Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:20:31 GMT, wrote:

So legal aspect will have to be cleared up accordingly. Otherwise some
good
Samaritans could be suit for wrong doing.

I'm not exactly sure where you live, but states have Good Samaritan
laws. As long as you help in good faith, and the simple fact that you
help is evidence of good faith, you are in the clear. In most states,
any legal filing related to emergency medical treatment has to pass a
medical review board and as long as it was in good faith, they never
pass it through to the courts. If you have emergency medical
training, the only criteria is that you don't exceed the limits of the
training - like giving a cardiac patient a drug or start an IV if your
training is at the First Responder or EMT-Basic level.

I have personal experience with this so I'm fairly familiar with the
process. :)




Good grief.

Cancel all future parties at our house.

Eisboch

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?



Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though using
it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's needed.
There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g., you don't
listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect people
who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect
people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days away
from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some of the
crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the
certification, but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan
laws protect people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days
away from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some
of the crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul
Last evening we reviewed this subject with a Family Doctor and a Para Medic.
They concluded that if you can get to patient within 10 minutes you have
survival probability (pending a medical check up) of approximately 40%.
After which the patient has to be follow-up immediately and monitored by
medical specialists at a well equipped ER. Each case can be very different
and cannot be construed as typical. After an appropriate medical check up
surgery may be urgently required.

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 01:59:31 -0700, "Paul" wrote:


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the certification,
but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan laws protect
people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days away
from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some of the
crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

In my volunteer career as a paramedic, I've had around 60 or so cases
of cardiac arrest - rougly 40 of them were medical cases involving CPR
prior to the resuscitation attempt (I'm doing this from memory). Of
those, 4 were successful, but as I remember it, we were there within
five minutes of the event and CPR had been initiated immediately. The
other 20 or so were trauma related and most of them survived.

It's all in the timing. From what I've read, survival over CPR is
pretty spectacular and in general the use of auto defibrillators
increase the survival rate by about 30% over the old 10%.

It's pretty evident that if you can get things going quickly, the
chances or survival are good as long as you can also apply oxygen and
get the patient to higher level care in good time.

I would suspect that for ocean cruisers, it might not be beneficial
for somebody in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific. But for your
average cruiser along the coast, medical assistance isn't that far
away and could be a big advantage in keeping somebody long enough to
be attended to at a higher level.

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

* Paul wrote, On 4/9/2007 4:59 AM:
....

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days away
from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some of the
crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?


Funny, I got the opposite advice. My doctor said that since we do
almost entirely coastal cruising, we wouldn't be so far from help that
it would make a difference. I don't know if he didn't appreciate how
long it might take to get help to even a mooring, or if he thought it
would give a false sense of security that might dis-incentivate
proper exercise, of if they didn't work at all.

The cost is falling - the small Phillips units are about $1200, but
the discount rate on ebay seems to be $950. Unfortunately, my health
insurance is so expensive, I can't afford it.

As for training, there isn't much to it, but it would be appropriate
to take a one day first aid/cpr class with the Red Cross, etc. This
does include an hour or so on the proper use of the gadget - probably
worthwhile if you ever had to use one.

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:30:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
said:

I'm not exactly sure where you live, but states have Good Samaritan
laws. As long as you help in good faith, and the simple fact that you
help is evidence of good faith, you are in the clear.

Unfortunately, under the Good Samitan laws of many States good faith alone
is not sufficient. Many are written to also require reasonable care, which
makes them essentially meaningless.

The big question is what is "reasonable care"? As that question to 10
people and you have ten different interpretations. In many case
preponderance will win.

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the
certification, but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan
laws protect people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart attack
care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that unless
the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of a
successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days
away from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some
of the crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul



That's my understanding also. They have them on planes, with the expectation
that they'll be landing soon. I think it would be better than nothing, and
it might save someone's life. Without it the odds aren't that great either.
g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines it's
needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person, e.g.,
you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the
certification, but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan
laws protect people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart
attack care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me that
unless the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the odds of
a successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst many days
away from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit (and some
of the crew were old enough that it might have been warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul



That's my understanding also. They have them on planes, with the
expectation that they'll be landing soon. I think it would be better than
nothing, and it might save someone's life. Without it the odds aren't that
great either. g

When I was in the volunteer fire dept, we had the typical "first-responder"
training in CPR, and the percentages weren't that great, even with prompt
follow-up. I suppose there are many conditions that could trigger an event
requiring defib or CPR, and some of these cases may respond better than
others.

And, as you say, at least the odds improve with defib, vs not having it.
Still, that philosophy applies to most of our safety gear, and at some point
you just can't carry any more stuff "just in case". You have to prioritize.
So far, the defib system hasn't made the cut for me, but that could change
(especially as I get older!). Then again, the doctor I spoke with was using
phrases like "vegetative state", so I suppose more research is in order.

-Paul

Got a question for you crusing types...
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:26:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

How many of you cruisers carry an automatic defibrillator onboard as
part of your emergency medical supplies?

I've heard of a few but I'm not yet among them. How much training is
required to use them correctly, and how large are they?

Virtually no training is actually required, as they "talk" you though
using it on someone. It won't shock the person unless it determines
it's needed. There is some minor danger if you're touching the person,
e.g., you don't listen to the warning to stand clear.

You can take a CPR class throught the RX that gives you the
certification, but here in Cal (possibly elsewhere) the Good Samaritan
laws protect people who use them.

I beleive their now about $1500 and not very big at all.

So what is the prognosis for the typical defib parient? Prior to last
summer's trip from California to Hawaii and back, I discussed heart
attack care with a doctor, and he wasn't too optimistic. He told me
that unless the patient could receive prompt follow-up treatment, the
odds of a successful recovery were pretty bad. Since we were at worst
many days away from outside medical help, I didn't pursue the defib unit
(and some of the crew were old enough that it might have been
warranted).

Any opinions?

-Paul



That's my understanding also. They have them on planes, with the
expectation that they'll be landing soon. I think it would be better than
nothing, and it might save someone's life. Without it the odds aren't
that great either. g

When I was in the volunteer fire dept, we had the typical
"first-responder" training in CPR, and the percentages weren't that great,
even with prompt follow-up. I suppose there are many conditions that
could trigger an event requiring defib or CPR, and some of these cases may
respond better than others.

And, as you say, at least the odds improve with defib, vs not having it.
Still, that philosophy applies to most of our safety gear, and at some
point you just can't carry any more stuff "just in case". You have to
prioritize. So far, the defib system hasn't made the cut for me, but that
could change (especially as I get older!). Then again, the doctor I spoke
with was using phrases like "vegetative state", so I suppose more research
is in order.

-Paul



I've been watching the prices, but even $950 is just too high. I'm certified
in their use, but I just can't justify it, since 90% of the sailing I do is
within easy response range. I ask about known medical conditions before we
leave the dock, but of course anything can happen.

I don't own a sat phone either, but I've been keeping track of those prices
also. If I were going offshore for an extended period or to a relatively
remote location (should have rented one while sailing in Baja, I suppose,
but didn't), then I'd consider buying one.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com