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Vented loop/macerator installation
Peggie Hall,
I asume that you will see this message. I am a little worried about trying to clarify your response after viewing the responses tacked onto my initial post. If you would please review my configuration from my initial post. This boat (since 1980) has always been configured: head to vented loop to y valve directional to either holding tank or thru hull. The vented loop is well above the water line, I have never had to close the thru hull when sailing (with the y valve directed toilet/thru hull). I understand that the vented loop is not necessary between the head and holding tank, but it certainly does no damage, and the plumbing is already in place.. To do what you recommend requires quite a lot of re- routing and a heck of a lot of labor. Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
"K2" wrote in message oups.com... Peggie Hall, I asume that you will see this message. I am a little worried about trying to clarify your response after viewing the responses tacked onto my initial post. If you would please review my configuration from my initial post. This boat (since 1980) has always been configured: head to vented loop to y valve directional to either holding tank or thru hull. The vented loop is well above the water line, I have never had to close the thru hull when sailing (with the y valve directed toilet/thru hull). I understand that the vented loop is not necessary between the head and holding tank, but it certainly does no damage, and the plumbing is already in place.. To do what you recommend requires quite a lot of re- routing and a heck of a lot of labor. Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries. First off she said she gave you the wrong advice or you misunderstood what she told you. NEVER put the vented loop below the water line. That defeats the purpose entirely. Instead of air going in to break the siphon water would come out of the bowl to flood the boat. The vented loop is there only to break the siphon for the intake water for the head. Nothing else. It should have nothing to do with the discharge loop or valves. The macerator discharge should be directed into the holding tank via the Y- valve or out the thru hull via the same Y valve. Always keep the Y valve locked to the holding tank position in no discharge zones. A ball valve on the pumpout might be a good idea provided it is placed close to the holding tank. It serves to limit odors in the plumbing from tank to pumpout fitting. A good way to flush out your holding tank is while it is being pumped out open the Y valve to the thru hull and this will draw raw water through the system. If you pay for a pump out let it pump for several minutes after you think the holding tank contents are outta there. A good flush makes the whole system sweeter. So what if it taxes the pump out station. The more breakdowns pump out stations have the better because then we can claim we have no choice but to poop in a bucket and empty it directly overboard. Wilbur Hubbard |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Mar 21, 9:37 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "K2" wrote in message oups.com... Peggie Hall, I asume that you will see this message. I am a little worried about trying to clarify your response after viewing the responses tacked onto my initial post. If you would please review my configuration from my initial post. This boat (since 1980) has always been configured: head to vented loop to y valve directional to either holding tank or thru hull. The vented loop is well above the water line, I have never had to close the thru hull when sailing (with the y valve directed toilet/thru hull). I understand that the vented loop is not necessary between the head and holding tank, but it certainly does no damage, and the plumbing is already in place.. To do what you recommend requires quite a lot of re- routing and a heck of a lot of labor. Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries. First off she said she gave you the wrong advice or you misunderstood what she told you. NEVER put the vented loop below the water line. That defeats the purpose entirely. Instead of air going in to break the siphon water would come out of the bowl to flood the boat. The vented loop is there only to break the siphon for the intake water for the head. Nothing else. It should have nothing to do with the discharge loop or valves. The macerator discharge should be directed into the holding tank via the Y- valve or out the thru hull via the same Y valve. Always keep the Y valve locked to the holding tank position in no discharge zones. A ball valve on the pumpout might be a good idea provided it is placed close to the holding tank. It serves to limit odors in the plumbing from tank to pumpout fitting. A good way to flush out your holding tank is while it is being pumped out open the Y valve to the thru hull and this will draw raw water through the system. If you pay for a pump out let it pump for several minutes after you think the holding tank contents are outta there. A good flush makes the whole system sweeter. So what if it taxes the pump out station. The more breakdowns pump out stations have the better because then we can claim we have no choice but to poop in a bucket and empty it directly overboard. Wilbur Hubbard- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks for your response, but the vented loop is not for "intake". Intake is supplied via 1" hose from a sea chest. As stated, output is from toilet to vented loop to Y valve directing to either holding tank or thru hull. I am trying to add a macerator pump from the holding tank overboard. My question concerned where & how to dicect the macerator pump 1" discharge. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
"K2" skrev i en meddelelse oups.com... On Mar 21, 9:37 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "K2" wrote in message oups.com... Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries. I think this group would like to get a confirmation and an answer directly from Peggie ... This smells like trolling ... I cannot imagine Peggie would ask WH for any help whatsoever ... -- Flemming Torp Gimle/DEN-61 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in message . .. "K2" skrev i en meddelelse oups.com... On Mar 21, 9:37 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "K2" wrote in message oups.com... Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries. I think this group would like to get a confirmation and an answer directly from Peggie ... This smells like trolling ... I cannot imagine Peggie would ask WH for any help whatsoever ... -- Flemming Torp Gimle/DEN-61 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
"K2" wrote in message oups.com... Thanks for your response, but the vented loop is not for "intake". Intake is supplied via 1" hose from a sea chest. As stated, output is from toilet to vented loop to Y valve directing to either holding tank or thru hull. I am trying to add a macerator pump from the holding tank overboard. My question concerned where & how to dicect the macerator pump 1" discharge. Why in the world would you wish to macerate as you pumped overboard? The ocean doesn't care how lumpy the product may be. Maceration doesn't kill bacteria all it does is grind up the sewage into small pieces. You should get a West Marine catalog and look at the pictures. They have a couple illustrations of waste systems. The macerator pump is to be placed on the head discharge tail piece or close to it. You grind up the product before it goes overboard or into the holding tank. No vented loop is required or called for on the discharge side of the head. What on Earth would be the use of a vented loop on the discharge? In a proper holding tank installation the product enters at the top of the tank and the tank is vented so there's your vented loop right there. Putting in another would be redundant. Wilbur Hubbard |
Vented loop/macerator installation
K2 wrote:
Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too. I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position when the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough to make a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap out the y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then all you have to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line between 'em. Which would eliminate the need for any ball valve. But it's your boat... -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
Roger, you're getting to be a regular on the History Channel "Deep Sea
Detectives" series! The Titanic last year...last night I saw you explaining what caused a WWII minesweeper to sink off Pelau (sp?) in the Pacific. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
In article ,
Flemming Torp fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote: "K2" skrev i en meddelelse roups.com... On Mar 21, 9:37 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "K2" wrote in message oups.com... Peggy is temporally out of commission. She's suffering from the heartbreak of psoriasis. But, she asked me to answer your inquiries. I think this group would like to get a confirmation and an answer directly from Peggie ... This smells like trolling ... I cannot imagine Peggie would ask WH for any help whatsoever ... You smelled right. He's a long-time troll called NEal Warren. Bragged about using a cedar bucket dumped over the side in a marina for years. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Vented loop/macerator installation
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message t... K2 wrote: Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too. I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position when the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough to make a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap out the y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then all you have to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line between 'em. Which would eliminate the need for any ball valve. But it's your boat... -- Peggie This is how I plan to run my hoses: -toilet to Y-valve -Y-valve outlets directly to tank and to thru hull via vented loop -line from second tank pickup to macerator -macerator discharge into T which is in the line between the Y-valve and vented loop When you use the macerator the Y-valve will prevent backflow into the toilet. With the Y-valve connecting toilet to thru hull I suppose you might pump some liquid back into the macerator discharge line but this is a pretty high resistance path compared to going out a 1 1/2 inch hose and thru hull. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:48:39 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote: This is how I plan to run my hoses: -toilet to Y-valve -Y-valve outlets directly to tank and to thru hull via vented loop -line from second tank pickup to macerator -macerator discharge into T which is in the line between the Y-valve and vented loop When you use the macerator the Y-valve will prevent backflow into the toilet. My old boat was like that and it worked fine. The macerator pump was used to empty the holding tank when off shore. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Mar 22, 6:48 pm, "Gordon Wedman" wrote:
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message t... K2 wrote: Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too. I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position when the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough to make a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap out the y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then all you have to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line between 'em. Which would eliminate the need for any ball valve. But it's your boat... -- Peggie This is how I plan to run my hoses: -toilet to Y-valve -Y-valve outlets directly to tank and to thru hull via vented loop -line from second tank pickup to macerator -macerator discharge into T which is in the line between the Y-valve and vented loop When you use the macerator the Y-valve will prevent backflow into the toilet. With the Y-valve connecting toilet to thru hull I suppose you might pump some liquid back into the macerator discharge line but this is a pretty high resistance path compared to going out a 1 1/2 inch hose and thru hull.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Gordon, I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge. Swapping the two makes no sense for me. I plan to use the macerator pump to empty the holding tank as well. Someone needs to re-read the West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about! |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Mar 22, 10:40 am, Peggie Hall wrote:
K2 wrote: Why would I lower the vented loop down by the thru hull, necessitating the requirement to sail with the thru hull closed? I didn't suggest lowering the vented loop, only moving it to the other side of the y-valve to allow it to serve the tank discharge line too. I simply believe that injecting the macerator discharge into a "T" between the head and vented loop (with a ball valve between the "T" and toilet to prevent backflow into the head when operating the macerator) would be a much easier endeavor than anything else. That puts the tank discharge awfully close to the toilet bowl...closer than I'd want to risk the ball valve being left in the wrong position when the tank is dumped. 'Cuz a macerator moves 12 gals/minute, enough to make a very big mess very quickly. How hard can it be to simply swap out the y-valve and vented loop? The lines are already in place. Then all you have to do is tee the line from the macerator into the line between 'em. Which would eliminate the need for any ball valve. But it's your boat... -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&ca... The vented loop is behind the toilet, up at deck level. The y valve is in the bilge 10" away from the thru hull. I simply do not understand how you propose to "simply swap" a 3 connection y valve with a 2 connection vented loop (leaving existing hoses in place). I envisioned dumping the holding tank using the macerator out at sea as a manual/ closely monitored operation - opening and closing valves for the couple of minutes that it would take a 12GPM pump to empty a 35 gallon tank. I guess you are correct concerning "blowing a connection"! Yes, it's my boat, but I was simply asking for input. Thanks for your time. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
K2 wrote:
I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge. Swapping the two makes no sense for me. Who said anything about swapping a vented loop with a thru-hull??? What is so difficult about rearranging a couple of hoses so that the hose the hose from the toilet goes to the y-valve instead of to the vented loop and the hose leading up to the vented loop comes out of one side of the y-valve instead of directly from the toilet? I plan to use the macerator pump to empty the holding tank as well. "As well?"" What else do you plan to use it for? Someone needs to re-read the West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about! Their drawings: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...tionsystem.htm don't include ANY vented loops, so they're not much help in determining whether it belongs before or after a y-valve. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
K2 wrote:
The vented loop is behind the toilet, up at deck level. The y valve is in the bilge 10" away from the thru hull. Ok...NOW I get it. The y-valve isn't in the head where it belongs (and where I thought it was). Suggesting that you put it there is prob'ly a waste of time, but it would sure solve a lot of problems....and also make it much easier to switch between overboard and tank. There is a Plan B that would eliminate the need for a loop or a valve between the macerator and the thru-hull: put the macerator above the top of the tank...or at least far enough above the waterline to keep sea water out of the tank. It wouldn't be a vented loop, but it would effectively create a loop that would do everything but break a siphon, which would be unlikely. Macerators can be oriented in any direction, even upside down, so you'd only need a surface on which to bolt it in place. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Mar 22, 11:03 pm, Peggie Hall wrote:
K2 wrote: I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge. Swapping the two makes no sense for me. Who said anything about swapping a vented loop with a thru-hull??? What is so difficult about rearranging a couple of hoses so that the hose the hose from the toilet goes to the y-valve instead of to the vented loop and the hose leading up to the vented loop comes out of one side of the y-valve instead of directly from the toilet? I plan to use the macerator pump to empty the holding tank as well. "As well?"" What else do you plan to use it for? Someone needs to re-read the West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about! Their drawings: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...tadvisor/10001... don't include ANY vented loops, so they're not much help in determining whether it belongs before or after a y-valve. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&ca... Peggie, My comments were directed ti Gordon/ "As well refers to the two of us with the same application. Please re-read my comment. Where did you get the idea that I was spealing of replacing a thru hull with a vented loop? My y valve is located 10" away from the thru hull in the bilge. Here we go again. |
Vented loop/macerator installation
On Mar 23, 7:10 am, "K2" wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:03 pm, Peggie Hall wrote: K2 wrote: I believe you have a proper approach. In my case, I have a vented loop at deck level, and obviously the thru hull is down in the bilge. Swapping the two makes no sense for me. Who said anything about swapping a vented loop with a thru-hull??? What is so difficult about rearranging a couple of hoses so that the hose the hose from the toilet goes to the y-valve instead of to the vented loop and the hose leading up to the vented loop comes out of one side of the y-valve instead of directly from the toilet? I plan to use the macerator pump to empty the holding tank as well. "As well?"" What else do you plan to use it for? Someone needs to re-read the West Marine catalog to try to understand what we are talking about! Their drawings: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...tadvisor/10001... don't include ANY vented loops, so they're not much help in determining whether it belongs before or after a y-valve. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&ca... Peggie, My comments were directed ti Gordon/ "As well refers to the two of us with the same application. Please re-read my comment. Where did you get the idea that I was spealing of replacing a thru hull with a vented loop? My y valve is located 10" away from the thru hull in the bilge. Here we go again.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - My comments about the West catalog were not directed to you.(sorry for my grammar above. It's early. "spealing" should be "speaking". I now see your "now I get it" response. Your plan B senario makes sense if I can get the height on the macerator pump.Gotta look at that. |
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