On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight, so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect. Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

Bob .. strip plank is Strip Plank ..

No, it is not lap stake.

Seriously,, if you don't know the difference between a strip plank and lap
stake constructed wooden boat ...

Your not ignorant, just uninformed about wooden boats.

=========================================
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 7, 6:10 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wood strip construction is strips of wood, say 2" by 2" which is screwed
together as it is assembled on the frame of the boat. The strips are
also
screwed to the frame. Because you are using smaller pieces of wood than
carvel, no bending [ not much anyway ] and the strips are butted tight,
so
no big seams to fill.

is this what some people call "Lap Strake"


Check out the West System site. When Gougen [ spelling?? ] first got
started in epoxy, I believe they used the epoxy with strip plank.

Yes, good book . I bought one in 1982.


I am no expert but I think cold molding uses larger wood such as a
plywood
layed across another piece of wood.

that is one way. the G bros describe using cedar vener about 4"x 1/8"
Basically making your own plywood.

then there is what I hear called strip construction. common on a canoe


To your statement about epoxy and wood .. and the Ugh word.
Do you paint your wood? Would you paint your wood if you have a wood
boat?

just the outside. on my old sprit sailed swampscott sailing dory
(Chappell) I used turpintine-linsed oil- pine tar.

Epoxy is a good covering, better than paint. Both seal and protect.
Epoxy
does it better.

now that statment opens a can of worms im sure some would debate. It
all about intended use.


I think you need to do some reading on wooden boats. Your ignorance of
the
subject is evident.

My dear poster. Did i call you ignorant? Did i even suggest that you
were stupid?

Diffrent regions use similar words to describe diffrent things. in
this case boat construction.

from my humble experince I would use epoxy on a plywood bottom. But
never on a 58' carvel planked bottom.
but I guess you forgot to detemine what we were actually talking about
before deciding to call me ignorant.

GFY

biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
Hi group

OK, now I've exhausted my search around usenet and the wider web for
information on this topic I thought I'd post for some fresh thoughts and
ideas.

I'm considering buying a wooden boat as a liveaboard, and I have some
major concerns. Almost everyone I come across - surveyors, brokers,
finance houses, insurance companies, usenet posters - seems to balk at
it to lesser or greater degrees. It seems established that they require
regular and vigilant maintenance. I don't want to buy a money pit, and
two marinas I've come across are so fed up with people abandoning wooden
boats they won't allow them. Any thoughts on this?

I've been quoted GBP950 (about $1800) for a survey on the hard, and the
surveyor will do an initial walk-through to see if it's worth going
ahead even to that stage. It's 45 feet long, and is carvel constructed.
I don't yet know the year or specific hull material. The beams are
about 2" x 2". I'm going to go along tomorrow and try to have as many
of the floorboards up as possible so that I can go through with a
bradawl and check for sponginess.

Think I should not risk it and try and find myself a nice tongue in
cheekeasy/ steel-shell?

Biz

If you are interested in learning and applying the craft of wooden boat
building, you can have a very nice boat for surprisingly little initial
outlay.

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

bob
s/v Eolian (fiberglass)
Seattle

RW Salnick wrote:
But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the work..
there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to turn back
into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...

Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.

* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:23 PM:
Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

30K pounds seems like a lot. There are hundreds of 38+ foot boats In
the USA for under that, and a quick search of YachtWorld shows a
number in the UK. For instance, a '97 Dehler 41 asking 29K would be a
fine boat, and more likely to hold its value than an ugly wooden boat.

One point in your calculations: if your cash flow is less with the
glass boat, why not take out a shorter loan? That way you'd be a full
owner or a quality boat in 6-7 years.


* biz wrote, On 3/8/2007 6:55 PM:
Jeff wrote:

It sounds like you don't want a wooden boat because of the aesthetics,
but to save money. So how much do you figure you'll save?

OK, let's do some sums:

Wooden boat:

boat: 12k
survey: 1k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 3k
TOTAL initial outlay: 16.3k
Annual haul-out: 0.3k
Annual work: 3k
Annual insurance: 0.5k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 8k

End of 3 year loan have asset worth 12k.

GRP/steel boat:

boat: 30k
survey: 0.4k
haul-out: 0.3k
initial work: 0.5k
TOTAL initial outlay: 31.2k
Annual haul-out: 0.1k
Annual work: 1k
Annual insurance: 0.3k
Annual loan repayment: 4.5k
TOTAL annual cost: 5.9k

End of 3 years, have 30% stake in a 30k boat, 7 years left on mortgage.

Figures seem fair? sorry, all these are in pounds sterling. Roughly
double the numbers for $, isn't it these days?

biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:
RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead of
this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...


Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no bare
wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to be
a great example of beautiful wood.


No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick inscribed in red ink for all to know:
biz inscribed in red ink for all to know:

RW Salnick wrote:

But others have made the point: You had best be ready to do the
work.. there will be a lot of it. Wooden boats want very much to
turn back into mulch. It will be your responsibility to stay ahead
of this process.

All that taken into consideration, a well cared for wooden boat is
truely a thing of beauty...



Thanks for that Bob

Just a thought, but is the horrific amount of work on wooden boats
people keep talking about because their experiences have involved
maintaining varnished wood? I mean the boat I'm considering has no
bare wood at all. The superstructure is all made from ply and painted
several coats of battleship grey!

I know a few wooden dinghy owners who spend a lot of time sanding and
varnishing their dinghies, but surely if you just slap a load of paint
all over it that's lower maintenance than keeping up the healthy
polished wooden look? My boat in question is certainly not going to
be a great example of beautiful wood.



No, the work I am referring to is staying ahead of rot. Any place where
fresh water can get to the wood will eventually rot. So sealing board
edges and seams is an extremely critical act. And it is made difficult
by the movement of the wood in response to changing temperatures,
changing humidity, and the normal flexing that happens as the boat moves
over waves. You must stay ahead of it. On a painted boat, the first
sign of rot is often paint bubbling up - kind of like what you'd see on
a car when rust is going on under the paint (if you are an old car buff,
you'll know what I mean).

Varnishing is a whole 'nother thing...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below
the waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh
water, and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start
on the inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
replying to my own message

I should add that having the boat in salt water helps, because wood in
salt water doesn't rot. You'd think that would protect the boat below the
waterline, but don't forget that bilge water is frequently fresh water,
and condensation definitely is, so the failure can actually start on the
inside.

Keeping the boat in a boat house (if it is not a sail boat) will help by
keeping off the rain.

bob

Fresh water kills wooden boats. Which is why woodie owners often keep salt
blocks in the bilges.