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Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet
another mass killing in America. I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor taste. Wilbur, and those others of you who support your "constitutional right to bear arms" consider this as an example of why you should not make owning hand guns so easy. I could have bought any weapon during my 5 day sojourn in Florida recently. A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that Americans seem to prefer, explained that after three days of making an application I could walk out of a store with any type of weapon I desired, even an M-16 which is standard issue to Malaysian Customs. Why a citizen would want such a weapon is beyond me. They are not a hunting rifle. They are an offensive, not defensive weapon for killing people. In New Zealand, it is illegal and virtually impossible for anyone to possess a hand gun. The police do not even carry weapons. Most do not even bother to carry their batons. They have access to them when required as well as training in their use, but the armed offenders squads seldom shoot to kill; they usually disable the offender by shooting the legs. Don't think that we don't have violent crime and robberies in God's Own, we do. It's just that the criminals generally don't have access to handguns. If procuring one was as easy as in the U.S., then no doubt the situation would be diferent. We also have a law that makes it an imprisonable offence (at the worst) if a citizen does not go to the aid of a policeman who requests it or who fails to help if they see a policeman in trouble. Our police are also well trained in unarmed defence. At 16 I acquired a licence to own a rifle which I used to hunt deer, pigs and goats in our forests. You cannot have an automatic weapon, there is no need for this in hunting. Handguns are made to kill human beings, not rabbits or other species. The Virginia Tech. killer used two pistols, one a 9mm automatic. I have one of these as part of my uniform. It usually is kept locked in a desk drawer. My belt holster is a good place for cigarettes. After the initial cocking, each pull of the trigger will fire a bullet and with 15 bullets to a clip, you can shoot them all in about 15 seconds. Why would a private citizen need a weapon like that? In Malaysia it is a capital offence to possess an unlicenced firearm. Robbers must therefore resort to knives. I am a loss to understand how you can be so strident in defence of your "constituational right" to carry a firearm when you didn't even raise a murmur at the Patriot Act which removes more of your rights and freedoms. Frankly, I would be afraid to live in a country where any psycopath or inadequate person could pull out a gun and "get even" with me over some minor imagined slight, but then I have issues with those wanabe Rambos who aim paintball guns at other humans. I know that this is off-topic but I wanted to express my saddness. cheers Peter Hendra |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
It struck me hard enough to break my on topic rule because I lived there
until I was seven and my earliest memories are of that campus and walking up the steps of a building that looks just like the ones on the news to visit my father in his office. All those innocent early memories will now be tinged with this. It's interesting to contemplate what the government's reaction would have been if a muslim fundementalist had done this. Another roll back in civil liberties is necessary to protect Americans. The amount of shampoo permitted in carry on airline luggage will need to be further reduced. Only Republicans can protect Americans from this kind of carnage. Etc, etc. Instead, there will just be purring agreement from the White House with National Rifle Association statements due any moment now to the effect that, if every student had been issued a gun upon admission, nothing like this could have happened. -- Roger Long |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Huum,, you mention Muslim Fundementalist, the Republicans, and the NRA ..
Wait ,, didn't you leave someone out ? The SHOOTER .. THE NUTCASE WHO KILLED THE KIDS .. THE GUY WITH THE GUN! This happens every single day in Iraq. EVERY DAY! Yet,, I have never seen one posting from you Roger or Peter concerning the kids of Iraq. What? Guess their parents don't care if they die? This kind of thing could be stopped today. Want gun? Must have license. If you are arrested with gun; 3 years in jail at hard labor as in clean the streets. If you sell gun, and gun kills someone, you go to jail. I am talking illegal guns. Rather than blame George Bush for this ask the questions: where did the shooter get the gun? who was the shooter? how did the shooter get into America? was there a background check on the shooter before he was accepted to the college? When will the government stop illegal immigration? How many of the illegals have guns? But .. I guess it is much easier to blame George Bush for this. Yup,, Bush's fault. He did it. By the way, when Ted Kennedy left a woman to die in his car ... was it Bush's fault? ================================================== ========== "Roger Long" wrote in message ... It struck me hard enough to break my on topic rule because I lived there until I was seven and my earliest memories are of that campus and walking up the steps of a building that looks just like the ones on the news to visit my father in his office. All those innocent early memories will now be tinged with this. It's interesting to contemplate what the government's reaction would have been if a muslim fundementalist had done this. Another roll back in civil liberties is necessary to protect Americans. The amount of shampoo permitted in carry on airline luggage will need to be further reduced. Only Republicans can protect Americans from this kind of carnage. Etc, etc. Instead, there will just be purring agreement from the White House with National Rifle Association statements due any moment now to the effect that, if every student had been issued a gun upon admission, nothing like this could have happened. -- Roger Long |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote:
I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snip Approx. 30,000 people die from being shot with handguns in the US every year. Evidently this is not any sort of pressing public health issue in the former land of the free. They love their guns and are propagandized from childhood into thinking they _need_ them to be safe. Handguns are strictly regulated in Canada. Not surprisingly, the per capita rate of handgun murders in Canada is infinitessimal compared with that of the US. However we had a similar event here in Montreal where a disturbed individual used a long rifle to kill a number of students. Long rifles aren't so strictly controlled here. As a result, they're used more often in murders. But overall, the murder rate in Canada does not correlate at all on a per capita basis with the US. Gun advocates will say that it was the disturbed person who did the killing and not the weapon. This of course is intellectually bankrupt but despite that, has great currency in the US. If the person can't get the weapon, how then do they commit the murder? Of course Timothy McVeigh didn't need a gun did he? Goes around in circles eh? Personally I want handguns banned but for police use. This shooting is an obscene tragedy. We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
"Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snipp It takes a real piece of **** to use the death of so many young people and to have as their primary concern, not sympathy or a word of understanding and support for the survivors and loved ones of the deceased, but pushing a socialist political agenda. You disgust me as much as the gunman disgusts me. Wilbur Hubbard |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 6:57 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor taste. Wilbur, and those others of you who support your "constitutional right to bear arms" consider this as an example of why you should not make owning hand guns so easy. I could have bought any weapon during my 5 day sojourn in Florida recently. A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that Americans seem to prefer, explained that after three days of making an application I could walk out of a store with any type of weapon I desired, even an M-16 which is standard issue to Malaysian Customs. Why a citizen would want such a weapon is beyond me. They are not a hunting rifle. They are an offensive, not defensive weapon for killing people. In New Zealand, it is illegal and virtually impossible for anyone to possess a hand gun. The police do not even carry weapons. Most do not even bother to carry their batons. They have access to them when required as well as training in their use, but the armed offenders squads seldom shoot to kill; they usually disable the offender by shooting the legs. Don't think that we don't have violent crime and robberies in God's Own, we do. It's just that the criminals generally don't have access to handguns. If procuring one was as easy as in the U.S., then no doubt the situation would be diferent. We also have a law that makes it an imprisonable offence (at the worst) if a citizen does not go to the aid of a policeman who requests it or who fails to help if they see a policeman in trouble. Our police are also well trained in unarmed defence. At 16 I acquired a licence to own a rifle which I used to hunt deer, pigs and goats in our forests. You cannot have an automatic weapon, there is no need for this in hunting. Handguns are made to kill human beings, not rabbits or other species. The Virginia Tech. killer used two pistols, one a 9mm automatic. I have one of these as part of my uniform. It usually is kept locked in a desk drawer. My belt holster is a good place for cigarettes. After the initial cocking, each pull of the trigger will fire a bullet and with 15 bullets to a clip, you can shoot them all in about 15 seconds. Why would a private citizen need a weapon like that? In Malaysia it is a capital offence to possess an unlicenced firearm. Robbers must therefore resort to knives. I am a loss to understand how you can be so strident in defence of your "constituational right" to carry a firearm when you didn't even raise a murmur at the Patriot Act which removes more of your rights and freedoms. Frankly, I would be afraid to live in a country where any psycopath or inadequate person could pull out a gun and "get even" with me over some minor imagined slight, but then I have issues with those wanabe Rambos who aim paintball guns at other humans. I know that this is off-topic but I wanted to express my saddness. cheers Peter Hendra Peter, With all due respect Tim McVei, the Oklahoma Bombers mass murder was commited with diesel and fertilizer. Should we ban fuel and fertilizer? Also I hear the 9mm had the serial numbers removed, so gun control would not have done anything to prevent this wacko from aquiring the weapon. On May 18, 1927, in what became known as the Bath School disaster, Andrew Kehoe, a cash-strapped farmer and local school board member killed his wife, bombed every building on his farm before explosives he had secretly hidden under the school building located in the central business district went off. He later drove to the school in a truck rigged with more explosives which he detonated next to the school superintendent. In all, Kehoe killed 44 people and himself, in the worst school violence in U.S. history. Only half of the 1000 lb (450 kg) of explosives set under the school went off, probably greatly lowering the death toll. Thirty-eight out of the 314 students, three teachers, the superintendent, the postmaster and a local farmer assisting at the scene were killed. Most of the dead were students from second to sixth grade. Fifty-eight others were injured. You can many many more examples of mass murder by people not using guns. Ever hear the old saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" Joe |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed
individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent. ===================================== The "gunman" is from China. Could it be that the soy sauce is bad? Or, too much rice? Or .. just maybe ??? He was NUTS. =========================================== I forgot .. there are no nuts in Canada.. ===================================== "mr.b" wrote in message ... On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snip Approx. 30,000 people die from being shot with handguns in the US every year. Evidently this is not any sort of pressing public health issue in the former land of the free. They love their guns and are propagandized from childhood into thinking they _need_ them to be safe. Handguns are strictly regulated in Canada. Not surprisingly, the per capita rate of handgun murders in Canada is infinitessimal compared with that of the US. However we had a similar event here in Montreal where a disturbed individual used a long rifle to kill a number of students. Long rifles aren't so strictly controlled here. As a result, they're used more often in murders. But overall, the murder rate in Canada does not correlate at all on a per capita basis with the US. Gun advocates will say that it was the disturbed person who did the killing and not the weapon. This of course is intellectually bankrupt but despite that, has great currency in the US. If the person can't get the weapon, how then do they commit the murder? Of course Timothy McVeigh didn't need a gun did he? Goes around in circles eh? Personally I want handguns banned but for police use. This shooting is an obscene tragedy. We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
snip " This shooting is an obscene tragedy. We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent." And that's why the good folks ought to have access to the tools to defend themselves. Doesn't do much good to call 911 when the shots are being fired. The police typically arrive after the shooting is over with and then try and figure out the who/what/why/where stuff. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:59:29 -0700, erps wrote:
snip " This shooting is an obscene tragedy. We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent." And that's why the good folks ought to have access to the tools to defend themselves. Doesn't do much good to call 911 when the shots are being fired. The police typically arrive after the shooting is over with and then try and figure out the who/what/why/where stuff. QED |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 8:50 am, "mr.b" wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snip Approx. 30,000 people die from being shot with handguns in the US every year. Evidently this is not any sort of pressing public health issue in the former land of the free. Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001. Total U.S. troop deaths in Iraq as of last week were reported at 2,863. Total U.S. troop deaths in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan during the five years of the Afghan campaign are currently at 289, according to the Department of Defense. big Macs hate & blame america rant snipped Joe |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
NE Sailboat wrote:
We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent. ===================================== The "gunman" is from China. Could it be that the soy sauce is bad? Or, too much rice? Or .. just maybe ??? He was NUTS. =========================================== I forgot .. there are no nuts in Canada.. ===================================== Did you read what the other guy posted? We've had shootings here. The École Polytechnique here in Montréal. 14 female engineering students shot dead in their seats. Why do you turn this into some retarded rant about foreigners? If the nuts in either country can't get the guns, it makes it harder for them to commit mass murder. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor taste. Wilbur, and those others of you who support your "constitutional right to bear arms" consider this as an example of why you should not make owning hand guns so easy. I could have bought any weapon during my 5 day sojourn in Florida recently. A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that Americans seem to prefer, explained that after three days of making an application I could walk out of a store with any type of weapon I desired, even an M-16 which is standard issue to Malaysian Customs. Why a citizen would want such a weapon is beyond me. They are not a hunting rifle. They are an offensive, not defensive weapon for killing people. In New Zealand, it is illegal and virtually impossible for anyone to possess a hand gun. The police do not even carry weapons. Most do not even bother to carry their batons. They have access to them when required as well as training in their use, but the armed offenders squads seldom shoot to kill; they usually disable the offender by shooting the legs. Don't think that we don't have violent crime and robberies in God's Own, we do. It's just that the criminals generally don't have access to handguns. If procuring one was as easy as in the U.S., then no doubt the situation would be diferent. We also have a law that makes it an imprisonable offence (at the worst) if a citizen does not go to the aid of a policeman who requests it or who fails to help if they see a policeman in trouble. Our police are also well trained in unarmed defence. At 16 I acquired a licence to own a rifle which I used to hunt deer, pigs and goats in our forests. You cannot have an automatic weapon, there is no need for this in hunting. Handguns are made to kill human beings, not rabbits or other species. The Virginia Tech. killer used two pistols, one a 9mm automatic. I have one of these as part of my uniform. It usually is kept locked in a desk drawer. My belt holster is a good place for cigarettes. After the initial cocking, each pull of the trigger will fire a bullet and with 15 bullets to a clip, you can shoot them all in about 15 seconds. Why would a private citizen need a weapon like that? In Malaysia it is a capital offence to possess an unlicenced firearm. Robbers must therefore resort to knives. I am a loss to understand how you can be so strident in defence of your "constituational right" to carry a firearm when you didn't even raise a murmur at the Patriot Act which removes more of your rights and freedoms. Frankly, I would be afraid to live in a country where any psycopath or inadequate person could pull out a gun and "get even" with me over some minor imagined slight, but then I have issues with those wanabe Rambos who aim paintball guns at other humans. I know that this is off-topic but I wanted to express my saddness. cheers Peter Hendra Peter my man, You are making Malaysia sound like some sort of utopia.. No guns so all the bad people have to resort to kitchen knives and bearing scrappers. Maybe years ago but not in recent times. I frequently read, in the Straits Times, of criminals in Malaysia with pistols, the last was a Singaporian bloke called "Mad dog", got caught last summer in a hotel with two or three pistols. However, the guns were not in the same room as Mad dog when the good guys came calling and the Malaysian Police ruled that they couldn't prove that the gun's were actually in Mad dog's possession...;. So they repatriated him to Singapore where he was wanted for murder. "Frankly I would be afraid to live in a country .... Care to comment on what language "Amok" belongs to? And, as a scion of the empire you probably know that in jolly old Blighty where they have some draconian gun laws the villains are turning to guns more and more. I agree with you that the shooting was a bad thing but as you say I do have a constitutional right to bear arms. It is probably O.T. but I can tell you that outlawing firearms has not ever, anywhere, denied guns to criminals. I believe that you were a Malaysian Customs Officer so you probably know about the arms shipments from Cambodia to Indonesia? "War Weapons" were illegal in Indonesia the last time I looked. I could go on and on, New York "Sullivan Law" passed in 1920-something outlawing unregistered pistols, hasn't bothered the bad guys a bit, the guy in Australia that shot that woman's boyfriend out in the bush. And on and on. But enough. Cheers for now. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 9:53 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snipp It takes a real piece of **** to use the death of so many young people and to have as their primary concern, not sympathy or a word of understanding and support for the survivors and loved ones of the deceased, but pushing a socialist political agenda. You disgust me as much as the gunman disgusts me. Wilbur Hubbard Peter writes a thoughtful post with compassion and understanding, illustrates with specific examples of what he sees as wrong in our gun-happy society, gives suggestions on how we can curb violence in the US, and backs up his claims with compelling evidence of how strict gun control laws greatly reduce violence in other countries. In response Wilbur calls Peter "a real piece of ****" and doesn't even try to refute his statements. Wilbur, you have just exposed yourself as a total asshole. Now maybe Peter realizes what we are up against in this country. Steve Foy |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 9:53 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snipp It takes a real piece of **** to use the death of so many young people and to have as their primary concern, not sympathy or a word of understanding and support for the survivors and loved ones of the deceased, but pushing a socialist political agenda. You disgust me as much as the gunman disgusts me. Wilbur Hubbard Peter writes a thoughtful post with compassion and understanding, illustrates with specific examples of what he sees as wrong in our gun-happy society, gives suggestions on how we can curb violence in the US, and backs up his claims with compelling evidence of how strict gun control laws greatly reduce violence in other countries. In response Wilbur calls Peter "a real piece of ****" and doesn't even try to refute his statements. Wilbur, you have just exposed yourself as a total asshole. This is exactly what's wrong with this country- way too many assholes like Wilbur. Steve Foy |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
I just learned that the house behind a pond being shown in some of the
newscasts is the house where I lived from age 2 to 7. I'm glad I missed it. I'd like to keep those memories as far from all this as possible. -- Roger Long |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
* Joe wrote, On 4/17/2007 10:16 AM:
.... Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001. As usual, Joe repeats bogus "statistics" as though they are facts. While its true the Steve King made that comment, he did not release any actual statistics or reference any study. It appears that he simply made up the number for shock appeal. The quote has been frequently repeated in the conservative press as a "study" but no study is actually mentioned. The number can be shown to be false simply by looking at the total number of Hispanics arrested for murder in California (one of the states where these statistics are kept). Even if they were all illegals, it still would not add up. In fact, the "12 a day" number roughly equals the total number of white and Hispanics arrested for murder each year. In other words, Rep King is claiming that all murders by non-blacks were by illegal aliens. That's quite a stretch! Of course, King may have some secret information that all unsolved murders in the country were actually perpetrated by illegal aliens, but its easier to believe that he just made up the numbers. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article ,
Roger Long wrote: It struck me hard enough to break my on topic rule because I lived there until I was seven and my earliest memories are of that campus and walking up the steps of a building that looks just like the ones on the news to visit my father in his office. All those innocent early memories will now be tinged with this. It's interesting to contemplate what the government's reaction would have been if a muslim fundementalist had done this. Another roll back in civil liberties is necessary to protect Americans. The amount of shampoo permitted in carry on airline luggage will need to be further reduced. Only Republicans can protect Americans from this kind of carnage. Etc, etc. Instead, there will just be purring agreement from the White House with National Rifle Association statements due any moment now to the effect that, if every student had been issued a gun upon admission, nothing like this could have happened. Here, here. Thank you. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article om,
wrote: snip " This shooting is an obscene tragedy. We need to admit that something in our society is producing disturbed individuals who will use too easily available lethal weapons to kill the innocent." And that's why the good folks ought to have access to the tools to defend themselves. Doesn't do much good to call 911 when the shots are being fired. The police typically arrive after the shooting is over with and then try and figure out the who/what/why/where stuff. We could start with the most important tool of all... our brains. Sadly, it's easier to just mouth the same bs about our "Constitutional right" to own a gun. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article .com,
wrote: Peter writes a thoughtful post with compassion and understanding, illustrates with specific examples of what he sees as wrong in our gun-happy society, gives suggestions on how we can curb violence in the US, and backs up his claims with compelling evidence of how strict gun control laws greatly reduce violence in other countries. In response Wilbur calls Peter "a real piece of ****" and doesn't even try to refute his statements. Wilbur, you have just exposed yourself as a total asshole. Now maybe Peter realizes what we are up against in this country. Fortunately, most people in the US are not like Neal Warren, troll of asa. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
And that's why the good folks ought to have access to the tools to defend themselves. Doesn't do much good to call 911 when the shots are being fired. The police typically arrive after the shooting is over with and then try and figure out the who/what/why/where stuff. We could start with the most important tool of all... our brains. Sadly, it's easier to just mouth the same bs about our "Constitutional right" to own a gun. -- Capt. JG Brains didn't help the victims much in this case. Capt JG, if one of your family members had been in the classroom and there was another student or teacher there with the ability to engage this murderer, would you want them to or not? Whether it's a constitutional right or not, the right of self defense is often recognized as a natural right and a right not given by the constitution but recognized and preserved by the constitution. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article .com,
wrote: And that's why the good folks ought to have access to the tools to defend themselves. Doesn't do much good to call 911 when the shots are being fired. The police typically arrive after the shooting is over with and then try and figure out the who/what/why/where stuff. We could start with the most important tool of all... our brains. Sadly, it's easier to just mouth the same bs about our "Constitutional right" to own a gun. -- Capt. JG Brains didn't help the victims much in this case. Capt JG, if one of your family members had been in the classroom and there was another student or teacher there with the ability to engage this murderer, would you want them to or not? Whether it's a constitutional right or not, the right of self defense is often recognized as a natural right and a right not given by the constitution but recognized and preserved by the constitution. The brians of the victims weren't the brains I was speaking about. We need to have stricter control over the access to weapons. If you don't have easy access, you don't have to have a gun to defend yourself. It's easy to make it a personal case, and if my family or I were in jeapordy, of course, I'd want to be able to defend myself, but society does not benefit from easy access. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
|
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article , the_bmac wrote:
wrote: Brains didn't help the victims much in this case. Capt JG, if one of your family members had been in the classroom and there was another student or teacher there with the ability to engage this murderer, Are you seriously suggesting that it would be alright for everyone, students and teachers included, in a school, to be carrying guns? This is utter madness. This is what makes America great. That and cheeseburgers of course. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
In article ,
Rick B. wrote: On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. If the 33 dead people had not been following the VTI policy of not allowing handguns on campus, less of them would be dead. It is not illegal to have a handgun in Virginia, but school policy forbade them on campus. Too bad, one person ignores the policy and 33 following it are dead. Life is too short to follow stupid rules. Right on. I always bring my bazooka when I go sailing, especially on paid charters. If the CG gets too close (or any other vessel), I brandish it. To hell with the stupid rules. FYI, I was talking about bubblegum. g -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
* Rick B. wrote, On 4/17/2007 2:45 PM:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. If the 33 dead people had not been following the VTI policy of not allowing handguns on campus, less of them would be dead. It is not illegal to have a handgun in Virginia, but school policy forbade them on campus. Too bad, one person ignores the policy and 33 following it are dead. Life is too short to follow stupid rules. The real question is, if all campuses allowed handguns at all times, would there be more or less killing? I know some here believe, as my swat team friend says, "An armed society is a polite society," but have have serious doubts that this would really work with kids. I certainly wouldn't let my kid go to a campus if I thought a significant number of the students were packing. BTW, my policeman friend is not against moderate gun control, as a way of limiting the number and type of weapons out there. But he says that the strict laws here in Boston don't prevent gangs from simply taking a road trip to VA and NC anytime they want to replenish their arsenal. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 17, 9:53 am, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. snipp It takes a real piece of **** to use the death of so many young people and to have as their primary concern, not sympathy or a word of understanding and support for the survivors and loved ones of the deceased, but pushing a socialist political agenda. You disgust me as much as the gunman disgusts me. Wilbur Hubbard Peter writes a thoughtful post with compassion and understanding, illustrates with specific examples of what he sees as wrong in our gun-happy society, gives suggestions on how we can curb violence in the US, and backs up his claims with compelling evidence of how strict gun control laws greatly reduce violence in other countries. In response Wilbur calls Peter "a real piece of ****" and doesn't even try to refute his statements. Wilbur, you have just exposed yourself as a total asshole. Now maybe Peter realizes what we are up against in this country. Steve Foy You don't get it either. How crass, how callous, how obscene is the fact that certain people use a murderous rampage where real people die. Innocent college students and at least one professor, if the reports are accurate. Where is Peter's sense of pity, understanding and sympathy for those who died so tragically and those survivors who are mourning their loss? Peter has none. Peter could care less about the victims. Instead, Peter, like any other socialists only sees an opportunity to advance his political agenda on the backs of the victims. He uses the dead to further his agenda. That's sick, disgusting, sub-human and inexcusable. Peter is a piece of **** and you are just another pile of crap yourself to support his sordid behavior. Peter said he wanted to express his sadness. Peter is a liar. He spent no time at all expressing his sadness. But, he did spend all his time pushing a socialist political agenda. Peter wrote: "I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor taste." Yet, Peter doesn't seem to think it's in poor taste to use the recently murdered to advance his political agenda. If a joke about religious terrorism is an affront, I have to wonder why seriousness about a political agenda isn't also an affront under these circumstances. Any way you look at it Peter is scum. Any way you look at it, other liberals who don't get this point are also scum. Maybe one of your loved ones will get murdered by some insane person one of these days. I hope a bunch of liberals jump on the fact of that innocent death to further their agenda. Give you some of your own medicine. See how you like having the value of your loved one's life diminished by using it to further some political agenda. As for you,Steve, go **** yourself, too. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur Hubbard |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Boston eh?
You got a killing every other day in the Black neighborhoods of Boston. Recently, one Black girl was shot in the middle of the day. Ever see any of the yachtsman here post about that? Nope,, can't be bothered. The whole gun thing is so nutty it is hard to even discuss it. I don't own a gun. But a friend of mine is an advid gun owner and hunter. He is without a doubt the most environmentally aware person I know. He cares about the earth, the air, the wild animals. Yet the "experts" here are calling him a nazi. Isn't there a law in Florida that if someone uses a gun while doing a crime, it is automatically a 10 year prison sentence? I probably have that wrong but it is something like that. That law should be made Federal. If you use a gun to commit a crime, 10 years; no ifs, ands, buts, plea deals, nothing. And ,, if you are caught selling a gun illegally ... 15 years behind bars.. no ands, ifs, buts, plea deals, nothing. When the crime and punishment is tough, the criminals will get the message.. and that means the guy who would sell a gun. Ask yourself :: would you sell a gun to someone if you knew that you will go to jail if that person goes across the street to the police station and says "he sold me this gun" and you are going away for 15 years. No plea deal.. You are GONE. "Jeff" wrote in message . .. * Rick B. wrote, On 4/17/2007 2:45 PM: On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:46 -0400, Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. If the 33 dead people had not been following the VTI policy of not allowing handguns on campus, less of them would be dead. It is not illegal to have a handgun in Virginia, but school policy forbade them on campus. Too bad, one person ignores the policy and 33 following it are dead. Life is too short to follow stupid rules. The real question is, if all campuses allowed handguns at all times, would there be more or less killing? I know some here believe, as my swat team friend says, "An armed society is a polite society," but have have serious doubts that this would really work with kids. I certainly wouldn't let my kid go to a campus if I thought a significant number of the students were packing. BTW, my policeman friend is not against moderate gun control, as a way of limiting the number and type of weapons out there. But he says that the strict laws here in Boston don't prevent gangs from simply taking a road trip to VA and NC anytime they want to replenish their arsenal. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Hi Peter,
I'm not Wilbur, but... Peter Hendra wrote: I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet another mass killing in America. I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor taste. Well, the news this morning is saying that the shooter was a Korean foreign student. If this is true, he may or may not have been "Christian", but he could _not_ legally posses a firearm. The US Federal Firearms act of 1968 states clearly: (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person: (5) who, being an alien: (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa. If you would like to take a look at our federal gun laws, they are he http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec.%20926 Wilbur, and those others of you who support your "constitutional right to bear arms" consider this as an example of why you should not make owning hand guns so easy. It may have been easy, but it was not legal in this case. I could have bought any weapon during my 5 day sojourn in Florida recently. A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that Americans seem to prefer, explained that after three days of making an application I could walk out of a store with any type of weapon I desired, even an M-16 which is standard issue to Malaysian Customs. Why a citizen would want such a weapon is beyond me. They are not a hunting rifle. They are an offensive, not defensive weapon for killing people. The policeman you spoke with was mistaken. As an alien (non-citizen) on a non-immigrant visa legally in the USA you are _not_ permitted to purchase or possess a firearm, and it is illegal for anyone to sell or give it to you. This would have been discovered either at the check-out counter, or during the 3-day waiting period. Also, you could not have bought an M-16 in 5 days even if you had been a US citizen. The M16 is a fully automatic firearm, which falls under the jurisdiction of the National Firearms Act (NFA). In many states of the US, fully automatic weapons are completely outlawed, and no one but the police and miltary may possess them. In the few states where it is legal to possess them, you must obtain a federal NFA license which requires you to be fingerprinted and get the head of your local law enforcement agency to recommend you in writing. After that there is a thorough background check similar to getting a "Top Secret" clearance. In New Zealand, it is illegal and virtually impossible for anyone to possess a hand gun. The police do not even carry weapons. Most do not even bother to carry their batons. They have access to them when required as well as training in their use, but the armed offenders squads seldom shoot to kill; they usually disable the offender by shooting the legs. Don't think that we don't have violent crime and robberies in God's Own, we do. It's just that the criminals generally don't have access to handguns. If procuring one was as easy as in the U.S., then no doubt the situation would be diferent. We also have a law that makes it an imprisonable offence (at the worst) if a citizen does not go to the aid of a policeman who requests it or who fails to help if they see a policeman in trouble. Our police are also well trained in unarmed defence. In Mexico, on the southern boarder of the US, it is illegal for anyone except the police and military to possess firearms or ammunition. Yet, they have a large amount of gun crime just like the US. Laws do not keep criminals from doing what they want to do. It is the criminal mindset that they do not care what the laws are. If you think that we could keep guns out by making them illegal, take a look at our attempts to keep out illegal drugs like marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc. These drugs are highly illegal, with draconian penaltys just short of execution imposed on those caught importing or dealing them (40+ year mandatory prison sentences, and confiscation of all your possessions etc.) yet they are everywhere, and easily obtainable. At 16 I acquired a licence to own a rifle which I used to hunt deer, pigs and goats in our forests. You cannot have an automatic weapon, there is no need for this in hunting. Agreed that fully automatic weapons like M-16s are not needed for hunting. Handguns are made to kill human beings, not rabbits or other species. That is why they are good for self-protection. Hunting is not the only, or even the primary lawful use of firearms. There is also target shooting, self-protection, lawful protection of property, law enforcement, international competition, etc. The Virginia Tech. killer used two pistols, one a 9mm automatic. I have one of these as part of my uniform. It usually is kept locked in a desk drawer. My belt holster is a good place for cigarettes. After the initial cocking, each pull of the trigger will fire a bullet and with 15 bullets to a clip, you can shoot them all in about 15 seconds. Why would a private citizen need a weapon like that? In case they were caught up in a shoot-out with a deranged criminal. (Or even a sane one ;-) I'll not go into it here, but similar instances have been prevented because a member of the public was armed and shot the would-be mass murderer. The college in question (Virginia Tech) had made the decision to prohibit anyone except law enforcement officers from carrying firearms on campus. Consequently, no one but the shooter was armed. In Malaysia it is a capital offence to possess an unlicenced firearm. Robbers must therefore resort to knives. Yes, and in Japan, which also does not allow citizens to posses handguns, most of the murders are committed with knives or swords. I am a loss to understand how you can be so strident in defence of your "constituational right" to carry a firearm when you didn't even raise a murmur at the Patriot Act which removes more of your rights and freedoms. That is because you don't understand our history, and how the USA became a nation. The British crown had imposed stringent control of all weapons including swords, armor, and firearms before the revolutionary struggle that led to the foundation of the US. After the war, our founders said "never again". Also, there is a lot of opposition to the "patriot act", and it will eventually overturned. Remember that the recent 9/11 attacks were unprecedented in this country's history. More people were killed that day than when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. It was less than six years ago. Frankly, I would be afraid to live in a country where any psycopath or inadequate person could pull out a gun and "get even" with me over some minor imagined slight, but then I have issues with those wanabe Rambos who aim paintball guns at other humans. Actually, Peter, you do live in such a country no matter where you live. Just because guns are illegal, does not mean they are not around, and the USA does not have a monopoly on psychopaths. Also, as far as the living in the USA, no one is asking you to come live here. From what I've seen there are already _too many_ people from all over the world that want to come live here. Besides, I've lived here for 49 years now, and I am not afraid. I've not personally witnessed _any_ shooting incidents where anyone was shot, or purposely shot at. Nada, zip, none. I also do not know anyone personally who has been wounded or killed by any violent method including guns, knives, beating, strangulation, etc. I've also never been robbed at gun or knifepoint, although I do know of a couple of friends who were robbed at gunpoint at an ATM many years ago. I know that this is off-topic but I wanted to express my saddness. I'm also saddened by this event, but I see it differently. By preventing the law abiding students and faculty from carrying weapons legally, Virginia Tech ensured that there would be no one in a position to stop the shooter before the tragedy was finished. The police only arrived in time to help clean up the mess. For those who think we can outlaw guns to stop this sort of thing I'll just make three points: 1) The shooter was already doing several illegal things anyway. What makes you think they would not have procured a black market gun? 2) Cocaine, Methamphetamines, and Cannibis are illegal, but they are readily available everywhere to those who break the law. 3) By removing weapons from the general populace, you ensure that no one but the police have the weapons needed to stop an armed murderer. The police cannot be everywhere, and they usually show up only after the action is over. Now back to boating... Don W. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
|
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 2:54 pm, Don W
wrote: Hi Peter, I'm not Wilbur, but... Peter Hendra wrote: I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist" Well, the news this morning is saying that the shooter was a Korean foreign student. If this is true, he may or may not have been "Christian", but he could _not_ legally posses a firearm. From Wikpedia As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7 million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism. I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name of Allah. Joe |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote:
Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with the loss of their loved ones. Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions as: From Wikpedia As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7 million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism. I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name of Allah. Joe If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people. So that I am not accused of A: not knowing anything about American history, and B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism, I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your ignorance. " Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ... Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to explanations or further investigations." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially television news, basically agrees." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation... Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing." Neil Postman As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so. I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me credit for: "fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983 "All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy become a dictatorship? " Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas "Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Hermann Goering - German of course. "This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." "They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason." Ernest Hemingway One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) (- such as Moslems - sic) - English The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why. --Henry David Thoreau It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry, Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my American diver friend, Jack Curley here). Thus "Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers Ever so kindest regards Peter |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Peter, you are pathetic. Why don't you just admit it; you hate the USA.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain quote ================================================== ===================================== "Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote: Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with the loss of their loved ones. Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions as: From Wikpedia As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7 million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism. I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name of Allah. Joe If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people. So that I am not accused of A: not knowing anything about American history, and B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism, I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your ignorance. " Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ... Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to explanations or further investigations." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially television news, basically agrees." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation... Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing." Neil Postman As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so. I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me credit for: "fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983 "All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy become a dictatorship? " Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas "Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Hermann Goering - German of course. "This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." "They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason." Ernest Hemingway One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) (- such as Moslems - sic) - English The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why. --Henry David Thoreau It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry, Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my American diver friend, Jack Curley here). Thus "Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers Ever so kindest regards Peter |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
* NE Sailboat wrote, On 4/17/2007 3:47 PM:
Boston eh? You got a killing every other day in the Black neighborhoods of Boston. Recently, one Black girl was shot in the middle of the day. I see you still have trouble with basic math. I even gave you the exact numbers a few months ago, but apparently it is beyond your comprehension. Its true that Boston is in the midst of a major murder spree, but the number is more like 70 murders a year. While this is clearly high for the state, it is actually fairly low compared to similar cities. Also, only about half of these are in the so called "Black neighborhoods," so the gang related murders are less than one a week. Massachusetts, of course, has a very low murder rate compared to the rest of the country. The city I live in is rated as the safest city in the country. Ever see any of the yachtsman here post about that? Nope,, can't be bothered. None of the the yachtsmen bring up that point. You, on the other hand seem obsessed about it; this is the second time this year you've blatantly misrepresented the truth. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message ... Pretty moronic, wouldn't you say? I know Joe has a big issue with gay people. Maybe he could use his same approach to solve his "gay problem" by being a bigger gay? CWM Joe is smart enough to realize there's only room for one big gay in this group and Jonathan Ganz has got that position by default. Wilbur Hubbard |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 5:58 pm, Peter Hendra wrote:
On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote: Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with the loss of their loved ones. Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions as: From Wikpedia As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7 million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism. I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name of Allah. Joe If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people. So that I am not accused of A: not knowing anything about American history, and B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism, I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your ignorance. " Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ... Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to explanations or further investigations." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially television news, basically agrees." Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent "Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation... Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing." Neil Postman As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so. I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me credit for: "fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983 "All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy become a dictatorship? " Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas "Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Hermann Goering - German of course. "This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other." Benjamin Franklin As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." "They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason." Ernest Hemingway One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) (- such as Moslems - sic) - English The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why. --Henry David Thoreau It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry, Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my American diver friend, Jack Curley here). Thus "Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers Ever so kindest regards Peter Peter if you truly wanted to say you were sad about the situation at VT then you would have said that. Instead you took a jab a "Christians" calling them terrorist. Then you went into a gun control rant. And sum ov us dumb merkins hve red buks 2 Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. Ben Franklin Do not be too moral. You may cheat yourself out of much life. Aim above morality. Be not simply good; be good for something. Henry David Thoreau Never send to know, for whom the bell tolls, for the bell tolls for thee Hemingway Relating to your post: Folly is often more cruel in the consequences than malice can be in the intent. Aldous Huxley As far a Thomas Jefferson goes do you think he wrote "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." before or after he was raping one of his slaves? Lucas of star war fame...Sheeeze And you never mentioned that this week SANAA, 11 April 2007 (IRIN) - SANAA, 11 April 2007 (IRIN) - The humanitarian situation in Yemen's northern province of Saada is worsening with reports that the army is laying anti-personnel mines in the area, say sources with access to the region. At the Saudi-built al-Salaam Hospital in Saada city, at least 60 people have been admitted to the hospital in recent weeks with injuries caused by landmine explosions. Not Merkin landmines Peter...You must be so dis-appointed. BTW have you read anything the islamist jihad terrorist post on Al Jezeer. Would you like some quotes of how they have warped Islam so they can use it to their advantage to murder more "infidels" Even Kinder regards Joe |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
On Apr 17, 6:56 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Charlie Morgan" wrote in message ... Pretty moronic, wouldn't you say? I know Joe has a big issue with gay people. Maybe he could use his same approach to solve his "gay problem" by being a bigger gay? CWM Joe is smart enough to realize there's only room for one big gay in this group and Jonathan Ganz has got that position by default. Wilbur Hubbard BB the guy who wish Ol Thom's death,. and now cowering behind the name Charlie Morgan is gayer than Ganz. He's to much of a coward to say anything without hiding behind a skirt. BB's top's the gay chart, if you saw his fat ugly cow of a wife you would know why. Joe |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
As of April 8. Jeff.
ps.. my point isn't that Boston is a dangerous place, it is that the liberal crowd will use the VT Tech murders for political gain. ======================== April 08, 2007 Teen charged with shooting other teen to death 3146 Washington St. 05:04 Enrique Baez, 17, of Jamaica Plain, charged with manslaughter in the death of Cheyenne Baez (no relation), 19, pronounced dead at a local hospital.... More | Comments (5) March 30, 2007 Randolph man shot to death 69 McLellan St. 19:03 James Jacobs, 27, of Randolph, found with multiple gunshot wounds; pronounced dead at BMC.... More | Comments (0) Shot to death on T bus Washington Street and Columbia Road 15:03 Dwayne Graham, 18, of Hyde Park, shot in the head; one suspect sought.... More | Comments (0) March 28, 2007 Man shot to death 870 Blue Hill Ave. 17:03 James Williams, 24, of Dorchester, taken to Boston Medical Center with multiple gunshot wounds, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) March 24, 2007 Woman shot to death Geneva Ave. and Westville St. 03:03 Chiara Levin, 22, of Danville, Ky., pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center; shooting occurred outside a late-night party. Police do not think Levin was the intended victim. Man in car also shot; not seriously.... More | Comments (20) March 14, 2007 Gunned down in broad daylight Centre and Highland streets 15:03 Cedrick Steele, 18, found with multiple gunshot wounds; taken to Boston Medical Center but died in surgery.... More | Comments (7) March 11, 2007 Man stabbed to death in fight 21 Castle Ct. 22:03 John A. Austin, 24, stabbed in the chest, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (5) Skeletal remains found 3529 Washington St. 19:03 Remains those of a man; age, race, cause of death undetermined.... More | Comments (0) March 09, 2007 Teen shot to death 72 Olney St. 13:03 Quinntessa Blackwell, 18, transported to Boston Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) February 27, 2007 Man shot to death 63 Armandine St. 21:02 Jova Guidroz, 27, of Dorchester, pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (0) February 21, 2007 Shot to death Columbia Road and Devon Street 15:02 Victim, Andrew Keith, 22, pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (1) February 18, 2007 Shot to death Beaver and Cleveland streets 21:02 Man taken to Beth Israel, where he was declared dead.... More | Comments (0) February 13, 2007 Two arrested in fatal drive-by triple shooting 39 Maywood St. 18:02 Roxbury and Hyde Park men arrested in connection with the shooting, which left one dead, two with gunshot wounds and a fourth man with injuries from his attempt to escape the bullets.... More | Comments (0) February 08, 2007 Man shot to death 651 Warren St. 03:02 Tyrice Brown, 18, of Roxbury, taken to BMC; pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) February 07, 2007 Body found dumped at cemetery 399 Walk Hill St. 06:02 Damien Lackland, 25, apparently shot elsewhere; body left at Mt. Hope Cemetery.... More | Comments (8) January 27, 2007 Man found shot to death 57 Dewey St. 13:01 Pronounced dead at the scene. Victim, Warren Daniel Hairston, 21, of Roxbury, had been reported missing several days earlier.... More | Comments (0) January 12, 2007 Teen shot to death near Jackson Square T stop 940 Parker St. 19:01 Taken to Boston Medical Center with serious injuries; pronounced dead.... More | Comments (21) January 01, 2007 14-year old first murder victim of year Clarkson Street 05:01 Apparently shot due to events at a party; second victim reported in critical condition.... More | Comments (0) December 31, 2006 Shot to death near South Station Beach and South streets 16:12 Cushings Fortuna, 20, of Hyde Park, 74th and last homicide victim of 2006. Found with multiple gunshot wounds.... More | Comments (2) December 26, 2006 Man shot repeatedly; dies 77 Monument St. 17:12 Taken to Mass. General, where he was pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) December 22, 2006 14-year old shot to death 631 Cummins Highway 18:12 Two teens shot; one pronounced dead from a gunshot wound to the chest, the other is expected to live.... More | Comments (4) December 05, 2006 Double shooting; one dead 91 Florida St. 21:12 One victim pronounced at the scene; other taken to Boston Medical Center in serious condition.... More | Comments (0) November 28, 2006 Double shooting; one dead 56 Holworthy St. 19:11 Both victims brought to Boston Medical Center; one pronounced dead, the other expected to live.... More | Comments (4) November 26, 2006 Party proves deadly 67 Milton Ave. 03:11 Five shot, one fatally, during a fight outside a party. The dead man was 18; the other victims ranged in age from 14 to 17.... More | Comments (4) Stabbed on Lansdowne Street 13 Lansdowne St. 02:11 Craig Vierra, 31, taken to Boston Medical Center, where he died. Natick man arrested.... More | Comments (0) November 18, 2006 Woman stabbed to death Dudley and Kenilworth streets 02:11 Stabbed in stomach; taken to Boston Medical Center, where she died.... More | Comments (0) November 12, 2006 Shot to death 32 W. 7th St. 03:11 Willie Reynoso, 29, of South Boston, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (0) November 07, 2006 Two men shot; one dies 11 Hamlet St. 21:11 One pronounced dead at the scene; the other taken to a local hospital in critical condition.... More | Comments (0) November 04, 2006 Shot to death 36 Georgia St. 00:11 Victim pronounced dead at the scene of a gunshot wound.... More | Comments (0) November 02, 2006 Domestic dispute turns fatal 75 Armandine St. 09:11 Niles J. Reavis, 41, of Dorchester, to be charged with the murder of Sandra Reavis, 39, of Dorchester.... More | Comments (0) October 28, 2006 Dismembered body found in two neighborhoods 95 Hollingsworth St. 16:10 Brian Lee accused of killing, dismembering his father, then dumping his head, arms and legs in Roxbury.... More | Comments (0) October 26, 2006 Stabbed to death 177 Harold St. 20:10 Man pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (0) October 22, 2006 Multiple gunshot wounds prove fatal 3118 Washington St. 00:10 Man found in rear of building; taken to Brigham and Women's Hospital, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) October 16, 2006 Man found shot to death in car Fox Street and Mt. Ida Road 23:10 Victim pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (0) October 14, 2006 Man shot, killed 225 Bowdoin St. 00:10 Man, 23, found with multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. Taken to Boston Medical Center, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) October 13, 2006 Shot to death 42 Stanwood St. 01:10 Male, shot in head, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (1) October 12, 2006 Stabbed to death outside a pizza place 1282 Hyde Park Ave. 21:10 Staggered inside Piece of Pizza following dispute between him and suspect.... More | Comments (1) October 11, 2006 Shot to death 10 Wood Ave. 23:10 Man reported shot at 10 Wood Ave. Found at Harvard Street and Cummins Highway; taken to Brigham and Women's, where he was pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) September 30, 2006 Teen found shot to death 22 Howe St. 00:09 Male, 17, found with multiple gunshot wounds; pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (0) September 16, 2006 Man found fatally wounded in crashed car Regent and Akron streets 00:09 Eddie Rowell, 21, of Dorchester, found in car that had just crashed. Taken to Boston Medical Center; pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) September 15, 2006 Westin worker stabs another employee to death 10 Huntington Ave. 16:09 Ivan Sosa, 37, charged with murder in employee area near Turner Fisheries.... More | Comments (0) September 13, 2006 Shot to death Crestwood Park and Townsend St. 23:09 Victim taken to Boston Medical Center and later pronounced dead.... More | Comments (1) September 08, 2006 Shot to death 28 Seaver St. 10:09 Man pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (0) August 31, 2006 Man shot to death during argument 1502 River St. 10:08 More details from the Globe. More | Comments (0) August 21, 2006 Floating body found 140 Northern Ave. 08:08 Body of black male with no visible signs of trauma found. Being investigated by the homicide unit.... More | Comments (0) August 01, 2006 Two shot; one dead 156 Washington St. 00:08 Chucuma Omar Browning, 17, of Dorchester, pronounced dead. Second victim expected to live.... More | Comments (8) July 27, 2006 Man shot to death 242 E. 9th St. 00:07 Man, 24, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (1) July 25, 2006 Man shot to death 128 Intervale St. 23:07 Vernon Cobb, 21, pronounced dead at local hospital.... More | Comments (1) July 22, 2006 Woman murdered at same spot her brother was killed 39 Annunciation Rd. 23:07 Analicia Perry, 20, shot in head at street memorial for her brother, killed there four years earlier.... More | Comments (1) July 21, 2006 Triple shooting leaves one dead 1921 Dorchester Ave. 01:07 Three men in their 20s found with gunshot wounds; one pronounced dead, the others in critical condition.... More | Comments (1) July 19, 2006 Man shot to death in front of childhood home Woolson St. 11:07 Man not identified by police.... More | Comments (0) July 16, 2006 Man shot to death 90 Ames St. 17:07 Man found with gunshot wound; pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (0) July 15, 2006 Man shot to death 34 Danube St. 23:07 Taken to Boston Medical Center, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) Death investigated as homicide 15 Park Dr. 09:07 White male, found dead of unknown causes.... More | Comments (0) July 12, 2006 Teen shot to death 194 Humboldt Ave. 18:07 Herman Taylor III, 18, of Roxbury shot multiple times.... More | Comments (12) July 03, 2006 Possible murder in Franklin Park Glen Lane 09:07 Coroner, homicide detectives investigating how a man ended up dead at the rear service entrance of the Franklin Park Zoo.... More | Comments (1) June 26, 2006 Toddler beaten to death 16 Westwind Rd. 21:06 Boy, 23 months, taken to Boston Medical Center in cardiac arrest; pronounced dead. Cause of death ruled blunt trauma. Time not given in police report.... More | Comments (0) June 25, 2006 Teen shot to death Shawmut Ave. and Dwight St. 23:06 Two juveniles held; victim, 19, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (2) June 24, 2006 Man dies from multiple gunshot wounds 6 Tebroc St. 22:06 Taken to Boston Medical Center; pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) June 22, 2006 Stabbed to death 72 Cheney St. 07:06 Autopsy revealed male found dead had been stabbed. No indication the man, white, had any connection to the address.... More | Comments (0) June 19, 2006 Stabbing near Faneuil Hall turns fatal Congress and North streets 16:06 Victim taken to Massachusetts General Hospital, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) June 16, 2006 Man found in car, shot to death 1 Rosa St. 00:06 Man found inside motor vehicle, suffering from multiple gunshot wounds. Taken to local hospital, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) June 12, 2006 Woman shot to death while sitting on front steps 6 Owencroft St. 22:06 Nhuan Nygyun, 18, taken to Boston Medical Center, pronounced dead.... More | Comments (0) Man stabbed to death Washington Street near Melville Avenue 20:06 James Green, 28, of Dorchester, taken to Boston Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.... More | Comments (1) June 11, 2006 Triple shooting leaves one dead 1000 Blue Hill Ave. 01:06 Shooting at the Caribbean Culture Center. One man pronounced dead at scene.... More | Comments (0) June 07, 2006 Two shot to death 189 Bowdoin St. 13:06 Both found with multiple gunshot wounds; taken to Boston Medical Center, where they were pronounced dead.... More | Comments (4) June 02, 2006 Death of homeless man considered murder Causeway St. 22:06 Police are seeking help to identify the man found dead across from the Garden.... More | Comments (0) June 01, 2006 Sister charged with stabbing brother to death 34 Mallon Rd. 21:06 Kathy Booth, 42, charged with murdering Keith Payne, 44, of Dorchester.... More | Comments (0) May 26, 2006 Shot to death Magnolia and Woodford streets 18:05 Victim taken to Boston Medical Center, where he died.... More | Comments (0) May 18, 2006 Man shot to death 29 W. Tremlett St. 10:05 Allen McNeal, 32, found shot in hallway. Taken to Boston Medical Center, where he died at 3:07 a.m.... More | Comments (0) May 06, 2006 Man shot to death 13 Wendover St. 22:05 Alex Mendes, 24, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (1) Shot to death 190 Hamilton St. 02:05 Police find man on ground; taken to Boston Medical Center where he was pronounced dead.... More | Comments (1) May 05, 2006 Shot to death 6 Carmen St. 20:05 Wellington Demaisonet, 30, discovered in alley with gunshot wounds to the head. Pronounced dead at the scene.... More | Comments (0) May 04, 2006 Multiple gunshot wounds prove fatal River and Thorn streets 22:05 Steven Sydney, 22, of Milton, pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center.... More | Comments (0) May 03, 2006 Man stabbed to death School St. and Champlain Circle 00:05 Marcus Heard, 32, got himself to Carney Hospital with stab wounds, then died in the ER.... More | Comments (0) "Jeff" wrote in message . .. * NE Sailboat wrote, On 4/17/2007 3:47 PM: Boston eh? You got a killing every other day in the Black neighborhoods of Boston. Recently, one Black girl was shot in the middle of the day. I see you still have trouble with basic math. I even gave you the exact numbers a few months ago, but apparently it is beyond your comprehension. Its true that Boston is in the midst of a major murder spree, but the number is more like 70 murders a year. While this is clearly high for the state, it is actually fairly low compared to similar cities. Also, only about half of these are in the so called "Black neighborhoods," so the gang related murders are less than one a week. Massachusetts, of course, has a very low murder rate compared to the rest of the country. The city I live in is rated as the safest city in the country. Ever see any of the yachtsman here post about that? Nope,, can't be bothered. None of the the yachtsmen bring up that point. You, on the other hand seem obsessed about it; this is the second time this year you've blatantly misrepresented the truth. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
TOKYO - The mayor of the Japanese city of Nagasaki was shot to death in a
brazen attack Tuesday by an organized crime chief apparently enraged that the city refused to compensate him after his car was damaged at a public works construction site, news agencies reported. The shooting was rare in a country where handguns are strictly banned and only four politicians are known to have been killed since World War II. Mayor Iccho Ito, 61, was shot twice in the back at point-blank range outside a train station Tuesday evening, Nagasaki police official Rumi Tsujimoto said. One of the bullets struck the mayor's heart and he went into cardiac arrest, according to Nagasaki University Hospital spokesman Kenzo Kusano. Kyodo News agency and national broadcaster NHK said Ito died of his wounds early Wednesday. Tetsuya Shiroo, a senior member of Yamaguchi-gumi, Japan's largest organized crime syndicate, was wrestled to the ground by officers after the attack and arrested for attempted murder, police said. He later admitted to shooting Ito with a handgun with the intent to kill, Nagasaki chief investigator Kazuki Umebayashi said at a news conference. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe called for a "rigorous investigation." It was the second attack in the last 20 years against a mayor of Nagasaki, which was destroyed by a U.S. atomic bomb in 1945 and whose leaders have actively campaigned against militarism. In 1990, Mayor Hitoshi Motoshima was shot and seriously wounded after saying that Japan's emperor, beloved by rightists, bore some responsibility for World War II. Tuesday's attack appeared to involve a more trivial matter, however. Shiroo reportedly clashed with Nagasaki city officials in 2003 after his car was damaged when he drove into a hole at a public works site. He tried unsuccessfully to get compensation from the city after his insurance company refused to pay up, according to Japanese broadcaster NHK. Shiroo also sent a letter to broadcaster TV Asahi to protest recent money scandals linked to Ito, including hidden accounts and public works contracts, Kyodo reported. Backed by the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, Ito was campaigning for his fourth term in office before Sunday's elections. He was an active figure in the movement against nuclear proliferation, heading a coalition of Japanese cities calling for the elimination of nuclear weapons. "Mayor Ito had a strong and boundless passion for peace," said Sunao Tsuboi, leader of a survivors' group based in Hiroshima, a city also flattened by a U.S. atomic bomb in 1945. "We all pray for his recovery." Commonly known as yakuza, Japan's organized crime groups are typically involved in real estate and construction kickback schemes, extortion, gambling, the sex industry, gunrunning and drug trafficking. The yakuza also have had a long-standing political alliance with right-wing nationalists in Japan, although authorities did not indicate that Tuesday's attack was politically motivated. Organized crime groups are behind most shootings in Japan, with two-thirds of the country's 53 known shootings last year being gang-related, according to the National Police Agency. Police estimate there are about 84,500 gangsters across Japan. Attacks on politicians in post-war Japan are extremely rare. In 1960, Socialist leader Inejiro Asanuma was killed in an attack by a sword-wielding 17-year-old that riveted the nation. In 2002, a ruling party politician was fatally stabbed in a dispute over political funds. In the 1990s, a Liberal Democrat lawmaker was killed at his home by his daughter and an opposition lawmaker was stabbed to death by a mental patient. Last year, a right-wing extremist burned down the house of ruling party lawmaker Koichi Kato after the politician criticized then-Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's pilgrimage to a controversial Tokyo war shrine. No one was home at the time. "Jeff" wrote in message . .. * NE Sailboat wrote, On 4/17/2007 3:47 PM: Boston eh? You got a killing every other day in the Black neighborhoods of Boston. Recently, one Black girl was shot in the middle of the day. I see you still have trouble with basic math. I even gave you the exact numbers a few months ago, but apparently it is beyond your comprehension. Its true that Boston is in the midst of a major murder spree, but the number is more like 70 murders a year. While this is clearly high for the state, it is actually fairly low compared to similar cities. Also, only about half of these are in the so called "Black neighborhoods," so the gang related murders are less than one a week. Massachusetts, of course, has a very low murder rate compared to the rest of the country. The city I live in is rated as the safest city in the country. Ever see any of the yachtsman here post about that? Nope,, can't be bothered. None of the the yachtsmen bring up that point. You, on the other hand seem obsessed about it; this is the second time this year you've blatantly misrepresented the truth. |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Peter, Ignore NE and Joe. They are the true enemies of the USA. They do not believe in the real principles upon which the USA was founded, and they do not belive in the basic goodness of mankind. They have no faith in the USA. Yes, there is a problem of terrorism, but simple minded and uneducated people like NE and Joe think the way to solve the problem is to become the bigger terrorist. Pretty moronic, wouldn't you say? I know Joe has a big issue with gay people. Maybe he could use his same approach to solve his "gay problem" by being a bigger gay? CWM Hi Charlie, Thank you for your kind words. No, I am never upset by people such as they, merely saddened as healthy democracy needs dissent, questioning and left field views. I, along with many other people in the world, strongly believe in the principles that the USA was founded upon and realise that it was a lot more than just annoyance at having to pay a tax on tea to the English Crown. What is fascinating was that there was a coming together of thinking people who genuinely wanted to make a difference at a time when nothing like it had been achieved before. It wasn't a grab for power and economic riches. Many of the founding fathers writings had a huge impact on the French Revolution and more recently, Ho Chi Min, and Sun Yat Sen of China. One of my great enjoyments was to walk the red brick line of the Freedom Trail in Boston with a friend and to stand before the statue of Ben Franklin, a man who I have admired as a fascinating human being since childhood. I had been invited to Cambridge to present a paper to a computer conference, but spent more time in exploring Boston's historical places than in listening to the other speakers. The highlight of course was being on the US Constitution. I was so euphoric that I left my daughter's expensive camera bag there (but thankfully not the camera). Oh, I almost forgot the bronze equestrian statue of General Hooker outside the Capitol building and the bequeathal of his name to those professional ladies who are entrepreneurial with their favours. It would be disappointing if all of this were to come to naught as it seems it must one day if the past history of other civilisations and empires have anything to tell us. As I am in the mood for quoting, Woodrow Wilson, who I believe was previously a professor of history at Yale, said that what we learn from history is that we do not learn from history. A valid warning for these times and the "War on Terror" that has been flashing into my mind for sometime comes from the German philosopher Nietzsche "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you" I'm right out of pertinent quotes. I'll probably remember some more halfway up my mast where I can't make notes with a pen. I have repainted my mast and am in the process of completely renewing my rigging. I've thankfully finished repainting the hull in this terrible heat. The locals have gotten used to my sarong which is the only sensible apparel besides nakedness in this climate. regards Peter |
Virginia Tech shooting - attn: Wilbur
Peter Hendra wrote:
bunch of snipped stuff Thus "Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers Ever so kindest regards Peter Peter, You thus dismiss all arguments in response to your original post eh? Usually you are more thoughtful and at least try to communicate and understand the other posters points. If pressed you will find that others here are also well read and can find historically popular figures to quote as well. You don't even have to read the entire reference works as there are books full of quotes from notable figures to be taken easily by those wishing to make speeches. As it happens, my family lost blood in both the parlimentarian upheaval in England, and (later) the American revolutionary war. Our countries founders had specific reasons for including the 1st amendment (freedom of speech), and 2nd amendment (right to keep and bear arms) as well as other rights in our constitution. It may well be that the American political experiment will end in tyranny and disaster like so many political experiments before it, but I doubt that you can safely conclude so or predict the date of its demise. History will be the ulitmate judge. In the meantime, I wonder what other governments are safe, and how long their citizens will appreciate their general disarmament when the next world upheaval bursts upon the scene. History indicates it is just a matter of time. Regards, Don W. |
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