The average boat owning idiot.
 

Hey Wilbur--not everything is "an investment" and it's only money!

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:56:08 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:



Well, I'm not a Muslim (nor a "he" for that matter), but Yeshua (aka
"Jesus") is considered a Prophet, along with Moses and Muhammed, and not
"God." There is no god but God, and salvation comes not from believing in a
Man, but by following the Laws of God -- essentially by "Submission to the
Will of God," which is the meaning of Islam.

My Faith differs in significant ways with Islam, in that we believe that
Prophets are sent to every generation, and that there will be no "Last
Prophet" until the end of time. Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God.

KLC,

Forgive me for the gender slip. I should have learned by now to
respond to initials with this in mind. English does not make this
easy.

It is refreshing to see that someone who is not a Moslem knows so much
about the essentials of the religion. It is amazing how many people
think that we "worship" Mohammed in addition to our normal practices
of flag burning etc.

cheers
Peter

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:56:08 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:




My Faith differs in significant ways with Islam, in that we believe that
Prophets are sent to every generation, and that there will be no "Last
Prophet" until the end of time. Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God.


I just realised what I had typed after I pressed the Send button. I
hope that I did not come across as patronising. I wasn't.

regards
Peter

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On 24 Mar 2007 21:50:13 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

On Mar 24, 7:56 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God

But the trick here is, which "god" is God"?

From what I understand, the Gudeo/Christian "God" is one, and the
Islamic "god" is aother, even though they both claim to be sons of
Abraham (Ibirhim). Ishmael, and Issac.

Anyhow, I won't persue this any further in the rec. boats. cruising.

I saw it was mentioned , however, and thought I'd toss some views in
there.


Thanks!

No Tim,
One and the same

Peter

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey Wilbur--not everything is "an investment" and it's only money!


Spoken like any other pauper . . .

Wilbur Hubbard

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On 24 Mar 2007 21:46:10 -0700, "Tim" wrote:

On Mar 24, 4:41 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 16:30:50 -0700, "Tim" wrote:





On Mar 23, 4:28 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:52:01 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/23/2007 4:03 AM:

Actually, that confirms my claim that there is no definitive spelling in
English. The preferred English is now Muhammad, but there are many
others and it is polite to follow whatever convention is used for a
personal name. However, according to the Guardian style guide some
Muslims find the traditional spelling "Mohammed" and varients to be
archaic and disrepectful.

Well, that may be so but there are a great deal of Moslems I have met
with my spelling of my name in Turkey, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman and
in Indonesia and Malaysia. This is the first I have heard of any
spelling of the name to be disrespectful

This is the first I had heard of that. I don't know if its specifically
British, or new political correctness. Of course, a newspaper style guide
is likely to be responsive to a vocal minority, so its not clear what the
meaning of "many" is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide...184829,00.html
Muhammad
Muslims consider Muhammad to be the last of God's prophets, who delivered
God's final message. They recognise Moses and Jesus as prophets also.
The above transliteration is our style for the prophet's name and for most
Muhammads living in Arab countries, though where someone's preferred
spelling is known we respect it, eg Mohamed Al Fayed, Mohamed ElBaradei.
The spelling Mohammed (or variants) is considered archaic by most British
Muslims today, and disrespectful by many of them

Yeah, like there was a Jewish boy running around the Middle East named
"Jesus." It ain't even close to being phonetically correct.

Yes KLC,
He was a Jewish boy. for his entire life, he was never a Christian.

I was always confused as a kid by the many pictures of Jesus (we refer
to him as Isus ibn Mariam - the last often is spelled with a "y").

He was usually portrayed as having blonde hair, fair skin and bright
blue eyes. His outstretched hands were never calloused like other
carpenters.

I'll bet you didn't know that he is also the Moslem Messiah.
.
cheers
Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've never heard of him as a "Moslem Messiah" as far as I know, the
Muslims, consider him a great teacher, but not the "onlybegotten Son
of God" , and deffinately not on the same level as Mohammed.



2. When Jesus stated that he was the "Son of God", this is what any
member of the Pharisees believed - that each was a son of God. Have
you even wondered why Jesus was not brought before the Sanhedrin on
charges of blasphemy because of that statement?

Peter, I was making reference to John 3:16

Conserning the Sanhedrin , yes,m thats correct, but when Jesus was
refering to Him being the Son , and talking of Son/Father about
himself and his relationship with God, you gotta admit, they did get a
bit hacked.

Tim,
It has been a long time, and i don't have a Bible at hand, but from
memory (correct me if I'm wrong) that verse is about "for God so loved
the world that he gave his only begotten son..." As I said, I'm not a
theologian and don't have an answer. The only reason why I am familiar
with it is that, at 15 I was sent to a Seventh Day Adventist
boarding school where everyone had one period each day of a religious
subject in addition to ordinary subjects. As a 'pagan' (yes, they
called me that) I had to take two. They were "Old testament History"
and "New Testament History" and very interesting academically. I
gained top marks in both. Got into conflict though over a few points
such as whether Christ died on a cross or a stake (the original states
clearly "stauros" - stake and whether Mary was virgo intacta - the
orginal word was "maiden" and merely signified that she was not a
married woman.

You should know that we (Moslems) are enjoined to respect the "Peoples
of the Book" (Bible) - the Jews and Christians and consider the Torah
and the rest of the Bible as Holy books. Besides, there is not that
much difference between our beliefs apart from basic doctrine.
Interestingly, I recently worked with a Bahai (sp?) and found that I
could readily relate his beliefs to those of Sufi Islam which is
sometimes considered heresy by some fundamentalists.

Anyway, this is a not a religion discussion group, other wise I would
be here all night.
cheers
Peter

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 23, 4:28 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:52:01 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:







"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/23/2007 4:03 AM:

Actually, that confirms my claim that there is no definitive spelling in
English. The preferred English is now Muhammad, but there are many
others and it is polite to follow whatever convention is used for a
personal name. However, according to the Guardian style guide some
Muslims find the traditional spelling "Mohammed" and varients to be
archaic and disrepectful.

Well, that may be so but there are a great deal of Moslems I have met
with my spelling of my name in Turkey, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman and
in Indonesia and Malaysia. This is the first I have heard of any
spelling of the name to be disrespectful

This is the first I had heard of that. I don't know if its specifically
British, or new political correctness. Of course, a newspaper style guide
is likely to be responsive to a vocal minority, so its not clear what the
meaning of "many" is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide...184829,00.html
Muhammad
Muslims consider Muhammad to be the last of God's prophets, who delivered
God's final message. They recognise Moses and Jesus as prophets also.
The above transliteration is our style for the prophet's name and for most
Muhammads living in Arab countries, though where someone's preferred
spelling is known we respect it, eg Mohamed Al Fayed, Mohamed ElBaradei.
The spelling Mohammed (or variants) is considered archaic by most British
Muslims today, and disrespectful by many of them

Yeah, like there was a Jewish boy running around the Middle East named
"Jesus." It ain't even close to being phonetically correct.

Yes KLC,
He was a Jewish boy. for his entire life, he was never a Christian.

I was always confused as a kid by the many pictures of Jesus (we refer
to him as Isus ibn Mariam - the last often is spelled with a "y").

He was usually portrayed as having blonde hair, fair skin and bright
blue eyes. His outstretched hands were never calloused like other
carpenters.

I'll bet you didn't know that he is also the Moslem Messiah.
.
cheers
Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've never heard of him as a "Moslem Messiah" as far as I know, the
Muslims, consider him a great teacher, but not the "onlybegotten Son
of God" , and deffinately not on the same level as Mohammed.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 21, 2:53 pm, "Don White" wrote:

It's probably all relative...
That so called "average idiot" is probably hauling in well over 6 figures a
year.


And is pencil -whipping it as a total tax write-off

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 21, 4:03 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard. The best of both worlds can be had with a
little sane thinking.


Yeah, charter it from the idiot that paid 100k for it.

and is making a prifit.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 21, 4:44 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On 21 Mar 2007 13:04:09 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:





In article ,
Don White wrote:

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten years.
He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K, the slip
costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint
1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K fitting
out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

It's probably all relative...
That so called "average idiot" is probably hauling in well over 6 figures a
year.
Is it any worse that a washed up retiree pulling in 20K per year on a Post
Office pension and spending $5K per year on an ugly yellow boat with purple
interior?
Both are probably spending the same percentage of their discretionary income
on boating.

I guess I'm not the average idiot, darn it. I paid cash for my Sabre; thus, no
financing. The upkeep, upgrades, fees, etc. are deductible business
expenses, and I get to go sailing.

My 21 year old boat would sell for about the same as it sold for new. Cash,
however is not the only measure of value. Sure I've spent thousands every year
on upkeep, upgrades and marina fees. So what? I've been taking huge amounts of
value out in the form of enjoyment that more than covers it.

If you bought a car for $25k, drove it for 20 years and sold it for 25k, would
you consider it a loss because you spent all that money on oil changes, tires,
and brake jobs? I sure wouldn't. The use I got out of it for those 20 years has
value.

CWM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agreed, Charlie.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...

As this is not a Theology discussion group, I shan't elaborate too
much but you are confusing the three mentioned people and roles.

1 Moslems belive that Jesus was a prophet of God as was Moses, and
others.

2. When Jesus stated that he was the "Son of God", this is what any
member of the Pharisees believed - that each was a son of God. Have
you even wondered why Jesus was not brought before the Sanhedrin on
charges of blasphemy because of that statement?

3. In the Koran, it clearly states that the Prophet Mohammed said -
"there is no Mahdi (Messiah) save Isus ibn Mariam (Jesus, son of
Mary)"

I threw that to KLC but he refused to pick it up.

cheers
Peter Hendra

Well, I'm not a Muslim (nor a "he" for that matter), but Yeshua (aka
"Jesus") is considered a Prophet, along with Moses and Muhammed, and not
"God." There is no god but God, and salvation comes not from believing in a
Man, but by following the Laws of God -- essentially by "Submission to the
Will of God," which is the meaning of Islam.

My Faith differs in significant ways with Islam, in that we believe that
Prophets are sent to every generation, and that there will be no "Last
Prophet" until the end of time. Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:40:26 -0500, "Scotty" w@u wrote:


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news:FdydnSMhbYm5C5vbnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@centurytel. net...
regards
Peter

Not at all, Peter. It seemed very friendly. :-)


for a Moslem.

Sv

I'm going to "turn the other cheek" at that remark.

One for the Theologians:

I often wondered. When a Christian turns the other cheek as per the
New Testament injunction, what happens if his assailant strikes that
one also. Are you permitted to knock him to the ground after that?

The Bible contains some wonderful phases. One I used to like was "Thou
shalt not kick against the pricks" - King James - until I discovered
that "pricks" were spikes on a wooden bar behind a carthorse - to hurt
his leg if he kicked back. It sounded such a great phrase for a holy
book to a kid.

Another was in Romans: "Heap coals of fire upon thy enemy's head" -
fair enough I thought - burn the buggar's eyes out. It was explained
that the meaning was that if someone does you an evil turn, repay it
with a good one. It never made sense until I tried it and it worked.
Their guilt "burned their bloody eyes out".

cheers
Peter

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:35:54 -0700, "claus"
wrote:

What does all this have to do with boating?


Quite simple really.

I am on my boat, on the hard, with my hull primed, filled and sanded,
ready to spraypaint the top coat this morning and it is raining.

cheers

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 24, 4:41 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 16:30:50 -0700, "Tim" wrote:





On Mar 23, 4:28 am, Peter Hendra wrote:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:52:01 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/23/2007 4:03 AM:

Actually, that confirms my claim that there is no definitive spelling in
English. The preferred English is now Muhammad, but there are many
others and it is polite to follow whatever convention is used for a
personal name. However, according to the Guardian style guide some
Muslims find the traditional spelling "Mohammed" and varients to be
archaic and disrepectful.

Well, that may be so but there are a great deal of Moslems I have met
with my spelling of my name in Turkey, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman and
in Indonesia and Malaysia. This is the first I have heard of any
spelling of the name to be disrespectful

This is the first I had heard of that. I don't know if its specifically
British, or new political correctness. Of course, a newspaper style guide
is likely to be responsive to a vocal minority, so its not clear what the
meaning of "many" is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide...184829,00.html
Muhammad
Muslims consider Muhammad to be the last of God's prophets, who delivered
God's final message. They recognise Moses and Jesus as prophets also.
The above transliteration is our style for the prophet's name and for most
Muhammads living in Arab countries, though where someone's preferred
spelling is known we respect it, eg Mohamed Al Fayed, Mohamed ElBaradei.
The spelling Mohammed (or variants) is considered archaic by most British
Muslims today, and disrespectful by many of them

Yeah, like there was a Jewish boy running around the Middle East named
"Jesus." It ain't even close to being phonetically correct.

Yes KLC,
He was a Jewish boy. for his entire life, he was never a Christian.

I was always confused as a kid by the many pictures of Jesus (we refer
to him as Isus ibn Mariam - the last often is spelled with a "y").

He was usually portrayed as having blonde hair, fair skin and bright
blue eyes. His outstretched hands were never calloused like other
carpenters.

I'll bet you didn't know that he is also the Moslem Messiah.
.
cheers
Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've never heard of him as a "Moslem Messiah" as far as I know, the
Muslims, consider him a great teacher, but not the "onlybegotten Son
of God" , and deffinately not on the same level as Mohammed.



2. When Jesus stated that he was the "Son of God", this is what any
member of the Pharisees believed - that each was a son of God. Have
you even wondered why Jesus was not brought before the Sanhedrin on
charges of blasphemy because of that statement?

Peter, I was making reference to John 3:16

Conserning the Sanhedrin , yes,m thats correct, but when Jesus was
refering to Him being the Son , and talking of Son/Father about
himself and his relationship with God, you gotta admit, they did get a
bit hacked.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 24, 7:56 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God

But the trick here is, which "god" is God"?

From what I understand, the Gudeo/Christian "God" is one, and the
Islamic "god" is aother, even though they both claim to be sons of
Abraham (Ibirhim). Ishmael, and Issac.

Anyhow, I won't persue this any further in the rec. boats. cruising.

I saw it was mentioned , however, and thought I'd toss some views in
there.


Thanks!

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:56:08 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:




My Faith differs in significant ways with Islam, in that we believe that
Prophets are sent to every generation, and that there will be no "Last
Prophet" until the end of time. Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God.


I just realised what I had typed after I pressed the Send button. I
hope that I did not come across as patronising. I wasn't.

regards
Peter

Not at all, Peter. It seemed very friendly. :-)

The average boat owning idiot.
 

What does all this have to do with boating?


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Peter Hendra wrote, On 3/23/2007 4:03 AM:

Actually, that confirms my claim that there is no definitive spelling
in English. The preferred English is now Muhammad, but there are many
others and it is polite to follow whatever convention is used for a
personal name. However, according to the Guardian style guide some
Muslims find the traditional spelling "Mohammed" and varients to be
archaic and disrepectful.

Well, that may be so but there are a great deal of Moslems I have met
with my spelling of my name in Turkey, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Oman and
in Indonesia and Malaysia. This is the first I have heard of any
spelling of the name to be disrespectful

This is the first I had heard of that. I don't know if its specifically
British, or new political correctness. Of course, a newspaper style
guide is likely to be responsive to a vocal minority, so its not clear
what the meaning of "many" is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide...184829,00.html
Muhammad
Muslims consider Muhammad to be the last of God's prophets, who delivered
God's final message. They recognise Moses and Jesus as prophets also.
The above transliteration is our style for the prophet's name and for
most Muhammads living in Arab countries, though where someone's preferred
spelling is known we respect it, eg Mohamed Al Fayed, Mohamed ElBaradei.
The spelling Mohammed (or variants) is considered archaic by most British
Muslims today, and disrespectful by many of them

Yeah, like there was a Jewish boy running around the Middle East named
"Jesus." It ain't even close to being phonetically correct.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"claus" wrote in message
. ..
What does all this have to do with boating?


Could be everything if you fall overboard.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...
regards
Peter

Not at all, Peter. It seemed very friendly. :-)


for a Moslem.

Sv

The average boat owning idiot.
 

Peter Hendra wrote:

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:35:54 -0700, "claus"
wrote:


What does all this have to do with boating?



Quite simple really.

I am on my boat, on the hard, with my hull primed, filled and sanded,
ready to spraypaint the top coat this morning and it is raining.

cheers

Oh, I hate when that happens!

Pull out a good book?

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 25, 10:30 am, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
"Peter Hendra" wrote in message

...





On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:56:08 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

My Faith differs in significant ways with Islam, in that we believe that
Prophets are sent to every generation, and that there will be no "Last
Prophet" until the end of time. Nevertheless, we agree with them in
significant ways also -- primarily that there is no god but God.

I just realised what I had typed after I pressed the Send button. I
hope that I did not come across as patronising. I wasn't.

regards
Peter

Not at all, Peter. It seemed very friendly. :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agreeing with KLC.

Thanks Peter.!

The average boat owning idiot.
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard


I paid cash for the Mac26M, new and equipped as ordered. My slip fees,
insurance, and other expenses are much lower than the examples you give.
But I don't look down my nose like you do at people buying boats,
houses, cars, or consumer goods on credit. If it weren't for credit
(including credit cards), the US economy would go down the tube, lots of
homeowners would be living in trailers or tenements or on the streets,
and many more would be unemployed.

The issue isn't whether a person uses credit, it's how he/she uses it.
For example, a young family buying a home and car on credit and using
credit cards (with low interest rates, because of their good payment
history) and a relatively low total balance to level out major purchases
is doing the right thing, provided their total payments and total debt
load are moderate relative to their income level and reserves, and
provided they are keeping the percentage of their income invested in
savings, payments into 401 Ks, etc. high. In particular, they have more
budget savvy than someone who prides himself on being debt free but who
hasn't made wise long-term investments.

On the other hand, if owning one's boat, home and cars debt-free and
having lots of savings and investments is what's important, then you
should congratulate me. - Thanks Wilbur!

Jim

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On Mar 25, 8:35 am, "claus" wrote:
What does all this have to do with boating?

About as much as the first post ;)
2MT

The average boat owning idiot.
 

Scotty wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Scotty wrote:

"katy" wrote in


projection TV.



So would I, but you never invite me.

Scotty



Maybe if we bathed?


together?




With Ringmaster


will the 3 of us fit?


Good Lord...

The average boat owning idiot.
 

"JimC" wrote in message
t...
Wilbur Hubbard


I paid $25 cash for the Mac26M,

You get what you pay for.

The average boat owning idiot.
 

Scotty wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
t...

Wilbur Hubbard


I paid $25 cash for the Mac26M,


You get what you pay for.

\

Sorry you had to sell your Mac, Scotty. It's obvious that you still
miss it.

Jim

The average boat owning idiot.
 

Your ignorance and indefendable rudeness is appalling.
actually, I think lauri insulted Wilbur's name first, and was
much more rude and appalling...


Mahommed Panaeyotis Hendra
Make fun of these
Just trying to sound it out is a whole lots of fun...

The average boat owning idiot.
 

You are wrong moron. As the Koran - or more correctly transliterated
from the arabic - Q'uran - is written in arabic, there are several
accepted spellings.

s.a.n.d.n.i.g.g.e.r?

The average boat owning idiot.
 

On 2007-03-21 17:44:29 -0400, Charlie Morgan said:

If you bought a car for $25k, drove it for 20 years and sold it for 25k, would
you consider it a loss because you spent all that money on oil changes, tires,
and brake jobs? I sure wouldn't. The use I got out of it for those 20 years has
value.

Sailing has costs, but when I factor in what I *used* to pay for
vacations and weekend get-aways that we no longer need, it's positively
cheap. Heck, a weekend on the boat costs less than dinner and a movie.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/