RW Salnick wrote:
But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.

* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:23 PM:
Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

30K pounds seems like a lot. There are hundreds of 38+ foot boats In
the USA for under that, and a quick search of YachtWorld shows a
number in the UK. For instance, a '97 Dehler 41 asking 29K would be a
fine boat, and more likely to hold its value than an ugly wooden boat.

One point in your calculations: if your cash flow is less with the
glass boat, why not take out a shorter loan? That way you'd be a full
owner or a quality boat in 6-7 years.


* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:55 PM:
Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

Jeff wrote:
30K pounds seems like a lot. There are hundreds of 38+ foot boats In
the USA for under that, and a quick search of YachtWorld shows a number
in the UK. For instance, a '97 Dehler 41 asking 29K would be a fine
boat, and more likely to hold its value than an ugly wooden boat.

Yes, holding its value is an interesting point. But I'd tried to
include that in the annual maintenance cost, so that at the end of 3
years the value would be equal.

One point in your calculations: if your cash flow is less with the glass
boat, why not take out a shorter loan? That way you'd be a full owner
or a quality boat in 6-7 years.

Well I'd calculated how long I'd need the loan for to make it roughly
the same monthly payment. The figures were really back-of-envelope.

biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of
this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...


Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.


No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick inscribed in red ink for all to know:
biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:

RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead
of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...



Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no
bare wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to
be a great example of beautiful wood.



No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below
the waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh
water, and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start
on the inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below the
waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh water,
and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start on the
inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

Fresh water kills wooden boats. Which is why woodie owners often keep salt
blocks in the bilges.

KLC Lewis wrote:
"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below the
waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh water,
and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start on the
inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

Fresh water kills wooden boats. Which is why woodie owners often keep salt
blocks in the bilges.



After 38 years, the bilge of my woodie is well pickled with
antifreeze, oil, sal****er and you name it. And yes, a little rock salt
in there doesn't hurt.
G

After 38 years, the bilge of my woodie is well pickled with
antifreeze, oil, sal****er and you name it. And yes, a little rock salt
in there doesn't hurt.

What no disel ?

Ummmm, ever wonder how to describe that "boat smell" to a non-wood
boat person ?!? I think you just did.

And dont forget a few scews, cut nylon zip ties, wood shavings, and
what didn't disolve of that 10mm wrench.
Bob