Hi Peter,

I'm not Wilbur, but...

Peter Hendra wrote:
I know that this is off topic but it is very saddening to hear of yet
another mass killing in America.

I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist"
but the thought of the parents, siblings, grandparents and friends
unconsolable grief at this time would make it too flippant and in poor
taste.

Well, the news this morning is saying that the
shooter was a Korean foreign student. If this is
true, he may or may not have been "Christian", but
he could _not_ legally posses a firearm.

The US Federal Firearms act of 1968 states clearly:

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or
otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to
any person knowing or having reasonable cause to
believe that such person:

(5) who, being an alien:
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the
United States; or

(B) except as provided in subsection
(y)(2), has been admitted to the United States
under a nonimmigrant visa.

If you would like to take a look at our federal
gun laws, they are he

http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec.%20926

Wilbur, and those others of you who support your "constitutional right
to bear arms" consider this as an example of why you should not make
owning hand guns so easy.

It may have been easy, but it was not legal in
this case.

I could have bought any weapon during my 5 day sojourn in Florida
recently. A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real
coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that
Americans seem to prefer, explained that after three days of making an
application I could walk out of a store with any type of weapon I
desired, even an M-16 which is standard issue to Malaysian Customs.
Why a citizen would want such a weapon is beyond me. They are not a
hunting rifle. They are an offensive, not defensive weapon for killing
people.

The policeman you spoke with was mistaken. As an
alien (non-citizen) on a non-immigrant visa
legally in the USA you are _not_ permitted to
purchase or possess a firearm, and it is illegal
for anyone to sell or give it to you. This would
have been discovered either at the check-out
counter, or during the 3-day waiting period.

Also, you could not have bought an M-16 in 5 days
even if you had been a US citizen. The M16 is a
fully automatic firearm, which falls under the
jurisdiction of the National Firearms Act (NFA).
In many states of the US, fully automatic weapons
are completely outlawed, and no one but the police
and miltary may possess them. In the few states
where it is legal to possess them, you must obtain
a federal NFA license which requires you to be
fingerprinted and get the head of your local law
enforcement agency to recommend you in writing.
After that there is a thorough background check
similar to getting a "Top Secret" clearance.

In New Zealand, it is illegal and virtually impossible for anyone to
possess a hand gun. The police do not even carry weapons. Most do not
even bother to carry their batons. They have access to them when
required as well as training in their use, but the armed offenders
squads seldom shoot to kill; they usually disable the offender by
shooting the legs. Don't think that we don't have violent crime and
robberies in God's Own, we do. It's just that the criminals generally
don't have access to handguns. If procuring one was as easy as in the
U.S., then no doubt the situation would be diferent. We also have a
law that makes it an imprisonable offence (at the worst) if a citizen
does not go to the aid of a policeman who requests it or who fails to
help if they see a policeman in trouble. Our police are also well
trained in unarmed defence.

In Mexico, on the southern boarder of the US, it
is illegal for anyone except the police and
military to possess firearms or ammunition. Yet,
they have a large amount of gun crime just like
the US. Laws do not keep criminals from doing
what they want to do. It is the criminal mindset
that they do not care what the laws are.

If you think that we could keep guns out by making
them illegal, take a look at our attempts to keep
out illegal drugs like marijuana, cocaine, heroin,
etc. These drugs are highly illegal, with
draconian penaltys just short of execution imposed
on those caught importing or dealing them (40+
year mandatory prison sentences, and confiscation
of all your possessions etc.) yet they are
everywhere, and easily obtainable.

At 16 I acquired a licence to own a rifle which I used to hunt deer,
pigs and goats in our forests. You cannot have an automatic weapon,
there is no need for this in hunting.

Agreed that fully automatic weapons like M-16s are
not needed for hunting.

Handguns are made to kill human beings, not rabbits or other species.

That is why they are good for self-protection.
Hunting is not the only, or even the primary
lawful use of firearms. There is also target
shooting, self-protection, lawful protection of
property, law enforcement, international
competition, etc.

The Virginia Tech. killer used two pistols, one a 9mm automatic. I
have one of these as part of my uniform. It usually is kept locked in
a desk drawer. My belt holster is a good place for cigarettes. After
the initial cocking, each pull of the trigger will fire a bullet and
with 15 bullets to a clip, you can shoot them all in about 15 seconds.

Why would a private citizen need a weapon like that?

In case they were caught up in a shoot-out with a
deranged criminal. (Or even a sane one ;-)

I'll not go into it here, but similar instances
have been prevented because a member of the public
was armed and shot the would-be mass murderer.
The college in question (Virginia Tech) had made
the decision to prohibit anyone except law
enforcement officers from carrying firearms on
campus. Consequently, no one but the shooter was
armed.

In Malaysia it is a capital offence to possess an unlicenced firearm.
Robbers must therefore resort to knives.

Yes, and in Japan, which also does not allow
citizens to posses handguns, most of the murders
are committed with knives or swords.

I am a loss to understand how you can be so strident in defence of
your "constituational right" to carry a firearm when you didn't even
raise a murmur at the Patriot Act which removes more of your rights
and freedoms.

That is because you don't understand our history,
and how the USA became a nation. The British
crown had imposed stringent control of all weapons
including swords, armor, and firearms before the
revolutionary struggle that led to the foundation
of the US. After the war, our founders said
"never again".

Also, there is a lot of opposition to the "patriot
act", and it will eventually overturned. Remember
that the recent 9/11 attacks were unprecedented in
this country's history. More people were killed
that day than when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
It was less than six years ago.

Frankly, I would be afraid to live in a country where any psycopath or
inadequate person could pull out a gun and "get even" with me over
some minor imagined slight, but then I have issues with those wanabe
Rambos who aim paintball guns at other humans.

Actually, Peter, you do live in such a country no
matter where you live. Just because guns are
illegal, does not mean they are not around, and
the USA does not have a monopoly on psychopaths.

Also, as far as the living in the USA, no one is
asking you to come live here. From what I've seen
there are already _too many_ people from all over
the world that want to come live here.

Besides, I've lived here for 49 years now, and I
am not afraid. I've not personally witnessed
_any_ shooting incidents where anyone was shot, or
purposely shot at. Nada, zip, none. I also do
not know anyone personally who has been wounded or
killed by any violent method including guns,
knives, beating, strangulation, etc. I've also
never been robbed at gun or knifepoint, although I
do know of a couple of friends who were robbed at
gunpoint at an ATM many years ago.

I know that this is off-topic but I wanted to express my saddness.

I'm also saddened by this event, but I see it
differently. By preventing the law abiding
students and faculty from carrying weapons
legally, Virginia Tech ensured that there would be
no one in a position to stop the shooter before
the tragedy was finished. The police only arrived
in time to help clean up the mess.

For those who think we can outlaw guns to stop
this sort of thing I'll just make three points:

1) The shooter was already doing several illegal
things anyway. What makes you think they would
not have procured a black market gun?

2) Cocaine, Methamphetamines, and Cannibis are
illegal, but they are readily available everywhere
to those who break the law.

3) By removing weapons from the general populace,
you ensure that no one but the police have the
weapons needed to stop an armed murderer. The
police cannot be everywhere, and they usually show
up only after the action is over.

Now back to boating...

Don W.

On Apr 17, 2:54 pm, Don W
wrote:
Hi Peter,

I'm not Wilbur, but...

Peter Hendra wrote:
I had thought of making a quip about yet another "Christian terrorist"

Well, the news this morning is saying that the
shooter was a Korean foreign student. If this is
true, he may or may not have been "Christian", but
he could _not_ legally posses a firearm.

From Wikpedia
As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean
population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7
million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are
Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor
religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism.

I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic
Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards
into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name
of Allah.

Joe

On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote:

Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I
wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so
needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who
will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with
the loss of their loved ones.

Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions
as:

From Wikpedia
As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean
population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7
million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are
Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor
religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism.

I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic
Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards
into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name
of Allah.

Joe

If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn
anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then
you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants
for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending
Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people.

So that I am not accused of
A: not knowing anything about American history, and
B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe
that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and
emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism,
I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your
ignorance.

" Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of
information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ...
Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of
simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That
way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to
explanations or further investigations."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb
down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that
Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially
television news, basically agrees."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a
species of information that might properly be called disinformation...
Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading
information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial
information - information that creates the illusion of knowing
something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing."
Neil Postman

As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy
for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How
absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who
suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never
mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children
who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on
them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international
groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am
not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so.

I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at
Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire
upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean
and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I
have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see
that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me
credit for:

"fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the
extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business
leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983

"All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people
give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or
Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes
along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How
did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy
become a dictatorship? "
Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas

"Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But
after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a
communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be
brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Hermann Goering - German of course.

"This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a
course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall
become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of
any other."
Benjamin Franklin


As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which
legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political
speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas
Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to
gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for
one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in
your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway

One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst
wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully
and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are
profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English

The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that
certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)
(- such as Moslems - sic) - English

The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging
aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why.
--Henry David Thoreau

It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never
read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less
have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry,
Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people
from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have
discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my
American diver friend, Jack Curley here).

Thus
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the
pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers

Ever so kindest regards
Peter

Peter, you are pathetic. Why don't you just admit it; you hate the USA.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what
you know for sure that just ain't so."
Mark Twain quote





================================================== =====================================


"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
news
On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote:

Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I
wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so
needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who
will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with
the loss of their loved ones.

Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions
as:

From Wikpedia
As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean
population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7
million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are
Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor
religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism.

I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic
Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards
into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name
of Allah.

Joe

If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn
anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then
you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants
for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending
Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people.

So that I am not accused of
A: not knowing anything about American history, and
B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe
that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and
emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism,
I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your
ignorance.

" Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of
information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ...
Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of
simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That
way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to
explanations or further investigations."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb
down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that
Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially
television news, basically agrees."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a
species of information that might properly be called disinformation...
Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading
information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial
information - information that creates the illusion of knowing
something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing."
Neil Postman

As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy
for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How
absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who
suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never
mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children
who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on
them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international
groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am
not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so.

I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at
Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire
upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean
and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I
have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see
that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me
credit for:

"fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the
extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business
leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983

"All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people
give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or
Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes
along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How
did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy
become a dictatorship? "
Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas

"Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But
after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a
communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be
brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Hermann Goering - German of course.

"This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a
course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall
become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of
any other."
Benjamin Franklin


As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which
legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political
speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas
Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to
gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for
one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in
your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway

One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst
wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully
and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are
profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English

The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that
certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)
(- such as Moslems - sic) - English

The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging
aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why.
--Henry David Thoreau

It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never
read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less
have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry,
Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people
from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have
discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my
American diver friend, Jack Curley here).

Thus
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the
pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers

Ever so kindest regards
Peter

On Apr 17, 5:58 pm, Peter Hendra wrote:
On 17 Apr 2007 13:45:35 -0700, Joe wrote:

Joe and others who responded negatively to my initial post, a post I
wrote with genuine feelings for those young people whose lives were so
needlessly cut short and for those of their friends and relations who
will never forget this day and for whom part of them has died with
the loss of their loved ones.

Just how illogical and ridiculous can you be to draw such conclusions
as:

From Wikpedia
As of 2005, approximately 22 million or 46.5% of the South Korean
population express no religious preference.[26] Of the remainder, 10.7
million are Buddhist, 8.6 million are Protestant, 5.1 million are
Catholic, and less than half a million belong to various minor
religions including Jeungsando and Wonbuddhism.

I think Peter is trying to take the heat off the murdering Islamic
Jihadist that clearly use religion as a tool to con brain dead retards
into blowing themselves up and murdering scores of people in the name
of Allah.

Joe

If you knew anything about history and had ever bothered to learn
anything about Islam other than that promulgated by your press then
you would know that it is expressly forbidden to kill non-combatants
for any reason. The misguided who "blow themselves up" are offending
Islamic doctrine by killing innocent unarmed people.

So that I am not accused of
A: not knowing anything about American history, and
B: forwarding a supposed political agenda when in reality I believe
that "Flags tend to be cloaks that disguise a number of prejudices and
emotions" and belong to no political camp other than perhaps humanism,
I shall quote from Anerican literature to support my claim of your
ignorance.

" Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of
information that seem to contradict what they know of the world ...
Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of
simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That
way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to
explanations or further investigations."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb
down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that
Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially
television news, basically agrees."
Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

"Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a
species of information that might properly be called disinformation...
Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading
information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial
information - information that creates the illusion of knowing
something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing."
Neil Postman

As to the gentleman who commented about my supposed lack of sympathy
for Iraqi children, just how can you draw that conclusion? How
absolutely pathetic and unintelligent as is the gentleman who
suggested I was trying to "take the heat off Islam". I have never
mentioned, for example, my anger at the over 200 Cambodian children
who are killed and miamed each year by landmines with U.S. labels on
them that "were never dropped in that country" and which international
groups are trying to inactivate. To what point in this newsgroup? I am
not anti-American, far from it and do not wish to seem so.

I have never mentioned the Iraqi war apart from my annoyance at
Coalition task forces ( all ships were American) threatening to fire
upon my yacht and family in international waters in the Mediterranean
and Red Seas. I could do so - again from your own literature which I
have read extensively, both fiction and other so that you may see
that I possibly know a little more about your country than you give me
credit for:

"fascism - A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the
extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business
leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
The American Heritage Dictionary, 1983

"All democracies turn into dictatorships - but not by coup. The people
give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or
Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes
along with the idea... That's the issue that I've been exploring: How
did the Republic turn into the Empire ... and how does a democracy
become a dictatorship? "
Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas

"Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But
after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a
communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be
brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Hermann Goering - German of course.

"This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a
course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall
become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of
any other."
Benjamin Franklin

As to your quiet aquiesence to the Patriot Act, much of which
legislation will be retained in some form regardless of political
speak - no government gives up power willingly; none other that Thomas
Jefferson wrote - "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to
gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for
one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in
your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway

One of the great attractions of patriotism-it fulfils our worst
wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully
and to cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are
profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963) - English

The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that
certain other sets of people are human. Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)
(- such as Moslems - sic) - English

The gregariousness of men is their most contemptible and discouraging
aspect. See how they follow each other like sheep, not knowing why.
--Henry David Thoreau

It is my experience that most of your countrymen and women have never
read a single document written by your founding fathers, and even less
have read much of your literature by writers such as Clemens, O Henry,
Ambrose Bierce, Thoreau, Hemingway, Steinbeck and so on. It is people
from other nations such as Germans and Japanese that I can have
discussions with on these authors, seldom American (I exclude my
American diver friend, Jack Curley here).

Thus
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the
pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers

Ever so kindest regards
Peter

Peter if you truly wanted to say you were sad about the situation at
VT then you would have said that. Instead you took a jab a
"Christians" calling them terrorist. Then you went into a gun control
rant.


And sum ov us dumb merkins hve red buks 2

Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far
more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment.
Ben Franklin

Do not be too moral. You may cheat yourself out of much life. Aim
above morality. Be not simply good; be good for something.
Henry David Thoreau

Never send to know, for whom the bell tolls, for the bell tolls for
thee
Hemingway

Relating to your post:
Folly is often more cruel in the consequences than malice can be in
the intent.
Aldous Huxley

As far a Thomas Jefferson goes do you think he wrote "Those who desire
to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do
they deserve, either one." before or after he was raping one of his
slaves?

Lucas of star war fame...Sheeeze

And you never mentioned that this week SANAA, 11 April 2007 (IRIN) -
SANAA, 11 April 2007 (IRIN) - The humanitarian situation in Yemen's
northern province of Saada is worsening with reports that the army is
laying anti-personnel mines in the area, say sources with access to
the region. At the Saudi-built al-Salaam Hospital in Saada city, at
least 60 people have been admitted to the hospital in recent weeks
with injuries caused by landmine explosions.

Not Merkin landmines Peter...You must be so dis-appointed.

BTW have you read anything the islamist jihad terrorist post on Al
Jezeer.
Would you like some quotes of how they have warped Islam so they can
use it to their advantage to murder more "infidels"

Even Kinder regards

Joe

Peter Hendra wrote:

bunch of snipped stuff

Thus
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the
pig." -- Mark Twain - one of my favourite authors and philosophers

Ever so kindest regards
Peter

Peter,

You thus dismiss all arguments in response to your
original post eh? Usually you are more thoughtful
and at least try to communicate and understand the
other posters points.

If pressed you will find that others here are also
well read and can find historically popular
figures to quote as well. You don't even have to
read the entire reference works as there are books
full of quotes from notable figures to be taken
easily by those wishing to make speeches.

As it happens, my family lost blood in both the
parlimentarian upheaval in England, and (later)
the American revolutionary war. Our countries
founders had specific reasons for including the
1st amendment (freedom of speech), and 2nd
amendment (right to keep and bear arms) as well as
other rights in our constitution.

It may well be that the American political
experiment will end in tyranny and disaster like
so many political experiments before it, but I
doubt that you can safely conclude so or predict
the date of its demise. History will be the
ulitmate judge.

In the meantime, I wonder what other governments
are safe, and how long their citizens will
appreciate their general disarmament when the next
world upheaval bursts upon the scene. History
indicates it is just a matter of time.

Regards,

Don W.

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:58:47 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:

Peter, you made many good points, but unfortunately
also early on made the typical "generalization" mistake of those who
may find your points debatable. I am sympathetic to much of what you
said, but find the following highly offensive:

"A friendly policeman with whom I was having coffee - real
coffee - Cuban, not that brown dishwater that poses as coffee that
Americans seem to prefer..."

Of course, that set the tone
The nerve. The cajones. The impudence to suggest I don't
know my coffee! If you were to visit me you would find a choice
of about 15 different coffees, though none Cuban.
Of course I drink more coffee than Frenchmen drink wine or Germans
beer, and if it were all Cuban my blood pressure would be seriously
elevated at all times.
When they were drafting men into the fight in Viet Nam a young fellow
in Miami asked around for a way out. He found that others had been
washed out of the induction physical by merely drinking a quart of
Cuban coffee just prior to the exam, thusly elevating their blood
pressure. He did as suggested, with no success.
He faced death in combat many times in 'Nam, and it turned his
hair prematurely gray. He also suffered beri beri and other ailments,
but it was his good fortune to make it alive to his release after 2
years of hell, whereupon he had his discharge physical.
The doc checked his blood pressure three separate times, shaking his
head at each result.
The vet said, "What's wrong, doc?"
And the doc said, with some exasperation,
"How in the HELL did they let you in the Army with such low blood
pressure!?
Sometimes wrong solutions are applied to the wrong problem.

--Vic