Ronald Raygun wrote in
. uk:

Many engines are fitted with electric glow-plug preheaters. I don't
think they heat the injectors, but part of the combustion chamber.

Glow plugs are situated in the path of the spray pattern of the injector,
usually in a pre-combustion chamber which not only makes the engine much
easier to start, but much quieter to run.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/190d/images/lvp.gif
Here's the precombustion chamber of a Mercedes Benz 190D diesel. The
glowplug is the gold pin right under the spray head. It heats red hot
just before the engine starts, causing the fuel to explode reliably as
soon as it is injected, by the injector directly above it. It continues
to glow, as does the grey resonator under it while the engine is running,
not by the electrical current, but by the last time the fuel exploded.

The explosion happens in the precombustion chamber and an immense
pressure pushes the explosion into the air charge down in the cylinder
through those tiny holes, maybe 1/8" diameter, in a radial pattern on top
of the piston to balance the pressure on the piston top. After 25 years
of constant use, my '73 220D sedan's little 57hp diesel piston had 5
little tracks across the top of the piston showing where the explosion
went by it at TDC on ever other stroke. I couldn't get over how small
these holes are and how clean they stayed all those years when we
overhauled it at about 250,000 miles. It really only needed new rings.

Notice in MB cars, the whole chamber screws out so it can be easily
replaced if it cracks under the pressure. Smart, very smart.

All this is done to reduce the compression necessary to start it cold and
run it QUIETLY in a nice car. It ran fine on vegetable oil going to
breakfast with my old friends, this very morning...(c;


Larry
--
Have a little fun in the checkout line....
Ask the nearest American, "Did you see the ICE
agents chasing those Mexicans out the back door?"
....Shortens that checkout line right up...(c;

In article ,
"Ted Bell" wrote:

When it's very cold I have a hard time cranking my diesel. I was
wondering if I put Tilley wicks saturated in meths around the injectors
and lit them if it would warm up the injectors enough to vaporize the
fuel better. Anybody ever try it?

I'm Ted Bell!


You don't need to heat the FUEL, you need to heat the AIR......

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

"Dennis Pogson" wrote:

Ted Bell wrote:
When it's very cold I have a hard time cranking my diesel. I was
wondering if I put Tilley wicks saturated in meths around the
injectors and lit them if it would warm up the injectors enough to
vaporize the fuel better. Anybody ever try it?

I'm Ted Bell!

Perhaps a hot air gun would be safer! If you are on a mooring of course you
have fewer options,

We use block heaters for our diesel cars. I've also heard of just
using a light bulb under the hood. It depends on what "very cold"
means to you. Maybe a solar panel connected to the engine block
would do it.

The truckers do something similar with their engines - I think they
use ether or something.

Starting Fluid (Ether) can be very BAD for diesel engines. It is NOT
recommended for any diesel that has GlowPlugs, or Intake Manifold
Heaters. Diesel Engines only need two things to run. FUEL, and Hot
AIR. Hot Air is the easiest to come by. Politicos like diesels, as
they ALWAYS have a lot of Hot AIR available....... Now back to the
topic at hand. A little Propane Torch will emit plenty of HOT AIR,
into ANY diesel engines Intake Manifold, to give you an easy start,
clear down to -30F. Just remember, to remove the Air Filter, BEFORE
you light the torch, as they tend to catch fire and burn up.
Momma's Hair Dryer also works well for providing Hot AIR, to start
cold diesels. Ever wonder why most LongHaul Truckers have Propane
Torches and Hair Dryers in the Toolkits? 10,000 Truckers can't all be
wrong.


Bruce in alaska generates all my own power, via Diesel Gensets
--
add a 2 before @

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ted Bell" wrote:

When it's very cold I have a hard time cranking my diesel. I was
wondering if I put Tilley wicks saturated in meths around the
injectors
and lit them if it would warm up the injectors enough to vaporize the
fuel better. Anybody ever try it?

I'm Ted Bell!


You don't need to heat the FUEL, you need to heat the AIR......

It seems like that's the majority opinion. But no matter how hot the air
it won't burn all by itself. You must have atomized fuel injected into
the hot air. All the suggestions about pre-heating the air only make
sense provided the fuel hasn't turned to wax from the extreme cold. It's
quite difficult to inject wax, I would think. Wax doesn't burn until it
turns into a liquid. This is evident when one lights a candle. Once the
motor runs for a bit it heats the fuel quite nicely because of the way
it re-circulates it through the system. But what's to keep fuel that
might not be winterized properly from clogging up the works before it
gets warmed up? Maybe the answer is a fuel tank heater and a stout lever
on the fuel pump to pump the warm fuel round.

I'm Ted Bell!

On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:48:05 -0500, "Ted Bell"
wrote:


If I've read it right a diesel compresses the air to a very great
extent. The compression heats the air so much that fuel self-ignites
when injected into the hot air. Even if it's very cold it's my
understanding the compressed air is still hot enough to ignite the fuel.
So it seems to me if the fuel doesn't ignite maybe it's because it's so
cold and thick that the injectors don't spray it in properly. Maybe just
dribbles of larger droplets that are reluctant to burn. So heating the
injectors seems like it would take care of that problem. Sort of the
same principle that a pressure diesel stove uses to pre-heat the fuel.
Meths don't burn all that hot so although it might blacken the paint I
can't see where it would damage the injector. I think I'll give it a go.
. .

Thanks to all who responded.

I'm Ted Bell!

I don't think heating the accessible parts of the injectors will do
much good - the nozzle is deep inside the head, and the body of the
injector passes through metal immersed in the cooling water, so very
little heat will make it to the injector nozzle.




--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver BC, Canada
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Anti-gell works wonders in diesel fuel during cold winter months.

"Ted Bell" wrote in message
...

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ted Bell" wrote:

When it's very cold I have a hard time cranking my diesel. I was
wondering if I put Tilley wicks saturated in meths around the injectors
and lit them if it would warm up the injectors enough to vaporize the
fuel better. Anybody ever try it?

I'm Ted Bell!


You don't need to heat the FUEL, you need to heat the AIR......

It seems like that's the majority opinion. But no matter how hot the air
it won't burn all by itself. You must have atomized fuel injected into the
hot air. All the suggestions about pre-heating the air only make sense
provided the fuel hasn't turned to wax from the extreme cold. It's quite
difficult to inject wax, I would think. Wax doesn't burn until it turns
into a liquid. This is evident when one lights a candle. Once the motor
runs for a bit it heats the fuel quite nicely because of the way it
re-circulates it through the system. But what's to keep fuel that might
not be winterized properly from clogging up the works before it gets
warmed up? Maybe the answer is a fuel tank heater and a stout lever on the
fuel pump to pump the warm fuel round.

I'm Ted Bell!

KLC Lewis wrote:
Anti-gell works wonders in diesel fuel during cold winter months.

"Ted Bell" wrote in message
...
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ted Bell" wrote:

When it's very cold I have a hard time cranking my diesel. I was
wondering if I put Tilley wicks saturated in meths around the injectors
and lit them if it would warm up the injectors enough to vaporize the
fuel better. Anybody ever try it?

I'm Ted Bell!

You don't need to heat the FUEL, you need to heat the AIR......
It seems like that's the majority opinion. But no matter how hot the air
it won't burn all by itself. You must have atomized fuel injected into the
hot air. All the suggestions about pre-heating the air only make sense
provided the fuel hasn't turned to wax from the extreme cold. It's quite
difficult to inject wax, I would think. Wax doesn't burn until it turns
into a liquid. This is evident when one lights a candle. Once the motor
runs for a bit it heats the fuel quite nicely because of the way it
re-circulates it through the system. But what's to keep fuel that might
not be winterized properly from clogging up the works before it gets
warmed up? Maybe the answer is a fuel tank heater and a stout lever on the
fuel pump to pump the warm fuel round.

I'm Ted Bell!



And speaking of using starting fluid, My neighbor was trying to start
a turbo diesel backhoe with ether. Can you imagine a turbo full of
ether? I stopped him before the explosion.
G

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
:

While possibly not recommended, a friend with a diesel Mercedes of
ancient vintage once had me spray WD-40 into his engine intake while
he cranked the motor. Being essentially kerosene, this would be much
safer than ether, I think.



WD40 USED to be flammable...I don't think that's true, now.

I use 15W-40 Rotella T in my cars/truck and the boats. Of course, it
doesn't get that cold here. Ask Bruce in Alaska what they use up there,
where the REAL test weather conditions occur...(shudder)

Mercedes specifically forbids spraying ANY kind of starting fluid into the
gullet of their diesel engines, which is just suicide waiting to happen.
Your friend needed to get his GLOW PLUGS FIXED....

Larry
--
Have a little fun in the checkout line....
Ask the nearest American, "Did you see the ICE
agents chasing those Mexicans out the back door?"
....Shortens that checkout line right up...(c;

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
:

While possibly not recommended, a friend with a diesel Mercedes of
ancient vintage once had me spray WD-40 into his engine intake while
he cranked the motor. Being essentially kerosene, this would be much
safer than ether, I think.



WD40 USED to be flammable...I don't think that's true, now.

I use 15W-40 Rotella T in my cars/truck and the boats. Of course, it
doesn't get that cold here. Ask Bruce in Alaska what they use up there,
where the REAL test weather conditions occur...(shudder)

Mercedes specifically forbids spraying ANY kind of starting fluid into the
gullet of their diesel engines, which is just suicide waiting to happen.
Your friend needed to get his GLOW PLUGS FIXED....

Larry
--

Well, ya -- getting the glow plugs fixed would have helped, but would have
put a crimp in his beer budget.

In article , Larry
wrote:
Derek Moody wrote in news:ant051635965BxcK@half-
baked-idea.co.uk:

A
cautious squirt of ether can help too but mustn't be overdone.


Not enough can be said for NOT squirting explosives into the intake of a
small, LIGHTLY MADE diesel engine. DON'T DO THIS! Notice it says not to
do this right in the manual!

We appear to be talking about engines big enough to require starter motors,
I agree that tiny one or two cylinder jobs wouldn't like it (I said a
cautious squirt and into a fast spinning engine but you snipped that bit.)
With a really small engine hand cranking to help the starter is a much
better idea.

Diesels run on the heat of compression. There are two ways of
artificially creating this SAFELY when they are cold.....preheat the
cylinders, preferably with glow plugs...or preheat the air, preferably
with an air pre-heater in the intake. HEATING THE FUEL DOES NOT MAKE

And if you have either fitted you don't need other heating...

The heat gun is a great idea if you have a power source to run it from.

As always there is a pay off between heated air (lower mass of air per
inspired volume) and heat of compression. The engine block in winter is a
massive lump of over-chilled heatsink, anything to get a little heat in
there will help.

The usual reason why they won't start is THE COMPRESSION IS TOO LOW or
THE ENGINE DOESN'T SPIN FAST ENOUGH....both of which, of course, require

If you have a small heater than it might be better used to warm your
batteries to make sure you're getting maximum starter speed.

Elsewhere in this thread are comments about winterising/waxing up of fuel.
While this is all true for diesels in general I doubt it makes any
noticeable difference to vessels afloat in British waters. The tank, engine
compartment, and fuel lines are almost always at least partially below the
water line and so rarely get much below harbour-water temperature which in
turn will usually be above zero even in sal****er.

I have never tried this but it occurs to me that a couple of kettles' full
of hot water poured slowly over the block (might as well add detergent and
break out a scrubbing brush) would transfer heat as well as anything.

Cheerio,

--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/