Doug Dotson wrote:
I just wish there were some sort of standards for surveying ...

There are, only they are not widespread in the US. Almost all European and
many southern hemisphere countries have such regs. FWIW we sometimes see
Lloyd's specs in the US, but there is little indication that a _requirement_
for this will spread any time soon.


--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Doug Dotson wrote:
I just wish there were some sort of standards for surveying ...

There are, only they are not widespread in the US. Almost all European and
many southern hemisphere countries have such regs. FWIW we sometimes see
Lloyd's specs in the US, but there is little indication that a _requirement_
for this will spread any time soon.


--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

I just wish there were some sort of standards for surveying. Each
surveyor seems to have their own personal issues they concentrate
on while glossing over or ignoring others. One surveyor listed a
number of "required items" which I complied with. A couple of
years later another surveyor listed "required items" that required
me to undo most of what the previous surveyor listed.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.

Doug
s/v Callista


The seem to think they have a responsibility to verify all the safety
equipment..

I even had one surveyor who insisted (strongly recommended) that I have
MOB
gear aboard even though she knew I was a single hander.. Said the
insurance
companies wanted info in boat safety equipment.

Yah! I agree. But I know that they poke their nose into everything but the
areas they should be looking, like spungy decks, etc.

For the last insurance survey I went so far as to remove the life raft
since
it was past it's inspection date and I didn't want him to list it and that
fact.

Both of the last two surveyors I have had were recommended by my insurance
company, even though I was paying for the survey.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis

Some of these surveyors, I believe, are on the insurance co. 'short list' or
referral list. I suspect that looking into all of the safety equipment gives
the surveyor a feel for the skippers attitude towards safety /condtion of
the vessel.

I usually make every effort to have all the gear laid out so he doesn't have
to waste any time on it.. Time saved while waiting for me to find a safety
item is time you could use to check for some truly significant items. Plus,
it just demonstrates my interest and concern about these matters.

The last surveyor I use is a semi retired merchant master and also served in
the USCG. I'm not afraid of what he might find on my boat, but when he ask
about a bell, I reminded him that my boat was under the required length
requiring a bell. I think the only reason he ask was because he normal does
larger and commercial vessels.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Some of these surveyors, I believe, are on the insurance co. 'short list' or
referral list. I suspect that looking into all of the safety equipment gives
the surveyor a feel for the skippers attitude towards safety /condtion of
the vessel.

I usually make every effort to have all the gear laid out so he doesn't have
to waste any time on it.. Time saved while waiting for me to find a safety
item is time you could use to check for some truly significant items. Plus,
it just demonstrates my interest and concern about these matters.

The last surveyor I use is a semi retired merchant master and also served in
the USCG. I'm not afraid of what he might find on my boat, but when he ask
about a bell, I reminded him that my boat was under the required length
requiring a bell. I think the only reason he ask was because he normal does
larger and commercial vessels.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

OTOH we've had 1 purchase survey and several insurance surveys and all
of them addressed all or most of those items. I thought that was the
norm.

I just got out the initial survey to look at it and on the last page
it addresses:

Minimum Inshore and Coastal Equipment
-horn and/or whistle (aboard)
-bell (none observed)
-PFDs - aboard all US CG approved including throwable type IV
-fire extinguishers - all mounted and show charge
-automatic fire suppression for engine room (none at that time, but
we've got one now)
-compass (Ritchie) and deviation table for compass (none observed)
-distress flares (aboard and correspond to CG regulations)
-anchors (listed the Danforth)
-gas vapor detector (none but we have one now)
-high bilge alarm (none)
-first aid kit (none observed but we have one now)
-bilge pumps - work
- EPIRB (none but we have one now)
-USCG No discharge sign (posted)
-Federal no dumping sign-posted (no garbage management plan was seen,
but we have one now)

Of course all the surveyors were from the same office. The
pre-purchase surveyor was the head guy in the office and we picked him
on the recommendation of several trusted friends and relatives as THE
surveyor in the area (the broker was unhappy but couldn't do anything
about it), and he lived up to his reputation. In fact when we
switched insurance companies, the new insurance company took his
pre-purchase survey without requiring another one. The other
surveyors from that office used the initial survey to check off that
we'd fixed the things that were mentioned as deficient in the first
survey.

We did have a CGX courtesy inspection, and Bob did not show them the
autoinflate PFDs that we wear when underway because they aren't
approved. He just showed them the regular life vests.


"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis




grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

After perhaps 8 or so surveys over the years being both purchase
surveys (which are the expensive ones) and insurance surveys (
which are the cheaper ones), I've never had any surveyor mention
anything about the CG mandated equipment other than fire extinguishers
begin sufficuent and current. None of any of the surveyors checklists
contained anything about flares, signalling devices, PFDs, waste
management plan, oil discharge placard, waste discharge rules placard,
etc. Those items are left to the CG safety inspection or the courtesy
inspections conducted by the CG Aux. No insurance has had any
complaints other than sending me a form that I could indicate that
I complied or wil comply with the "required" items.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
A surveyor has no business in this kind of thing.


Why do you say that?

I have had several surveys done, and each time I had the option of a
"limited" survey focusing on a specific item or a "general" survey that
covered overall value, integrity and condition.

The insurance company is going to want the overall survey, and they will
want to know that the vessel has all the "recommended" safety equipment,
which is often over and above the required list. In order to provide such
a
survey to the insurance company, the surveyor DOES have the business of
being in this kind of thing.

Rod McInnis