Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Anybody out there using a combination rope/chain rode with a horizontal
windlass? Is it manual or electric ?
I'm curious how much of a hastle it is shifting the rode from rope drum to
gypsy. Do you retrieve a bit of chain on the rope drum to get enough tail
and/or use a chain stopper ?

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Many horizontal windlasses have combination rope/chain gypsies. I use
an S&L Horizon 1500 with a combination gypsy. I attach my rope to my
chain with a back splice. Because this makes the rode thicker it
tends to skip at the splice and I sometimes bend a whip onto the chain
with a rolling hitch to take the load off when going over the splice.
However, in most conditions just pushing down a bit on the splice as
it rolls over the gypsy is enough. Some folks recommend using a
splice that removes one part of the rope to keep the diameter of the
splice small. Even done perfectly this makes the splice 33% weaker
and more prone to chafe than the simple back splice so I strongly
advise against it.

-- Tom.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

* Garland Gray II wrote, On 4/23/2007 9:09 PM:
Anybody out there using a combination rope/chain rode with a horizontal
windlass? Is it manual or electric ?
I'm curious how much of a hastle it is shifting the rode from rope drum to
gypsy. Do you retrieve a bit of chain on the rope drum to get enough tail
and/or use a chain stopper ?


I used to have the old basic Simpson Lawrence manual windlass and
hated it. The real problem was that each stroke hauled about a foot
of chain, so it was easier to hand-over-hand both the rope and the
chain as far as I could before putting it on the gypsy. The only time
I used the drum was when the rode was fouled - actually under someone
else's rode.

My current boat has an electric vertical windlass, without the drum.
Although the drum would have been only another few hundred, I haven't
missed it. The rope/chain gypsy works almost perfectly - perhaps once
a year there's a minor problem, usually just a twist in the chain.
The rope splice is not a problem, I used the variation of the eye
splice the S/L (now Lewmar) recommended.

The amount of chain I use in the rode is influenced by the depth of
water I anchor in. I like to be able hook the gypsy with the chain
before lifting the anchor. For me, that means 50 feet of chain, which
is good for almost any location I'm in, and is a reasonable amount to
aid the anchor in setting.

And I almost always power up to the anchor with the engine, not with
the windlass. When I do use the windlass, I try to do short bursts to
straighten the chain off the bottom, and then the weight of the chain
pulls the boat forward. Using the windlass to pull the boat against
the wind or current will, I believe, shorten its life.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Jeff wrote:

* Garland Gray II wrote, On 4/23/2007 9:09 PM:
Anybody out there using a combination rope/chain rode with a horizontal
windlass? Is it manual or electric ?
I'm curious how much of a hastle it is shifting the rode from rope drum to
gypsy. Do you retrieve a bit of chain on the rope drum to get enough tail
and/or use a chain stopper ?

We have an all chain rode so I can't answer the question about the
combination rode, but we have the old S-L manual windlass and it works
just fine for us. We got it second hand at Bacons

After he wakes up, Bob goes up on deck and pulls the slack out of the
rode, and then goes and shaves and then comes up and pulls out some
more slack, and then cooks his bacon and gets some more slack out and
then eats his bacon, and by that time I'm up too, and we start the
engine and motor up to the anchor and pull it the rest of the way. He
washes off the chain as he pulls it, and when it is clear of the
bottom, I motor off while he finishes stowing the anchor.

I used to have the old basic Simpson Lawrence manual windlass and
hated it. The real problem was that each stroke hauled about a foot
of chain, so it was easier to hand-over-hand both the rope and the
chain as far as I could before putting it on the gypsy. The only time
I used the drum was when the rode was fouled - actually under someone
else's rode.

My current boat has an electric vertical windlass, without the drum.
Although the drum would have been only another few hundred, I haven't
missed it. The rope/chain gypsy works almost perfectly - perhaps once
a year there's a minor problem, usually just a twist in the chain.
The rope splice is not a problem, I used the variation of the eye
splice the S/L (now Lewmar) recommended.

The amount of chain I use in the rode is influenced by the depth of
water I anchor in. I like to be able hook the gypsy with the chain
before lifting the anchor. For me, that means 50 feet of chain, which
is good for almost any location I'm in, and is a reasonable amount to
aid the anchor in setting.

And I almost always power up to the anchor with the engine, not with
the windlass. When I do use the windlass, I try to do short bursts to
straighten the chain off the bottom, and then the weight of the chain
pulls the boat forward. Using the windlass to pull the boat against
the wind or current will, I believe, shorten its life.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 11:00 AM:
Jeff wrote:
....
We have an all chain rode so I can't answer the question about the
combination rode, but we have the old S-L manual windlass and it works
just fine for us. We got it second hand at Bacons

After he wakes up, Bob goes up on deck and pulls the slack out of the
rode, and then goes and shaves and then comes up and pulls out some
more slack, and then cooks his bacon and gets some more slack out and
then eats his bacon, and by that time I'm up too, and we start the
engine and motor up to the anchor and pull it the rest of the way. He
washes off the chain as he pulls it, and when it is clear of the
bottom, I motor off while he finishes stowing the anchor.



I think you just proved my point about how tedious the S/L manual
windlass can be!

Hi Garland. I have a manual windlass that has both rope and chain gypsies. My chain gypsy has a slot that holds the line and/or rope (whichever is needed.) No need to switch anything.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

I have a vertical maxwell with drum and usually pull the boat forward
on the catenary of the chain. As I see the splice approach, I use the
slack in the catenary to get a foot or so of chain placed around the
gypsy, then often need to twist the end of the rode and splice into
the hawse pipe, then power up the chain. In strong conditions I use
the engine to create the slack I need to get over the splice.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Jeff wrote:

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 11:00 AM:
Jeff wrote:
...
We have an all chain rode so I can't answer the question about the
combination rode, but we have the old S-L manual windlass and it works
just fine for us. We got it second hand at Bacons

After he wakes up, Bob goes up on deck and pulls the slack out of the
rode, and then goes and shaves and then comes up and pulls out some
more slack, and then cooks his bacon and gets some more slack out and
then eats his bacon, and by that time I'm up too, and we start the
engine and motor up to the anchor and pull it the rest of the way. He
washes off the chain as he pulls it, and when it is clear of the
bottom, I motor off while he finishes stowing the anchor.



I think you just proved my point about how tedious the S/L manual
windlass can be!

You may think of it as tedious. We think of it as relaxing. We are
not in a hurry. We don't have to be anywhere. If the weather is bad,
we can just stay there.

The advantages to a manual windlass are -- you don't have to have a
battery set up to run it with either long cables to the engine and
main battery setup, or long cables from the main battery bank to the
bow.

There's less chance of trying to use the windlass motor to pull the
anchor up and burning it out.

We've been on a boat like ours with an electric windlass and thought
it was a little dangerous.

We do NEED a windlass with all chain and a fairly big anchor.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

In article ,
Gogarty

Now, we have a Lewmar vertical "windlass" that contains a rope/chain gypsy.
On top there is a drum which the literature calls a capstan. The rope/chain
splice move quite smoothly through the gypsy. Nothing needs to be
transferred to the capstan drum. We have had very little use for thr capstan
drum, though I suppose with suitable turning blocks it could be used to
hoist a bosun's chair..

I use the capstan if I'm hauling up a second anchor at the same time.

Molesworth

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 8:43 PM:
Jeff wrote:

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 11:00 AM:
Jeff wrote:
...
We have an all chain rode so I can't answer the question about the
combination rode, but we have the old S-L manual windlass and it works
just fine for us. We got it second hand at Bacons

After he wakes up, Bob goes up on deck and pulls the slack out of the
rode, and then goes and shaves and then comes up and pulls out some
more slack, and then cooks his bacon and gets some more slack out and
then eats his bacon, and by that time I'm up too, and we start the
engine and motor up to the anchor and pull it the rest of the way. He
washes off the chain as he pulls it, and when it is clear of the
bottom, I motor off while he finishes stowing the anchor.


I think you just proved my point about how tedious the S/L manual
windlass can be!

You may think of it as tedious. We think of it as relaxing. We are
not in a hurry. We don't have to be anywhere. If the weather is bad,
we can just stay there.

When I had an all chain/manual windlass setup I was frustrated when I
found I wasn't happy with the location. Perhaps the conditions
changed, or a newcomer arrived, or perhaps I just missed or
miscalculated my intended spot. The hassles of raising the anchor
meant that I generally didn't bother and thus ended up being unhappy
about the spot. Now, with lighter gear plus the electric windlass, I
reset the anchor about a third of the time, and I'm always happy.


The advantages to a manual windlass are -- you don't have to have a
battery set up to run it with either long cables to the engine and
main battery setup, or long cables from the main battery bank to the
bow.

Well yes, an electric windlass means electricity. I always thought
the extra battery was a bit silly, but running the wire is no big deal.

But you have a point that the electric windlass is one more
complication to worry about. Of course, most have manual backup.



There's less chance of trying to use the windlass motor to pull the
anchor up and burning it out.

This is a weird reason. I would think that after cooking four or five
you might figure it out.


We've been on a boat like ours with an electric windlass and thought
it was a little dangerous.

I admit I came close to having a finger sucked up a gypsy once. That
was a harsh lesson that fortunately only cost a bandaid! But I also
through my back out on a manual once, so I'd guess they're about even.

We do NEED a windlass with all chain and a fairly big anchor.

There's certainly no doubt about that. I've come to the conclusion
that I can anchor just as reliably with lighter gear - a mixed
rope/chain rode plus lighter Delta (or maybe Spade) rather than a
heavy CQR or Bruce. But that's a different discussion.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 8:43 PM:
Jeff wrote:

* Rosalie B. wrote, On 4/24/2007 11:00 AM:
Jeff wrote:
...
We have an all chain rode so I can't answer the question about the
combination rode, but we have the old S-L manual windlass and it works
just fine for us. We got it second hand at Bacons

After he wakes up, Bob goes up on deck and pulls the slack out of the
rode, and then goes and shaves and then comes up and pulls out some
more slack, and then cooks his bacon and gets some more slack out and
then eats his bacon, and by that time I'm up too, and we start the
engine and motor up to the anchor and pull it the rest of the way. He
washes off the chain as he pulls it, and when it is clear of the
bottom, I motor off while he finishes stowing the anchor.


I think you just proved my point about how tedious the S/L manual
windlass can be!

You may think of it as tedious. We think of it as relaxing. We are
not in a hurry. We don't have to be anywhere. If the weather is bad,
we can just stay there.

When I had an all chain/manual windlass setup I was frustrated when I
found I wasn't happy with the location. Perhaps the conditions
changed, or a newcomer arrived, or perhaps I just missed or
miscalculated my intended spot. The hassles of raising the anchor
meant that I generally didn't bother and thus ended up being unhappy
about the spot. Now, with lighter gear plus the electric windlass, I
reset the anchor about a third of the time, and I'm always happy.

This is a valid point, but happens very seldom to us. First, if you
are there first, and someone else anchors there and there is a
problem, it is up to them to move, and not you. It happened to us
once in St. Augustine where a little light boat on a rope rode swung
more widely and quickly than we did, and we had to move.

Anchoring in Mile Hammock Bay, we kept drifting back out of the
dredged area, and then someone came in and anchored over our anchor.
But they left very early, and we were only there for overnight, so no
biggie.

Bob is pretty anal about where he anchors, and possibly we don't
anchor as much as you do.

The advantages to a manual windlass are -- you don't have to have a
battery set up to run it with either long cables to the engine and
main battery setup, or long cables from the main battery bank to the
bow.

Well yes, an electric windlass means electricity. I always thought
the extra battery was a bit silly, but running the wire is no big deal.

Bob just didn't want to do it. He felt that a long cable would have
unacceptably high losses over the run of the cable.

You don't need an extra battery and you certainly don't need to put one way
up in the bow. Batteries wear out. Just run the cable to where the
batteries are and install a good 100 amp (or greater) circuit breaker next
to the batteries. The cable will never go bad. The batteries will in due
course.

We have two fairly large battery banks instead of a bank and a starter
battery.

On another point, not all electric windlasses have manual override. On our
Lewmar, you can launch the anchor if the battery is dead or the motor
burned out but you can't get it back except by man-handling it. Our motor
did die after five years. Local automotive elctrical shop rebuilt it.

But you have a point that the electric windlass is one more
complication to worry about. Of course, most have manual backup.

There's less chance of trying to use the windlass motor to pull the
anchor up and burning it out.

This is a weird reason. I would think that after cooking four or five
you might figure it out.

Never have had one, so there was nothing for me to figure out - it
just seems like all the anchoring directions caution about this so it
must be a problem for someone.

We've been on a boat like ours with an electric windlass and thought
it was a little dangerous.

I admit I came close to having a finger sucked up a gypsy once. That
was a harsh lesson that fortunately only cost a bandaid! But I also
through my back out on a manual once, so I'd guess they're about even.

It just made me nervous to see that chain zipping through. But I am
NOT a strong person, and I can operate the S/L without straining my
back. We have a long (home made) handle because our second hand
windlass did not come with one. So we can stand upright and work the
handle back and forth. What were you doing to throw out your back?

We do NEED a windlass with all chain and a fairly big anchor.

There's certainly no doubt about that. I've come to the conclusion
that I can anchor just as reliably with lighter gear - a mixed
rope/chain rode plus lighter Delta (or maybe Spade) rather than a
heavy CQR or Bruce. But that's a different discussion.

I don't know what you call a lighter anchor for our boat. We have a
45# CQR, but have never used it. Considering the weight of our boat,
our anchor (which is a #55 SuperMax) isn't very large. There's a
couple of people in our group who have #75 anchors. We also have a
big Danforth on the stern.

We got all chain because we intended to be in the Caribbean with a lot
of rock and coral. And of course with all chain, we don't have to
worry with a mixed rode on the windlass g
grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

* Gogarty wrote, On 4/25/2007 7:29 AM:
In article ,
The advantages to a manual windlass are -- you don't have to have a
battery set up to run it with either long cables to the engine and
main battery setup, or long cables from the main battery bank to the
bow.
Well yes, an electric windlass means electricity. I always thought
the extra battery was a bit silly, but running the wire is no big deal.

You don't need an extra battery and you certainly don't need to put one way
up in the bow. Batteries wear out. Just run the cable to where the
batteries are and install a good 100 amp (or greater) circuit breaker next
to the batteries. The cable will never go bad. The batteries will in due
course.

The breaker should be easily accessible, since you want to keep the
windlass off most of the time for safety.


On another point, not all electric windlasses have manual override. On our
Lewmar, you can launch the anchor if the battery is dead or the motor
burned out but you can't get it back except by man-handling it. Our motor
did die after five years. Local automotive elctrical shop rebuilt it.

Which Lewmar? Our Sprint 1000 (older S/L now replaced by newer Lewmar
models) has a little gadget that allows a winch handle to be used as a
manual over-ride. I thought that every windlass had something like
this as an option.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

* Gogarty wrote, On 4/25/2007 3:01 PM:
In article ,

Ours is a Lewmar Concept 1 with rope/chain gypsy and capstan. The star hole in
the top of the capstan into which fits a standard winch handle only allows you
to loosen the capstan free from the gypsy so that the capstan will turn while
the gypsy remains stationary. You cannot use it to winch up the rode. Turned
in that direction the capstan is secured to the gypsy and they turn together
when power is applied but won't allow you to bring up the rode manually
because you are trying to turn against the reduction gears. When you loosen
it the gypsy runs free and the rode will run out.

Disbelieving, I searched the Lewmar database and indeed, you seem to
have the only windlass that does not have a manual recover method.
All the old S/L's had the option, and all the new Lewmars have it.
And the Ocean series had it. But for some reason, yours doesn't.

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

Thanks for all the comments. It is always good to hear from those who have
tried what works and what doesn't.


"Garland Gray II" wrote in message
...
Anybody out there using a combination rope/chain rode with a horizontal
windlass? Is it manual or electric ?
I'm curious how much of a hastle it is shifting the rode from rope drum to
gypsy. Do you retrieve a bit of chain on the rope drum to get enough tail
and/or use a chain stopper ?

Windlass with rope/chain rode
 

I assume you have to secure the first anchor with a chain stop or similar,
and then loosen the nut locking the gypsy ?

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
I use the capstan if I'm hauling up a second anchor at the same time.

Molesworth