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Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Hi Larry,
I apologise for seeking yet again to pick your brain but.... I am having a Pactor III (USB) modem installed as soon as I get my mast back up again. The local technician who is goiung to do it and whom I purchased the modem from tells me that I need the best earth for data that I can get and that I should purchase a sintered bronze earth plate. Granted, but my retired US Navy radio whizz in Malaysia, Bob, spent a few hours getting our system tuned and earthed a few years ago and said then that it was a good earth. I don't mind shelling out US$200 if it will provide even a modest gain in reception or transmission. What is your angle on this? Given that I do buy it, where is the best place to install it, apart from permanently below the water line? Thanks in high anticipation. cheers Peter Hendra By the way, I am changing all my existing galvanised 1x19 standing rigging for stainless, mainly as the rust on the galv. looks terrible after 14 years aloft. I wanted the old fashioned poured sockets when I built this boat, couldn't get any so made a pattern and had them cast from bronze. - wire is unravelled and a small bent back hook made at the end of each one, re-ravelled and pulled down into the tapered cone of the body of the socket and then filled with molten Camelia metal - lead like. when I cut the sockets off, the wire was perfect and would have lasted another 14 years - rust was only external. fo\restay has always been stainless. The good thing is, that like stalock and Norseman, they are reuseable but there is not the problem of galled stainless upon stainless. The metal also can be reused. |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:01:25 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: Hi Larry, I apologise for seeking yet again to pick your brain but.... I am having a Pactor III (USB) modem installed as soon as I get my mast back up again. The local technician who is goiung to do it and whom I purchased the modem from tells me that I need the best earth for data that I can get and that I should purchase a sintered bronze earth plate. Granted, but my retired US Navy radio whizz in Malaysia, Bob, spent a few hours getting our system tuned and earthed a few years ago and said then that it was a good earth. I don't mind shelling out US$200 if it will provide even a modest gain in reception or transmission. What is your angle on this? Given that I do buy it, where is the best place to install it, apart from permanently below the water line? I have a Pactor III on my boat and we did nothing special for grounding beyond what was already there for the SSB. If your existing SSB is working OK I would not worry about it. What *is* important is to use lots of ferrite RF chokes on all of the inputs and outputs to the Pactor and to the laptop computer. This will help to prevent stray RF energy from getting into the digital circuitry and causing problems. |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:11:11 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: My God Wayne, you're quick. I just posted this. Thank you very much for the advice. $200 is $200 and I can use it elsewhere. I shall install chokes as per your suggestion. I am really looking forward to email at sea. I have had it previously with an Iridium phone that my department head hired for me so that I could continue to manage my project whilst crossing the Atlantic. As they had paid for it, I did not feel comfortable in emailing friends on non-government business. cheers Peter I have a Pactor III on my boat and we did nothing special for grounding beyond what was already there for the SSB. If your existing SSB is working OK I would not worry about it. What *is* important is to use lots of ferrite RF chokes on all of the inputs and outputs to the Pactor and to the laptop computer. This will help to prevent stray RF energy from getting into the digital circuitry and causing problems. |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Peter Hendra wrote in
: I don't mind shelling out US$200 if it will provide even a modest gain in reception or transmission. What is your angle on this? Given that I do buy it, where is the best place to install it, apart from permanently below the water line? If you already have a good earth (ground to the Americans), adding another one probably will make no difference. I would like the ground (er, ah earth) cable that connects the HF tuner to the ocean to be installed with NO SHARP CORNERS in the most direct path available. Make SMOOTH, not necessarily neat, turns. NEVER make a sharp turn with coax cable, I don't care how neat it looks. Sharp turns in the earth bus act like little inductors in series between your tuner and your earth...not good...raises the impedance of the earth to the tuner. To show you how futile this is on a sailboat, let me describe the earth used at an AM broadcast station..... If we drive a 3 meter ground rod into the ground at the base of the AM tower, which is the AM stations actual antenna like your backstay probably is your HF installation, it will work. However, it will not work "good"....near as "good" as 36 sections of bridge cable arranged out horizontally, radially, from a big, heavy cable ring at the base of the tower to hook the transmitter's earth to. It's called a "counterpoise" and creates an artificial earth in even very poorly conducting soil. Now, you can, while you're at sea traveling ahead and not backing over it, create a pseudo copy of this earth with a single wire hooked straight to the tuner's ground post, thrown directly overboard to trail out in the ocean behind the boat...straight as you can get it. The longer the better, but a good length is from 15-35 meters long. DON'T forget to roll it up as you come into port so it fouls rudder or screw! This dirty little secret is a MUCH better earth for your HF radio than anything screwed under the hull. Even hookup wire will work, but a nice old piece of stainless winch cable with lots of open strands that won't rust makes a fantastic trailing-earth ground. Try it with and without....doing a retune on the tuner as it WILL change the feedpoint impedance of your HF antenna quite drastically, once connected. No big $$$ outlay is necessary....just an old piece of stainless cable, tied off to a sturdy handrail post or the base of the backstay below the bottom insulator is fine. Don't worry about it sinking. If it were 100' STRAIGHT DOWN, which it won't be unless you're becalmed, that would be BEST! It doesn't need a dragging anchor to attract the really big fish, either. If you like, you can just trail it out when making HF calls, then coil it back in to store it. Works great... Larry W4CSC -- Geez, a ham letting out his secret weapons...how awful...(c; |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Larry wrote:
snip Now, you can, while you're at sea traveling ahead and not backing over it, create a pseudo copy of this earth with a single wire hooked straight to the tuner's ground post, thrown directly overboard to trail out in the ocean behind the boat...straight as you can get it. The longer the better, but a good length is from 15-35 meters long. DON'T forget to roll it up as you come into port so it fouls rudder or screw! This dirty little secret is a MUCH better earth for your HF radio than anything screwed under the hull. Even hookup wire will work, but a nice old piece of stainless winch cable with lots of open strands that won't rust makes a fantastic trailing-earth ground. Try it with and without....doing a retune on the tuner as it WILL change the feedpoint impedance of your HF antenna quite drastically, once connected. No big $$$ outlay is necessary....just an old piece of stainless cable, tied off to a sturdy handrail post or the base of the backstay below the bottom insulator is fine. Don't worry about it sinking. If it were 100' STRAIGHT DOWN, which it won't be unless you're becalmed, that would be BEST! It doesn't need a dragging anchor to attract the really big fish, either. If you like, you can just trail it out when making HF calls, then coil it back in to store it. Works great... Larry W4CSC Larry, I'll bet it does work great. I studied field theory in engineering school, but I wouldn't have thought of this without you mentioning it. Now if I can only remember this when I need it ;-) Also, it'd sure be great if lightning grounds were this simple... But unfortunately... Don W. |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Don W wrote in
. net: Larry wrote: snip Now, you can, while you're at sea traveling ahead and not backing over it, create a pseudo copy of this earth with a single wire hooked straight to the tuner's ground post, thrown directly overboard to trail out in the ocean behind the boat...straight as you can get it. The longer the better, but a good length is from 15-35 meters long. DON'T forget to roll it up as you come into port so it fouls rudder or screw! This dirty little secret is a MUCH better earth for your HF radio than anything screwed under the hull. Even hookup wire will work, but a nice old piece of stainless winch cable with lots of open strands that won't rust makes a fantastic trailing-earth ground. Try it with and without....doing a retune on the tuner as it WILL change the feedpoint impedance of your HF antenna quite drastically, once connected. No big $$$ outlay is necessary....just an old piece of stainless cable, tied off to a sturdy handrail post or the base of the backstay below the bottom insulator is fine. Don't worry about it sinking. If it were 100' STRAIGHT DOWN, which it won't be unless you're becalmed, that would be BEST! It doesn't need a dragging anchor to attract the really big fish, either. If you like, you can just trail it out when making HF calls, then coil it back in to store it. Works great... Larry W4CSC Larry, I'll bet it does work great. I studied field theory in engineering school, but I wouldn't have thought of this without you mentioning it. Now if I can only remember this when I need it ;-) Also, it'd sure be great if lightning grounds were this simple... But unfortunately... Don W. When you're at the dock or anchored out, drop a small anchor with the ground wire attached off the back of the boat overboard, but not touching bottom so it will follow you around as the boat swings around. My anchor is a beer can filled with sand. This holds the OTHER half of your massive dipole vertically in the perfect groundwater for great HF comms.... PLEASE put a tag on the engine controls to remind you the HF ground is overboard before starting the engine and blaming me for the fouled prop backing down...thanks. Larry -- |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Don W wrote in news:vMwXh.19209
: Also, it'd sure be great if lightning grounds were this simple... But unfortunately... Actually, they ARE that simple. Trail two more ground cables, during the storms, attached to the port and starboard shrouds to trail off electrons to the sea, right where it's SO easy to attach them at the deck/chainplates. Don't be neat...use hefty stainless winch cable, stranded gets the best ground. Find something to stow them in at the base of the shrouds when not in lightning storms. Great grounds are easy in the ocean....that don't HAVE to be through a hole in that leaky hull! Just let the cable trail back on either side in the wake. It only matters that they are submerged, not skipping along the surface. On our ketch, at 6 knots, skipping along the surface would be a miracle...(c; Larry -- |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:14:18 +0000, Larry wrote:
Larry, A few questions from a dummy in this area. What diameter should I make the floating ground for the aerial (4mm ?) I did try trailing a chain and weight on the end of a cable from the base of the port shroud as alightning ground but the damn thing was bumping annoyingly against the hull. My back stay is split at the masthead - one is the aerial for SSB and the other is entire. Could I attach a cable to that and throwm it ovewr the stern? - or would two attached to the capshrouds give better protection? I unashamdely admit to being terrified of being struck again - not a personal fear but one of having to shell out all those dollars again to replace it all. I got sick of pulling all the plugs out from the instruments when lightning hove in the distance - in our path, so I put the 13 wires to the radar unit for example to a 15 pin plug that just pulls apart - other instruments likewise. N o more hiolding a colured Visio schematic and trying to figure colours in the dark. I should have shaved my arms before antifouling - I am still picking it off despite cleaning up and showering. cheers Peter Don W wrote in news:vMwXh.19209 : Also, it'd sure be great if lightning grounds were this simple... But unfortunately... Actually, they ARE that simple. Trail two more ground cables, during the storms, attached to the port and starboard shrouds to trail off electrons to the sea, right where it's SO easy to attach them at the deck/chainplates. Don't be neat...use hefty stainless winch cable, stranded gets the best ground. Find something to stow them in at the base of the shrouds when not in lightning storms. Great grounds are easy in the ocean....that don't HAVE to be through a hole in that leaky hull! Just let the cable trail back on either side in the wake. It only matters that they are submerged, not skipping along the surface. On our ketch, at 6 knots, skipping along the surface would be a miracle...(c; Larry |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:04:02 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:14:18 +0000, Larry wrote: Oh, and what is an optimum length and diameter - covered in plastic or bare? - I know, only a project manager would want precision such as this. Thanks for all of this Larry. I shall follow your advice. By the way, I have been dutifully hoarding my softdrink/soda/pop plastic bottles. I even have a large hanging laundry bag to store them in after rinsing them. However, my favourite drinks here in Trinidad are Lemon, Lime and Bitters sold by the Angostura company in small glass bottles and cans of coconut and pineapple fizzy drink. Are you aware of any techiques whereby I can put out "message in a can" or "message in a small glass green bottle"? I have been drinking Coca Cola but no longer wish to support that icon of American Imperialism (openly at least). We called in to Assab a few years back, the large and empty Eritrean port that had been captured back from the invading Ethiopians. At the time, Eritrea was the second poorest nation and had just won a war of independence against colonising Ethiopia with no external aid despite both the US and Ruissians suppling their foes with weapons at different times. The town had nothing but a single main unpaved street, and apart from the port wharves and cranes was largely unchanged since the Italians colonised it after the Great War. There were a lot of little cafes making great, strong and flavoursome (eat your heart out Vic) espresso coffee with beautifully maintained polished brass and copper machines dating back to the 1920's. The only other non-alcoholic drink was good old Coca-Cola kept cool with ice. Expectedly, both tasted divine. I only ask about the cans as I recognise the spirit of a lateral thinking mind and you are wholely responsible for my collection fetish/mania. I almost ate a half eaten hamburger from a rubbish bin the other day - it looked delicious but some people I knew were looking. Still, as my Zoology professor said - "The good germs fight the bad germs and the good germs usually win". Waiting for it............... cheers Peter the dumpster man Larry, A few questions from a dummy in this area. What diameter should I make the floating ground for the aerial (4mm ?) I did try trailing a chain and weight on the end of a cable from the base of the port shroud as alightning ground but the damn thing was bumping annoyingly against the hull. My back stay is split at the masthead - one is the aerial for SSB and the other is entire. Could I attach a cable to that and throwm it ovewr the stern? - or would two attached to the capshrouds give better protection? I unashamdely admit to being terrified of being struck again - not a personal fear but one of having to shell out all those dollars again to replace it all. I got sick of pulling all the plugs out from the instruments when lightning hove in the distance - in our path, so I put the 13 wires to the radar unit for example to a 15 pin plug that just pulls apart - other instruments likewise. N o more hiolding a colured Visio schematic and trying to figure colours in the dark. I should have shaved my arms before antifouling - I am still picking it off despite cleaning up and showering. cheers Peter Don W wrote in news:vMwXh.19209 : Also, it'd sure be great if lightning grounds were this simple... But unfortunately... Actually, they ARE that simple. Trail two more ground cables, during the storms, attached to the port and starboard shrouds to trail off electrons to the sea, right where it's SO easy to attach them at the deck/chainplates. Don't be neat...use hefty stainless winch cable, stranded gets the best ground. Find something to stow them in at the base of the shrouds when not in lightning storms. Great grounds are easy in the ocean....that don't HAVE to be through a hole in that leaky hull! Just let the cable trail back on either side in the wake. It only matters that they are submerged, not skipping along the surface. On our ketch, at 6 knots, skipping along the surface would be a miracle...(c; Larry |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:41:17 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: There were a lot of little cafes making great, strong and flavoursome (eat your heart out Vic) espresso coffee with beautifully maintained polished brass and copper machines dating back to the 1920's. The only other non-alcoholic drink was good old Coca-Cola kept cool with ice. Expectedly, both tasted divine. I do miss the espressos I often had in coastal European towns when in the Navy years ago. I suspect this is due to my youth at the time and the ambience of the surroundings more than the coffee itself, or just an entirely faulty memory. In any case, good espresso is available nearby, but the experience would certainly not be Ethiopian. Your Coke reference brings to mind some other experience that may be useful to those in the tropics and not having ice available. My boiler room was normally @ 110-120 degrees F. when steaming in the daytime Caribbean. We boilermen often stood near powered vents to gain comfort from the cool 100 degree air forced in from the sunny outside decks. I always (after my first cruise, that is) brought some cans of Coke on cruises, kept in my boiler room locker, which would hold about 12 cans. They became quite valuable after a few weeks at sea, and I was offered as much as $5 for a can. My monthly salary was @ $90 then. Anyway, I never sold any, but did give away a few. Our method of cooling a can of soda in the boiler room was to wrap it in a wet rag and place it in a vent. The strength of the air blowing there was very strong. Maybe 30 knots. The rag was wetted as many times as necessary to cool the soda. Repeated wetting only whetted the appetite for the imminent treat. Can't say exactly how cold it got the soda, but I'd estimate 70 degrees or less. Damn cold relatively speaking. And in the case of cooling Coke in a Navy boiler room, I am a relativist. Whether this would work for tropical sailors I don't know. --Vic |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:46:54 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: Hi Vic, Thanks for this tip that I had forgotten. I had expected an irate outburst from you denying that you were a coffee philistine but you ignored the bait. Years ago when we used to go camping (tenting) as a young family at our beach property we used this trick to keep fhe food cool. We had no spare cash to buy a fridge and would hang such as milk bottles (are you old enough to remember when milk came in bottles?) wrapped in a wet rag from a shaded tree branch. The evaporation kept it cool. I also had a couple of open sided large concrete building blocks (8 inches wide ones to give a 16 inch square) buried in the sandy ground - 2 high with a concrete paving stone on top. It also was in the shade and kept constantly damp. Both worked very well. I taught science at highschool for a couple of years then and am trying to remember the science of it. Something about the latent heat of evaporation and the energy required to turn the water into a gas and why methylated spirits or alcohol rubbed on the skin gives a greater cooling feeling than does water. It turns into a gas at a lower temperature. Memory is dim on this. I understand your memories of having coffee at some of the places you must have visited in the Med. My family being from Crete, I was raised on the Greek/Turkish style of heating it on a sand brazier in a small pot which I sometimes drink on the boat though I do prefer Italian style espresso. Unfortunately I don't have the power for a decent expresso machine onboard though I have one at home. My best coffee memory is of rising at 5 am in the hotel in Cairo (I am an early riser) and going to a 24 hour cafe to have coffee and a shisha (huba buba water filtered smoking device) in the street with other regulars on their way to and from work. Same as you, probably the ambiance. I agree. There is nothing quite like a cold coke when you are thirsty and hot. Must be the caffiene hit and thus the resultant addiction. Damned economic imperialism. It should be included in the war on drugs. Incidentally, as to our term 'philistine', it appears that it is a misnomer and that it was the Israelites who were the unsophisticated tribal barbarians who had migrated in from the desert and who were the destroyers. The Israeli archeological department and academics have recently excavated many Philistine cities and have expressed this view themselves. They have shown that the Philistines were from Mycenean Greece and were the kin of Agamemnon, Menelaus, Ulysses, and Achilles (who was of course my direct ancestor on my mother's father's side of the family). They had a very definite high level of sophisticated manufacture of bronze, gold and pottery and also used traded goods from all over the known world, being maritime merchants themselves which is why these cities were founded along the coast. Before I get castigated for being anti-Israeli (I'm not) by those who make an overly simple connection, look it up on the web. I am fascinated by the proven connection they have made with the many references in historical literature throughout the Middle East to the "sea peoples". It was always a mystery as to who they were and where they came from. If you are interested, also look up the 14th century BC bronze age shipwreck that is now displayed in the museum at Bodrum castle in Turkey. It contains items from all over the then known world and shows the well developed trade links between nations. Bronze, wine and olive oil were the base products for international commerce then, not Coca-Cola. Yes, I know that this is off topic, but this is why I 'cruise' - to visit these places and see and experience in the first person. My occupation is in modern technology but my passion is for history. cheers Peter Our method of cooling a can of soda in the boiler room was to wrap it in a wet rag and place it in a vent. The strength of the air blowing there was very strong. Maybe 30 knots. The rag was wetted as many times as necessary to cool the soda. Repeated wetting only whetted the appetite for the imminent treat. Can't say exactly how cold it got the soda, but I'd estimate 70 degrees or less. Damn cold relatively speaking. And in the case of cooling Coke in a Navy boiler room, I am a relativist. Whether this would work for tropical sailors I don't know. --Vic |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:54:45 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:46:54 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: Hi Vic, Thanks for this tip that I had forgotten. I had expected an irate outburst from you denying that you were a coffee philistine but you ignored the bait. Ah. Then you are prone to making unfounded assumptions. I must say I am disappointed at that (-: Years ago when we used to go camping (tenting) as a young family at our beach property we used this trick to keep fhe food cool. We had no spare cash to buy a fridge and would hang such as milk bottles (are you old enough to remember when milk came in bottles?) Yes, and with cream floating on top too. And I remember scraping wax with my fingernails from coated cardboard milk cartons as I ate cereal, when that transition was made. They say more changes in the way we live have occurred in the last 100 or so years than in all times prior. I've seen many of those changes myself, recalling living with an icebox, horse drawn vendor wagons in the streets of Chicago, etc. But here's something pasted below that I noted in another group a while ago. It was a thread about "most important innovations." It puts technological progress in a perspective we normally don't - or can't - imagine. "An old farmer I saw on the Johnny Carson had his answer, which with I agree, and from the response of the audience, they did too. He was 100 years old, and Carson asked him if he was still working the farm. He said he did a bit of work, but his son was doing the seeding, plowing, etc. Carson asked him how old is your son, and the farmer said 80. That got a laugh. Then - this was very early '70s - Carson mentioned TV, man on the moon, fast cars, etc, all the usual suspect innovations you might imagine that a man born about 1870 and still alive had witnessed. Then Carson asked the old guy what innovation had most impressed him and changed his life during its long span. The old man didn't bat an eye, but just said "Electricity." The audience roared. Nobody expected that answer, because they took that for granted. But judging from Carson's and the audience's reaction, nobody disagreed." wrapped in a wet rag from a shaded tree branch. The evaporation kept it cool. I also had a couple of open sided large concrete building blocks (8 inches wide ones to give a 16 inch square) buried in the sandy ground - 2 high with a concrete paving stone on top. It also was in the shade and kept constantly damp. Both worked very well. I taught science at highschool for a couple of years then and am trying to remember the science of it. Something about the latent heat of evaporation and the energy required to turn the water into a gas and why methylated spirits or alcohol rubbed on the skin gives a greater cooling feeling than does water. It turns into a gas at a lower temperature. Memory is dim on this. Sounds right enough. My steam training covered all this and I used to hold in my head the BTU count for every stage of the water to steam process. Vaporization is by far the most energetic piece, and did the trick with a can of Coke. I understand your memories of having coffee at some of the places you must have visited in the Med. My family being from Crete, I was raised on the Greek/Turkish style of heating it on a sand brazier in a small pot which I sometimes drink on the boat though I do prefer Italian style espresso. Unfortunately I don't have the power for a decent expresso machine onboard though I have one at home. Your family being from Crete perhaps gives you a special sensitivity to words such as "philistine." Actually, I haven't had an espresso coffee since Italy many years ago. They were mostly con leche or con cognac. I did learn a pidgin Italiano and those Spanish terms sufficed for my infrequent coffee orders in Italy. My habits are at least half a gallon on coffee daily and coffee is my main source of liquids. Espresso would quickly do me in, all else being equal. I do occasionally make a very strong drip brew but it is weaker than espresso. I am about to go out with my wife and am determined to stop for an espresso to erase my current ignorance.. My best coffee memory is of rising at 5 am in the hotel in Cairo (I am an early riser) and going to a 24 hour cafe to have coffee and a shisha (huba buba water filtered smoking device) in the street with other regulars on their way to and from work. Same as you, probably the ambiance. I agree. There is nothing quite like a cold coke when you are thirsty and hot. Must be the caffiene hit and thus the resultant addiction. Damned economic imperialism. It should be included in the war on drugs. Exactly right about thirsty and hot. That is really the main time I drink it. And addiction. I was surprised when my otherwise food- frugal wife got the habit of a Coke every day. She's originally a farm girl from Poland and wasn't exposed to it there. Better that than vodka, no doubt. Incidentally, as to our term 'philistine', it appears that it is a misnomer and that it was the Israelites who were the unsophisticated tribal barbarians who had migrated in from the desert and who were the destroyers. The Israeli archeological department and academics have recently excavated many Philistine cities and have expressed this view themselves. They have shown that the Philistines were from Mycenean Greece and were the kin of Agamemnon, Menelaus, Ulysses, and Achilles (who was of course my direct ancestor on my mother's father's side of the family). They had a very definite high level of sophisticated manufacture of bronze, gold and pottery and also used traded goods from all over the known world, being maritime merchants themselves which is why these cities were founded along the coast. Before I get castigated for being anti-Israeli (I'm not) by those who make an overly simple connection, look it up on the web. I am fascinated by the proven connection they have made with the many references in historical literature throughout the Middle East to the "sea peoples". It was always a mystery as to who they were and where they came from. If you are interested, also look up the 14th century BC bronze age shipwreck that is now displayed in the museum at Bodrum castle in Turkey. It contains items from all over the then known world and shows the well developed trade links between nations. Bronze, wine and olive oil were the base products for international commerce then, not Coca-Cola. What a rich find that was! And it must have been a great loss to merchants of the time when it sank. I wish I knew of this when my destroyer was steaming about Cyprus in 1964 during that so-called "crisis." It would have added some reflection to that boring time, when we were at sea for more than 30 days. I'm also interested in history and cultures, and sensing the place in time of events can be an almost mystical experience. In 1988 I took my family on a driving trip of the western U.S. We mostly stayed off the interstate highways and tent camped except every 5th day or so, when we would overnight in a motel. We stopped at many historical sites, mostly related to the westward settlement of America; wagon trails, sites of Indian ambushes, etc. Most of these were very recent in the scope of time, circa mid-19th century. One day in a small Kansas town we stopped in the town museum. I can't recall the name of the town. I saw a metal helmet in a glass case, and upon reading the description found it was discovered by a boy in a cave outside town in 1912 and experts say it was left there by a member of Coronado's expedition of 1540! Since I have studied some history and literature I instantly had a context for this as immediately predating Shakespeare and the Elizabethan period. I stood in awe before that helmet, with thoughts of the Spanish Conquests, gold, Coronado, Aztecs, native American Indian cultures, Henry VIII, his wives, English law, the Jamestown settlement 67 years in the future of this helmet's placement in the lonely Kansas cave - all flying about in my head. It was one of those subliminal experiences. In writing this I did a net search to find the name of that Kansas town and discovered the provenance of artifacts like this helmet are somewhat in question, and it is likely I was simply a tourist rube tricked by some slick Kansas chamber of commerce scheme. Be that as it may, Coronado was close by in 1540 and that helmet did the trick for me in putting this Kansas place in the vast sweep of time. BTW, Dana's Two Years Before the Mast had a similar effect on me when I read of that 1834 voyage knowing of other contemporary events. My history knowledge is lacking many specifics in many areas not directly studied in college, largely due to my lack of travel. When I traveled to Europe and the Caribbean as a youth I had more interest in whorestory than history. But of course that was also something of a cultural education and more fun to me at that time than stuffy museums. Yes, I know that this is off topic, but this is why I 'cruise' - to visit these places and see and experience in the first person. My occupation is in modern technology but my passion is for history. Very good. Wish I were with you drinking coffee. --Vic |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Peter Hendra wrote in
: Could I attach a cable to that and throwm it ovewr the stern? - or would two attached to the capshrouds give better protection? I unashamdely admit to being terrified of being struck again - not a personal fear but one of having to shell out all those dollars again to replace it all. Yes, that should work fine as a good static discharge if the solid backstay is electrically attached to the metal mast. The more paths you provide to seawater ground from that mast....smooth paths with no hard angles just to make it look "neat", whatever that means....the better. There is no such thing as "lightning protection". There is surge protection and static discharge. Static discharge helps prevent lightning strikes on anything. The static radiating off things is what makes the path for the "main bang", hundreds of millions of amps at hundreds of millions of volts nothing can possibly stop. If your boat is directly hit by a massive lightning strike, it will be destroyed, not an issue. However, oddly, not many direct hits happen. What does happen is static discharges from nearby hits and St Elmo's Fire, the buildup of static on the rigging not bled off. These discharges, say from the base of an ungrounded mast, will hole the hull in a hundred places...sinking the boat. One of my friends was senior engineer for Dialpage in Charleston. I had a packet 2 meter ham radio digital station on one of Dailpage's towers, serving the ham community with packet radio for years. This tower had 3 candelabra-mounted paging antennas at 330 ft AGL and a very nice grounding system to bleed off the static charge, done the best way possible to protect the expensive paging transmitters. It took a direct hit. The top 8 ft of the tower, along with the entire candelabra antenna system, SIMPLY VANISHED. Not a trace of it was found on the ground. The stroke mostly ignored the extensive, professionally- installed ground system after the stroke turned bridge cables into molten bits of metal, all the way to bedrock under the tower. After those first few microseconds, now with no ground system, the stroke entered the transmitter building, which also had a very extensive, professionally- installed grounding system to protect everything in the building. Bus bars that were 1/2" thick copper by 2" wide straps were melted, ripped out of their mounting brackets by the intense magnetic pulse (EMP) the stroke caused. Every piece of paging equipment, tower lighting equipment, emergency and AC power panels, even the big diesel genset outside on its pad, were utterly destroyed. The huge power cables that came from the building to the power pole outside were "stretched" by the current blast that blew the transformers (3 phases) off the pole and drooped these heavy cables to within a foot of the road they crossed over. A boater stands NO chance against such a stroke. Glad it doesn't happen often, but I cannot imagine why. WJBF-TV/FM in Augusta, GA, was similarly destroyed by a direct hit a long time ago. The stroke destroyed the telephone system around the tower over a diameter of over 4 miles! JBF is Channel 6. A few miles away is Channel 12's tower...the OTHER part of the path! The stroke hit them both in a big, grounded loop, simultaneously. One of my old broadcast buddies, who was the duty engineer at JBF at the time, weighted in around 400 pounds. It blew him right off his chair at the console! The stroke came out the front panel of the FM transmitter and hit the console he was sitting at! He came to in time to help put out the fires and get out of the building. They were off the air for months replacing it all...melted. Larry -- Lightning scares the crap out of me, sitting there in the cockpit at the base of the big lightning rods, holding onto the metal wheel hooked to the metal GROUNDED rudder hanging out in the sea, below..... |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: Oh, and what is an optimum length and diameter - covered in plastic or bare? - I know, only a project manager would want precision such as this. Thanks for all of this Larry. I shall follow your advice. Optimum length would be 5% longer than 1/4 wavelength of the frequency you are operating on. 1/4 wavelength in meters is 75.7/frequency in Mhz. So, if we are on 6 Mhz, for instance, we get 75.7/6 x 1.05 = 13.2 meters. But, because the radiating element ISN'T a proper length and we are using a tuner, just make it LONG and the tuner will tune out the reactance and match it up... -------------------------------------------------- On another issue you have brought up, you said you had two backstays in parallel, one with insulators that is the antenna and one that is not and is solidly connected to the mast, right?? If this is so, in close proximity to the radiating element, that second backstay is simply absorbing a major part of your radiation from the real antenna, greatly reducing your actual field strength at some remote receiver. We can't stop induced, out of phase, RF currents in any of the rigging, but you can reduce it, greatly, giving you a nicely stronger signal. If these backstays are as I think, please consider putting insulators at equal distance in BOTH backstays,not just one. Then, run a jumper between upper end of the bottom insulators, effectively paralleling them. Feed the tuner into the CENTER of this jumper, which can also be two equal-length wires from the HV output of the tuner to the two insulator feedpoints. The effect of doing this is a radiator that is MUCH greater in "virtual diameter", both radiating IN PHASE, which aids their field strength. Instead of the second backstay absorbing the signal, it will create more signal, in phase. If your tuner is below them, you can either make a T to feed the two backstays or just Y them out of the tuner, itself, with EQUAL LENGTH conductors to preserve their phase relationship. Larry -- Antennas R Us If it doesn't glow blue after dark, power output is down.....(c; |
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On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:23:57 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: The old man didn't bat an eye, but just said "Electricity." The audience roared. Nobody expected that answer, because they took that for granted. But judging from Carson's and the audience's reaction, nobody disagreed." Just spend a few days in your house without electricity and you will rapidly agree. It changes your whole lifestyle, and not for the better. |
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....
Lightning scares the crap out of me, sitting there in the cockpit at the base of the big lightning rods, holding onto the metal wheel hooked to the metal GROUNDED rudder hanging out in the sea, below..... Me too. It is certainly the scariest thing we see regularly when off shore. I routinely run a chain from my forestay to the sea (you can do this on a catamaran) in the hope that it will direct the worst of a hit away from the people on the boat. But, when I look at the aluminum mast full of copper wires all nicely grounded to my engines that are electrically connected to the sea I have doubts about how much current will decide to go down a stainless wire. Do you think that the resistance is small enough on stainless wire to dissipate the static charge, or would it be better to ground the mast to the sea with a low resistance wire to deal with the static? -- Tom. |
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" wrote in
ps.com: Do you think that the resistance is small enough on stainless wire to dissipate the static charge, or would it be better to ground the mast to the sea with a low resistance wire to deal with the static? Static, yes. NOTHING dissipates lightning's pulse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djZo0...elated&search= Watch his hand arc to the insulated-from-ground motorcycle! EMP caused the bike to be instantly charged. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUOd...elated&search= Direct hit on a minivan on the road! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNhY3...elated&search= This one hitting a tower would be what your boat mast would look like.... Larry -- |
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Thanks Larry,
You are making my simple mind spin. Seriously though, I am truly appreciative of your advice in this and all matters. What you say about backstay aerials makes sense and I shall do as you suggest. What I would really like, as do most others, is long range voice comms. If anything reasonable helps in any way, I will do it. There is nothing quite so annoying as to not be able to receive an interpretable weather fax because of poor reception. I'll add the ground from my stays. By the way, I neglected to tell that I have a painted box section wooden mast, deck stepped. Forestay, backstays and capshrouds are electrically connected due to their attachment at the head of the mast. There is an aluminium sailtrack which has no connection. Should this be a factor for consideration? My specific area of small expertise over the past few years has been packet data and such as better compression algorithms, up and down linking to comms satellites, and the problem of latency or delay in resending packets - solved by a really neat way of transmitting two packet streams, with a slight delay on the second. If one packet address is missing or denatured in some way, "it" merely grabs its copy from the second incoming stream without having to ask the originator for a resend and the consequent latency or time delays whilst waiting - speeds it up no end. Probably been invented before somewhere else but that sort of thing happens all the time. The tracking system can track all of our active patrol boats as well as Indonesia's ( and give postion, direction, speed and a lot of other data in sub minute real time as well as sending and receiving text messages and orders. If we needed to, we could add engine revs, temperature and a lot of other really uinnecessary stuff. Even though mobile phones are just glorified two channel radios, So far as radio propagation (and most of the rest of it) has failed to lodge in my brain successfully. Thanks again for being so helpful and for freely disseminating your experienced advice to those such as me whom you will probably never meet. cheers Peter On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:33:31 +0000, Larry wrote: Peter Hendra wrote in : Oh, and what is an optimum length and diameter - covered in plastic or bare? - I know, only a project manager would want precision such as this. Thanks for all of this Larry. I shall follow your advice. Optimum length would be 5% longer than 1/4 wavelength of the frequency you are operating on. 1/4 wavelength in meters is 75.7/frequency in Mhz. So, if we are on 6 Mhz, for instance, we get 75.7/6 x 1.05 = 13.2 meters. But, because the radiating element ISN'T a proper length and we are using a tuner, just make it LONG and the tuner will tune out the reactance and match it up... -------------------------------------------------- On another issue you have brought up, you said you had two backstays in parallel, one with insulators that is the antenna and one that is not and is solidly connected to the mast, right?? If this is so, in close proximity to the radiating element, that second backstay is simply absorbing a major part of your radiation from the real antenna, greatly reducing your actual field strength at some remote receiver. We can't stop induced, out of phase, RF currents in any of the rigging, but you can reduce it, greatly, giving you a nicely stronger signal. If these backstays are as I think, please consider putting insulators at equal distance in BOTH backstays,not just one. Then, run a jumper between upper end of the bottom insulators, effectively paralleling them. Feed the tuner into the CENTER of this jumper, which can also be two equal-length wires from the HV output of the tuner to the two insulator feedpoints. The effect of doing this is a radiator that is MUCH greater in "virtual diameter", both radiating IN PHASE, which aids their field strength. Instead of the second backstay absorbing the signal, it will create more signal, in phase. If your tuner is below them, you can either make a T to feed the two backstays or just Y them out of the tuner, itself, with EQUAL LENGTH conductors to preserve their phase relationship. Larry |
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On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:33:31 +0000, Larry wrote:
Hi Larry, On another issue you have brought up, you said you had two backstays in parallel, one with insulators that is the antenna and one that is not and is solidly connected to the mast, right?? Correct. as advised by a rigger who was using a rule of thumb, the top insulator is 3 feet down from the seperation point. If this is so, in close proximity to the radiating element, that second backstay is simply absorbing a major part of your radiation from the real antenna, greatly reducing your actual field strength at some remote receiver. We can't stop induced, out of phase, RF currents in any of the rigging, but you can reduce it, greatly, giving you a nicely stronger signal. If these backstays are as I think, please consider putting insulators at equal distance in BOTH backstays,not just one. Then, run a jumper between upper end of the bottom insulators, effectively paralleling them. Feed the tuner into the CENTER of this jumper, which can also be two equal-length wires from the HV output of the tuner to the two insulator feedpoints. The effect of doing this is a radiator that is MUCH greater in "virtual diameter", both radiating IN PHASE, which aids their field strength. Instead of the second backstay absorbing the signal, it will create more signal, in phase. If your tuner is below them, you can either make a T to feed the two backstays or just Y them out of the tuner, itself, with EQUAL LENGTH conductors to preserve their phase relationship. Larry |
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:40:19 +0000, Larry wrote:
" wrote in ups.com: Do you think that the resistance is small enough on stainless wire to dissipate the static charge, or would it be better to ground the mast to the sea with a low resistance wire to deal with the static? Static, yes. NOTHING dissipates lightning's pulse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djZo0...elated&search= Watch his hand arc to the insulated-from-ground motorcycle! EMP caused the bike to be instantly charged. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUOd...elated&search= Direct hit on a minivan on the road! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNhY3...elated&search= This one hitting a tower would be what your boat mast would look like.... Larry Wow Larry! I think I'll walk back home a liitleways behind my wife who will have an open umbrella. You are quite right. There is nothing so numbing to one's sense of well being than to be on a yacht that is the highest thing around with lightning hitting the sea around you. It is a horrible feeling of just waiting and knowing inside your soul that it will probably happen soon. It's quite amazing what it does to a normally rational mind. Does sacrificing chickens help in anyway? I could carry a cage over the stern. So, if Zeus is angry at us Greeks for neglecting to worship him for the past 1700 years or so, we could appease him with a little chicken? Or, should I aquire a bronze tripod and brazier and offer hecatombs of fat ox flesh in a fire? My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand always throw back the first fish (no matter how big or even if they have caught nothing for hours) caught as an offering to the sea god Tangaroa even though they are Christian, as educated as anyone else and don't believe in the old god's. When there, I even do it. Scratch modern man and the primitive is only beneath the skin. You just never know. So, how about chickens? cheers Peter |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand Wow...lucky guy! Maori women are a truly beautiful set of genes...(c; Larry -- |
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On Apr 28, 8:07 pm, Larry wrote:
Peter Hendra wrote : My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand Wow...lucky guy! Maori women are a truly beautiful set of genes...(c; Larry -- You like the tatoo's....right ? Joe |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: Seriously though, I am truly appreciative of your advice in this and all matters. What you say about backstay aerials makes sense and I shall do as you suggest. What I would really like, as do most others, is long range voice comms. If anything reasonable helps in any way, I will do it. There is nothing quite so annoying as to not be able to receive an interpretable weather fax because of poor reception. Whatever else you can do to move as much of the suspended metal away from the radiating antenna element is of most importance in creating more field strength at the remote receiver. When Geoffrey first got Lionheart, the mainmast backstay on the ketch goes from the rear of the center cockpit right up in parallel with the boom lift, which WAS a stainless steel cable attached to the mast. If the boat were close hauled, that cable was only a couple of feet from the radiating backstay and just sucked the signal the transmitter was putting out right out of the air. We replaced it with a proper, non-conductive, line and got rid of the mainsail problem. It matters not where the main is sheeted to the transmission, now. I also made the backstay antenna BIGGER, longer, with a capacitor hat top, because I find we use the lower HF frequencies more often. The triattic between the masts was insulated fore and aft making a flat top insulated wire. I insisted on the highest voltage insulators because at the top end of every HF antenna, no matter what frequency you are on, there is no current, only very high voltage at the top. I then added a small cable from the upper end of the insulated backstay antenna (below the upper insulator, of course) to the center of the triattic right above it, creating a longer antenna with a capacitor hat top. http://www.cebik.com/gp/cp-th.html Notice the radiation pattern graph on this webpage of a vertical dipole, a 1/4 wave vertical against a ground plane (that ocean ground we want) and how the radiation pattern is much more HORIZONTAL, out towards that remote station we are trying to contact, with the addition of the triattic capacitor hat. Anything we can do to lower the vertical's too- high radiation angle will make our signal much stronger out over the horizon as it will lower the angle of attack on the ionosphere. I've been playing with antennas since I was 10. I've been burned playing with antennas since I was 11....the day the first ham transmitter was operated...(c; That was 1957...a great year for ham radio at the peak of the sunspot cycle maximum. Larry W4CSC - proof positive RF ISN'T hazardous to your health. I'm still being burned playing with antennas...(c; -- |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: I'll add the ground from my stays. By the way, I neglected to tell that I have a painted box section wooden mast, deck stepped. Forestay, backstays and capshrouds are electrically connected due to their attachment at the head of the mast. There is an aluminium sailtrack which has no connection. Should this be a factor for consideration? I'd feel better if you'd add a smooth metal cap at the top of the mast to bleed off static buildup before it causes a strike. We've learned a lot since the "lightning rod" days, one of the worst things ever done to protect buildings from lightning. Remember those sharp-pointed lightning rods that sprayed electrons into the air to ionize it and GIVE the clouds a path to ground....right at the top of the flammable barn roof? This was NOT the way to protect buildings! Today, lightning systems use a grounded, smooth copper flashing that distributes the electrons along a smooth, long surface to release them over as wide an area as possible. A pointy grounded thingy ATTRACTS lightning because there is a concentrated stream of electrons spraying off the point, ionizing the air above the point...exactly what the cloud is looking for. If there's some kind of metal ring at the top of the mast that's grounded by the various shrouds and stays, that's great. A metal cap that can take a pretty good strike, might also keep a hit from boiling the sap in the mast, creating a steam explosion and putting you out of the sailing business. This alone makes a mast top bypass cap a good thing. Larry -- |
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If there's some kind of metal ring at the top of the mast that's grounded by the various shrouds and stays, that's great. A metal cap that can take a pretty good strike, might also keep a hit from boiling the sap in the mast, creating a steam explosion and putting you out of the sailing business. This alone makes a mast top bypass cap a good thing. Larry yes, it is just as you describe, but this generates another question (sorry). I had often thought of putting a pointed copper rod on top grounded to the stays as per many books and articles on the matter. I have never done so because I believed that it would act as an attractant, rather like Benjamin Franklin's key on the kite string. Also what got hit first during the lightning strike in Malaysia - the day we went back into the water before setting out across the Indian Ocean mind you - was the VHF aerial. the question is - does the damned thing act as a lightning attractor as it is the highest thing there? cheers Peter |
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:07:51 +0000, Larry wrote:
Peter Hendra wrote in : My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand Wow...lucky guy! Maori women are a truly beautiful set of genes...(c; Larry Correction Larry, Gene carriers - remember your Dawkins or do you wish chapter and verse. I'd have to look it up. If you like Dawkins (personally I think he is a pompous English prigg - but he may act differently to Americans. In Australia he was rather patronisingly superior to the colonials but it could also have been nervousness), you should like Gerard Diamond. The first book of his I read was "The Third Chimpanzee". Perhaps it is because my formal education was in Zoology that I find him interesting but I admit to being disappointed that he made no mention that North Americans have only descended from the trees more recently than the population in the Antipodes. I was hoping to find a scientific rationale for the American failure to appreciate really good coffee - straight black and strong (Hello Vic Smith) Seriously though, he provides some thought provoking concepts that I know you will enjoy. From memory, he talks about conditioning for mate selection - pink painted mother rat's nipples causing the male offspring to prefer mating with females with similar painted nipples and a hoist of other thought provoking concepts. I know that you will enjoy it. If you cannot find a copy let me know and I shall send you one as a small payment for your valuable help.I have kept my copy and have bought copies for other people as I don't want to lend mine. cheers Peter I have kept my copy and have bought copies for other people as I don't want to lend mine. |
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On 28 Apr 2007 18:32:57 -0700, Joe wrote:
On Apr 28, 8:07 pm, Larry wrote: Peter Hendra wrote : My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand Wow...lucky guy! Maori women are a truly beautiful set of genes...(c; Larry -- You like the tatoo's....right ? Joe My Dear Joe and Larry, Sorry guys, I too had to wait for the African articles in the National Geographic (a la Bill Crosby) to come out for my sex education. Sorry to burst your bubble but paint on tattoos are nowadays for the tourists. My wife/owner no longer swings from tree to tree though she did have her own horse at age 3 on the farm, climbs to the top of the mast and dives under to clear the prop. without hesitation now - I have developed whimpitis with age and only do so when she is not around. The closest thing to a tattoo she has had is spending four hours getting her hands and feet - even the soles - hennaed by some Bedu women in Sudan. She is an accountant, a most boring occupation. Sorry, her father does not dress in a piupiu (dressed flax skirt) and run about amok with a spear and a jade club anymore. He hasn't the time as he milks 180 dairy cows with electricity and a milking machine and has beef cattle that have to be mustered out of the forest every year on horseback as well as sheep. They may have eaten people up until the late 19th century and had vicious inter tribal warfare (the socially insensitive Christian missionaries put a a stop to that), but today, apart from tribal and family customs, they live pretty much the same as other Kiwians. My mother-in-law is even an Anglican (Episcopalean to thee) minister - her 32 year long prayers for my conversion have not yet been answered. I am still a staunch "pagan" to use her words and shall eventually be consumed by hell fire. If so, I am sure that I will be in the very best of company. I'd hate wings on my back and white does not suit my complexion anyway. cheers Peter P.S. to those simple souls out there. No, I am not anti-Christian either AND I'm directing my intercourse (No, damn it!!! I'm not gay either - look it up in the dictionary) at Larry and Joe. |
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* Peter Hendra wrote, On 4/28/2007 10:16 PM:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:07:51 +0000, Larry wrote: Peter Hendra wrote in : My wife's people (Maori's) in New Zealand Wow...lucky guy! Maori women are a truly beautiful set of genes...(c; Larry Correction Larry, Gene carriers - remember your Dawkins or do you wish chapter and verse. I'd have to look it up. If you like Dawkins (personally I think he is a pompous English prigg - but he may act differently to Americans. In Australia he was rather patronisingly superior to the colonials but it could also have been nervousness), you should like Gerard Diamond. The first book of his I read was "The Third Chimpanzee". I've enjoyed his books also. (Its Jared Diamond) Perhaps it is because my formal education was in Zoology that I find him interesting but I admit to being disappointed that he made no mention that North Americans have only descended from the trees more recently than the population in the Antipodes. ??? Are you claiming that Aborigines are an earlier branch of primates and not the same species as Homo Sapiens? (I'm sure you're joking here.) IIRC, he does go to some lengths to explain how the Antipodes were populated long before other parts of the world, and then isolated. I was hoping to find a scientific rationale for the American failure to appreciate really good coffee - straight black and strong (Hello Vic Smith) A century ago people throughout the US home roasted and thus drank quality coffee. Then the large companies started "improving" it, first with pre-ground, then percolators, and as the final insult, instant coffee. Instant was developed for the soldiers in WWII, where anything warm was appreciated. It unfortunately created a generation of Americans for whom percolator coffee is a step up. Then we suffered through a wave of flavored "gourmet" coffee, and now over-roasted, over-priced, milk based concoctions are in vogue. However, that said, there has been for the last 30 years a small but growing cadre of true coffee lovers in the US. In every area of the country there is a high quality roaster, producing coffee that is the equal of any in the world. Every city has several cafes that serve high quality coffee and European style espresso. Here's a roaster local to me: http://www.terroircoffee.com/ George Howell was the founder of Coffee Connection years ago, and more recently created the Cup of Excellence program, where small farmers are encouraged to produce the highest quality beans with country wide competitions and small lot auctions based on the results. Seriously though, he provides some thought provoking concepts that I know you will enjoy. From memory, he talks about conditioning for mate selection - pink painted mother rat's nipples causing the male offspring to prefer mating with females with similar painted nipples and a hoist of other thought provoking concepts. I know that you will enjoy it. If you cannot find a copy let me know and I shall send you one as a small payment for your valuable help.I have kept my copy and have bought copies for other people as I don't want to lend mine. Most of Jared Diamond's works are still in print and available at Amazon, etc. I found "The Third Chimp..." interesting, but a warmup from "Guns, Germs, and Steel" which goes into great detail in the question of why Western civilization evolved on a different track from Native American, and ultimately dominated. |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: He hasn't the time as he milks 180 dairy cows with electricity and a milking machine I was born and raised on a dairy farm in upstate New York. My grandfather milked 360 head of the biggest Holstein milk producers on the planet, 3 times a day. I, on the other hand, have more sense than to work 18 hours a day like he did most of his life. I do, though, have extensive experience running milk machines, bailing hay all summer, loading silos, unloading silos, feeding, shoveling sh*t and spreading it across pure snow all winter, to the delight of the crops planted in the spring.... Joining the Navy in 1964 was one good, politically-correct way out of the dairy business.....forever....(c; I didn't find out until I was in the Navy that you DIDN'T pour pure cream from Grandma's precious Guernsey's onto breakfast cereal! Those idiots were putting SUGAR on it! Very strange, city folks. They think "milk" has only 6% butterfat in it...which, to us farm boys, is like "skim milk"...(c; Larry -- Still supporting America's Dairy Farmers.....every day. |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: Gerard Diamond. The first book of his I read was "The Third Chimpanzee" I'll keep my eye open..... Prof Dawkins is just a typical college professor. Our math professor used to march into the room in the morning and announce, "Good morning, Inferiors." They don't have much behind those grey walls, you know..... I just think Dawkins is right. The earth IS older than 6000 years old, like Christians are teaching some really nice kids every day, here. I agree this stupidity taught in religious schools as fact is CHILD ABUSE. Larry -- |
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Peter Hendra wrote in
: Ocean mind you - was the VHF aerial. the question is - does the damned thing act as a lightning attractor as it is the highest thing there? Yes, it will. But, that's the best place for the best VHF coverage, unfortunately. Our main antenna got hit, so I moved both of the VHF antennas to an L bracket in the shadow of the shrouds down the side of the mast a ways. The VHF antennas are about 4' down the mast, out away from it about 24 inches between the mast and the shroud, sorta centered. It's always a compromise, but it seems to work as well there as it did on top, exposed to the blast. VHF only has to reach to the horizon, you know, as it's incapable of going further than that radio horizon just over the visual one. If it meets that requirement, it's fine. Larry -- |
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:53:07 +0000, Larry wrote:
Again, Thanks for this Larry. I shall do this also, tomorrow morning. It is only a matter of moving it down. The one that got hit just vapourised. The replacement I took off here to paint the mast - it was one of those clamp in wire ones. Spent two hours hunting for it and decided that it was cheaper to buy a new one. cheers Peter Peter Hendra wrote in : Ocean mind you - was the VHF aerial. the question is - does the damned thing act as a lightning attractor as it is the highest thing there? Yes, it will. But, that's the best place for the best VHF coverage, unfortunately. Our main antenna got hit, so I moved both of the VHF antennas to an L bracket in the shadow of the shrouds down the side of the mast a ways. The VHF antennas are about 4' down the mast, out away from it about 24 inches between the mast and the shroud, sorta centered. It's always a compromise, but it seems to work as well there as it did on top, exposed to the blast. VHF only has to reach to the horizon, you know, as it's incapable of going further than that radio horizon just over the visual one. If it meets that requirement, it's fine. Larry |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
I was born and raised on a dairy farm in upstate New York. My grandfather milked 360 head of the biggest Holstein milk producers on the planet, 3 times a day. I, on the other hand, have more sense than to work 18 hours a day like he did most of his life. I do, though, have extensive experience running milk machines, bailing hay all summer, loading silos, unloading silos, feeding, shoveling sh*t and spreading it across pure snow all winter, to the delight of the crops planted in the spring.... Joining the Navy in 1964 was one good, politically-correct way out of the dairy business.....forever....(c; I didn't find out until I was in the Navy that you DIDN'T pour pure cream from Grandma's precious Guernsey's onto breakfast cereal! Those idiots were putting SUGAR on it! Very strange, city folks. They think "milk" has only 6% butterfat in it...which, to us farm boys, is like "skim milk"...(c; Larry Wow! And I thought that all American kids lived in cities and didn't realise that milk came from cows but was just another factory product - there were/are 9 year old kids in South Auckland (N.Z.) who thought so as well. I too lived on several farms as a kid and did as you did but we never milked 3 times a day. N.Z. mainly had Jerseys (high milk fat content and lovely natured) and Fresians (similar or same as Holsteins - with high volume). As the farms I lived on took their milk to the local cheese/butter factory in cans, in the morning, before stirring them up, we would skim some of the settled cream off the top of and take it back to be heated - clotted cream. As the winters are mild in God's own we never used silos but stored bailed hay in open sided barns, grew feed crops for "break feeding" in the winter such as green maize, choumolier (sp?), turnips, swedes and mangolds (the least three beet crops). We also made ensilage - made by stacking cut undried grass or green maize (plants and all) in a heap and excluding the air - fermented and smelled a bit like sauerkraut. This would be fed out by pitchfork on the back of a tractor. No barns either so no alimentary wastes to shovel out apart from the washdown sump in the milking shed every couple of years. We would just use chain harrows to disintergrate and spread out the cow pats. Even though the farm families got paid handsomely by the government for my upkeep, I still had to work just the same as the other farm kids which i am glad of now. Sigh! Memories. feeding chooks (laying hens), collecting and cleaning **** off eggs, making hay throughout the night because of impending rain - so tired that I was found asleep in the full bath with my overalls on, going to school on the school bus and managing to "cop a fe--" from the early developer good time girl on the way, smell of cut hay, training my own farm dog to fetch the cows "Get away back Flo", going to stock sales and best of all, looking over my shoulder in the dawn from the cow shed at the first light turning the snow cap on the dormant volcano, Mount Taranaki a deep purple. (Google it - it is a more perfect cone than is Fuji in Japan and doesn't have the heaps of consumer rubbish up its flanks). Even now, when I hear the Rock group "Deep Purple", I visualise that mountain. - I mentioned that N.Z. was God's Own country didn't I? You're right of course. Most of the brighter farm raised kids left for either education or jobs elsewhere. It was the town kids who packed the agricultural classes at high school. Tried to tell about to dropout University friends of the Hippie era that farming, and in particular subsistance farming, was damned hard work, but they had too many stars in their eyes and thought they would sit back and watch everthing grow while they lay in hammocks under a verandah smoking good ol' Coromandel Green. Couldn't afford to drop out myself. I was trying desperately to drop in. Oh yes! The rules. On one farm I biult a stringers over plywood framed and canvas and enamel paint 12 foot canoe from a magazine at school - can't remember it but it was American - "Practical something or other". The hardest part of building the BOAT was in the translation of the text to English. My God, I must be old. All of this was so long ago. cheers Peter |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:47:56 +0000, Larry wrote:
Peter Hendra wrote in : Gerard Diamond. The first book of his I read was "The Third Chimpanzee" I'll keep my eye open..... Prof Dawkins is just a typical college professor. Our math professor used to march into the room in the morning and announce, "Good morning, Inferiors." They don't have much behind those grey walls, you know..... I just think Dawkins is right. The earth IS older than 6000 years old, like Christians are teaching some really nice kids every day, here. I agree this stupidity taught in religious schools as fact is CHILD ABUSE. Larry I was lucky at university to have a developmental Zoology professor who appeared to be all the wrong things (to callow, know it all youths and youthesses). Pat was single, post 50 and a Presbytarian Deaconess with a form belief in God who lived at home with her aged Mother. For some reason she took a liking to me and we developed a friendship - no nothing untoward. She still had that childlike entusiasm for knowledge that people tend to lose by their late teens. We would go diving for specimens - well, she would be in the dinghy wikth the oars whilst I dived below and we would later pore (sp?) over them in the lab. She was working on intelligence in mice resulting from the food they ate - ran them through mazes and found that they performed best on their food of preference - millet soaked in milk. Forgive me, I digree again. When I asked her how she conciled her belief in a divine being who created everything with evolutionary theory she responded that the more she learned about evolution, the more it stengthened her belief in a divine being. It's one way of looking at it. Personally, I don't dwell much on the question as it is patenly obvious that evolution is progressing about us on a daily basis if we would only open our eyes. At the risk of an vehement and irate outburst from some, I fear not only radical Islamic fundametalism, but the Christian one as well. This doctrinal brainwashing that poses as education that is emerging more rampantly now is something to worry about. You should read the last book of the New Testament - "Revelation" about the 'last days' and the second coming of Jesus - they all do. Quite frightening really. Galileo with his trial and house arrest until his death would feel right at home. cheers., and hopefully I'll be dead before they gain political control. Peter |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:47:56 +0000, Larry wrote:
I just think Dawkins is right. The earth IS older than 6000 years old, like Christians are teaching some really nice kids every day, here. I agree this stupidity taught in religious schools as fact is CHILD ABUSE. Larry I am sure that it was one of m favourite Uncles, Mark Twain, who said that "Satan hasn't a single paid helper; the opposition employs millions" cheers Peter |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Peter Hendra wrote in
: As the winters are mild in God's own we never used silos but stored bailed hay in open sided barns, grew feed crops for "break feeding" in the winter such as green maize, I've spread manure across snow behind the tractor when it was -40F on a COLD winter's morning. We had a canvas tarp on both sides of the old John Deere's engine compartment so the "cooling" air from the fan behind the radiator would blow in your face to keep your hands from freezing to the steering wheel. The tractor I drove was of WW2 vintage when gasoline was strictly rationed. It ran on kerosene, not gasoline, even though it had spark plugs. To start it, you built a fire under the carburetter (Did I still spell that right in Queen's English?) and boiled the kerosene to vaporize it for consumption before the exhaust manifold was hot enough to keep it boiling when the engine was hot. Then, you opened both cylinder petcocks to relieve the pressure so you could rock the big flywheel back and forth, finally building up enough momentum in the heavy flywheel to shove it over the TDC of the piston, praying THIS time was a charm and it would fire! After several tries, she'd come to life making an awful racket with fire spewing out those petcocks until you got around to quickly close them and raise the compression back up to ?? 5:1??...hee hee. Once started, it would be left running all day until you were completely done with it and parked it back INSIDE the barn with the WARM cows to keep it from freezing solid until spring...ready to start it at 5AM once the milking was almost done. If the power went down, we also had a leather belt-driven alternator, about 8KW, that would run off the old John Deere's outer clutch housing, which spun the belt (and anything else that caught it) when you engaged the big clutch lever, even in neutral. When the snow brought the power lines down, that tractor powered the whole farm for a week, 24 hours a day pulling on that belt. I can still hear that rhythmic John Deere 2-cylinder thumping, 50 years later....(c; I'm pushing 62 in January. Just like the rest of the "almost Altzheimers" patients, I can remember that tractor.....Now, if I could just remember where the damned truck keys are located....(c; Larry -- |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Peter Hendra wrote in
: She was working on intelligence in mice resulting from the food they ate - ran them through mazes and found that they performed best on their food of preference - millet soaked in milk. Forgive me, I digree again. I have a boating friend, Kay, the other half of a friend who used to own a Hatteras 56 FBMY they lived on when I met them. Kay is paid big money by the Medical University of SC, Department of Alcoholism (I think it's called) to make hamsters drunk on booze to see what happens to them. Dan, her husband, is Head of Oncology Research and has 5 PhDs. They are two of the sweetest people I know. Tired of toting their lives down the dock, they sold the Hat...dammit, right after I almost got everything working...and moved to a mansion in Mt Pleasant across the new bridge. After a series of custom Corvettes, Cadillac Escalades (that wouldn't fit under the roof of the MUSC parking garage), and an incredible 1800cc Honda customized motorcycle, they bought a massive diesel pusher motorhome. Last year they ordered a custom-made bigger motorhome to their personal taste. I haven't seen it, yet. The "old motorhome" was a palace on wheels....however, I don't know where you park a motorhome that's BIGGER than a Greyhound Super Scenic Cruiser intercity bus....??? Kay's job has always caused me to chuckle.....especially after Dan and I have had a few beers down in the big Hatteras' engine rooms....hee hee. After they sold the boat, she told him and I she was going to buy us a Detroit Diesel 8V92TA twin turbocharger engine on a stand to run in the garage so we wouldn't look so forlorn on Saturdays with nothing to tear apart....and make horrendous noises....(c; I'm not sure his rich neighbors would understand. They certainly didn't like the MUFFLERLESS Honda 1800CC twin beast roaring around... I didn't think it made any more noise than the Langenfelder Corvette he had just because G Gordon Liddy, of Watergate fame, had one. Larry -- |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Peter Hendra wrote in
: I am sure that it was one of m favourite Uncles, Mark Twain, who said that "Satan hasn't a single paid helper; the opposition employs millions" cheers Peter I have a picture of Mark Twain, one of Nikola Tesla's favorite friends, holding a lit flourescent tube in his hand in Tesla's workshop with no wires....(c; The picture is on the net. Larry -- |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
Hi Jeff,
I've enjoyed his books also. (Its Jared Diamond) Yes, I stand corrected - honestly, sometimes I cannot remember my wife's first name when I introduce her to people - I never address her by it myelf. Perhaps it is because my formal education was in Zoology that I find him interesting but I admit to being disappointed that he made no mention that North Americans have only descended from the trees more recently than the population in the Antipodes. ??? Are you claiming that Aborigines are an earlier branch of primates and not the same species as Homo Sapiens? (I'm sure you're joking here.) I was indeed jesting. I intended to portray that we (all peoples of the Antipodes) were higher, more developed and more sophisticated forms of being due to our greater familiarity with espresso coffee. Neither the Australian Aborigines nor the New Zealand Maori crossed my mind. If they had perchance attempted to do so, they would have become hopelessly lost as I myself do sometimes during thought. A century ago people throughout the US home roasted and thus drank quality coffee. Then the large companies started "improving" it, first with pre-ground, then percolators, and as the final insult, instant coffee. Instant was developed for the soldiers in WWII, where anything warm was appreciated. It unfortunately created a generation of Americans for whom percolator coffee is a step up. Then we suffered through a wave of flavored "gourmet" coffee, and now over-roasted, over-priced, milk based concoctions are in vogue. As a general statement, during my childhood, only we Greeks in New Zealand drank coffee - not espresso but the heat and wait for the mud to settle type. But we were Wogs and had wierd dining habits such as the eating of squid and octopus, eating rotten milk (yoghurt), cooking in olive oil instead of beef fat and prefering wine to beer. Everyone else, being of English origin, drank tea - brewed/ stewed in a teapot. The reason for the popularity of espresso coffee machines in Australia - the cities especially, was due to the huge influx of Italian migrants after WWII. as Australia could not get enough of the prefered northern Europeans to come. However, that said, there has been for the last 30 years a small but growing cadre of true coffee lovers in the US. In every area of the country there is a high quality roaster, producing coffee that is the equal of any in the world. Every city has several cafes that serve high quality coffee and European style espresso. Here's a roaster local to me: http://www.terroircoffee.com/ George Howell was the founder of Coffee Connection years ago, and more recently created the Cup of Excellence program, where small farmers are encouraged to produce the highest quality beans with country wide competitions and small lot auctions based on the results. Thanks. An interesting site. I had heard of programmes like this in countries such as Costa Rica where small famers are resisting growing Cocaine crops. They are being encouraged to grow high quality, high value specialist coffee crops. I know that I would pay extra if I knew that it was in a good cause. Most of Jared Diamond's works are still in print and available at Amazon, etc. I found "The Third Chimp..." interesting, but a warmup from "Guns, Germs, and Steel" which goes into great detail in the question of why Western civilization evolved on a different track from Native American, and ultimately dominated. Yes, I enjoyed that book also. cheers Peter |
Ping Larry: Sintered Bronze
"Larry" wrote in message ... I've spread manure across snow behind the tractor when it was -40F on a COLD winter's morning. We had a canvas tarp on both sides of the old John Deere's engine compartment so the "cooling" air from the fan behind the radiator would blow in your face to keep your hands from freezing to the steering wheel. snip............. Larry -- Yeah, yeah...and you walked 20 miles to school...uphill both ways! |
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