trying to motor that 250 miles to get to a place you can buy some food and water as somewhat appealing. I had another friend that was depending on one of your recommended outboards, because his sail drive ate it's gears, and the wind stopped. It took him 10 days to make just a bit over 100 miles to shore, drifting most of the way. Those little outboard tanks sure don't carry much fuel. No Wildur, you go out and make a couple of real voyages and then come back and talk to me. You might even find that we'd agree on a lot more things that you think we would. Very well said Bruce cheers Peter |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard Wait a minute!!....... Isn't this the same person who posted a while back that he used TBT in his antifouling? God is great!!! This man has had a sudden about-face conversion into an environmentalist! How did this inspirational sudden insight take place Wilbur? Was in whilst you were sniffing your petrol tank? I have heard a lot about the evils of petrol sniffing but never diesel sniffing; another reason why is it is more socioenvironmentally friendly. Ever so kindest regards Peter Hendra |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
thunder wrote in news:pan.2007.07.22.04.07.26
@TAKEOUTgti.net: I don't understand. Does cloudy == freezing? As temperature drops, unwinterized diesel fuel, as well as frying oil, solidifies at some temperature. If it gets really cold, it looks like Crisco. Crisco has a much higher melting point than Canola oil, which is what most of the frying oil is. So, systems like Frybrid, HEAT the oil, using the hot water from the heater hose off the engine to heat the pickup area of the tank, the oil lines to the engine, the fuel filter, and a big heat exchanger that raises the oil to 160F which makes it have the same viscosity as diesel fuel for proper injection before feeding it through some switching valves to the injection pump. Viscosity of it varies greatly with temperature. Hotter is thinner, obviously. At the smoking point on a stove, it's like water. We can run on Crisco if you get it hot enough. Diesel engines were originally designed for vegetable oil, but when it was discovered they'd run on dino fuel oil and kerosene which was dirt cheap at the time, they started running them all on dino fuel oil. It'll run on anything that will burn if you can figure out how to inject it at TDC just right, even liquified wood. The "Cloud point" of unwinterized diesel fuel, which is quite simply diesel and gasoline mixed, is around 30F. Vegetable oil clouds around 45F, so if you're going to run it in winter, raw, you need to heat it. That's what the Frybrid and other oil heater systems do...so we can inject it. If diesel manufacturers would change their injection system back to vegetable oils, all these "conversions" would be unnecessary. Mercedes diesels specify you may burn heavier #3 diesel oil if you mix it with kerosene, right in their manual. Us frying oil injectors have just taken that a few steps further...(c; Larry -- Riding down the interstate at 70 for nearly free feels just wonderful! |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Bruce wrote in
: self serving bull****. Wilbur is a professional. Don't try this at home! Larry -- |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Gordon wrote in
: This whole thread is pretty goofy considering all the two stroke British Seagulls out there using 10:1 oil mix. Course the newer ones use 25:1 ! This is also an interesting point...... According to the greenies, because we were ALL burning gas mixed 10:1 or 15:1 with Quaker State SAE 30 motor oil from the Flying A for the first 100 years or so of outboard motor technology, by the millions......All the lakes in the USA should be between 6 inches and 3 feet deep in greasy motor oil the old motors used to be covered with, preventing them from ever corroding, by the way. The lakes, as you may have noticed, where greasy outboard motors leave a trail of pollution on their surfaces...but who are not being used as a sewer by cities and industries...are just fine and full of fish. Why is that? Could 2-stroke Quaker State EVAPORATE...like it does in the crankcase?? What a silly idea! That's not going to create panic and a government grant that goes on forever! Case in point is the lake I grew up on, Owasco Lake in the Finger Lakes of upstate NY. Everyone had septic tanks or cesspools, even in Moravia, my hometown. There was no "sewer system" until the Feds moved in and forced everyone to feed a new system that dumped its **** into the "Inlet", the inlet to Owasco Lake. We all drank the lake water while fishing for the first 18 years of my life. The lake was overrun on any Saturday with nasty old Evinrudes, Kieffauver Mercurys, Johnsons, Scott A****ers (Grandpa had a Scott 40 on the big boat), etc. We ran 10:1 tractor gas with Quaker State SAE 30 in it. When I was little, I used to get to pour the oil into the gas can....by the quart! I still love that smell...(c; The lake was full of fish, bullheads, pickerel, walleyed pike, trout, bass, etc. Bullheads used to run towards the Coleman gas lanterns my grandfather and his friends would line the shore with after dark and we would snatchhook them as fast as you could cast. Everyone had 3 or 4 freezers to stuff them all in. Then the greenies showed up. We had to stop polluting the valley with our septic tanks, cesspools, ****ing in the lawns, and all the old 1800's "camps", little houses along the lake used by the city folks only in summer, had to tear down their outhouses behind the garages across the dirt road from their camps. (If you were out fishing and "had to go", you simply stopped at any lakeside camp, knocked on a door, and asked to use their outhouse. It was fine. The BEST nightcrawlers for more fishing were in the leaves right behind the outhouses, too...real MONSTERS!) Towns were all forced into the sewage business. It dumped into the inlet, polluting the lake. Google "Owasco Lake", with the quote marks for better sorting. Read the terrible reports of algae blooms, dead fish, etc., that is Owasco Lake, Sewer, in 2007. They should have left my lake and its people alone. They were fine..... Larry -- So was their old, blue Evinrude Sportwins going fishing at 5AM..... |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
HK wrote:
Verizon News wrote: The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous Here's a suggestion. Next time there is a national election, work to defeat GOP oil whore candidates like Bush and Cheney, who hold secret meetings with the petrol industry to establish a "national energy policy" aimed at enriching big oil at the expense of everyone else. Work to elect populist candidates who will work to moderate rapacious corporations and who will not be afraid to impose excess profits taxes on those screwing the public. Who is being offered by the two parties? They are both playing the globalist, partnership of business and government, tear up the Constitution game. Nay a word from either side of the aisle about reigning in the oil cabal that has a stranglehold on our economy. Inflation is correctly defined as devaluation in our present time. George Bush's mandate is globalism. He said he is a globalist. Oeioke seem to take some good interpretations of that word as to what this partnership of government and big (global) business is doing to our economy and the destruction of our Constitution and Republic. |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
wrote in message
... On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:13:57 -0300, "Don White" wrote: "Paul Cassel" wrote in message m... snip.... Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can form common cause. Else, sail away. You're replying to a roll who prides himself on spending his retirement years in a mustard yellow sailboat c/w mauve interior. This decaying hulk is usually found in some mosquito infested swamp one step ahead of the authorities. I would have expected that for someone who uses abusive language whilst sheltering within the web as much as he does that he would be able to spell "ass" correctly. Wilbur or aka whomsoever you are, the correct spelling of the last sphincter muscle of the alimentary canal is "ARSE" Please use this correct spelling in the future when you launch into your wearisome vitriolic attacks. Kindest regards Peter Peter, you should refrain from contradicting a well-known expert on that part of the anatomy. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:49:44 +0700, Bruce wrote: Your final comment that "One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing" simply indicates that you have never actually "cruised". Oh, maybe a little day sailing but how many trips have you made where you didn't expect to see land for three weeks to a month? When you are sitting 250 miles off shore and the wind hasn't made a ripple on the water for three days, as happened to a friend of mine, you too might find the thought of trying to motor that 250 miles to get to a place you can buy some food and water as somewhat appealing. I had another friend that was depending on one of your recommended outboards, because his sail drive ate it's gears, and the wind stopped. It took him 10 days to make just a bit over 100 miles to shore, drifting most of the way. Those little outboard tanks sure don't carry much fuel. No Wildur, you go out and make a couple of real voyages and then come back and talk to me. You might even find that we'd agree on a lot more things that you think we would. Very well said Bruce Very well said if you like listening to ignorance personified. I guess you identify with that mode of operation? Bruce comes out and says a voyaging sailor can't be becalmed for two or three days because he'll run out of food and water. He needs that diesel engine so he can go to shore and get more food and water. Bwahahahhahahah! Some cruising sailor! If you don't have adequate food and water for at least TWO MONTHS aboard at all times when cruising then stay off the oceans. You obviously don't belong there. Bruce apparently has that week-ender attitude but claims he's some sort of cruising expert. What a sham! One can put a Honda 4-stroke 9.9HP on a transom bracket and in calm conditions make four knots even with a forty-foot sailboat provided the bottom is clean. At four knots you use about a quart of gasoline per hour. That's 16 miles per gallon. The engine meets California emission standards. It burns no oil because it ain't no crummy, 2-stroke technology. Ten gallons of gasoline will take you 160 miles. If you don't carry a couple six-gallon jerry cans of gasoline then you can only blame yourself. If Bruce is the type who's unprepared and running out of provisions after only two or three days off shore then perhaps he might need to rely on a motor but I say that's a very stupid way to cruise. Myself, I could stay for a month becalmed and still have provisions enough to last several more weeks. And, my boat's only a 32-footer. I've cruised many times for weeks on end. And offshore. I don't expect to have to stop someplace and get food and water every couple or three days. That's not the way I cruise. Even when land is at hand and I anchor here and there in remote places away from the crush of humanity for weeks at a time I have little desire to visit a store every couple days. When I'm anchored for a while in a harbor somewhere near a grocery store I might allow my provisions to become somewhat depleted because I like to take that chance to use up the older items before they have a chance to go off. But when I choose to continue my cruise I stock up fresh with at least two months of food, water and other necessary supplies (rum). I also have a nice blue tarp which I can use to collect rain water in an emergency. I know how to fish and I can live for weeks and months on fish, rice and limes. One never knows when the urge will strike to go'round. Having the urgent desire to run to land just because the wind doesn't blow for a couple days tells me Bruce and his friends have no business calling themselves sailor's. Wimps and a lubbers would be more like it, in my opinion. And your siding with them doesn't say much for your level of sailing knowledge or experience, either. What you demonstrate with your sucking up to pretenders is you're a pretender yourself. You, Bruce and his impatient, unprepared friend with a forty-foot boat that only holds three days of food and water haven't a clue. Real sailors don't rely on a motor as much as you advocate they do. You advocate it because you just don't know any better. But, that's typical behavior for most run-of-the-mill lubbers. Get a sailboat and use it like a trawler. Then go around trying to convince other people your misconceptions and impatience is the rule. Well you don't convince any real sailors, that's for sure. Wilbur Hubbard |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's 'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I cannot excuse such hedonism. I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke, gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with.... Wilbur Hubbard Wait a minute!!....... Isn't this the same person who posted a while back that he used TBT in his antifouling? God is great!!! This man has had a sudden about-face conversion into an environmentalist! How did this inspirational sudden insight take place Wilbur? Was in whilst you were sniffing your petrol tank? I have heard a lot about the evils of petrol sniffing but never diesel sniffing; another reason why is it is more socioenvironmentally friendly. Ever so kindest regards Peter Hendra Nobody ever said TBT contributes to the greenhouse effect and global warming. As long as the Navy uses it on their huge ships I'll feel free to use it on my little sailboat. Nobody has to smell it, nobody has to breathe it, nobody has to be exposed to it unless they decide to chew on the bottom of my boat. Who cares about some baby barnacles and algae spores that have to find a better place to live, anyway? Not me! Wilbur Hubbard |
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
|
Marine Diesel Prices are Outrageous
Gordon wrote in news:13a7b2cj5o6dcf1
@corp.supernews.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4gOS8aoFk 8KW in......8 watts out......a regular perpetual motion machine! And, it only takes a $8.2M RF generator to start it! But, alas, the Toyota guys have seen this.....(c; Sure looked more like it was ARCING than BURNING, didn't it? Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. While in Florida, I had to press 2 for English. It just isn't fair. |
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