Hi...

"padeen" wrote in message
...
Hey Skip, thanks for the rundown. I'm facing the same routine this coming
spring, though with some different parameters. But I thought if you'd be
so
kind to post your database; not the info, just the headers, I could see
how
you organized your data. 200 boats!

I can't really post it, because it's in a format the newsgroup wouldn't
accept, unless you'd like it in a tab-delimited file you could import to a
spreadsheet. Of course, that would look pretty much like gobbledygook until
it was imported :{))

However, what I did to organize is made several columns, and three rows
(plus a blank row separator) per boat. The columns were map (how to find it
on the map, wihch I put on the first line of each selection - and on the
third line, I put the boat number in the search, which came after I'd laid
it out in the geography order), contact (the way to reach the seller, which
was always an email except in very infrequent FSBOs), the market (major
geographical location such as MIA or ANN as in Miami and Annapolis - which
helped me in the layout of each trip), the YachtWorld listing number (so
that any broker I'd sent the appropriate portion of the spreadsheet could
easily find it), the boat type (Island Packet 38 - IP38, e.g.) the price in
decimal boatbux (95.9, e.g.) and D/L (loosely called sailing ratio, the
Displacement to Waterline number which we'd want to fall in the mid 2-300
range). All that went on the first line. If there were other important
things you'd want to know in what I'd call a gross description, you could
add them, of course. I organized each cell to take the minimum necessary
space in order to get as many qualifiers as possible. I also printed in
landscape, for the same reason.

The second line started in the second column (and really just used the
second cell, but the text ran on over to however long it took). The first
cell was left blank in order to leave the map and search (our number from 1
to, currently, 175 boats seen in the US, with the remainder, after knocking
off the ones we found unworkable, and the ones we've dumped as too big, now
that we've gotten at least some candidates below 40', to be filled in when I
set up the next trip) open. Back to the second line, it was a shorthand
(DMD = dinghy, motor and davits, for example) quickie list of the things we
found important about this boat, since I carried only the front page of the
YachtWorld listing with me and those usually didn't have any other than a
brief puff piece about the boat, but did have the listing number and the
broker phone number on them, so that I could call if I needed (as I surely
did in this case, you'll recall!).

The third line likewise was actually the second cell; it had the URL for the
main page of that boat. I've found that invaluable to quickly revisit a page
for a boat when I'm trying to recall what was up about it.

In doing my search, I organized using Yachtworld's advanced search, and
specified the area I wanted to see, and the size and cost limitations I
wanted. Then, working down from largest to smallest, I entered the info
from each one I found that I thought I'd want to see into my database.
Since the process took much longer than just a week, I also signed up for
the update service (they send you a list of new listings each week) so that
I didn't have to regenerate the search each time, and so that I didn't have
to try to remember if I'd actually seen a particular boat in the listings or
not (after the first few hundred, it gets difficult!). I also developed
another little trick, taking advantage of my history/memory in the browser.
Since my search ran to 12 pages of 100 each, in order to not have to find my
place each time I quit, I took the current URL of the advanced search page
from the browser URL line, copied it, and pasted it into a new window, and
opened it. That made the history see that as a manual entry, and I just
went to the most recent YW URL in the history when I started up again.
Then, once I'd actually finished, I went through my updates (from the YW
service) and inserted the new ones in the database.

Because I did so many of these, I got adept at doing them in text form, but
until you've done it a while, likely you'd find it easier to do in the
spreadsheet format...

So, in the end, I have a database of boats we're considering ranked in size
from largest to smallest. I've also identified markets, in order to sort
for best travel organization. Since I'm not particularly adept in
spreadsheet formatting, I don't know how to sort my entries (being 4 lines,
including a blank separator between entries) in Excel, so I did my sorting
in Word (the file was far too large for notepad, where I originally started
the construction!). I still kept the largest first, but went to each market
in turn (having first laid out the route I wanted to take) by doing a search
for the map key (ANN=1, NVA=2, etc.) and cut-and-pasting them so that they
would be easily recognizable in the end. Then I re-import *that* file into
a new database which is organized, then, by market, in the order I'm going
to see them. The final step is to go back into the map column and number
each of the entries in sequence (first boat seen = 1, last, in this most
recent trip = 175)

That step makes it easier for me to go back later and retrieve any hard copy
file (I keep them in a notebook as I go, keeping them in numerical order)
when I'm doing a review, or trying to remember why it was that I rejected a
boat.

That's a very long answer to what might have been a very short question.
I'm happy to send the raw or Excel - entered database if it's of any
interest, but unless you're one with many of the same parameters as we, the
individual boats wouldn't likely be interesting to you.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

"Skip Gundlach"
.due.to.spam wrote in
message ink.net...

big snip

I don't know how to sort my entries (being 4 lines,
including a blank separator between entries) in Excel, so I did my sorting
in Word (the file was far too large for notepad, where I originally
started
the construction!). I still kept the largest first, but went to each
market

There are several ways to do this. The easiest is to number each dataset in
column A (so that you'd have four lines numbered 1, then four numbered 2,
etc.) then in column B, the individual lines numbered 1,2,3,4. Then put the
different sort keys on all four rows of each dataset in columns C,D,E... as
required. So, column C could have the length in all four rows, column D the
location, and so forth. This means you have a little redundant data, but
you can use the Excel sort or data functions easily. For example, to get a
list in location order, sort on D,A,B which first sorts location, then puts
all of boat number ten together, then sorts the four lines of each boat into
order.

Refinements would include using a decimal number (boat number sixteen would
have in its four rows in column A: 16.1,16.2,16.3 and 16.4, which would
allow you to have only one column for the number.
Then, if A was the number, B the length, and C the location, sorting C.B,A
would give you a listed sorted by location, then length.

Another way, is to have two worksheets (in the same workbook). On the first
(call it "Main"), have all the data for each boat on one line -- this may be
unreadable, but it's easy to sort. On the second (call it "LookHere"),
organize the lines in a readable fashion. However many lines per boat you
want. When you re-sort "Main", the "LookHere" references are to the same
cell as before the sort, so that "LookHere" shows the data in the new order.
(a cell in LookHere that has +Main!A1 in it, will always show the column A
data for the first row in Main) Although this is a little harder to set up,
it has the advantage that you can sort on any column.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..

"Skip Gundlach"
.due.to.spam wrote in
message ink.net...

big snip

I don't know how to sort my entries (being 4 lines,
including a blank separator between entries) in Excel, so I did my sorting
in Word (the file was far too large for notepad, where I originally
started
the construction!). I still kept the largest first, but went to each
market

There are several ways to do this. The easiest is to number each dataset in
column A (so that you'd have four lines numbered 1, then four numbered 2,
etc.) then in column B, the individual lines numbered 1,2,3,4. Then put the
different sort keys on all four rows of each dataset in columns C,D,E... as
required. So, column C could have the length in all four rows, column D the
location, and so forth. This means you have a little redundant data, but
you can use the Excel sort or data functions easily. For example, to get a
list in location order, sort on D,A,B which first sorts location, then puts
all of boat number ten together, then sorts the four lines of each boat into
order.

Refinements would include using a decimal number (boat number sixteen would
have in its four rows in column A: 16.1,16.2,16.3 and 16.4, which would
allow you to have only one column for the number.
Then, if A was the number, B the length, and C the location, sorting C.B,A
would give you a listed sorted by location, then length.

Another way, is to have two worksheets (in the same workbook). On the first
(call it "Main"), have all the data for each boat on one line -- this may be
unreadable, but it's easy to sort. On the second (call it "LookHere"),
organize the lines in a readable fashion. However many lines per boat you
want. When you re-sort "Main", the "LookHere" references are to the same
cell as before the sort, so that "LookHere" shows the data in the new order.
(a cell in LookHere that has +Main!A1 in it, will always show the column A
data for the first row in Main) Although this is a little harder to set up,
it has the advantage that you can sort on any column.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..

I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring, I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

Padeen

Hi, Padeen,

"padeen" wrote in message
...
I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking
for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring,

I don't know about that. The vast bulk of what I looked at in my first
trip, in early May, is still there. Of course, I've got the spreadsheet,
still, and in some cases, where I wasn't sure of the facts of a boat we'd
originally rejected (since we'd modified our requirements to accommodate the
reality that we couldn't have them, and were considering boats which now
might fit), went back to review.

Of course, some of those didn't work. But most of them were still
available, and the first boat we offered on is still available, too. The
boat we made our offer on, which was accepted in a flash, has been on the
market for just under 3 years. One of the other boats in which we had a
serious interest, but eventually passed on, had been on the market for more
than 3 years when we saw it (it sold recently at a further reduced price).
The boat which accepted was at a price nearly 1/3 less than the asking price
only a few months ago - and I speculate that it was reduced from something
higher at that, as the price which was accepted was on the order of 60% of
other like boats' asking price.

So, with some exceptions, I'd not be concerned about ones you're interested
in (as a class - an individual boat might be gone) evaporating,
necessarily...

I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it
would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

My pleasure. Let me know if there's any of my research which may be of use.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Padeen

Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Rufus

Hi, again :{))

"Rufus" wrote in message
...
Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Indeed. We are doing that, except our expectations have been upset in the
other direction (I hit where we've been led to believe that I won't).
Usually I don't have any hard (excuse the expression!) information about
headroom - just an inference or scuttlebutt. Case in point is the Hans
Christian 33 - we'd been on one, before we even considered, much less
organized, our search. So, we didn't really pay attention - and made the
assumption that it might be close, but wouldn't work. In addition, and in
this case the real reason for not having at least tried one on, they were
well above our original budget, so we didn't give them a thought.

This trip, I got aboard one, just to see. Sure enough, I hit my head - but
just a bit. Took off my docksiders (as I would normally be anywhere we'd
sail, anyway) and found that I only brushed, and could not 'hit' anywhere
other than in the shower, including the bunk. So, they're on our list,
though further down, due to the exterior teak (see commentary about value
ratings/appraisal comparables).

As others have lamented, I *think* I'm being thorough and not throwing any
babies out with the bathwater :{))

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, vicariously)

Hi, again :{))

"Rufus" wrote in message
...
Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Indeed. We are doing that, except our expectations have been upset in the
other direction (I hit where we've been led to believe that I won't).
Usually I don't have any hard (excuse the expression!) information about
headroom - just an inference or scuttlebutt. Case in point is the Hans
Christian 33 - we'd been on one, before we even considered, much less
organized, our search. So, we didn't really pay attention - and made the
assumption that it might be close, but wouldn't work. In addition, and in
this case the real reason for not having at least tried one on, they were
well above our original budget, so we didn't give them a thought.

This trip, I got aboard one, just to see. Sure enough, I hit my head - but
just a bit. Took off my docksiders (as I would normally be anywhere we'd
sail, anyway) and found that I only brushed, and could not 'hit' anywhere
other than in the shower, including the bunk. So, they're on our list,
though further down, due to the exterior teak (see commentary about value
ratings/appraisal comparables).

As others have lamented, I *think* I'm being thorough and not throwing any
babies out with the bathwater :{))

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, vicariously)

Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Rufus

Hi, Padeen,

"padeen" wrote in message
...
I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking
for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring,

I don't know about that. The vast bulk of what I looked at in my first
trip, in early May, is still there. Of course, I've got the spreadsheet,
still, and in some cases, where I wasn't sure of the facts of a boat we'd
originally rejected (since we'd modified our requirements to accommodate the
reality that we couldn't have them, and were considering boats which now
might fit), went back to review.

Of course, some of those didn't work. But most of them were still
available, and the first boat we offered on is still available, too. The
boat we made our offer on, which was accepted in a flash, has been on the
market for just under 3 years. One of the other boats in which we had a
serious interest, but eventually passed on, had been on the market for more
than 3 years when we saw it (it sold recently at a further reduced price).
The boat which accepted was at a price nearly 1/3 less than the asking price
only a few months ago - and I speculate that it was reduced from something
higher at that, as the price which was accepted was on the order of 60% of
other like boats' asking price.

So, with some exceptions, I'd not be concerned about ones you're interested
in (as a class - an individual boat might be gone) evaporating,
necessarily...

I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it
would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

My pleasure. Let me know if there's any of my research which may be of use.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Padeen