Well, the ER refit/rehab is under way, with stringer replacement soon
to
come. However, the leaking POS Raritan water heater is soon to find
its way
to the junkyard. It looks similar to another Raritan water heater I
see in
the yard, which is to say rust stained and streaked from wherever it
is that
the water came/comes out. In my case, it's a pinhole, somewhere, as
it
manifests itself in not only water around the base, but steam out the
top.
The six (inlet and outlet for feed and heat exchange, relief valve
and
heater element) designed holes in the unit are dry...

In trying to assess the durability of (electric/heat exchange - see
bottom
for discussion of "instant") water heaters, I see several iterations
of
mode.

First is the Raritan, which is a glass-lined galvanized unit. Just
like at
home, but you aren't usually going to have salt air around your home
unit,
nor bouncing around as the earthquakes hit. I don't think I want to
go that
route again, whether or not it's the most expensive around.

Second is other (also) expensive units, which have, usually, stainless
steel
innards, and, occasionally, stainless steel outards. As there's no
grade of
stainless I've seen which won't rust, I don't know that I have any
enthusiasm for that (SS shell) part, but the SS interior is
interesting on
the basis of its inability to make AlCl crystals to clog up my water
system,
and the presumption of a reasonably robust construction as compared
to
Aluminum; nearly all the non-heater (water, fuel, holding) tank
replacement
discussions I see wind up going to stainless (or to rotomolded, but
that's
not practical for water heaters) if they don't want to suffer a leak
in the
future. That suggests SS is a good way to go.

However, the third iteration is WH tanks with aluminum innards. Those
are
universally inexpensive by comparison to the others (but outrageous
by
comparison to HD units, not surprisingly). At least one manufacturer
proclaims that theirs are more robust (and/or the reason to buy
theirs) than
SS units, as SS units have a predilection to leak at (they say) at
less-than-sufficient welds (whereas theirs are [stated to be] superior
[in
part, due to the metal?] welds). Assuming those assertions to be
true, I
still have an aversion to aluminum, as AlCl crystals, and other
corrosion
issues, are the bane of aluminum tanks everywhere. However, not-
leaking
trumps AlCl issues, because it's relatively trivial to insert a
carbon
filter before the tank to filter only the supply to the hot water (our
water
and fuel tanks are fiberglass) of chlorine, should any remain after
watering
wherever it is we take on supplies and it makes its way to the water
heater.

So, I'm looking for input on (long-term; I'd prefer not to have to do
this
again very soon) experience with both SS and Aluminum interiors on hot
water
heaters. I've had a recommendation for Super-Stor SS interior units,
but
the only vendor I've found for them is Defender (which in itself is
good,
but they're as far away from me as possible and still be in the
continental
US, which means long and expensive shipping).

I've also had a recommendation for the wall-mounted units which are
essentially on-demand water heaters. They come in propane and
electrical
models. I have a problem with both types, and individual problems
with
each.

The problem with both types is that there's no storage. That means
that
water coming in has to be heated before it goes out; we shower with
some
fairly extensive time between hot water uses (wet, soap, shave,
anything
else, then rinse), which means it has to start over. One could put a
unit
at each location to solve that, of course, but in our case, that's
three,
and mucho dinero.

The bigger problem(s) is that the draw electrically is more than our
inverter is capable of handling (we're replacing the one which was
lost to
salt water intrusion in our wreck; it's 1500W), so we can't use one of
those
(the ones I've seen start at ~20A/120VAC and go up from there).

The propane ones make me nervous, in addition to the complexities of
usage.
Short of placing it in the propane locker (I don't know how big they
are,
but I suppose one might fit by displacing one of the two 10# bottles
in
ours), I have a real problem in having "always live" propane in the
boat
living space. There's also a supply issue (we'd have to run a new
line to
wherever it was), so those are non-starters. OTOH, if there are users
of
these units reading, I'd enjoy hearing about how you overcame those
objections.

So, please, reports of (positive or negative - a reason to avoid is
as
valuable as a recommendation) experience? And for those who've bought
one,
is there another vendor besides Defender for Super-Stor?

Thanks, as always.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.

I've always had good luck with Raritan water heaters. You do know
there is a magnesium sacrificial anode in there, right? My experience
is that it needs to be changed about every 3 years. You could probably
go 4, but no longer.

On Apr 25, 5:39 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:

Well, the ER refit/rehab is under way, with stringer replacement soon
to
come. However, the leaking POS Raritan water heater is soon to find
its way
to the junkyard.

Skip

Hello Skip: I am wondering if your sailing goals/style have changed,
modified, or if youve altered course a bit since the gounding?
I would suscpect they have. That is, now that you got youre feet wet
do you still have the same dream?
And if so, how will that effect eqipment choices durring refit?

Lets try this...... the Pig is back in the water. How many days a year
will you actually be a vessel underway?
By Lydia's own words she does not like voyages. Its the time at the
dock she enjoys.
How many days a year will you be tied at the dock intertaing friends
and family?
I would go with electic shore power water heater from what I have
gleened from your posts over the alast few years. Then for the times
you are at sea just statr on you main engine to send hot engine
coolant to the water heater coils. Im saying that cause you mention
inverters and not generator. If a generator on board....... just start
the generator to make the 120 volt that supplies the water heater.

For me, I ripped out that stainless steel box, the seeminly miles of
1/2 hose and crappy hose clamps, and of course the pump. I was then
able to use that circuit for another load. Why on earth would I tear
out a preasure hot water system????
I dont want to turn my cruising into one DIY fixit show. But more
importantly, where I'm going I wont need hot
water.................................. that simple, nor the
additional Ah use for the pump, which reduces my house bank size,
which reduces my alternator-solar pannel size. Life gets easier,
simpler, cheeper; therefore, more fun time and less time standing
upside down with my head in a bilge with salty sweat buring my my
eyes.

Just a though Skip...............,

I hate working on boats Bob

On Apr 25, 9:39 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:
I've had a recommendation for Super-Stor SS interior units,
but
the only vendor I've found for them is Defender (which in itself is
good,
but they're as far away from me as possible and still be in the
continental
US, which means long and expensive shipping).


is there another vendor besides Defender for Super-Stor?

Thanks, as always.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries atwww.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us athttp://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglogand/orhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.

Hi Skip, Did you look at the site for Super-Stor?

http://www.htproducts.com/products/marine/index.html

Sorry, I haven't been paying attention, you are in Florida, right?

Here's a list of Sales Reps for Florida:

http://www.htproducts.com/cgi-bin/replist.pl

Here's the manufacturer's contact information:

HEAT TRANSFER PRODUCTS, INC .
120 Braley Road · P.O. Box 429 · East Freetown · MA 02717
(508) 763-8071 · 1-800-323-9651 (Outside MA)
Fax (508) 763-3769

Hope this helps.

"Ken Heaton, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia" wrote in
message oups.com...
On Apr 25, 9:39 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:
I've had a recommendation for Super-Stor SS interior units,
but
the only vendor I've found for them is Defender (which in itself is
good,
but they're as far away from me as possible and still be in the
continental
US, which means long and expensive shipping).


is there another vendor besides Defender for Super-Stor?

Thanks, as always.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries atwww.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us
athttp://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglogand/orhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.

Hi Skip, Did you look at the site for Super-Stor?

http://www.htproducts.com/products/marine/index.html

Sorry, I haven't been paying attention, you are in Florida, right?

Here's a list of Sales Reps for Florida:

http://www.htproducts.com/cgi-bin/replist.pl

Here's the manufacturer's contact information:

HEAT TRANSFER PRODUCTS, INC .
120 Braley Road · P.O. Box 429 · East Freetown · MA 02717
(508) 763-8071 · 1-800-323-9651 (Outside MA)
Fax (508) 763-3769

Hope this helps.

Oops, sorry, just noticed my posted link for the Florida Reps doesn't work.
Use the link above it to get to the site and click on "How to Buy" for the
Rep list.
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton at eastlink dot ca

That was a long question Skip!

Anyway, faced with same problem (rusty leaking Raritan) I switched to an all
stainless water heater by Quick. No problems with installation or use so far
and price was less than a Raritan , I think....

My Raritan had been installed before the deck went on, so had to be cut up
in place in order to get it out! The Quick unit fitted through the cockpit
locker.

These are made in a variety of sizes and shapes, are well made and look
good!

In the USA, this is the contact info:

Quick USA LLC
Street: 509, McCormick Drive
City: 21061 Glen Burnie, Maryland
Region/Country: U.S.A
Telephone: +1.410.768.5991
Fax: +1.410.768.5995
Mail-to:
http:// www.quickusa.com
First contact: Daniele Rizzo


In Canada:

Vredband Imports Inc.
Street: 1855 A. Industrial Blvd
City: LAVAL - Quebec
Region/Country: CANADA
Telephone: +1 450 6683111
Fax: +1 450 6686270
Mail-to:
http:// www.vredband.com
First contact: Stephan Bisson

I have installed the PrecisionTemp Showermate on two boats and it is
exceptional in design and efficiency - it is also very pricey.
Propane on demand and externally power vented. No AC electricity and
no engine coolant connections. I live aboard so it makes sense - and
I like the idea of having a shower or hot water when at anchor or
sailing without cranking up the engine.

www.precisiontemp.com

On PEREGRINA it replaced a leaking hot water tank that had been
disconnected from the engine before I bought her. A hot water tank
higher than the engine seems to cause problems with coolant flow - at
least it did on this boat.

TIM

On Apr 25, 8:39 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:
Well, the ER refit/rehab is under way, with stringer replacement soon
to
come. However, the leaking POS Raritan water heater is soon to find
its way
to the junkyard. It looks similar to another Raritan water heater I
see in
the yard, which is to say rust stained and streaked from wherever it
is that
the water came/comes out. In my case, it's a pinhole, somewhere, as
it
manifests itself in not only water around the base, but steam out the
top.
The six (inlet and outlet for feed and heat exchange, relief valve
and
heater element) designed holes in the unit are dry...

In trying to assess the durability of (electric/heat exchange - see
bottom
for discussion of "instant") water heaters, I see several iterations
of
mode.

First is the Raritan, which is a glass-lined galvanized unit. Just
like at
home, but you aren't usually going to have salt air around your home
unit,
nor bouncing around as the earthquakes hit. I don't think I want to
go that
route again, whether or not it's the most expensive around.

Second is other (also) expensive units, which have, usually, stainless
steel
innards, and, occasionally, stainless steel outards. As there's no
grade of
stainless I've seen which won't rust, I don't know that I have any
enthusiasm for that (SS shell) part, but the SS interior is
interesting on
the basis of its inability to make AlCl crystals to clog up my water
system,
and the presumption of a reasonably robust construction as compared
to
Aluminum; nearly all the non-heater (water, fuel, holding) tank
replacement
discussions I see wind up going to stainless (or to rotomolded, but
that's
not practical for water heaters) if they don't want to suffer a leak
in the
future. That suggests SS is a good way to go.

However, the third iteration is WH tanks with aluminum innards. Those
are
universally inexpensive by comparison to the others (but outrageous
by
comparison to HD units, not surprisingly). At least one manufacturer
proclaims that theirs are more robust (and/or the reason to buy
theirs) than
SS units, as SS units have a predilection to leak at (they say) at
less-than-sufficient welds (whereas theirs are [stated to be] superior
[in
part, due to the metal?] welds). Assuming those assertions to be
true, I
still have an aversion to aluminum, as AlCl crystals, and other
corrosion
issues, are the bane of aluminum tanks everywhere. However, not-
leaking
trumps AlCl issues, because it's relatively trivial to insert a
carbon
filter before the tank to filter only the supply to the hot water (our
water
and fuel tanks are fiberglass) of chlorine, should any remain after
watering
wherever it is we take on supplies and it makes its way to the water
heater.

So, I'm looking for input on (long-term; I'd prefer not to have to do
this
again very soon) experience with both SS and Aluminum interiors on hot
water
heaters. I've had a recommendation for Super-Stor SS interior units,
but
the only vendor I've found for them is Defender (which in itself is
good,
but they're as far away from me as possible and still be in the
continental
US, which means long and expensive shipping).

I've also had a recommendation for the wall-mounted units which are
essentially on-demand water heaters. They come in propane and
electrical
models. I have a problem with both types, and individual problems
with
each.

The problem with both types is that there's no storage. That means
that
water coming in has to be heated before it goes out; we shower with
some
fairly extensive time between hot water uses (wet, soap, shave,
anything
else, then rinse), which means it has to start over. One could put a
unit
at each location to solve that, of course, but in our case, that's
three,
and mucho dinero.

The bigger problem(s) is that the draw electrically is more than our
inverter is capable of handling (we're replacing the one which was
lost to
salt water intrusion in our wreck; it's 1500W), so we can't use one of
those
(the ones I've seen start at ~20A/120VAC and go up from there).

The propane ones make me nervous, in addition to the complexities of
usage.
Short of placing it in the propane locker (I don't know how big they
are,
but I suppose one might fit by displacing one of the two 10# bottles
in
ours), I have a real problem in having "always live" propane in the
boat
living space. There's also a supply issue (we'd have to run a new
line to
wherever it was), so those are non-starters. OTOH, if there are users
of
these units reading, I'd enjoy hearing about how you overcame those
objections.

So, please, reports of (positive or negative - a reason to avoid is
as
valuable as a recommendation) experience? And for those who've bought
one,
is there another vendor besides Defender for Super-Stor?

Thanks, as always.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries atwww.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us athttp://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglogand/orhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.

I had a problem with my 40 gallon unit so I decided to replace it...
unfortunately it was bigger than the hole where it was (Boat built
around it) so I had to cut it up in pieces and remove it.

I tried some instant hot water heaters and the ones that I could run
with my gen (with the 2 ACs going) did not work as well as I had hoped
so I went with a 9 gallon hot water heater (All Stainless) and feed it
through an instant hot water heater. Water going into the heater is
pretty darn but it is mixed so the 9 gallons lasts longer than the 40.
When I am alone, I turn off the "booster" because 9 Gal is more than
enough and in the summer the booster stays off because the ambient temp
of the water is warm enough with only a little hot water. BTW.. for
those of you who like engine heat, the unit can connect to your engine
or generator. I am not a fan of that for 500 HP Diesels because I am
afraid of a failure and don't want to dump my coolant and have a meltdown.


Skip Gundlach wrote:
Well, the ER refit/rehab is under way, with stringer replacement soon
to
come. However, the leaking POS Raritan water heater is soon to find
its way
to the junkyard. It looks similar to another Raritan water heater I
see in
the yard, which is to say rust stained and streaked from wherever it
is that
the water came/comes out. In my case, it's a pinhole, somewhere, as
it
manifests itself in not only water around the base, but steam out the
top.
The six (inlet and outlet for feed and heat exchange, relief valve
and
heater element) designed holes in the unit are dry...

In trying to assess the durability of (electric/heat exchange - see
bottom
for discussion of "instant") water heaters, I see several iterations
of
mode.

First is the Raritan, which is a glass-lined galvanized unit. Just
like at
home, but you aren't usually going to have salt air around your home
unit,
nor bouncing around as the earthquakes hit. I don't think I want to
go that
route again, whether or not it's the most expensive around.

Second is other (also) expensive units, which have, usually, stainless
steel
innards, and, occasionally, stainless steel outards. As there's no
grade of
stainless I've seen which won't rust, I don't know that I have any
enthusiasm for that (SS shell) part, but the SS interior is
interesting on
the basis of its inability to make AlCl crystals to clog up my water
system,
and the presumption of a reasonably robust construction as compared
to
Aluminum; nearly all the non-heater (water, fuel, holding) tank
replacement
discussions I see wind up going to stainless (or to rotomolded, but
that's
not practical for water heaters) if they don't want to suffer a leak
in the
future. That suggests SS is a good way to go.

However, the third iteration is WH tanks with aluminum innards. Those
are
universally inexpensive by comparison to the others (but outrageous
by
comparison to HD units, not surprisingly). At least one manufacturer
proclaims that theirs are more robust (and/or the reason to buy
theirs) than
SS units, as SS units have a predilection to leak at (they say) at
less-than-sufficient welds (whereas theirs are [stated to be] superior
[in
part, due to the metal?] welds). Assuming those assertions to be
true, I
still have an aversion to aluminum, as AlCl crystals, and other
corrosion
issues, are the bane of aluminum tanks everywhere. However, not-
leaking
trumps AlCl issues, because it's relatively trivial to insert a
carbon
filter before the tank to filter only the supply to the hot water (our
water
and fuel tanks are fiberglass) of chlorine, should any remain after
watering
wherever it is we take on supplies and it makes its way to the water
heater.

So, I'm looking for input on (long-term; I'd prefer not to have to do
this
again very soon) experience with both SS and Aluminum interiors on hot
water
heaters. I've had a recommendation for Super-Stor SS interior units,
but
the only vendor I've found for them is Defender (which in itself is
good,
but they're as far away from me as possible and still be in the
continental
US, which means long and expensive shipping).

I've also had a recommendation for the wall-mounted units which are
essentially on-demand water heaters. They come in propane and
electrical
models. I have a problem with both types, and individual problems
with
each.

The problem with both types is that there's no storage. That means
that
water coming in has to be heated before it goes out; we shower with
some
fairly extensive time between hot water uses (wet, soap, shave,
anything
else, then rinse), which means it has to start over. One could put a
unit
at each location to solve that, of course, but in our case, that's
three,
and mucho dinero.

The bigger problem(s) is that the draw electrically is more than our
inverter is capable of handling (we're replacing the one which was
lost to
salt water intrusion in our wreck; it's 1500W), so we can't use one of
those
(the ones I've seen start at ~20A/120VAC and go up from there).

The propane ones make me nervous, in addition to the complexities of
usage.
Short of placing it in the propane locker (I don't know how big they
are,
but I suppose one might fit by displacing one of the two 10# bottles
in
ours), I have a real problem in having "always live" propane in the
boat
living space. There's also a supply issue (we'd have to run a new
line to
wherever it was), so those are non-starters. OTOH, if there are users
of
these units reading, I'd enjoy hearing about how you overcame those
objections.

So, please, reports of (positive or negative - a reason to avoid is
as
valuable as a recommendation) experience? And for those who've bought
one,
is there another vendor besides Defender for Super-Stor?

Thanks, as always.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.