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"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
WaIIy wrote:
Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? Sounds to me like he's doing a good job in shopping carefully. What's your problem? DSK |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
WaIIy wrote:
Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? Sounds to me like he's doing a good job in shopping carefully. What's your problem? DSK |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Howdy...
"WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 03:14:14 GMT, "Skip Gundlach" .due.to.spam wrote: Howdy... I'm in the next stage of our boat search, with very encouraging results. We've found several boats which work for us; the next step is to continue with the trip(s) to the rest of the close to 200 candidates identified in this last research. I'll expand on that in a separate post. Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? That's an entirely valid question, given the amount of exposure this group has had to the process. Of course, most of the readers here can't adequately relate without having come off a boat with head bleeding (as happened on this last trip), because the search process is immeasurably (OK, someone could probably quantify it!) more difficult when the universe of boats on which I can fit is so small, and despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. The stern cabin was appropriately sized to the walk-through, which is to say that I walked right off again, having proved it to be a "bonk boat" - my name for the rejects due to height. Now that I'm finished with my excuses, you'll be thrilled to know that I put up a 2-digit number of boatbux as the deposit on a boat 8 days ago, which offer was immediately accepted. The fact that we rejected the boat after the offer was accepted (details privately if of any interest to any here), and the monies about to be refunded isn't germane to your question. So, the answer is yes. But I refuse to go into a high 5 or low 6 figure investment which I intend to live on for the rest of my days (which is likely to be a very long time) without being satisfied that I'll not only enjoy it, but that it will be a good investment should I have to leave, for whatever reason. Stay tuned. We've now got more than one candidate, and my next trip has another dozen or so potentials we've not yet been aboard (see above for expectations of truth in advertising, however!), of boats which work, under 40 feet, and several which also work in the low 40s. Just doing my due diligence. If you think it inappropriate, I've got a business I'd like to sell you... :{)) And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Yes, we're going to buy a boat... L8R Skip |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Howdy...
"WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 03:14:14 GMT, "Skip Gundlach" .due.to.spam wrote: Howdy... I'm in the next stage of our boat search, with very encouraging results. We've found several boats which work for us; the next step is to continue with the trip(s) to the rest of the close to 200 candidates identified in this last research. I'll expand on that in a separate post. Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? That's an entirely valid question, given the amount of exposure this group has had to the process. Of course, most of the readers here can't adequately relate without having come off a boat with head bleeding (as happened on this last trip), because the search process is immeasurably (OK, someone could probably quantify it!) more difficult when the universe of boats on which I can fit is so small, and despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. The stern cabin was appropriately sized to the walk-through, which is to say that I walked right off again, having proved it to be a "bonk boat" - my name for the rejects due to height. Now that I'm finished with my excuses, you'll be thrilled to know that I put up a 2-digit number of boatbux as the deposit on a boat 8 days ago, which offer was immediately accepted. The fact that we rejected the boat after the offer was accepted (details privately if of any interest to any here), and the monies about to be refunded isn't germane to your question. So, the answer is yes. But I refuse to go into a high 5 or low 6 figure investment which I intend to live on for the rest of my days (which is likely to be a very long time) without being satisfied that I'll not only enjoy it, but that it will be a good investment should I have to leave, for whatever reason. Stay tuned. We've now got more than one candidate, and my next trip has another dozen or so potentials we've not yet been aboard (see above for expectations of truth in advertising, however!), of boats which work, under 40 feet, and several which also work in the low 40s. Just doing my due diligence. If you think it inappropriate, I've got a business I'd like to sell you... :{)) And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Yes, we're going to buy a boat... L8R Skip |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Skip Gundlach wrote: ..... despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your time. I threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to deal with when hunting for our last boat. And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted, only to fall through, before we landed 'the one.' Yes, we're going to buy a boat... I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a boat." A lot of brokers could not tell the difference. We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really liked & would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the boats actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six months later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after paying to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we made offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a wonder that anybody actually buys boats at all. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Skip Gundlach wrote: ..... despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your time. I threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to deal with when hunting for our last boat. And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted, only to fall through, before we landed 'the one.' Yes, we're going to buy a boat... I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a boat." A lot of brokers could not tell the difference. We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really liked & would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the boats actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six months later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after paying to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we made offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a wonder that anybody actually buys boats at all. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. "DSK" wrote in message ... Skip Gundlach wrote: ..... despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your time. I threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to deal with when hunting for our last boat. And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted, only to fall through, before we landed 'the one.' Yes, we're going to buy a boat... I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a boat." A lot of brokers could not tell the difference. We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really liked & would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the boats actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six months later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after paying to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we made offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a wonder that anybody actually buys boats at all. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. "DSK" wrote in message ... Skip Gundlach wrote: ..... despite all the hoo-ha of the advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the rest of it was similar or better. Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall end and 6-0 at the short end. Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your time. I threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to deal with when hunting for our last boat. And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted... Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted, only to fall through, before we landed 'the one.' Yes, we're going to buy a boat... I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a boat." A lot of brokers could not tell the difference. We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really liked & would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the boats actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six months later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after paying to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we made offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a wonder that anybody actually buys boats at all. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Kathy Mumma wrote:
We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced. 'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker, particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for that boat. Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Kathy Mumma wrote:
We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced. 'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker, particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for that boat. Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:54:03 +0000, WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 03:14:14 GMT, "Skip Gundlach" .due.to.spam wrote: Howdy... I'm in the next stage of our boat search, with very encouraging results. We've found several boats which work for us; the next step is to continue with the trip(s) to the rest of the close to 200 candidates identified in this last research. I'll expand on that in a separate post. Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? Another comment: Are you SURE you need a broker? Seems to me the first broker you mentioned did some broker-like things, like trying to narrow your search, give you advice, etc. You rejected it (which is fair enough). In fact, you seem to be someone who doesn't like to be TOLD stuff - you want to form your own conclusions. So I'd say you DON'T need a broker to hold your hand while you notate, measure, video, etc. all the boats you're looking at. Seems like you only need a broker to negotiate price once you've settled on a boat, and you're probably wasting THEIR time asking them for advice then not taking it. Why not go to the broker with this in mind? Tell him you'd like to look at these boats by yourself and form your own conclusions, and let him know what the result is. I think you'd be thanked. As someone else said, you want to buy a boat, not be sold one. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:54:03 +0000, WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 03:14:14 GMT, "Skip Gundlach" .due.to.spam wrote: Howdy... I'm in the next stage of our boat search, with very encouraging results. We've found several boats which work for us; the next step is to continue with the trip(s) to the rest of the close to 200 candidates identified in this last research. I'll expand on that in a separate post. Your stories are certainly interesting, but are you *sure* you are going to buy a boat? Another comment: Are you SURE you need a broker? Seems to me the first broker you mentioned did some broker-like things, like trying to narrow your search, give you advice, etc. You rejected it (which is fair enough). In fact, you seem to be someone who doesn't like to be TOLD stuff - you want to form your own conclusions. So I'd say you DON'T need a broker to hold your hand while you notate, measure, video, etc. all the boats you're looking at. Seems like you only need a broker to negotiate price once you've settled on a boat, and you're probably wasting THEIR time asking them for advice then not taking it. Why not go to the broker with this in mind? Tell him you'd like to look at these boats by yourself and form your own conclusions, and let him know what the result is. I think you'd be thanked. As someone else said, you want to buy a boat, not be sold one. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Thanks for reply. Seems to make a lot of sense, especially when we are just
learning. We are hoping to take advantage on winter prices for boat AND gear anyway. Last years models in working condition would be much better than equipment included which is DOA. Kathy M. "Jere Lull" wrote in message ... Kathy Mumma wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced. 'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker, particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for that boat. Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Thanks for reply. Seems to make a lot of sense, especially when we are just
learning. We are hoping to take advantage on winter prices for boat AND gear anyway. Last years models in working condition would be much better than equipment included which is DOA. Kathy M. "Jere Lull" wrote in message ... Kathy Mumma wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. Any input welcome! Thanks, Kathy M. Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced. 'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker, particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for that boat. Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
x-no-archive:yes
"Kathy Mumma" wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful, and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper to buy one that way. You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats. YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers. less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed with a broker. I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio, an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it. Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the market.) We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought that boat. One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale. grandma Rosalie |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
x-no-archive:yes
"Kathy Mumma" wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful, and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper to buy one that way. You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats. YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers. less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed with a broker. I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio, an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it. Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the market.) We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought that boat. One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale. grandma Rosalie |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Thanks for all the input.
Am gleaning a LOT of great information from the group. Kathy M. "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... x-no-archive:yes "Kathy Mumma" wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful, and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper to buy one that way. You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats. YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers. less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed with a broker. I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio, an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it. Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the market.) We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought that boat. One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale. grandma Rosalie |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Thanks for all the input.
Am gleaning a LOT of great information from the group. Kathy M. "Rosalie B." wrote in message ... x-no-archive:yes "Kathy Mumma" wrote: We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post brings up a question I have, if you don't mind. Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful, and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper to buy one that way. You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats. YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers. less equipment. Some seem stripped actually. The privately owned boats better equipped? I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed with a broker. I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to larger boats and move equipment. This will be first boat so this will be a large factor. We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio, an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it. Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the market.) We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought that boat. One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale. grandma Rosalie |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Well, I'm back from the latest foray. I'll talk about that in a separate
post. Another comment: Are you SURE you need a broker? Seems to me the first broker you mentioned did some broker-like things, like trying to narrow your search, give you advice, etc. You rejected it (which is fair enough). In fact, you seem to be someone who doesn't like to be TOLD stuff - you want to form your own conclusions. So I'd say you DON'T need a broker to hold your hand while you notate, measure, video, etc. all the boats you're looking at. That's entirely true - in fact, I'm happy to have them go off somewhere and attend to other business, while I'm busy on the boat, which some did, this last trip. What I *do* need a broker to do is set up the viewings, and since they know the area, get me to and from each of them in the least amount of time. So, I don't need them on the boat with me - I just need them to make me get on as many as possible, in as short as possible a time. Seems like you only need a broker to negotiate price once you've settled on a boat, and you're probably wasting THEIR time asking them for advice then not taking it. Why not go to the broker with this in mind? Tell him you'd like to look at these boats by yourself and form your own conclusions, and let him know what the result is. I think you'd be thanked. As someone else said, you want to buy a boat, not be sold one. I've not really had a problem, once I've gotten under way, other than with the specific broker mentioned. Plus the ones who are actually listening (and doing some feedback/questioning, which he didn't do) go beyond the initial setups and suggest others which might work. If we've already isolated the type, I'll know about it and we can move on. If not, as happened in the last trip, serendipity, or providence, depending on your position, may have it that the broker, in taking me around a yard with a bunch of boats immediately available and to hand, puts me on the boat which works for us, when it hadn't been on the list. Without the broker, I'd have never been on that boat, and still looking, probably, though as the separate post will point out, there are now several choices, most of which have more than one from which to choose... So, I'm glad I've used brokers. There's no way I could have seen the several hundred examples, including going aboard well over 100 - close to 200 - individual boats, without brokers doing most of the shuttling, in the total of only about 40 days on the road. Of course, if you already know what boat you want, and where to fiind it, you don't need a broker, other than if the boat's listed with a broker... L8R Skip (and Lydia, by proxy) -- "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
"Chesapeake Bay Boat Buying" followup/Boat search update
Well, I'm back from the latest foray. I'll talk about that in a separate
post. Another comment: Are you SURE you need a broker? Seems to me the first broker you mentioned did some broker-like things, like trying to narrow your search, give you advice, etc. You rejected it (which is fair enough). In fact, you seem to be someone who doesn't like to be TOLD stuff - you want to form your own conclusions. So I'd say you DON'T need a broker to hold your hand while you notate, measure, video, etc. all the boats you're looking at. That's entirely true - in fact, I'm happy to have them go off somewhere and attend to other business, while I'm busy on the boat, which some did, this last trip. What I *do* need a broker to do is set up the viewings, and since they know the area, get me to and from each of them in the least amount of time. So, I don't need them on the boat with me - I just need them to make me get on as many as possible, in as short as possible a time. Seems like you only need a broker to negotiate price once you've settled on a boat, and you're probably wasting THEIR time asking them for advice then not taking it. Why not go to the broker with this in mind? Tell him you'd like to look at these boats by yourself and form your own conclusions, and let him know what the result is. I think you'd be thanked. As someone else said, you want to buy a boat, not be sold one. I've not really had a problem, once I've gotten under way, other than with the specific broker mentioned. Plus the ones who are actually listening (and doing some feedback/questioning, which he didn't do) go beyond the initial setups and suggest others which might work. If we've already isolated the type, I'll know about it and we can move on. If not, as happened in the last trip, serendipity, or providence, depending on your position, may have it that the broker, in taking me around a yard with a bunch of boats immediately available and to hand, puts me on the boat which works for us, when it hadn't been on the list. Without the broker, I'd have never been on that boat, and still looking, probably, though as the separate post will point out, there are now several choices, most of which have more than one from which to choose... So, I'm glad I've used brokers. There's no way I could have seen the several hundred examples, including going aboard well over 100 - close to 200 - individual boats, without brokers doing most of the shuttling, in the total of only about 40 days on the road. Of course, if you already know what boat you want, and where to fiind it, you don't need a broker, other than if the boat's listed with a broker... L8R Skip (and Lydia, by proxy) -- "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
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