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Four questions from someone new to boating
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:48:02 +0000, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:1174314095.430596.35240 : b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes the pros and cons of boat life? If you REALLY want to learn about boating, don't buy any books.... Now, what you do is to walk the docks of your local marina and strike up pleasant conversations with boat owner/captains. Whatever skill you have, he needs, desparately. Painting, sanding, plumbing, electrical, diesel engine, heat and air, electronics, rigging, welding, any mechanical skills will be MOST welcome, and jealously coveted once he gets to know you better and finds out your are trustworthy, don't drink up every beer you see and are a great help. Fun to be around is also a big plus. Larry, This is by far the best advice anyone could hear. Congratulations on a great posting and for taking the time to think about and write these words to someone you will probably never meet. Somehow, from reading your postings when I get near the web over the past few years I had somehow imagined you to be possibly in your mid forties. Hell! You are two years older than me. cheers and thanks Peter Hendra |
Four questions from someone new to boating
I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the
independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few minutes to answer one or all of them: a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about 3750nm)? b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes the pros and cons of boat life? c) Do any of you live on your boats? d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem to loose half their value in five years. Thanks in advance, Terry. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
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Four questions from someone new to boating
wrote in news:1174314095.430596.35240
@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: c) Do any of you live on your boats? Ahh....another great time to repost my: LIVEABOARD SIMULATOR - Before you make the BIG mistake! Just for fun, park your cars in the lot of the convenience store at least 2 blocks from your house. (Make believe the sidewalk is a floating dock between your car and the house. Move yourself and your family (If applicable) into 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Measure the DECK space INSIDE your boat. Make sure the occupied house has no more space, or closet space, or drawer space. Boats don't have room for "beds", as such. Fold your Sealy Posturepedic up against a wall, it won't fit on a boat. Go to a hobby fabric store and buy a foam pad 5' 10" long and 4' wide AND NO MORE THAN 3" THICK. Cut it into a triangle so the little end is only 12" wide. This simulates the foam pad in the V-berth up in the pointy bow of the sailboat. Bring in the kitchen table from the kitchen you're not allowed to use. Put the pad UNDER the table, on the floor, so you can simulate the 3' of headroom over the pad. Block off both long sides of the pad, and the pointy end so you have to climb aboard the V-berth from the wide end where your pillows will be. The hull blocks off the sides of a V-berth and you have to climb up over the end of it through a narrow opening (hatch to main cabin) on a boat. You'll climb over your mate's head to go to the potty in the night. No fun for either party. Test her mettle and resolve by getting up this way right after you go to bed at night. There are lots of things to do on a boat and you'll forget at least one of them, thinking about it laying in bed, like "Did I remember to tie off the dingy better?" or "Is that spring line (at the dock) or anchor line (anchored out) as tight as it should be?" Boaters who don't worry about things like this laying in bed are soon aground or on fire or the laughing stock of an anchorage.... You need to find out how much climbing over her she will tolerate BEFORE you're stuck with a big boat and big marina bills and she refuses to sleep aboard it any more..... Bring a coleman stove into the bathroom and set it next to the bathroom sink. Your boat's sink is smaller, but we'll let you use the bathroom sink, anyways. Do all your cooking in the bathroom, WITHOUT using the bathroom power vent. If you have a boat vent, it'll be a useless 12v one that doesn't draw near the air your bathroom power vent draws to take away cooking odors. Leave the hall door open to simulate the open hatch. Take all the screens off your 2 bedroom's windows. Leave the windows open to let in the bugs that will invade your boat at dusk, and the flies attracted to the cooking. Borrow a 25 gallon drum mounted on a trailer. Flush your toilets into the drums. Trailer the drums to the convenience store to dump them when they get full. Turn off your sewer, you won't have one. This will simulate going to the "pump out station" every time the tiny drum is full. 25 gallons is actually LARGER than most holding tanks. They're more like 15 gallons on small sailboats under 40' because they were added to the boat after the law changed requiring them and there was no place to put it or a bigger one. They fill up really fast if you liveaboard! Unless your boat is large enough to have a big "head" with full bath, make believe your showers/bathtubs don't work. Make a deal with someone next door to the convenience store to use THEIR bathroom for bathing at the OTHER end of the DOCK. (Marina rest room) If you use this rest room to potty, while you're there, make believe it has no paper towels or toilet paper. Bring your own. Bring your own soap and anything else you'd like to use there, too. If your boat HAS a shower in its little head, we'll let you use the shower end of the bathtub, but only as much tub as the boat has FREE shower space for standing to shower. As the boat's shower drains into a little pan in the bilge, be sure to leave the soapy shower water in the bottom of the tub for a few days before draining it. Boat shower sumps always smell like spent soap growing exotic living organisms science hasn't actually discovered or named, yet. Make sure your simulated V-berth is less than 3' from this soapy water for sleeping. The shower sump is under the passageway to the V-berth next to your pillows. Run you whole house through a 20 amp breaker to simulate available dock power at the marina. If you're thinking of anchoring out, turn off the main breaker and "make do" with a boat battery and flashlights. Don't forget you have to heat your house on this 20A supply and try to keep the water from freezing in winter. Turn off the water main valve in front of your house. Run a hose from your neighbor's lawn spigot over to your lawn spigot and get all your water from there. Try to keep the hose from freezing all winter. As your boat won't have a laundry, disconnect yours. Go to a boat supply place, like West Marine, and buy you a dock cart. Haul ALL your supplies, laundry, garbage, etc. between the car at the convenience store and house in this cart. Once a week, haul your outboard motor to the car, leave it a day then haul it back to the house, in the cart, to simulate "boat problems" that require "boat parts" to be removed/replaced on your "dock". If ANYTHING ever comes out of that cart between the convenience store and the house, put it in your garage and forget about it. (Simulates losing it over the side of the dock, where it sank in 23' of water and was dragged off by the current.) Each morning, about 5AM, have someone you don't know run a weedeater back and forth under your bedroom windows to simulate the fishermen leaving the marina to go fishing. Have him slam trunk lids, doors, blow car horns and bang some heavy pans together from 4AM to 5AM before lighting off the weedeater. (Simulates loading boats with booze and fishing gear and gas cans.) Once a week, have him bang the running weedeater into your bedroom wall to simulate the idiot who drove his boat into the one you're sleeping in because he was half asleep leaving the dock. Put a rope over a big hook in the ceiling over your coffee table "bed". Hook one end of the rope to the coffee table siderail and the other end out where he can pull on it. As soon as he shuts off the weedeater, have him pull hard 9 times on the rope to tilt your bed at least 30 degrees. (Simulates the wakes of the fishermen blasting off trying to beat each other to the fishing.) Anytime there is a storm in your area, have someone constantly pull on the rope. It's rough riding storms in the marina! If your boat is a sailboat, install a big wire from the top of the tallest tree to your electrical ground in the house to simulate mast lightning strikes in the marina, or to give you the thought of potential lightning strikes. Each time you "go out", or think of going boating away from your marina, disconnect the neighbor's water hose, your electric wires, all the umbilicals your new boat will use to make life more bearable in the marina. Use bottled drinking water for 2 days for everything. Get one of those 5 gallon jugs with the airpump on top from a bottled water company. This is your boat's "at sea" water system simulator. You'll learn to conserve water this way. Of course, not having the marina's AC power supply, you'll be lighting and all from a car battery, your only source of power. If you own or can borrow a generator, feel free to leave it running to provide AC power up to the limit of the generator. If you're thinking about a 30' sailboat, you won't have room for a generator so don't use it. Any extra family members must be sleeping on the settees in the main cabin or in the quarter berth under the cockpit....unless you intend to get a boat over 40-something feet with an aft cabin. Smaller boats have quarter berths. Cut a pad out of the same pad material that is no more than 2' wide by 6' long. Get a cardboard box from an appliance store that a SMALL refridgerator came in. Put the pad in the box, cut to fit, and make sure only one end of the box is open. The box can be no more than 2 feet above the pad. Quarter berths are really tight. Make them sleep in there, with little or no air circulation. That's what sleeping in a quarterberth is all about. Of course, to simulate sleeping anchored out for the weekend, no heat or air conditioning will be used and all windows will be open without screens so the bugs can get in. In the mornings, everybody gets up and goes out on the patio to enjoy the sunrise. Then, one person at a time goes back inside to dress, shave, clean themselves in the tiny cabin unless you're a family of nudists who don't mind looking at each other in the buff. You can't get dressed in the stinky little head with the door closed on a sailboat. Hell, there's barely room to bend over so you can sit on the commode. So, everyone will dress in the main cabin....one at a time. Boat tables are 2' x 4' and mounted next to the settee. There's no room for chairs in a boat. So, eat off a 2X4' space on that kitchen table you slept under while sitting on a couch (settee simulator). You can also go out with breakfast and sit on the patio (cockpit), if you like. Ok, breakfast is over. Crank up the lawnmower under the window for 2 hours. It's time to recharge the batteries from last night's usage and to freeze the coldplate in the boat's icebox which runs off a compressor on the engine. Get everybody to clean up your little hovel. Don't forget to make the beds from ONE END ONLY. You can't get to the other 3 sides of a boat bed pad. All hands go outside and washdown the first fiberglass UPS truck that passes by. That's about how big the deck is on your 35' sailboat that needs to have the ocean cleaned off it daily or it'll turn the white fiberglass all brown like the UPS truck. Now, doesn't the UPS truck look nice like your main deck? Ok, we're going to need some food, do the laundry, buy some boat parts that failed because the manufacturer's bean counters got cheap and used plastics and the wife wants to "eat out, I'm fed up with cooking on the Coleman stove" today. Let's make believe we're not at home, but in some exotic port like Ft Lauderdale, today....on our cruise to Key West......Before "going ashore", plan on buying all the food you'll want to eat that will: A - Fit into the Coleman Cooler on the floor B - You can cook on the Coleman stove without an oven or all those fancy kitchen tools you don't have on the boat C - And will last you for 10 days, in case the wind drops and it takes more time than we planned at sea. Plan meals carefully in a boat. We can't buy more than we can STORE, either! You haven't washed clothes since you left home and everything is dirty. Even if it's not, pretend it is for the boater-away-from-home simulator. Put all the clothes in your simulated boat in a huge dufflebag so we can take it to the LAUNDRY! Manny's Marina HAS a laundromat, but the hot water heater is busted (for the last 8 months) and Manny has "parts on order" for it.....saving Manny $$$$ on the electric bill! Don't forget to carry the big dufflebag with us on our "excursion". God that bag stinks, doesn't it?....PU! Of course, we came here by BOAT, so we don't have a car. Some nice marinas have a shuttle bus, but they're not a taxi. The shuttle bus will only go to West Marine or the tourist traps, so we'll be either taking the city bus, if there is one or taxi cabs or shopping at the marina store which has almost nothing to buy at enormous prices. Walk to the 7-11 store, where you have your car stored, but ignore the car. Make believe it isn't there. No one drove it to Ft Lauderdale for you. Use the payphone at the 7-11 and call a cab. Don't give the cab driver ANY instructions because in Ft Lauderdale you haven't the foggiest idea where West Marine is located or how to get there, unlike at home. We'll go to West Marine, first, because if we don't the "head" back on the boat won't be working for a week because little Suzy broke a valve in it trying to flush some paper towels. This is your MOST important project, today....that valve in the toilet!! After the cab drivers drives around for an hour looking for West Marine and asking his dispatcher how to get there. Don't forget to UNLOAD your stuff from the cab, including the dirty clothes in the dufflebag then go into West Marine and give the clerk a $100 bill, simulating the cost of toilet parts. Lexus parts are cheaper than toilet parts at West Marine. See for yourself! The valve she broke, the seals that will have to be replaced on the way into the valve will come to $100 easy. Tell the clerk you're using my liveaboard simulator and to take his girlfriend out to dinner on your $100 greenback. If you DO buy the boat, this'll come in handy when you DO need boat parts because he'll remember you for the great time his girlfriend gave him on your $100 tip. Hard-to-find boat parts will arrive in DAYS, not months like the rest of us. It's just a good political move while in simulation mode. Call another cab from West Marine's phone, saving 50c on payphone charges. Load the cab with all your stuff, toilet parts, DIRTY CLOTHES then tell the cabbie to take you to the laundromat so we can wash the stinky clothes in the trunk. The luxury marina's laundry in Ft Lauderdale has a broken hot water heater. They're working on it, the girl at the store counter, said, yesterday. Mentioning the $12/ft you paid to park the boat at their dock won't get the laundry working before we leave for Key West. Do your laundry in the laundromat the cabbie found for you. Just because noone speaks English in this neighborhood, don't worry. You'll be fine this time of day near noon. Call another cab to take us out of here to a supermarket. When you get there, resist the temptation to "load up" because your boat has limited storage and very limited refridgeration space (remember? Coleman Cooler). Buy from the list we made early this morning. Another package of cookies is OK. Leave one of the kids guarding the pile of clean laundry just inside the supermarket's front door....We learned our lesson and DIDN'T forget and leave it in the cab, again! Call another cab to take us back to the marina, loaded up with clean clothes and food and all-important boat parts. Isn't Ft Lauderdale beautiful from a cab? It's too late to go exploring, today. Maybe tomorrow.... Don't forget to tell the cab to go to the 7-11 (marina parking lot)....not your front door....cabs don't float well. Ok, haul all the stuff in the dock cart from the 7-11 store the two blocks to the "boat" bedroom. Wait 20 minutes before starting out for the house. This simulates waiting for someone to bring back a marina-owned dock cart from down the docks.....They always leave them outside their boats, until the marina "crew" get fed up with newbies like us asking why there aren't any carts and go down the docks to retrieve them. Put all the stuff away, food and clothes, in the tiny drawer space provided. Have a beer on the patio (cockpit) and watch the sunset. THIS is living! Now, disassemble the toilet in your bathroom, take out the wax ring under it and put it back. Reassemble the toilet. This completes the simulation of putting the new valve in the "head" on the boat. Uh, uh, NO POWERVENT! GET YOUR HAND OFF THAT SWITCH! The whole "boat" smells like the inside of the holding tank for hours after fixing the toilet in a real boat, too! Spray some Lysol if you got it.... After getting up, tomorrow morning, from your "V-Berth", take the whole family out to breakfast by WALKING to the nearest restaurant, then take a cab to any local park or attraction you like. We're off today to see the sights of Ft Lauderdale.....before heading out to sea, again, to Key West. Take a cab back home after dinner out and go to bed, exhausted, on your little foam pad under the table..... Get up this morning and disconnect all hoses, electrical wires, etc. Get ready for "sea". Crank up the lawn mower under the open bedroom window for 4 hours while we motor out to find some wind. ONE responsible adult MUST be sitting on the hot patio all day, in shifts, "on watch" looking out for other boats, ships, etc. If you have a riding lawn mower, let the person "on watch" drive it around the yard all day to simulate driving the boat down the ICW in heavy traffic. About 2PM, turn off the engine and just have them sit on the mower "steering" it on the patio. We're under sail, now. Every hour or so, take everyone out in the yard with a big rope and have a tug-of-war to simulate the work involved with setting sail, changing sail, trimming sail. Make sure everyone gets all sweaty in the heat. Sailors working on sailboats are always all sweaty or we're not going anywhere fast! Do this all day, today, all night, tonight, all day, tomorrow, all night tomorrow night and all day the following day until 5PM when you "arrive" at the next port you're going to. Make sure noone in the family leaves the confines of the little bedroom or the patio during our "trip". Make sure everyone conserves water, battery power, etc., things you'll want to conserve while being at sea on a trip somewhere. Everyone can go up to the 7-11 for an icecream as soon as we get the "boat" docked on day 3, the first time anyone has left the confines of the bedroom/patio in 3 days. Question - Was anyone suicidal during our simulated voyage? Keep an eye out for anyone with a problem being cooped up with other family members. If anyone is attacked, any major fights break out, any threats to throw the captain to the fish.....forget all about boats and buy a motorhome, instead. Larry -- Message for Comcrap Internet Customers: http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^:) |
Four questions from someone new to boating
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Four questions from someone new to boating
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On 19 Mar 2007 07:21:35 -0700, wrote: I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few minutes to answer one or all of them: a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about 3750nm)? Far more important than size is your own experience and preparation, as well as the preparation of the boat. You will get very little agreement on this question but my personal experience would dictate a heavily built boat over 40 ft in length. People have done it in far less, but comfort and relative safety increase with size, all other things being equal. You need to get *lots* of experience with coastal cruising and boat maintenance before you even think about crossing an ocean. While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. There are lots and lots of people who travel across oceans in boats shorter than 40 ft. It's not just about the length and full keel; it's also about having the proper equipment and reinforcing when you have to reinforce. Of course, bigger tends to be more comfortable. b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes the pros and cons of boat life? There are lots of books but most do not do a good job describing life at sea because that doesn't sell books. Forget romantic notions of idyllic passages. They exist but not as often as you read about. Being at sea in a small boat is not a walk in the park, and by small I'm talking about less than 200 feet. Weather forecasts are only accurate to about 5 days, so any voyage longer than that on open ocean incurs a high risk and probability of serious storm conditions (winds over 35 kts, breaking seas over 20 ft high). After a few hours of that you will want to be someplace else, just about anywhere else. Boats also require constant maintenance and you will spend a great deal of time repairing things and improvising, frequently in difficult conditions. Read Sailing All Seas by Dwight Long. A small boat, before all the fancy stuff. There are definitely weather winds when the chance of getting serious storms are greatly reduced, but you need to be prepared for the worst. Also, conversely, keep in mind that most people don't bring enough light wind sails, thinking I suppose that they'll err on the side of issues with bad weather. Don't forget your big sails. c) Do any of you live on your boats? Counting part time liveaboards (more than 3 or 4 weeks per year), quite a few. Some do, some don't. Right now, I don't... 3/4 days per week max right now. Has it's advantages and disadvantages both ways I suppose. d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem to loose half their value in five years. There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new. I agree.. totally. Kind of like cars... soon as you drive it off the new car lot, it drops dramatically in value. Used boat purchases aren't quite so bad. Thanks in advance, Terry. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Capt. JG wrote:
While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. I second that. Bigger is more comfortable when you don't have to do anything like handle sails or dock. Once your butt leaves the seat, bigger is more strain, more work, more expense, higher probability of hurting yourself. I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you need? Maintenance cost and effort go up roughly with the surface area which goes up roughly with the square of the length. Volume goes up with the cube and inevitibly gets filled up with stuff that also breaks down and needs to be worked on. Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, and go to really interesting places. -- Roger Long |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:23:48 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: I love my 32 footer. The ease of doing everything makes up for a bit more motion when I'm just hanging on. Less room in port but, how much do you need? I like boats in that size range also, owned a 34 for many years and it was a great boat for it's designed purpose. The few times that I took it off shore however we got the snot beat out of us in anything over 20 kts or so. The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not coastal cruising. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Capt. JG" wrote in
: While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. There are lots and lots of people who travel across oceans in boats shorter than 40 ft. It's not just about the length and full keel; it's also about having the proper equipment and reinforcing when you have to reinforce. Of course, bigger tends to be more comfortable. To go to England, I'd like to try one of those "heavily built" hulls designed by Roger Long for the research fleets, myself...(c; (Is that sucking up?....I hope so...(c;) Larry -- Message for Comcrap Internet Customers: http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^:) |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Wayne.B wrote:
The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not coastal cruising. Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject line made me overlook that. Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now. Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats eat up money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot of independent income, holding down the money drain by going small might be worth more discomfort in big seas. -- Roger Long |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in : While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. There are lots and lots of people who travel across oceans in boats shorter than 40 ft. It's not just about the length and full keel; it's also about having the proper equipment and reinforcing when you have to reinforce. Of course, bigger tends to be more comfortable. To go to England, I'd like to try one of those "heavily built" hulls designed by Roger Long for the research fleets, myself...(c; The Blanchard 33 that I sailed in heavy waters with in my teens had extra weight in the keel. We weren't one of the fastest boats around, but we sure plowed through the heavy seas pretty smoothly. Other than getting wet, I don't recall anything unpleasant about it. Even the water in the cockpit wasn't all that unpleasant thanks to foul weather gear. Stephen |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... Wayne.B wrote: The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not coastal cruising. Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject line made me overlook that. Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2) the right people. Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now. Donna Lange at least had a clue about what constitutes a seaworthy boat. Doesn't she sail a double ender Southern Cross? And, according to her website, she's not done with her circumnavigation just yet http://www.donnalange.com/statusupdate.html Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats eat up money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot of independent income, holding down the money drain by going small might be worth more discomfort in big seas. Finances are, indeed, important. But a seaworthy boat is more important. Better to spend the farm getting a decent boat even if you have to work your way around like old Joshua Slocum did. As for the OP. Forget about him/her. Just another ignorant dreamer without the right stuff. That's evident just from the ignorant questions in the short post. You can tell a lot about a person just by how the questions, even if answered in great detail, don't comprise a coherent body of thought or a particular direction. Wilbur Hubbard |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:44:47 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now. I think our requirements go up as we get older and smarter. :-) It's certainly true in my case. I would have probably taken off in any thing that floated in my 20s. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:44:47 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote: Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now. I think our requirements go up as we get older and smarter. :-) It's certainly true in my case. I would have probably taken off in any thing that floated in my 20s. It's got nothing to do with age, really. Just IQ. Look at all the idiots of all ages who buy MacGregor 26's, for example. Wilbur Hubbard |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... Wayne.B wrote: The OP was talking about crossing oceans and living aboard, not coastal cruising. Oh, so he was. Something about the "new to boating" in the subject line made me overlook that. Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2) the right people. Still, Donna Lange had completed her circumnavigation in a 28 footer and she probably didn't know any more four years ago than this fellow does now. Donna Lange at least had a clue about what constitutes a seaworthy boat. Doesn't she sail a double ender Southern Cross? And, according to her website, she's not done with her circumnavigation just yet http://www.donnalange.com/statusupdate.html Finances are key to that independent lifestyle he talks about. Boats eat up money fast as we all know only too well. Unless he has a lot of independent income, holding down the money drain by going small might be worth more discomfort in big seas. Finances are, indeed, important. But a seaworthy boat is more important. Better to spend the farm getting a decent boat even if you have to work your way around like old Joshua Slocum did. As for the OP. Forget about him/her. Just another ignorant dreamer without the right stuff. That's evident just from the ignorant questions in the short post. You can tell a lot about a person just by how the questions, even if answered in great detail, don't comprise a coherent body of thought or a particular direction. I don't think you can tell much about the person by the questions they ask, except for how little they know. Part of the difficulty of learning anything, no matter how smart you are, is asking the right questions. Basically everyone who is starting to learn something is virtually guaranteed to ask some stupid questions. It's people who refuse to ask stupid questions who stay stupid. Stephen |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Roger Long wrote:
Capt. JG wrote: While I generally agree, I think you can substitute "heavily built boat over 40 ft in length" with a good quality boat over 30 feet. I second that. Bigger is more comfortable when you don't have to do anything like handle sails or dock. Once your butt leaves the seat, bigger is more strain, more work, more expense, higher probability of hurting yourself. I went from a 32 foot simple boat to singlehanding a heavy 42 foot one with every system you can imagine. Docking the 42 in a current such as in Charleston City Marina was a heck of a chore and worrisome too. If I do it again, it'll be back to simple and smaller. It wasn't like the 42 was pleasant in a storm AND single handed reefing of a 450 foot mainsail wasn't for the faint of heart. -paul |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:56:07 +0000, Larry wrote:
Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts, you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my position aboard..... NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c; Larry Hi Larry, Agreed if going sailing is all you wish to do. Personally, what I like most about owning my own boat is the wonderful sense of freedom it affords me. I can go where I want to, when I want to; dollars and weather and the the bloody pirates and such scum aside. After years of working to pay mortgages, raising children etc, I love the freedom of looking out of my office window on a difficult day (when I work) and thinking. Well, if I don't want to do this there is simply nothing to stop me just raising the anchor and going somewhere else. I am not answerable to anyone apart from wife (for the time being anyway) friends and the obligation to the current work contract/sense of professional responsibility. cheers Peter |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:13:36 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... My memory is weak... what do you sail these days? My mini-cruiser.. http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm Here is a sister ship in the PNW http://fog-northamerica.org/puffin.html Leanne Compared to Australian and New Zealand prices (from memory) that is one cheap little boat. I have met a couple of boats of about that size that have crossed oceans. Nice yacht. \ cheers peter |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Dan Best" wrote in message ... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2) the right people. It's unfortunate that you posted such a stupid, irrelevant response. It completely discredited anything else of worth you might have said. As far as a response to the original poster's questions, we all have our opinions based on more or less experience. I happen to think that my Tayana 37, a moderately heavy displacement cutter makes a great compromise between the comforts (and costs) of a larger boat and the tight quarters & uncomfortable motions of a smaller and less expensive boat for the live-aboard, ocean crossing cruiser. I've done deliveries of larger boats, but never lived aboard them. I have lived aboard both my previous 30' coastal cruiser as well as the Tayana for extended periods and the difference in comfort that the 7 extra feet of overall length and 14,000 extra lb.s of displacement makes is huge. Dan Best The Tayana 37 is a fine voyaging boat. But, don't credit all her great seakeeping characteristics solely upon her displacement. It's more a matter of a good overall design. Usually good vessels have a respected naval architect who draws the lines and integrates the package. Check out this comparison between a Southern Cross 31 and a Tayana 37. Performance Comparison LOA Southern Cross 31 31 Tayana 37 Cutter 36.67 LWL Southern Cross 31 25 Tayana 37 Cutter 31 Beam Southern Cross 31 9.5 Tayana 37 Cutter 11.5 Displacement Southern Cross 31 13600 Tayana 37 Cutter 22500 Sail Area Southern Cross 31 447 Tayana 37 Cutter 861 Capsize Ratio Southern Cross 31 1.59 Tayana 37 Cutter 1.63 Hull Speed Southern Cross 31 6.7 Tayana 37 Cutter 7.46 SA/Disp Southern Cross 31 12.55 Tayana 37 Cutter 17.28 Disp/LWL Southern Cross 31 389 Tayana 37 Cutter 337 LWL/BeamSouthern Cross 31 2.63 Tayana 37 Cutter 2.7 Motion Comfort Southern Cross 31 38.8 Tayana 37 Cutter 40.78 Pounds/InchSouthern Cross 31 849 Tayana 37 Cutter 1274 Note in particular the motion comfort, capsize ratio and hull speeds. Not as much difference as one would think. One thing of note is the SA/Disp ratio which shows the Tayana with her cutter rig carries more sail. But who carries both head sails on a cutter in anything but light winds? Another thing that's not included is price. Probably for half the cost of a Tayana 37 one can buy a Southern Cross 31. If one is interested in economical and comfortable cruising, the Southern Cross is the better compromise. But if money is no object then the Tayana wins. Wilbur Hubbard |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Rest assured that anybody who posts to rec.boats.cruising to get advice will NEVER cross oceans. Too stupid to ask 1) the right questions, 2) the right people. It's unfortunate that you posted such a stupid, irrelevant response. It completely discredited anything else of worth you might have said. As far as a response to the original poster's questions, we all have our opinions based on more or less experience. I happen to think that my Tayana 37, a moderately heavy displacement cutter makes a great compromise between the comforts (and costs) of a larger boat and the tight quarters & uncomfortable motions of a smaller and less expensive boat for the live-aboard, ocean crossing cruiser. I've done deliveries of larger boats, but never lived aboard them. I have lived aboard both my previous 30' coastal cruiser as well as the Tayana for extended periods and the difference in comfort that the 7 extra feet of overall length and 14,000 extra lb.s of displacement makes is huge. Dan Best |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
It's got nothing to do with age, really. Just IQ. Look at all the idiots of all ages who buy MacGregor 26's, for example. Wilbur, you continue to make stupid, generalizing statements. I've never owned or even sailed a Mac 26, but it serves it's niche quite well. That that niche is not what I or you are looking for in a boat is immaterial. This boat is designed to hit a price point and to be used for a certain type of sailing and apparently does so quite well. Otherwise, far fewer of them would have been sold. The one owner that I used to know was quite happy with his. Dan Best |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Peter Hendra wrote in
: Larry, This is by far the best advice anyone could hear. Congratulations on a great posting and for taking the time to think about and write these words to someone you will probably never meet. You're quite welcome. Some of them bark quite loudly, especially yelling at the crew, shouting orders, in a race...but they don't hardly ever bite. Even then, it's all in good fun because Captain Blythe will take his crew to dinner and party, especially if the terrified crew (plus the boat's awful handicap) should result in a win!...(c; (It is fun crewing on a big, slow, clunky cruiser with a big party going on. Other crews laugh as they easily pass us and wonder why we're all smirking and smiling. They, obviously, haven't checked the race webpage to find out what the old, slow girl's handicap is. Hell, in order to beat us, they have to arrive two DAYS before we do!...(c; Somehow, from reading your postings when I get near the web over the past few years I had somehow imagined you to be possibly in your mid forties. Hell! You are two years older than me. I'm 61. Cap'n Geoffrey's 68, going on 29 after a few ales. We get along fabulously. I was introduced to him by another boater I was helping at the time, as me and the other guy were casually cruising the docks looking for someone to offer us free beer. We've been friends ever since. Cap'n call me. Says, "There's something on the chart table. Can you figure out how to hook it up? I got it at the Miami Boat Show." "It" is some new electronic gadget I can easily hook up....of course, assuming we can find a suitable space to mount its display/input device/mic/printer/plotter/drafting-table-sized marking device. We might have to dismount something that's 2 years old the "new" wore off of, but we'll make it fit. Cap'n is a fine wood craftsman. He's responsible for the custom cabinetry/mounting of anything new. I'm responsible for its electronics/electrical integration and software integration. I KNOW better than to say, "We already have one of these from XXXXXX. Why do we need two?" He always looks so disappointed, so we have several chartplotters (Garmin, Raymarine, Yeoman), compasses (B&G, Raymarine (both the compass sensor and smart heading sensor), GPS (Garmin, Raymarine WAAS-GPS), etc. As long as I don't have to pull another cable through the Nav to Helm wireway that's stuffed, I'm fine with it. The only thing Navy has we don't is weaponry. SHHHH....keep him away from boatshow weapon salesmen! Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts, you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my position aboard..... NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c; cheers and thanks Peter Hendra Cheers! Boddington's ok?....my favorite. Larry -- Message for Comcrap Internet Customers: http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^:) |
Four questions from someone new to boating
There are many, many used boats for sale. More supply than demand is the main reason, coupled with the fact that there are quite a few people, who for reasons of their own, will only buy new. Only one problem with this; 99% of those used boats have sat for over a year in the weather with not a damn thing done to them they are rotting in place and the folks selling them seem to think the boat gets more valuable with age and decay. why the heck do you think i keep asking for a boat in trade for teaching folks to build earthen houses. im gonna spend the cost of a new boat getting the darn thing sea worthy. i get tired of watching boats rot at the dock because the owners think it is still worth every bit of the 12,000 they paid for it ten years ago for the one day sailing excursion with the kids. and yes Larry that is probly the best post i've seen in a long time; and i wish you could post it to crewing sites as well. (I may be a power boat sailor but ive built a few boats and it hurts every time i see one rotting due to neglect; while a sailor is trying to figure out how to get a boat.) 2MT |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
The Tayana 37 is a fine voyaging boat. But, don't credit all her great seakeeping characteristics solely upon her displacement. It's more a matter of a good overall design. Usually good vessels have a respected naval architect who draws the lines and integrates the package. An excellent point and I couldn't agree with you more. Check out this comparison between a Southern Cross 31 and a Tayana 37. The Southern Cross 31 is a fine boat. Another one in that size range that I like is the Valiant 32 (watch out for those with severe blister problems though). The Valiant, like the Tayana happens to be another Bob Perry design. I guess there's just something about his work that esthetically appeals to me. Having spent the last two years living on the Tayana, I'd say that there are certainly things that I'd like to see be done differently, but by and large, the man knows how to design a functional live aboard. He's certainly not the only one who can do so (Brewer, Crealock and many others have designs that are just as good). In my mind, the size question has more to do with how much volume you need to be comfortable. Not just in living space, but also in storage space. My wife and I have often fantasized about how nice it would be to have something a little larger, say about 42' and a center cockpit (so we could have a nice aft cabin). We note how wonderful it would be to have all that extra storage space, a separate living quarters for when the kids visit us that doesn't entail someone sleeping on the kitchen table, etc.. But then I think of how much more work it is to maintain this boat than our 30 footer and imagining how much more work yet a 42 footer would be and I rapidly become again satisfied that the Tayana is just about perfect for us. Were I single handing, I think something in the 30' - 32' range would probably be just about perfect. Note in particular the motion comfort, Not to take away from your other valid points, and my memory could certainly be faulty about this, but I seem to recall reading an article somewhere written by Ted Brewer (who developed it) cautioning not to put too much credence in this index. Take care - Dan Best |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Larry" wrote in message ... Peter Hendra wrote in : Larry, This is by far the best advice anyone could hear. Congratulations on a great posting and for taking the time to think about and write these words to someone you will probably never meet. You're quite welcome. Some of them bark quite loudly, especially yelling at the crew, shouting orders, in a race...but they don't hardly ever bite. Even then, it's all in good fun because Captain Blythe will take his crew to dinner and party, especially if the terrified crew (plus the boat's awful handicap) should result in a win!...(c; (It is fun crewing on a big, slow, clunky cruiser with a big party going on. Other crews laugh as they easily pass us and wonder why we're all smirking and smiling. They, obviously, haven't checked the race webpage to find out what the old, slow girl's handicap is. Hell, in order to beat us, they have to arrive two DAYS before we do!...(c; Somehow, from reading your postings when I get near the web over the past few years I had somehow imagined you to be possibly in your mid forties. Hell! You are two years older than me. I'm 61. Cap'n Geoffrey's 68, going on 29 after a few ales. We get along fabulously. I was introduced to him by another boater I was helping at the time, as me and the other guy were casually cruising the docks looking for someone to offer us free beer. We've been friends ever since. Cap'n call me. Says, "There's something on the chart table. Can you figure out how to hook it up? I got it at the Miami Boat Show." "It" is some new electronic gadget I can easily hook up....of course, assuming we can find a suitable space to mount its display/input device/mic/printer/plotter/drafting-table-sized marking device. We might have to dismount something that's 2 years old the "new" wore off of, but we'll make it fit. Cap'n is a fine wood craftsman. He's responsible for the custom cabinetry/mounting of anything new. I'm responsible for its electronics/electrical integration and software integration. I KNOW better than to say, "We already have one of these from XXXXXX. Why do we need two?" He always looks so disappointed, so we have several chartplotters (Garmin, Raymarine, Yeoman), compasses (B&G, Raymarine (both the compass sensor and smart heading sensor), GPS (Garmin, Raymarine WAAS-GPS), etc. As long as I don't have to pull another cable through the Nav to Helm wireway that's stuffed, I'm fine with it. The only thing Navy has we don't is weaponry. SHHHH....keep him away from boatshow weapon salesmen! Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts, you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my position aboard..... NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c; cheers and thanks Peter Hendra Cheers! Boddington's ok?....my favorite. Larry -- Message for Comcrap Internet Customers: http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^:) I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest scale. At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you want to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour cruises in your harbour. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Don White" wrote in message ... I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest scale. At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you want to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour cruises in your harbour. I also had a deal like that on a Cape Dory 36, but the owner got to old for it, his words, but actually it was all of the maintenance. He sold it and went smaller to a little Fisher 25 motorsailer. A year later he came up with cancer and put the boat on the market. I have had my little ship, the biggest little cruiser, for 11 years now. Leanne s/vs. Fundy |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Leanne" wrote in message ... "Don White" wrote in message ... I had a deal somewhat like that for 5 years, although on a more modest scale. At some point you just want be be your own captain...especially if you want to try new cruising grounds and the boat owner is happy with 3 hour cruises in your harbour. I also had a deal like that on a Cape Dory 36, but the owner got to old for it, his words, but actually it was all of the maintenance. He sold it and went smaller to a little Fisher 25 motorsailer. A year later he came up with cancer and put the boat on the market. I have had my little ship, the biggest little cruiser, for 11 years now. Leanne s/vs. Fundy My memory is weak... what do you sail these days? My mini-cruiser.. http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:53:07 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: But if money is no object then the Tayana wins. Nonsense. If money is no object the Swan 48 wins. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On 21 Mar 2007 09:56:27 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote: Oh, there are a few true hermits who don't seem to need money. Their boats look it. More power to them. A boat is a LOT of WORK!...especially YOUR boat, the one with the clogged injector, stopped up head, leaky (pick anything that can leak here), broken (pick anything that can break here). I don't think it's a lot of freedom, at all. Doing it my way has a great advantage, the freedom to walk away without worry. Some times I don't go to the docks for weeks, sometimes months. I don't HAVE to check on boats I don't own. THAT's freedom! Larry I agree with that; however i would wonder how it is with sailboats as compaired with power boats. I have owned, leased, or been in charge of, a fishing boat, exploration boat, research vessel, for a really big part of my adult life. ya ive learned how to fix almost everything with duct tape and wire. but then i have abused the boats ive been on to get the job at hand done. are sail boats really that much more work than an old 30'-50' salmon troller or a 100' king crabber? Yes Larry, you are right. Boats always need money spending on them. But then so do cars, houses and lawnmowers, wives, children and girlfiends. Does anyone record in a profit and loss statement the cost of a wife? ( Quite possibly they should); or of the money spent on ones hobby or sport - golf clubs, computer gear, ham rigs and so on. Though I built my own boat and where possible, repair it myself, when I have to spend money on it or on things boating related, I don't begrudge it - I am not a billionaire. By the way "Two metre troll" Please enlighten my confusion. As I am not a native speaker of American English, are the fish your boats have been used for really 30 to 50 foot long salmon and 100 foot in span king crabs. Ours don't grow nearly that large. \ cheers Peter |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Don White" wrote in message ... My memory is weak... what do you sail these days? My mini-cruiser.. http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm Here is a sister ship in the PNW http://fog-northamerica.org/puffin.html Leanne |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Leanne" wrote in message ... "Don White" wrote in message ... My memory is weak... what do you sail these days? My mini-cruiser.. http://sailquest.com/market/models/spipe.htm Here is a sister ship in the PNW http://fog-northamerica.org/puffin.html Leanne Very nice...and practical for our cool damp climate on the North Atlantic. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
wrote:
I have been drawn to the idea of buying a boat, because of the independant lifestyle it brings. Here are some rather ignorant questions, and I would be very grateful to anyone who takes a few minutes to answer one or all of them: a) How big a boat is required to go from New York to England (about 3750nm)? As big as you can afford and small enough that you can single hand it. The kind of boat (how well built and how well equipped) is more important than the size, and the person sailing it is the most important thing in the equation b) If I wanted to learn more about boating, is there a book available by someone who captures what it is like to be at sea, and describes the pros and cons of boat life? I think the best book I've read on this is "Voyaging On A Small Income" by Annie Hill. It is in paperback. The danger with this book is that you will immediately want a junk rigged boat. Lin Pardey has written a lot of books on the pros and cons of boat life, but the disadvantage of those books is that they advocate a wooden boat with no engine, and that isn't really what most people can deal with. You could also read these logs http://www.thetwocaptains.com/logbook.htm These logs give a really good idea of how it is to sail to tropical places. However, I should add that both of these people have their captains licenses (that's why it is called "The Two Captains", so they are more than ordinarily competent sailors. Don was a pilot (airplane), and Gwen chartered her own boat in the USVI for a number of years and also is a SCUBA instructor. She's also writing a column for several magazines ATM which are also on her website. c) Do any of you live on your boats? Yes d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem to loose half their value in five years. Because people are stupid enough to buy a new boat which costs a lot of money. Same as with cars. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem to loose half their value in five years. Because people are stupid enough to buy a new boat which costs a lot of money. Same as with cars. Not all boats lose that much. In 1989, an Island Packet 31 listed at under $78,000. Today there is a 1989 on Yacht World for $74,000 and this is typical for IPs. Of course if you count inflation-- Still not bad for an 18 year old boat. Gordon |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Gordon" wrote in message ... d) Why does the value of boats fall off so fast? Some new boats seem to loose half their value in five years. Because people are stupid enough to buy a new boat which costs a lot of money. Same as with cars. Not all boats lose that much. In 1989, an Island Packet 31 listed at under $78,000. Today there is a 1989 on Yacht World for $74,000 and this is typical for IPs. Of course if you count inflation-- Still not bad for an 18 year old boat. Gordon Island Packet = the most overpriced boat in the industry. It's a good thing they have high resale value because you don't get your money's worth as far as quality of construction goes. Wilbur Hubbard |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Peter Hendra wrote in
: Personally, what I like most about owning my own boat is the wonderful sense of freedom it affords me. I can go where I want to, when I want to; dollars and weather and the the bloody pirates and such scum aside. I'm not quite so optimistic about it. Boating on a sailboat over 10' long is very burdensome. There's always something wrong with them, something that needs immediate attention...and immediate money. BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand (pounds, dollars, rupees, etc.). Those that can afford them that I know, are all saddled with chasing the dollars to keep them. Oh, there are a few true hermits who don't seem to need money. Their boats look it. More power to them. A boat is a LOT of WORK!...especially YOUR boat, the one with the clogged injector, stopped up head, leaky (pick anything that can leak here), broken (pick anything that can break here). I don't think it's a lot of freedom, at all. Doing it my way has a great advantage, the freedom to walk away without worry. Some times I don't go to the docks for weeks, sometimes months. I don't HAVE to check on boats I don't own. THAT's freedom! Larry -- Message for Comcrap Internet Customers: http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^:) |
Four questions from someone new to boating
Oh, there are a few true hermits who don't seem to need
money. Their boats look it. More power to them. A boat is a LOT of WORK!...especially YOUR boat, the one with the clogged injector, stopped up head, leaky (pick anything that can leak here), broken (pick anything that can break here). I don't think it's a lot of freedom, at all. Doing it my way has a great advantage, the freedom to walk away without worry. Some times I don't go to the docks for weeks, sometimes months. I don't HAVE to check on boats I don't own. THAT's freedom! Larry I agree with that; however i would wonder how it is with sailboats as compaired with power boats. I have owned, leased, or been in charge of, a fishing boat, exploration boat, research vessel, for a really big part of my adult life. ya ive learned how to fix almost everything with duct tape and wire. but then i have abused the boats ive been on to get the job at hand done. are sail boats really that much more work than an old 30'-50' salmon troller or a 100' king crabber? |
Four questions from someone new to boating
In article ,
Peter Hendra wrote: On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:56:07 +0000, Larry wrote: Peter, you don't need a boat. There are PLENTY of boats to play with/on/out of sitting on docks all over. Unless you just HAVE to have a family cruiser to take the kids out on, something none of the yachties want on their boats I know, spending all that cash on boats and upkeep is unnecessary. If you want to cruise around in some really nice yachts, you need a pleasant captain who, like my friend, would love to have someone he can trust to get her ready-for-sea...and pilot her most of the time...so he can enjoy his guests and family...rather than being strapped to the wheel all the time. I don't have that kind of money. I like my position aboard..... NOTHING beats taking the CAPTAIN'S VISA card to West Marine on a Saturday morning for a "few parts and replenishment spares".....(c; Larry Hi Larry, Agreed if going sailing is all you wish to do. Personally, what I like most about owning my own boat is the wonderful sense of freedom it affords me. I can go where I want to, when I want to; dollars and weather and the the bloody pirates and such scum aside. After years of working to pay mortgages, raising children etc, I love the freedom of looking out of my office window on a difficult day (when I work) and thinking. Well, if I don't want to do this there is simply nothing to stop me just raising the anchor and going somewhere else. I am not answerable to anyone apart from wife (for the time being anyway) friends and the obligation to the current work contract/sense of professional responsibility. I do a lot of my "regular" work from my boat.. good, fast connection. Sometimes, I just stow all the crap and have a sail for a couple. Works wonders. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
Four questions from someone new to boating
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:14:13 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: Island Packet = the most overpriced boat in the industry. It's a good thing they have high resale value because you don't get your money's worth as far as quality of construction goes. Usually, in fact always, high resale value equates to high demand? Why is that? There must be something about them that people like. |
Four questions from someone new to boating
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:14:13 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Island Packet = the most overpriced boat in the industry. It's a good thing they have high resale value because you don't get your money's worth as far as quality of construction goes. Usually, in fact always, high resale value equates to high demand? Why is that? There must be something about them that people like. It's the same thing that drives the sale of MacGregor 26s. Ignorance! People buy into the hype. People who buy them aren't really sailors. They are campers. They enjoy going to rallys where they make giant raft-ups. (Who does than with a real boat, anyway? That's the very last thing I'd ever do with my boat. It's just plain stupid, dangerous and dumb!) They motor up and down the Intracoastal Waterway. The polish and shine and add every gadget in the catalog. Those Island Packets are poor performers empty. Load them down and they can't get out of their own way. There are better boats out there at less than half the cost. Wilbur Hubbard |
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