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Wayne.B April 15th 07 09:04 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
http://www.nbc-2.com/Video/Xtras.sht...eoId=769701845

35 ft cat in route from Isla Mujeres to FL, 175 miles SW of Tampa

http://tinyurl.com/2vnm6o




Larry April 15th 07 04:04 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
Wayne.B wrote in
:

35 ft cat


He'd have been home by now if he'd had a SELF RIGHTING MONOHULL....(c;

Larry
--

Wayne.B April 15th 07 10:25 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:04:11 +0000, Larry wrote:

He'd have been home by now if he'd had a SELF RIGHTING MONOHULL....(c;


Sounds about right to me. Those cats don't always land on their feet
although there is a lot of denial about that. :-)


NE Sailboat April 16th 07 12:34 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
I took a look at the video .. it wasn't even rough water. The skipper is
standing on the underside of the boat.

=
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
http://www.nbc-2.com/Video/Xtras.sht...eoId=769701845

35 ft cat in route from Isla Mujeres to FL, 175 miles SW of Tampa

http://tinyurl.com/2vnm6o






Jeff April 16th 07 01:25 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Wayne.B wrote, On 4/15/2007 5:25 PM:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:04:11 +0000, Larry wrote:

He'd have been home by now if he'd had a SELF RIGHTING MONOHULL....(c;


Sounds about right to me. Those cats don't always land on their feet
although there is a lot of denial about that. :-)

I have to admit I've been one of the deniers, and the recent spate of
capsizes has been distressing. But I'm not sure why you have the
smiley - are you happy whenever there is a catamaran accident? Should
I use a smiley whenever a monohull goes to the bottom?

This is one of the very few I've heard of that was a real cruising cat
be cruised, not a racer or a delivery incident. At 35 feet its a bit
small, but since it had twin diesels it wasn't a lightweight. I'll be
curious to hear the story - My guess is that this was not a major
storm, but a case of carrying full sail when a strong squall hit.

As for self righting, there are many, many stories of monohulls being
dismasted, often with structural damage. This was certainly not the
only rescue of the season

Joe April 16th 07 03:20 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 15, 6:34 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
I took a look at the video .. it wasn't even rough water. The skipper is
standing on the underside of the boat.


Sheeeeze NE sailboat.

Ever hear of a willawall? Microbursts?

Here in the Gulf we get freight train fronts that will lay you down on
your side in a heat beat, and be completly over in 10 min. I'd never
have a cat bigger than one I could self right.

Joe


Wayne.B April 16th 07 03:59 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On 15 Apr 2007 19:20:17 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

I'd never
have a cat bigger than one I could self right.


Based on my own limited experience, that sounds about right.

I used to have a small Hobie and capsized it several times. Unless
you could anticipate the gust coming before it actually hit, it would
be over before you could head up or ease the mainsheet.

These folks in the Gulf last week at least had the advantage of warm
water.


Larry April 16th 07 04:26 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
Jeff wrote in news:B-CdnUwcZqUHX7
:

As for self righting, there are many, many stories of monohulls being
dismasted, often with structural damage. This was certainly not the
only rescue of the season



Dismasted simply means it self-rights faster with less weight aloft. It's
pretty hard to argue with several thousand pounds of pig iron or lead hell
bent on finding the lowest point near the bottom.....

I'd like to think the smiley had to do with the usual BS a cat owner will
spread on pretty thick as you're standing on the dock and he's telling you
how STABLE and FAST it is in comparison to your measily old sloop and its
nasty, self-righting hull.

Larry
--

Chuck Gould April 16th 07 05:30 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 15, 7:20�pm, "Joe" wrote:
On Apr 15, 6:34 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:

I took a look at the video .. it wasn't even rough water. *The skipper is
standing on the underside of the boat.


Sheeeeze NE sailboat.

Ever hear of a willawall? Microbursts?


Joe


Where do you hail from, Joe?

Out west we call a sudden onset storm a "williwaw", not a willawall.
Words have a way of being used differently around the country.
"Willawall" isn't such a bad variation- running into one can be like
hitting a wall and I wonder if that's behind your local usage?




sherwindu April 16th 07 07:10 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
I'm not happy about people getting into trouble, but it does seem like
vindication
for all the opposition I got when I originally brought up this subject months
ago.

Sherwin D.

"Wayne.B" wrote:

http://www.nbc-2.com/Video/Xtras.sht...eoId=769701845

35 ft cat in route from Isla Mujeres to FL, 175 miles SW of Tampa

http://tinyurl.com/2vnm6o



[email protected] April 16th 07 09:27 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 15, 8:10 pm, sherwindu wrote:
I'm not happy about people getting into trouble, but it does seem like
vindication
for all the opposition I got when I originally brought up this subject months
ago.


I don't recall that thread. Was it here in RBC? Were people arguing
that multihulls don't or can't capsize? I have extensive offshore
experience in my catamaran and in many monohulls and am reasonably
well tuned into the multihull cruising community and I think that
multihulls can be excellent and relatively safe offshore boats.
However, there is no doubt that they can be flipped and are not self-
righting.

-- Tom.


Joe April 16th 07 02:46 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 15, 11:30 pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Apr 15, 7:20?pm, "Joe" wrote:

On Apr 15, 6:34 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:


I took a look at the video .. it wasn't even rough water. ?The skipper is
standing on the underside of the boat.


Sheeeeze NE sailboat.


Ever hear of a willawall? Microbursts?


Joe


Where do you hail from, Joe?

Out west we call a sudden onset storm a "williwaw", not a willawall.
Words have a way of being used differently around the country.
"Willawall" isn't such a bad variation- running into one can be like
hitting a wall and I wonder if that's behind your local usage?


I'm just north of Galveston, sail the Gulf of Mexico mostly. Williwaw
is a term I've heard from an engineer from Michigan who wroked for me
on the supply boats, not a term used here much. I figured it might be
a term someone from the NE would understand. Here in the gulf we call
them fronts, microburst's and t storms.

We were pounded hard last June by a micro storm.
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/276...63212926qxyWne

Here is looking back at it:
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/269...63212926gtlLgt

It put the rail underwater, and blew the hatch off the top of my
wheelhouse:
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/269...63212926AtNrvq

Joe



Wilbur Hubbard April 16th 07 03:35 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wayne.B wrote, On 4/15/2007 5:25 PM:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:04:11 +0000, Larry wrote:

He'd have been home by now if he'd had a SELF RIGHTING
MONOHULL....(c;


Sounds about right to me. Those cats don't always land on their feet
although there is a lot of denial about that. :-)

I have to admit I've been one of the deniers, and the recent spate of
capsizes has been distressing. But I'm not sure why you have the
smiley - are you happy whenever there is a catamaran accident? Should
I use a smiley whenever a monohull goes to the bottom?

This is one of the very few I've heard of that was a real cruising cat
be cruised, not a racer or a delivery incident. At 35 feet its a bit
small, but since it had twin diesels it wasn't a lightweight. I'll be
curious to hear the story - My guess is that this was not a major
storm, but a case of carrying full sail when a strong squall hit.


I've been telling you for years about how unstable and dangerous cats
are for ocean cruising by you refuse to get your head out of your ass
and listen to me. You have this ignorant pre-concieved notion that
multis are safe and they are not. One hears capsize after capsize if one
listens. You don't listen because you don't want to hear. You don't want
to believe you have made a stupid choice of boats. You don't want to
believe you put yourself and your whole family in danger by your
ignorant choice. Here I am tryint to save your live and the lives of
your loved ones and your persist in your stupid head in the sand stance.

Wilbur Hubbard





Jeff April 16th 07 04:57 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 4/16/2007 10:35 AM:

"Jeff" wrote in message

....
I have to admit I've been one of the deniers, and the recent spate of
capsizes has been distressing. But I'm not sure why you have the
smiley - are you happy whenever there is a catamaran accident? Should
I use a smiley whenever a monohull goes to the bottom?

This is one of the very few I've heard of that was a real cruising cat
be cruised, not a racer or a delivery incident. At 35 feet its a bit
small, but since it had twin diesels it wasn't a lightweight. I'll be
curious to hear the story - My guess is that this was not a major
storm, but a case of carrying full sail when a strong squall hit.


I've been telling you for years about how unstable and dangerous cats
are for ocean cruising by you refuse to get your head out of your ass
and listen to me. You have this ignorant pre-concieved notion that
multis are safe and they are not. One hears capsize after capsize if one
listens. You don't listen because you don't want to hear.


Actually I've rather obsessively searched for catamaran capsizes for
many years. There have been some, but very few. As I've posted a
number of times, there have been almost none that are cruising boats
over 35 feet, actually being cruised, not delivered. In point of
fact, none of the recent incidents fit these criteria.

You don't want
to believe you have made a stupid choice of boats.


That's a ridiculous statement, given that I rarely am more then a few
hours away from safe refuge. I've never made any claim that my boat
is suitable for an North Atlantic crossing, although sisterships have
done it.

You don't want to
believe you put yourself and your whole family in danger by your
ignorant choice. Here I am tryint to save your live and the lives of
your loved ones and your persist in your stupid head in the sand stance.


Pretty pathetic, Neal. You're just showing your ignorance. You've
never actually pointed out a capsize in conditions remotely resembling
those that I take my family out in.

You're the one ignoring the reality: the other "disaster" thread here
concerns a monohull that sank without a trace because it got too close
to a ferry. And then there was Jim Gray disappearing in his C&C. And
a few weeks ago a man went missing from his boat in LIS. All of these
were within a few miles of shore. Yes, there is a tiny chance that a
freak squall would hit while I'm carrying full sail and I'm down below
making coffee. (Doubtful, since I don't actually leave the helm for
more than a few seconds.) But there are other higher risks that
plague monohulls.

Jonathan Ganz April 16th 07 05:43 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
In article .com,
wrote:
On Apr 15, 8:10 pm, sherwindu wrote:
I'm not happy about people getting into trouble, but it does seem like
vindication
for all the opposition I got when I originally brought up this subject months
ago.


I don't recall that thread. Was it here in RBC? Were people arguing
that multihulls don't or can't capsize? I have extensive offshore
experience in my catamaran and in many monohulls and am reasonably
well tuned into the multihull cruising community and I think that
multihulls can be excellent and relatively safe offshore boats.
However, there is no doubt that they can be flipped and are not self-
righting.


I'm sure it'll continue the squabbling, but you're right. They don't
self-right. They're actually more stable flipped, but they also are,
in my view, much safer over all, since you'll be less fatigued if you
have to deal with unfavorable conditions, and that will prevent
stupid-user accidents. These sort are what typically gets people in
trouble.

I've sailed both in- and off-shore, and I own a mono, but I'd rather
have a cruising cat for distance trips. Monos are great fun and a joy
to sail, but I don't living on a heel.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com



thunder April 16th 07 05:55 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf ofMexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:46:08 -0700, Joe wrote:


I'm just north of Galveston, sail the Gulf of Mexico mostly. Williwaw is
a term I've heard from an engineer from Michigan who wroked for me on
the supply boats, not a term used here much. I figured it might be a
term someone from the NE would understand. Here in the gulf we call them
fronts, microburst's and t storms.


Different phenomenon. A true williwaw is associated with mountains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katabatic_wind

Wayne.B April 16th 07 06:09 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:57:51 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Yes, there is a tiny chance that a
freak squall would hit while I'm carrying full sail and I'm down below
making coffee. (Doubtful, since I don't actually leave the helm for
more than a few seconds.) But there are other higher risks that
plague monohulls.


I'm actually more or less agnostic on the multi vs mono argument but
certain facts and observations are hard to escape, and I've had more
than 35 years experience cruising and racing under sail. One thing
that sticks out is how many times I've been knocked flat or nearly so
in keel boat monohulls. These were not instances of carelessness or
inattention either. Typically they have resulted from sudden clear
air puffs of much higher velocity, and accompanied by a large
directional shift at the same time. They can be very unpredictable,
and very difficult for the crew and helmsman to react in time to avert
a knockdown. I really don't know any way of avoiding them other than
not sailing at all in gusty conditions. A mono will recover very
quickly from that sort of rough treatment, usually within seconds, and
typically with no harm done.

Other than my small Hobie I've never been on a cat when that sort of
thing has happened. The Hobie was quite predictable however, it would
go over just about every time.


Joe April 16th 07 06:33 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 16, 11:55 am, thunder wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:46:08 -0700, Joe wrote:
I'm just north of Galveston, sail the Gulf of Mexico mostly. Williwaw is
a term I've heard from an engineer from Michigan who wroked for me on
the supply boats, not a term used here much. I figured it might be a
term someone from the NE would understand. Here in the gulf we call them
fronts, microburst's and t storms.


Different phenomenon. A true williwaw is associated with mountains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katabatic_wind


Got ya, thanks.

Also found this
Location: Strait of Magellan and Aleutian Islands

Williwaw is the name for a sudden violent, cold, katabatic gust of
wind descending from a mountainous coast of high latitudes to the sea
and are most common n the Strait of Magellan or the Aleutian Islands.

The term williwaw is of Native American origin which refers to a
strong erratic gust of wind and the effects of a williwaw gust are a
constant danger for any vessel trying to sail around Cape Horn:

Then there are those famous katabatic winds or "williwaws," which can
wreak havoc in short order. If you feel sudden rises in temperature -
beware. This is an air parcel coming down from the mountains and is in
compression. In its most violent manifestation ( a williwaw) it can
dump over high land spilling out onto the water at well over 120 knots
whipping up the water into a white frenzy.

They are also known as the Alskan winds. However, similar gusts with
many local names do occur at many high latitude coasts from Siberia to
Patagonia.

Joe


Jeff April 16th 07 08:09 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Wayne.B wrote, On 4/16/2007 1:09 PM:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:57:51 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Yes, there is a tiny chance that a
freak squall would hit while I'm carrying full sail and I'm down below
making coffee. (Doubtful, since I don't actually leave the helm for
more than a few seconds.) But there are other higher risks that
plague monohulls.


I'm actually more or less agnostic on the multi vs mono argument but
certain facts and observations are hard to escape, and I've had more
than 35 years experience cruising and racing under sail. One thing
that sticks out is how many times I've been knocked flat or nearly so
in keel boat monohulls. These were not instances of carelessness or
inattention either. Typically they have resulted from sudden clear
air puffs of much higher velocity, and accompanied by a large
directional shift at the same time. They can be very unpredictable,
and very difficult for the crew and helmsman to react in time to avert
a knockdown. I really don't know any way of avoiding them other than
not sailing at all in gusty conditions. A mono will recover very
quickly from that sort of rough treatment, usually within seconds, and
typically with no harm done.

Other than my small Hobie I've never been on a cat when that sort of
thing has happened. The Hobie was quite predictable however, it would
go over just about every time.


My final decision to buy my cat was on a gusty day on the Chesapeake -
winds were 15-20, gusting up bit past that. We were beating at about
50 degrees true, slowing catching a Hunter. A gust hit us and the
Hunter went rail down, stalling out, but we just accelerated and went
by. Then the salesman told me to bear off a bit more, and the speed
shot up to 10 knots and I was hooked!

There is no doubt that in more extreme situations a catamaran can be
at risk. My boat (and several others I know of) are designed such
that full sail can generate enough force to tip her over in 45 knots.
Of course, carrying full sail in 45 knots is normally a no-no, so
the key is to anticipate such situations and not get caught.

Personally, I deliberately undersized my sails - stackpack on main,
high cut 120 jib instead of the standard 130. I reef early and often,
and don't hesitate to run the engine if it seems more prudent. Others
take the opposite approach, using a tall rig with a large headsail to
optimize performance in lighter air, but my thinking is that this only
moves the need for powering a couple of knots of wind lower, and
complicates things when it blows up.

Vic Smith April 16th 07 08:14 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:57:51 -0400, Jeff wrote:



You're the one ignoring the reality: the other "disaster" thread here
concerns a monohull that sank without a trace because it got too close
to a ferry. And then there was Jim Gray disappearing in his C&C. And
a few weeks ago a man went missing from his boat in LIS. All of these
were within a few miles of shore. Yes, there is a tiny chance that a
freak squall would hit while I'm carrying full sail and I'm down below
making coffee. (Doubtful, since I don't actually leave the helm for
more than a few seconds.) But there are other higher risks that
plague monohulls.


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.
If so, that puts a different light on it.
The boat was a 1996 FOUNTAINE PAJOT, 35'
I don't know the designed stability of the boat or the load and
weather circumstance of the incident.
Until the capt'n reveals what happened, it's a bit early to say the
boat capsized.
This site is interesting for those seeking info on catamarans.
http://www.bayacht.com/goodbad.htm

--Vic

ps. If Wilbur is right I might switch my boat-buying plans from
the Gemini 105 to the Mac 26M.

Wilbur Hubbard April 16th 07 08:27 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wayne.B wrote, On 4/16/2007 1:09 PM:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:57:51 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Yes, there is a tiny chance that a freak squall would hit while I'm
carrying full sail and I'm down below making coffee. (Doubtful,
since I don't actually leave the helm for more than a few seconds.)
But there are other higher risks that plague monohulls.


I'm actually more or less agnostic on the multi vs mono argument but
certain facts and observations are hard to escape, and I've had more
than 35 years experience cruising and racing under sail. One thing
that sticks out is how many times I've been knocked flat or nearly so
in keel boat monohulls. These were not instances of carelessness or
inattention either. Typically they have resulted from sudden clear
air puffs of much higher velocity, and accompanied by a large
directional shift at the same time. They can be very unpredictable,
and very difficult for the crew and helmsman to react in time to
avert
a knockdown. I really don't know any way of avoiding them other than
not sailing at all in gusty conditions. A mono will recover very
quickly from that sort of rough treatment, usually within seconds,
and
typically with no harm done. Other than my small Hobie I've never
been on a cat when that sort of
thing has happened. The Hobie was quite predictable however, it
would
go over just about every time.


My final decision to buy my cat was on a gusty day on the Chesapeake -
winds were 15-20, gusting up bit past that. We were beating at about
50 degrees true, slowing catching a Hunter. A gust hit us and the
Hunter went rail down, stalling out, but we just accelerated and went
by. Then the salesman told me to bear off a bit more, and the speed
shot up to 10 knots and I was hooked!

There is no doubt that in more extreme situations a catamaran can be
at risk. My boat (and several others I know of) are designed such
that full sail can generate enough force to tip her over in 45 knots.
Of course, carrying full sail in 45 knots is normally a no-no, so the
key is to anticipate such situations and not get caught.

Personally, I deliberately undersized my sails - stackpack on main,
high cut 120 jib instead of the standard 130. I reef early and often,
and don't hesitate to run the engine if it seems more prudent. Others
take the opposite approach, using a tall rig with a large headsail to
optimize performance in lighter air, but my thinking is that this only
moves the need for powering a couple of knots of wind lower, and
complicates things when it blows up.


More lame excuses than Carter's got pills!

1) undersized sails to reduce the danger of capsize tells me you realize
you sail an unsafe boat. Using the engine more is a necessity with
undersized sails unless you enjoy sitting and wallowing in the slop.

2) a boat that capsizes and stays upside-down in a mere 45 knot blow in
flat water is probably going to capsize in a thirty knot blow in a six
foot sea. You just don't have the benefit of a heavy keel that
self-rights a boat if it capsizes and, more importantly, keeps it from
capsizing in the first place.

3) You were impressed by a turn of speed, which turn of speed comes at
the expense of safety. In my opinion, that's a logical choice only if
you single hand and don't value your life or have relatives who depend
on you being alive. Any sane, responsible, family man would forego the
speed for safety. You selfish lust for a few more knots of speed which
is probably no longer in evidence because of how you overloaded your
boat might well cause the demise of you and your loved ones. Simply
unconscionable, Jeff. Time to grow up and accept your responsibilities.
Sell that death trap NOW and buy something safe. May I suggest a nice
heavy displacement, safe rugged Westsail 32? One of those survived
almost unscathed the Perfect Storm even when left abandoned and washed
up on shore days later.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur Hubbard April 16th 07 08:39 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Wayne.B wrote, On 4/15/2007 5:25 PM:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:04:11 +0000, Larry wrote:

He'd have been home by now if he'd had a SELF RIGHTING
MONOHULL....(c;


Sounds about right to me. Those cats don't always land on their feet
although there is a lot of denial about that. :-)

I have to admit I've been one of the deniers, and the recent spate of
capsizes has been distressing. But I'm not sure why you have the
smiley - are you happy whenever there is a catamaran accident? Should
I use a smiley whenever a monohull goes to the bottom?

This is one of the very few I've heard of that was a real cruising cat
be cruised, not a racer or a delivery incident. At 35 feet its a bit
small, but since it had twin diesels it wasn't a lightweight. I'll be
curious to hear the story - My guess is that this was not a major
storm, but a case of carrying full sail when a strong squall hit.

As for self righting, there are many, many stories of monohulls being
dismasted, often with structural damage. This was certainly not the
only rescue of the season


You again show you ignorant bias. You seem to think catamaran capsizes
and monohull capsizes should happen in equal proportions. And if you
hear of more monohull capsizes that bodes well for multihulls. But, you
forget that out on the oceans where capsizes mostly occur there are
probably 100 monohulls voyaging for every multi-hull voyaging. So, I've
heard of a half-dozen multi-hull capsizing in the past year so it would
follow, that if there was equal danger of monohulls capsizing, there
would have to be 600 tales of monohulls capsizing. See how silly your
rationalizing becomes when looked at realistically?

Wilbur Hubbard


Joe April 16th 07 08:48 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 16, 2:14 pm, Vic Smith wrote:


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.


--Vic



We had some pretty nasty, high wind fronts come through that night.
50-60 kt winds here for a few minutes.

Any boat in the wrong situation will capsize.
This one, less than a year old, capsized and suck in the north sea a
few days ago killing 4 crew members and a 14 yo boy, the skippers son.

http://www.bergenships.com/Bourbon%20Dolphin.html

They are not sure what happened yet, but my guess is they tripped
while setting anchors. IMO the boat was a bit small for anchor work in
the north sea. Most anchor boat here in the gulf are in the 220 ft
range, also note no trip preventers on the headache rails. Sometimes
you live and learn, sometimes you don't.

Joe


Joe April 16th 07 08:52 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 16, 2:48 pm, "Joe" wrote:
On Apr 16, 2:14 pm, Vic Smith wrote:



The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.
--Vic


We had some pretty nasty, high wind fronts come through that night.
50-60 kt winds here for a few minutes.

Any boat in the wrong situation will capsize.
This one, less than a year old, capsized and suck in the north sea a
few days ago killing 4 crew members and a 14 yo boy, the skippers son.

http://www.bergenships.com/Bourbon%20Dolphin.html

They are not sure what happened yet, but my guess is they tripped
while setting anchors. IMO the boat was a bit small for anchor work in
the north sea. Most anchor boat here in the gulf are in the 220 ft
range, also note no trip preventers on the headache rails. Sometimes
you live and learn, sometimes you don't.

Joe


I take it back, there are trip preventers, but they are so small I did
not notice them in the pictures.

Joe


Wilbur Hubbard April 16th 07 08:53 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 16, 2:14 pm, Vic Smith wrote:


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.


--Vic



We had some pretty nasty, high wind fronts come through that night.
50-60 kt winds here for a few minutes.

Any boat in the wrong situation will capsize.
This one, less than a year old, capsized and suck in the north sea a
few days ago killing 4 crew members and a 14 yo boy, the skippers son.

http://www.bergenships.com/Bourbon%20Dolphin.html

They are not sure what happened yet, but my guess is they tripped
while setting anchors. IMO the boat was a bit small for anchor work in
the north sea. Most anchor boat here in the gulf are in the 220 ft
range, also note no trip preventers on the headache rails. Sometimes
you live and learn, sometimes you don't.

Joe


That's about the most unseaworthy looking design I've ever seen. How
stupid to put all that weight forward with so little astern to keep it
from nose diving right to the bottom. The architect who designed that
pile of crap should be taken out and shot.

Wilbur Hubbard


Don White April 16th 07 09:18 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 16, 2:14 pm, Vic Smith wrote:


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.


--Vic



We had some pretty nasty, high wind fronts come through that night.
50-60 kt winds here for a few minutes.

Any boat in the wrong situation will capsize.
This one, less than a year old, capsized and suck in the north sea a
few days ago killing 4 crew members and a 14 yo boy, the skippers son.

http://www.bergenships.com/Bourbon%20Dolphin.html

They are not sure what happened yet, but my guess is they tripped
while setting anchors. IMO the boat was a bit small for anchor work in
the north sea. Most anchor boat here in the gulf are in the 220 ft
range, also note no trip preventers on the headache rails. Sometimes
you live and learn, sometimes you don't.

Joe


That's about the most unseaworthy looking design I've ever seen. How
stupid to put all that weight forward with so little astern to keep it
from nose diving right to the bottom. The architect who designed that pile
of crap should be taken out and shot.

Wilbur Hubbard


I guess you don't get out of the swamp and out to offshore oil rigs.
That's the design of the supply boats used around here.
http://www.btinternet.com/~derek.mac...vessels01d.htm



Jeff April 16th 07 09:21 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 3:14 PM:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:57:51 -0400, Jeff wrote:


You're the one ignoring the reality: the other "disaster" thread here
concerns a monohull that sank without a trace because it got too close
to a ferry. And then there was Jim Gray disappearing in his C&C. And
a few weeks ago a man went missing from his boat in LIS. All of these
were within a few miles of shore. Yes, there is a tiny chance that a
freak squall would hit while I'm carrying full sail and I'm down below
making coffee. (Doubtful, since I don't actually leave the helm for
more than a few seconds.) But there are other higher risks that
plague monohulls.


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.


I took a guess based on the conditions - it takes a huge wave to
pitchpole a cruising cat, but it could be capsized by a squall if
proper care was not taken.

If so, that puts a different light on it.


Does it? Maybe if they pitchpoled while under bare poles. BTW,
"plowing into a wave" is not sufficient to pitchpole a cruising cat.
I've hit 10 foot square waves head on and simply gone straight
through. To pitch pole you have to surf down a wave face, such that
you're bow is well depressed when you hit bottom with a lot of momentum.

The boat was a 1996 FOUNTAINE PAJOT, 35'
I don't know the designed stability of the boat or the load and
weather circumstance of the incident.
Until the capt'n reveals what happened, it's a bit early to say the
boat capsized.


Certainly - we have almost no information about the incident. I
presumed that the weather was not too severe - certainly the video did
not look that harsh and a quick check of the buoys didn't reveal any
serious weather. If we rule out hurricanes and the like, then its
hard imagine a pitchpole situation. The news did imply they were hit
by a squall, and in that case being overpowered is possible.

This site is interesting for those seeking info on catamarans.
http://www.bayacht.com/goodbad.htm

--Vic

ps. If Wilbur is right I might switch my boat-buying plans from
the Gemini 105 to the Mac 26M.


If you're planning Atlantic crossing, neither is appropriate.
However, for cruising Maine, the Chesapeake, or the ICW, the Keys, and
maybe a hop to the Bahamas, the Gemini would be just fine.

You must remember that Neal (aka Wilbur) lives on a 27 foot boat, and
while he claims its a "fine blue water passagemaker" he's never
actually been out of sight of land for more than a few hours. And
frankly since he hasn't shown any new pictures in several years,
there's some doubt as to whether it survived last year's storms.


Jeff April 16th 07 09:54 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 4/16/2007 3:27 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

....

More lame excuses than Carter's got pills!

1) undersized sails to reduce the danger of capsize tells me you realize
you sail an unsafe boat. Using the engine more is a necessity with
undersized sails unless you enjoy sitting and wallowing in the slop.


No - I wanted the stack pack, and I don't like "deck sweeper" jibs
that restricted visibility. I wasn't trying to under size the sails,
I just had no reason to oversize them.


2) a boat that capsizes and stays upside-down in a mere 45 knot blow in
flat water is probably going to capsize in a thirty knot blow in a six
foot sea. You just don't have the benefit of a heavy keel that
self-rights a boat if it capsizes and, more importantly, keeps it from
capsizing in the first place.


Sorry, you don't seem to understand the physics here. In general, it
would actually take both a 45 knots gust AND a large wave to capsize a
cat.


3) You were impressed by a turn of speed, which turn of speed comes at
the expense of safety. In my opinion, that's a logical choice only if
you single hand and don't value your life or have relatives who depend
on you being alive. Any sane, responsible, family man would forego the
speed for safety. You selfish lust for a few more knots of speed which
is probably no longer in evidence because of how you overloaded your
boat might well cause the demise of you and your loved ones. Simply
unconscionable, Jeff.


Your comments might be worth some consideration if in fact I was in
the habit of making North Atlantic crossings in winter. But you know
well that I have never taken my family out on anything longer than a
simple overnight crossing, and severe weather does not hit without
warning.

Time to grow up and accept your responsibilities.


You're funny, Neal! You've never taken any responsibility - never
married, never had a family, never owned property. You lost your boat
so now you hide behind sock puppets. And you lecture about
"responsibility." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Sell that death trap NOW and buy something safe. May I suggest a nice
heavy displacement, safe rugged Westsail 32? One of those survived
almost unscathed the Perfect Storm even when left abandoned and washed
up on shore days later.


I have good friends that had a Westsail (and are themselves good
friends of the skipper of Satori). They loved the security of the
boat. However, the boat was too heavy for them to handle as they got
older, and they ended up powering all of the time.

And remember, in the infamous "Queen's Birthday" Typhoon several years
ago two boats ended up on the bottom - a Westsail that was abandoned
(because no one on board could handle the tiller) and another heavy
displacement monohull that was lost with all hands. The two multihulls
that were abandoned were later salvaged.

Joe April 16th 07 10:11 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

That's about the most unseaworthy looking design I've ever seen. How
stupid to put all that weight forward with so little astern to keep it
from nose diving right to the bottom. The architect who designed that
pile of crap should be taken out and shot.

Wilbur Hubbard- -



OK Wilbore I'll bite.
Below the back deck are two main engine that weighs more than the
superstructure, plus 4-6 cement tanks that carry 2000 sacks each, 2-4
liquid mud tanks that carry up to 20,000 gallons, 25,000 gal fuel,
4000, gallons of firefighting foam, ect.ect.ect. The forward structure
is built like it is to keep the decks clear for cargo. She is neither
top heavy, or forward heavy.

Joe


Don White April 16th 07 10:46 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:18:11 GMT, "Don White"
said:

I guess you don't get out of the swamp and out to offshore oil rigs.


Gotta cut Neal a little slack. He's not the brightest bulb on the tree.


He blew it there... it's now obvious that all his talk of long distance
cruising is no more than bilge water.



Vic Smith April 16th 07 11:07 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:21:28 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 3:14 PM:


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.


I took a guess based on the conditions - it takes a huge wave to
pitchpole a cruising cat, but it could be capsized by a squall if
proper care was not taken.

Pitchpoling doesn't require a huge wave according to:
http://www.bayacht.com/goodbad.htm
" In the ocean with storm conditions you must slow the boat down. If
you don’t, the boat will surf faster than the wave system and
literally plunge into a wave front, tripping the boat and causing it
to flip over-not capsize. In storm waves, a prudent skipper, on
cruising cat where safety rather than speed is the priority, will
reduce sail and, if necessary, employ a drogue."

If so, that puts a different light on it.


Does it? Maybe if they pitchpoled while under bare poles. BTW,
"plowing into a wave" is not sufficient to pitchpole a cruising cat.
I've hit 10 foot square waves head on and simply gone straight
through. To pitch pole you have to surf down a wave face, such that
you're bow is well depressed when you hit bottom with a lot of momentum.

I was thinking the boat could have been under too much sail.

The boat was a 1996 FOUNTAINE PAJOT, 35'
I don't know the designed stability of the boat or the load and
weather circumstance of the incident.
Until the capt'n reveals what happened, it's a bit early to say the
boat capsized.


Certainly - we have almost no information about the incident. I
presumed that the weather was not too severe - certainly the video did
not look that harsh and a quick check of the buoys didn't reveal any
serious weather. If we rule out hurricanes and the like, then its
hard imagine a pitchpole situation. The news did imply they were hit
by a squall, and in that case being overpowered is possible.

Yes. Just don't know. BTW, the cat is a 1995. Mistyped it.
http://www.boatinfoworld.com/boat/re...o-colorado.asp

The bayacht guy seems to know catamarans well and looks very dimly
on fiberglass foredecks, and that may (or may not) have been a factor
in this case.

--Vic

Jeff April 16th 07 11:50 PM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 6:07 PM:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:21:28 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 3:14 PM:


The facts of this incident aren't in yet. It's possible the boat
didn't get hit by a gust, but plowed into a wave and flipped.

I took a guess based on the conditions - it takes a huge wave to
pitchpole a cruising cat, but it could be capsized by a squall if
proper care was not taken.

Pitchpoling doesn't require a huge wave according to:
http://www.bayacht.com/goodbad.htm
" In the ocean with storm conditions you must slow the boat down. If
you don’t, the boat will surf faster than the wave system and
literally plunge into a wave front, tripping the boat and causing it
to flip over-not capsize. In storm waves, a prudent skipper, on
cruising cat where safety rather than speed is the priority, will
reduce sail and, if necessary, employ a drogue."


I can say from experience that 10 foot waves are generally not enough
to create these situations. They are talking about large ocean
swells, of the type generated by large storms, with a long fetch.
They may have the cause of the capsize in the Pacific NW a few months
ago, but likely not the primary cause of this incident. Though I
could be wrong.


If so, that puts a different light on it.

Does it? Maybe if they pitchpoled while under bare poles. BTW,
"plowing into a wave" is not sufficient to pitchpole a cruising cat.
I've hit 10 foot square waves head on and simply gone straight
through. To pitch pole you have to surf down a wave face, such that
you're bow is well depressed when you hit bottom with a lot of momentum.

I was thinking the boat could have been under too much sail.


Indeed, that would be my guess. However, unless they had gear
failure, it should have been possible to reduce sail. This is why I
suspect a more sudden event, perhaps being hit by a squall while no
one is at the helm.



The boat was a 1996 FOUNTAINE PAJOT, 35'
I don't know the designed stability of the boat or the load and
weather circumstance of the incident.
Until the capt'n reveals what happened, it's a bit early to say the
boat capsized.

Certainly - we have almost no information about the incident. I
presumed that the weather was not too severe - certainly the video did
not look that harsh and a quick check of the buoys didn't reveal any
serious weather. If we rule out hurricanes and the like, then its
hard imagine a pitchpole situation. The news did imply they were hit
by a squall, and in that case being overpowered is possible.

Yes. Just don't know. BTW, the cat is a 1995. Mistyped it.
http://www.boatinfoworld.com/boat/re...o-colorado.asp

The bayacht guy seems to know catamarans well and looks very dimly
on fiberglass foredecks, and that may (or may not) have been a factor
in this case.


I always thought they increased hobby-horsing or pitching. However,
there are a number of factors involved, so its not as simple as saying
solid deck cats pitch too much.

BTW, although he never mentions it, the boat he keeps referring to as
the "bad cat" is a Prout - solid deck, narrow, center pod, etc. Prout
essentially created the modern cruising cat. They built 5000 hulls,
which are sailing all over the world with a near perfect safety
record. Dozens have circumnavigated - perhaps more than any other
brand of sailboat. I've never heard of any capsizing - they have a
very heavy hull and undersized rig, and the central pod provides
enormous forward buoyancy in pitchpole situations. However, they were
not sold by Bay Yacht. Bay Yacht did, however, sell the FP Tobago
35'. Everyone has an agenda.

Vic Smith April 17th 07 12:04 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:50:40 -0400, Jeff wrote:


BTW, although he never mentions it, the boat he keeps referring to as
the "bad cat" is a Prout - solid deck, narrow, center pod, etc. Prout
essentially created the modern cruising cat. They built 5000 hulls,
which are sailing all over the world with a near perfect safety
record. Dozens have circumnavigated - perhaps more than any other
brand of sailboat. I've never heard of any capsizing - they have a
very heavy hull and undersized rig, and the central pod provides
enormous forward buoyancy in pitchpole situations. However, they were
not sold by Bay Yacht. Bay Yacht did, however, sell the FP Tobago
35'. Everyone has an agenda.


Yes, it's difficult to cut through agendas.
Sorting out the real facts is what's important, and then adjusting to
those facts. Knowing what really caused this catamaran to go upside
down would be a useful fact.

--Vic

Wilbur Hubbard April 17th 07 12:22 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:50:40 -0400, Jeff wrote:


BTW, although he never mentions it, the boat he keeps referring to as
the "bad cat" is a Prout - solid deck, narrow, center pod, etc. Prout
essentially created the modern cruising cat. They built 5000 hulls,
which are sailing all over the world with a near perfect safety
record. Dozens have circumnavigated - perhaps more than any other
brand of sailboat. I've never heard of any capsizing - they have a
very heavy hull and undersized rig, and the central pod provides
enormous forward buoyancy in pitchpole situations. However, they were
not sold by Bay Yacht. Bay Yacht did, however, sell the FP Tobago
35'. Everyone has an agenda.


Yes, it's difficult to cut through agendas.
Sorting out the real facts is what's important, and then adjusting to
those facts. Knowing what really caused this catamaran to go upside
down would be a useful fact.



It got hit by a squall. That's what a couple different reports have
said. Just google "catamaran rescue".

The bottom line is the wind in the sails flipped the boat over. The same
nor'easter that's wreaking havoc on the NE trailed a cold front through
the Gulf and the squall line with winds gusting to 50knots passed right
through the area where the catamaran turned turtle at the very time it
flipped over. The crew probably was not even aware of the frontal
passage squall line as NOAA weather radio does not have the range
necessary. BTW the wind was from the SW prior to the squall line passing
and quickly veered to the NW. This means they probably were running
maybe with a spinnaker or a large genny. If they didn't note the squall
line approaching, they could have got taken unawares. BAM! Fifty knots
on the beam with a 150% spinnaker = instant knockdown for a mono or
instant capsize for a cat. This is the big problem with catamarans.
Their initial stability is great - better than a monohull. But hit them
with a blast of wind on the beam and they tend to lift a hull. Once that
happens, the stability curve gets logarithmically less until, at 90
degrees, it is zero, zilch, nada. Another thing that tends to compound
the problem is when hit with a strong blast of wind from the beam a
catamaran doesn't have much tendency to turn up into the wind like a
monohull does. The hull form and ballast of a monohull tends to head the
boat up where the wind can't knock it down whereas a catamaran doesn't
head up at all. Face it, a catamaran is a poor design for ocean
voyaging.

Wilbur Hubbard


Jeff April 17th 07 12:30 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 7:04 PM:
....
Sorting out the real facts is what's important, and then adjusting to
those facts. Knowing what really caused this catamaran to go upside
down would be a useful fact.


Would it really be useful? Are you looking for a boat to 400 mile
passages, with no alternate refuge along the way? I'm not sure how
this info would help you decide between a Gemini 105 and a Mac 26M.

But I agree, it would be nice to know.

Vic Smith April 17th 07 12:44 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:22:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


It got hit by a squall. That's what a couple different reports have
said. Just google "catamaran rescue".

Yeah, but just this week numerous news reports reported that the 40'
fiberglass sailboat Aqua Mist flew apart in rough water off the coast
of Florida. Turns out the Aqua Mist is (was) a 42' customized
Uniflite sportfisher.

The bottom line is the wind in the sails flipped the boat over. The same
nor'easter that's wreaking havoc on the NE trailed a cold front through
the Gulf and the squall line with winds gusting to 50knots passed right
through the area where the catamaran turned turtle at the very time it
flipped over. The crew probably was not even aware of the frontal
passage squall line as NOAA weather radio does not have the range
necessary. BTW the wind was from the SW prior to the squall line passing
and quickly veered to the NW. This means they probably were running
maybe with a spinnaker or a large genny. If they didn't note the squall
line approaching, they could have got taken unawares. BAM! Fifty knots
on the beam with a 150% spinnaker = instant knockdown for a mono or
instant capsize for a cat. This is the big problem with catamarans.
Their initial stability is great - better than a monohull. But hit them
with a blast of wind on the beam and they tend to lift a hull. Once that
happens, the stability curve gets logarithmically less until, at 90
degrees, it is zero, zilch, nada. Another thing that tends to compound
the problem is when hit with a strong blast of wind from the beam a
catamaran doesn't have much tendency to turn up into the wind like a
monohull does. The hull form and ballast of a monohull tends to head the
boat up where the wind can't knock it down whereas a catamaran doesn't
head up at all. Face it, a catamaran is a poor design for ocean
voyaging.

Sounds right, though I've read a strong beam wind also pushes the cat
sideways. I guess that depends on the hulls resistance to the water
due to load and draft and how strong a wind overcomes that.
Has anybody considered an automatic sheet releasing mechanism
for catamarans? Any heel that would lift a hull would release the
sheets. Wouldn't have to be complicated.

--Vic


Vic Smith April 17th 07 01:02 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:30:16 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 7:04 PM:
...
Sorting out the real facts is what's important, and then adjusting to
those facts. Knowing what really caused this catamaran to go upside
down would be a useful fact.


Would it really be useful? Are you looking for a boat to 400 mile
passages, with no alternate refuge along the way? I'm not sure how
this info would help you decide between a Gemini 105 and a Mac 26M.

The Mac 26M was for Neal. But there are real issues to think about
when deciding between a mono and multi.
Catamarans are expensive. Aside from all other considerations, taking
a big financial hit because a boat was totaled instead of knocked down
makes a difference. If it's found this capt'n did something stupid
that makes a difference. If he had a drogue out and did everything
right but flipped that makes a difference.
I've seriously considered cats and have so far not shied away from the
turtle aspect because I've thought due diligence can prevent that.
Squall lines are common and some not so easily detected before they
hit, especially at night.
If this guy was duly diligent and still flipped, I probably won't
consider a cat, and Wilbur is right. If he screwed up, that's a
different story.

--Vic

Joe April 17th 07 01:10 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Apr 16, 6:44 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:22:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"

wrote:

It got hit by a squall. That's what a couple different reports have
said. Just google "catamaran rescue".


Yeah, but just this week numerous news reports reported that the 40'
fiberglass sailboat Aqua Mist flew apart in rough water off the coast
of Florida. Turns out the Aqua Mist is (was) a 42' customized
Uniflite sportfisher.





The bottom line is the wind in the sails flipped the boat over. The same
nor'easter that's wreaking havoc on the NE trailed a cold front through
the Gulf and the squall line with winds gusting to 50knots passed right
through the area where the catamaran turned turtle at the very time it
flipped over. The crew probably was not even aware of the frontal
passage squall line as NOAA weather radio does not have the range
necessary. BTW the wind was from the SW prior to the squall line passing
and quickly veered to the NW. This means they probably were running
maybe with a spinnaker or a large genny. If they didn't note the squall
line approaching, they could have got taken unawares. BAM! Fifty knots
on the beam with a 150% spinnaker = instant knockdown for a mono or
instant capsize for a cat. This is the big problem with catamarans.
Their initial stability is great - better than a monohull. But hit them
with a blast of wind on the beam and they tend to lift a hull. Once that
happens, the stability curve gets logarithmically less until, at 90
degrees, it is zero, zilch, nada. Another thing that tends to compound
the problem is when hit with a strong blast of wind from the beam a
catamaran doesn't have much tendency to turn up into the wind like a
monohull does. The hull form and ballast of a monohull tends to head the
boat up where the wind can't knock it down whereas a catamaran doesn't
head up at all. Face it, a catamaran is a poor design for ocean
voyaging.


Sounds right, though I've read a strong beam wind also pushes the cat
sideways. I guess that depends on the hulls resistance to the water
due to load and draft and how strong a wind overcomes that.
Has anybody considered an automatic sheet releasing mechanism
for catamarans? Any heel that would lift a hull would release the
sheets. Wouldn't have to be complicated.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I was wondering the same exact thing, a weak link on the sheets.

Joe


Jeff April 17th 07 01:31 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 7:44 PM:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:22:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

It got hit by a squall. That's what a couple different reports have
said. Just google "catamaran rescue".

Yeah, but just this week numerous news reports reported that the 40'
fiberglass sailboat Aqua Mist flew apart in rough water off the coast
of Florida. Turns out the Aqua Mist is (was) a 42' customized
Uniflite sportfisher.


It was a very suspicious situation - they claimed the boat was worth
$300K, about triple its real value.

....
Sounds right, though I've read a strong beam wind also pushes the cat
sideways. I guess that depends on the hulls resistance to the water
due to load and draft and how strong a wind overcomes that.
Has anybody considered an automatic sheet releasing mechanism
for catamarans? Any heel that would lift a hull would release the
sheets. Wouldn't have to be complicated.


My old boat was a Nonsuch. The unstayed mast was flexible, so when a
gust hit, the tip flexed off and shed the force.

I may be wrong, but I think that some cats are designed with rigging
sized to fail before pulling the boat over. (Or maybe that was just a
hare-brained scheme I heard here ...)

Vic Smith April 17th 07 01:52 AM

Video footage - USCG assists capsized catamaran in Gulf of Mexico
 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:31:49 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/16/2007 7:44 PM:


...
Sounds right, though I've read a strong beam wind also pushes the cat
sideways. I guess that depends on the hulls resistance to the water
due to load and draft and how strong a wind overcomes that.
Has anybody considered an automatic sheet releasing mechanism
for catamarans? Any heel that would lift a hull would release the
sheets. Wouldn't have to be complicated.


My old boat was a Nonsuch. The unstayed mast was flexible, so when a
gust hit, the tip flexed off and shed the force.

I may be wrong, but I think that some cats are designed with rigging
sized to fail before pulling the boat over. (Or maybe that was just a
hare-brained scheme I heard here ...)


You would think that if a urinal can be taught to know when you're
****ing, then a cat can be taught to know when it's flipping.
If the sheets are run through a smart gripping device, that device
would let loose when a hull leaves the water.
Maybe some sort of sensor or float in each hull.
The heel idea with a simple mechanical level sensing device
might not work because even cats can roll heavily.
Anyway, sounds like another maintenance item, and maybe not
worth having if it reduces solid seaman-like attention.
They say anti-lock brakes just make people tail-gate more.
Beats me.

--Vic

--Vic


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