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Lavac heads vs. others
To Peggie and the head heads:
I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan, so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I assume I can buy anything I want here. Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap and cheerful. I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep) and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt (why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for "weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with no complaint, or so I hear. If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of you-know-what. Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic. R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
OK, I've had a Lavac for 4 years now and have completely mixed feelings about. On my
previous boat I had a nice W-C model which I was surprised to find out is well regarded! Someday I'll find the perfect head. One problem with the Lavac is that its not for amateurs. A guest will not know what to do with it. It seems so easy - close the lid and push the button (we have an electric). But the lid tends to stay locked by the vacuum for a long time (this depends on the geometry of the intake hose - ours is a long run) and no one but me can open it. If you have a different guest each weekend this might not be the best for you. The head unit itself has no moving parts so it is virtually indestructible. The pump is a pretty standard Henderson Mark 5 so you can get spares pretty easy. We use the electric pump, but I also carry two manual pumps for fast swap outs - I can strip down and replace the pump in about 20 minutes. The claim is that the Henderson can pass just about anything, but we found that the "instant dissolve" toilet paper is necessary, and the vacuum system is not, as is sometimes claimed, a replacement for a macerator. ( A bad case of constipation may require manual maceration!) This season it clogged 4 times in 8 days, until I discovered I had installed a "manual" flapper instead of the "electric" version. The extra few grams of the electric version helps it seal better. BTW, the manual pump was OK for short trips, but when we moved on board I broke down and got the electric. Expensive, but cheaper than physical therapy for "pumper's elbow." It comes with a timer, but I also wired a manual switch so you can run it 5 seconds. As for water usage, I've always heard it uses less than most, not more. I don't know what others take, but our alleged 35 gallon (US) tank fills in 6 days with 3 people on board. So, you may be wondering if I still like it? Yes, I think its better than most, and for all the little hassles its been easier to maintain than a normal head. However, the next boat I setup I might go for a Vacuflush! -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com "The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at the deli." wrote in message ... To Peggie and the head heads: I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan, so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I assume I can buy anything I want here. Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap and cheerful. I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep) and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt (why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for "weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with no complaint, or so I hear. If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of you-know-what. Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic. R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:25:35 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote: Blake, whose "Baby Blake" compact toilet is one of the best in the world--arguably better than the W-C Skipper...both built to have lifespans measured in centuries if maintained--and with price tags to match...about $1000. Very true,,,,, Owners of Baby Blakes (mostly) swear by them except if they need to buy bits when they/we swear at them. I'm just fitting a new inlet pump body,the old one was split by frost, my fault, lack of proper lay up. The last inch or so of the pump stays full of water and an inch of frozen water splits bronze. The new one cost £130+. Have you seen the GOLD PLATED version? £2000 plus. For that sort of money I'd expect the man from Blakes to come and use it for me. Like the Queen, it's well known she never uses the toilet. She has people to do that sort of thing for her. ;) Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203 |
Lavac heads vs. others
Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments.
Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:02:34 -0400, wrote: To Peggie and the head heads: I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan, so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I assume I can buy anything I want here. Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap and cheerful. I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep) and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt (why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for "weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with no complaint, or so I hear. If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of you-know-what. Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic. R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
"yes" wrote in message
... Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Do you have any personal experiance? Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. They make a normal size and a compact. It is true that you can't use a "Home Depot" seat with it. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The seats aren't painted. The seals are non-marking white rubber and I've never seen a mark. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. They don't get badly slimed unless the pump flapper is jammed. The same thing can happen on any head, often worse. The underside of the seat should be wiped down every few days, depending on the use. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. Don't kneel on them. They do flex with the vacuum, but mine hasen't broken in four years, and a friend has one that must be 15 years old. They cost $100, and should probably be considered an appropriate spare if you're leaving the realm of FedEx. Seals are a must. Also pump spares, but the Henderson parts can be easily had. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. As I've said, they are not for transients. |
Lavac heads vs. others
Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more?
Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others. It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in real heads or home toilets. It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean. Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also. BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as long as home use. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:41:49 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: "yes" wrote in message .. . Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Do you have any personal experiance? Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. They make a normal size and a compact. It is true that you can't use a "Home Depot" seat with it. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The seats aren't painted. The seals are non-marking white rubber and I've never seen a mark. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. They don't get badly slimed unless the pump flapper is jammed. The same thing can happen on any head, often worse. The underside of the seat should be wiped down every few days, depending on the use. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. Don't kneel on them. They do flex with the vacuum, but mine hasen't broken in four years, and a friend has one that must be 15 years old. They cost $100, and should probably be considered an appropriate spare if you're leaving the realm of FedEx. Seals are a must. Also pump spares, but the Henderson parts can be easily had. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. As I've said, they are not for transients. |
Lavac heads vs. others
"Baja-Mo" wrote in message
... Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more? Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others. it looks doubtful ... It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in real heads or home toilets. The Lavac Zenith seat is slightly larger than an American Standard seat, the Popular is slightly smaller. The differences are less than 1/2 inch. It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean. Hasn't happened to us in 4 years years of use. If it start to show wear maybe I'll spring for a new seat - its only $24. Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also. As I said the seals are a necessary spare. For the Popular, a complete set of seat, lid, and both seals is $88. The Zenith lid & seat is more expensive. Its a myth the the seat and seals are "necessary." The pump will empty the bowl even it it can't form a vacuum. The vacuum is needed to draw water in. In a pinch, the head still functions without a seal. I keep a cup nearby so that if the previous user didn't pump enough to draw seawater in, I can add some. BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as long as home use. I paid $9.98 last week, but that was for a "Sky Blue" seat. But what's the point? Obviously part of the process of chosing any piece of gear you have to include the cost of all appropriate spares. The seat is one of the key components of the Lavac, $48 for a lid and seat is not that outrageous. |
Lavac heads vs. others
My point was to get some truth and facts into the discussion - instead
of the gloss over that is happening. In fact, the Zenith seat is slightly smaller than an American standard toilet seat - see http://www.lavac.com/parts-list.htm and the Popular model is smaller still. In fact a Zenith replacement seat costs $108 and a Zenith replacement lid costs $108 and each seal costs $18 and a pump kit costs $46 - so a spare parts kit for a toilet is $298 - see URL above. Now everybody can see that you need not only spare pumps and pump kits but also spare lids and seal sets when cruising. $300 in spares for your toilet. Why not just be factual instead of quoting the most favorable numbers and glossing over the real facts. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: "Baja-Mo" wrote in message .. . Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more? Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others. it looks doubtful ... It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in real heads or home toilets. The Lavac Zenith seat is slightly larger than an American Standard seat, the Popular is slightly smaller. The differences are less than 1/2 inch. It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean. Hasn't happened to us in 4 years years of use. If it start to show wear maybe I'll spring for a new seat - its only $24. Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also. As I said the seals are a necessary spare. For the Popular, a complete set of seat, lid, and both seals is $88. The Zenith lid & seat is more expensive. Its a myth the the seat and seals are "necessary." The pump will empty the bowl even it it can't form a vacuum. The vacuum is needed to draw water in. In a pinch, the head still functions without a seal. I keep a cup nearby so that if the previous user didn't pump enough to draw seawater in, I can add some. BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as long as home use. I paid $9.98 last week, but that was for a "Sky Blue" seat. But what's the point? Obviously part of the process of chosing any piece of gear you have to include the cost of all appropriate spares. The seat is one of the key components of the Lavac, $48 for a lid and seat is not that outrageous. |
Lavac heads vs. others
The Popular seat is the same length and half an inch narrower than the A-S:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images...7977-specs.png The Zenith is a half inch wider. You may be looking at the width of the bowl. The Zenith Seats and Lids are $99 at Defender; the Popular is $24 each, as I said. For most cruisers only the seals and the pump kit is needed - this is well under $100. If you feel the need to carry a seat and lid, that is an extra $48 for the Popular, but $198 for the Zenith. I believe the Zenith cover is rather tough and not likely to break. The issue with the seat is that some users report discoloration. Yes, if you want the complete replacement of every part of the top of the line model, it can be pricey. For most cruisers its not too different from other repair kits. I'm not making this up- I'm really just giving the real numbers for my Lavac. The seals and pump kit is under $100, the lid and seat (which I don't carry a spare for) is $48. "yes" wrote in message ... My point was to get some truth and facts into the discussion - instead of the gloss over that is happening. In fact, the Zenith seat is slightly smaller than an American standard toilet seat - see http://www.lavac.com/parts-list.htm and the Popular model is smaller still. In fact a Zenith replacement seat costs $108 and a Zenith replacement lid costs $108 and each seal costs $18 and a pump kit costs $46 - so a spare parts kit for a toilet is $298 - see URL above. Now everybody can see that you need not only spare pumps and pump kits but also spare lids and seal sets when cruising. $300 in spares for your toilet. Why not just be factual instead of quoting the most favorable numbers and glossing over the real facts. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: "Baja-Mo" wrote in message .. . Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more? Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others. it looks doubtful ... It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in real heads or home toilets. The Lavac Zenith seat is slightly larger than an American Standard seat, the Popular is slightly smaller. The differences are less than 1/2 inch. It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean. Hasn't happened to us in 4 years years of use. If it start to show wear maybe I'll spring for a new seat - its only $24. Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also. As I said the seals are a necessary spare. For the Popular, a complete set of seat, lid, and both seals is $88. The Zenith lid & seat is more expensive. Its a myth the the seat and seals are "necessary." The pump will empty the bowl even it it can't form a vacuum. The vacuum is needed to draw water in. In a pinch, the head still functions without a seal. I keep a cup nearby so that if the previous user didn't pump enough to draw seawater in, I can add some. BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as long as home use. I paid $9.98 last week, but that was for a "Sky Blue" seat. But what's the point? Obviously part of the process of chosing any piece of gear you have to include the cost of all appropriate spares. The seat is one of the key components of the Lavac, $48 for a lid and seat is not that outrageous. |
Lavac heads vs. others
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:25:35 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote: wrote: To Peggie and the head heads: I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan, so feel free to make a case. Hold the phone...I don't "vend" ANYTHING...I sold my company to Raritan, but I have no relationship with them or any other company. My apologies...I am obviously working on old and possibly incomplete information. I call 'em as I see 'em (which is why I don't have a relationship with any mfr...they all tend to get just a wee bit testy when an employee recommends a competitor's product over their own). I do like MOST Raritan products, but I'm not alone in that...PS and everyone else who tests equipment rates 'em the best bang for the buck too, especially the manual PH II. I'll check it out...if I can see one "live" around here. Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts salvaged from another Bryson. Not that it matters, but you mean Brydon--a version the Jabsco manual that was made in Canada under licensing agreement. If today's Jabsco toilets were built even half as well as the Brydon Boy was, they'd outlast most PH IIs. Correct...Brydon is the one. I *did* say I rebuilt it into a FrankenHead from a salvaged one...but that can't last forever, so I am looking for a better solution. planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap and cheerful. The Lavac is an excellent toilet...made by Blake, whose "Baby Blake" compact toilet is one of the best in the world--arguably better than the W-C Skipper...both built to have lifespans measured in centuries if maintained--and with price tags to match...about $1000. Thank God the Canadian dollar is past 75 cents U.S.,,,,eek. But as Jeff said, the Lavac is NOT child/landlubber guest-friendly...instead, about as intimidating to 'em as the toilet on submarine would be. So while it's an excellent choice for adult blue-water cruisers, I can't recommend it for the typical "weekend warrior" sailor. I don't have guests usually, as the type of trips we take tend to be about sailing, not ferrying a booze crew around G. Also, at dock I tend to send 'em up to the clubhouse with a "scary head" story...I don't like pumping out my own leaving, never mind visitors...So unless it involves NASA-levels of complexity, it's not a deal-killer. ...I have heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for "weekending". Why? It's true that they do use a bit of flush water, but I dunno where anyone got that idea...'cuz it's just the opposite--they have no moving parts...the pump is a diaphragm bilge pump, and requires no more maintenance than any other diaphragm bilge pump--occasional lubrication and a new diaphragm every 5-10 years....compared to the average piston/cylinder pump toilet, they're virtually maintenance-free. Which is WHY they're so popular with blue water cruisers. I like, I like... Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with no complaint, or so I hear. The Lavac can use a lot of flush water...but that doesn't matter to blue water cruisers because they don't have to worry much about filling up holding tanks...they flush directly overboard at sea and in many foreign coastal waters too. Fair enough. I guess they use the verboten "Y" connection in conjunction with a vented loop...I think if I installed that in the Great Lakes I'd have to convincingly disable it as our Coast Guard frowns on the mere presence of a method to fire waste out the side... If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. If it weren't for the relatively small holding tank on a very big "no discharge" body of water...and if there's never (ok, rarely) anyone on your boat but you and other well-seasoned sailors, I'd say go with the Lavac. But if you're the typical weekender who only takes occasional long cruises of a week or more, and frequently have guests aboard, I don't think it's the right toilet for your boat. OK, thanks. Any sense of how much the Lavac needs per flush? I draw lake water into the head from the same thru-hull as the sink drain...it's T'd off just below the waterline (above the standard bronze ball cock at the thruhull end) and a plastic ball valve is just below the sink drainpipe, so I alternate closing and opening the T if I want to either drain the sink or pump the head. It works well and is compact. Lots and lots of doubled SS hose clamps, though. The only heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C... That depends on which model. Their low end Headmate doesn't get very high marks...their top of the line Skipper and now discontinued Imperial and Winner models are the best toilets you can buy. But they'll cost you $700-$800 at discount. If you're planning to keep this boat for the rest of your life, that's a worthwhile investment...but if you're like most people who trade up or down (or into a trawler) every 3-10 years, I think you can be just as happy with a toilet that costs about $250 at discount-- the Raritan PH II. Lever action pump instead of the typical "bicycle pump" allows it to swallow amounts of solids and TP that would choke any other toilet under $700. Exceptionally durable...keep it properly lubricated and rebuild it about every 5 years or so, and it'll last at least 20 years before any hardware needs replacing. I will follow it up then, thanks. Stay away from the electrified version, though--the PHE II...the motor does nothing but replace the pump handle, pumps it faster and with a shorter stroke than pumping manually, which wears out seals and o-rings twice as fast and causes it to choke on anything much more than 3 sheets of TP. IMO putting a motor on a PH II turns a fine manual toilet into a very poor excuse for an electric toilet. I have no time for electric toilets with only two house batteries and a 35 amp alternator G. I would electrify a windlass before a toilet. The exercise is good for the arm... Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic. They just did, about this time last year or the year before...and the PH II came out on top...again, as it has every time for a couple of decades and its predecessor PH did for a decade or two before that. You asked for my $.02 worth...that's it. Peggie Many thanks, Peggie. R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:17 -0700, yes wrote:
Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. Thanks for the first-hand info. Quite the picture you paint, so to speak. I wonder why this "technology" isn't perfected yet, but then I guess people figure that to a sailor dopey enough to sail, anything looks better than a cedar bucket or backing off the pulpit...G R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
We replaced two vacuflush toilets with lavaks. In essence we traded an
electric vacuum toilet for a manual vacuum toilet. The vacuflush was easy to plug and very unpleasant to unplug but used very little water. They were nice toilets. The lavaks have never been plugged by my children, friends children, friends, drunks, scoundrels, cat, wife, or myself. Instructions say do not sit on the toilet and press the button to flush. I think your insides would be outside if you made a seal. The lavak uses more water. They are nice toilets. We all like different stuff, thats why they make wallpaper. B wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:17 -0700, yes wrote: Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. Thanks for the first-hand info. Quite the picture you paint, so to speak. I wonder why this "technology" isn't perfected yet, but then I guess people figure that to a sailor dopey enough to sail, anything looks better than a cedar bucket or backing off the pulpit...G R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
Wow! I guess "the grass is always greener"! While I like my Lavac, I've often thought I
might try the Vacuflush on our "next boat." The one special advise I'd give to anyone setting up a Lavac (and this probably holds for all heads where there is an option) is try to locate and orient the pump so that it can be cleaned easily. The primary way to clog a Lavac is to get something stuck under the intake flapper. If the pump is setup right, this can be cleared in 5 minutes through an access port. One mine, I have to remove the pump, but even so, it only takes 20 minutes to be running again. I wonder if mine clogs on occasion because its an electric and you can't give it an "extra vigorous" pump to clear it? "Bryan B" wrote in message ... We replaced two vacuflush toilets with lavaks. In essence we traded an electric vacuum toilet for a manual vacuum toilet. The vacuflush was easy to plug and very unpleasant to unplug but used very little water. They were nice toilets. The lavaks have never been plugged by my children, friends children, friends, drunks, scoundrels, cat, wife, or myself. Instructions say do not sit on the toilet and press the button to flush. I think your insides would be outside if you made a seal. The lavak uses more water. They are nice toilets. We all like different stuff, thats why they make wallpaper. B wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:17 -0700, yes wrote: Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. Thanks for the first-hand info. Quite the picture you paint, so to speak. I wonder why this "technology" isn't perfected yet, but then I guess people figure that to a sailor dopey enough to sail, anything looks better than a cedar bucket or backing off the pulpit...G R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:24:42 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: Wow! I guess "the grass is always greener"! While I like my Lavac, I've often thought I might try the Vacuflush on our "next boat." The one special advise I'd give to anyone setting up a Lavac (and this probably holds for all heads where there is an option) is try to locate and orient the pump so that it can be cleaned easily. The primary way to clog a Lavac is to get something stuck under the intake flapper. If the pump is setup right, this can be cleared in 5 minutes through an access port. One mine, I have to remove the pump, but even so, it only takes 20 minutes to be running again. I wonder if mine clogs on occasion because its an electric and you can't give it an "extra vigorous" pump to clear it? Well, if I chose Lavac I wouldn't go electric because I think it's an unnecessary complication on a boat under 50 feet or so...particularly when my batteries would be better devoted to radar, windlass, etc. If the batteries conk, I can use a bucket, right? Not so with radar! R. "Bryan B" wrote in message ... We replaced two vacuflush toilets with lavaks. In essence we traded an electric vacuum toilet for a manual vacuum toilet. The vacuflush was easy to plug and very unpleasant to unplug but used very little water. They were nice toilets. The lavaks have never been plugged by my children, friends children, friends, drunks, scoundrels, cat, wife, or myself. Instructions say do not sit on the toilet and press the button to flush. I think your insides would be outside if you made a seal. The lavak uses more water. They are nice toilets. We all like different stuff, thats why they make wallpaper. B wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:17 -0700, yes wrote: Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. Thanks for the first-hand info. Quite the picture you paint, so to speak. I wonder why this "technology" isn't perfected yet, but then I guess people figure that to a sailor dopey enough to sail, anything looks better than a cedar bucket or backing off the pulpit...G R. |
Lavac heads vs. others
We got the manual with the boat, and put in the electric a few months after we moved on
board. I noticed the beginnings of tennis (or is it golfer's?) elbow - perhaps it was the orientation of my installation - the handle was horizontal, fairly high. The usage of the electric is tiny, maybe a few Amp-minutes per flush. Its possible to set the pumps in series if you want both, or as I've said, swap them out in 20 minutes. Since the basic pump is a Henderson (now Whale) Mark V its easy to carry a whole spare - I got one on the "clearance table" for $50. wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:24:42 -0500, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: Wow! I guess "the grass is always greener"! While I like my Lavac, I've often thought I might try the Vacuflush on our "next boat." The one special advise I'd give to anyone setting up a Lavac (and this probably holds for all heads where there is an option) is try to locate and orient the pump so that it can be cleaned easily. The primary way to clog a Lavac is to get something stuck under the intake flapper. If the pump is setup right, this can be cleared in 5 minutes through an access port. One mine, I have to remove the pump, but even so, it only takes 20 minutes to be running again. I wonder if mine clogs on occasion because its an electric and you can't give it an "extra vigorous" pump to clear it? Well, if I chose Lavac I wouldn't go electric because I think it's an unnecessary complication on a boat under 50 feet or so...particularly when my batteries would be better devoted to radar, windlass, etc. If the batteries conk, I can use a bucket, right? Not so with radar! R. "Bryan B" wrote in message ... We replaced two vacuflush toilets with lavaks. In essence we traded an electric vacuum toilet for a manual vacuum toilet. The vacuflush was easy to plug and very unpleasant to unplug but used very little water. They were nice toilets. The lavaks have never been plugged by my children, friends children, friends, drunks, scoundrels, cat, wife, or myself. Instructions say do not sit on the toilet and press the button to flush. I think your insides would be outside if you made a seal. The lavak uses more water. They are nice toilets. We all like different stuff, thats why they make wallpaper. B wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:49:17 -0700, yes wrote: Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments. Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with Groco K's. More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4 of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in your arm and face. It's sewage water. Thanks for the first-hand info. Quite the picture you paint, so to speak. I wonder why this "technology" isn't perfected yet, but then I guess people figure that to a sailor dopey enough to sail, anything looks better than a cedar bucket or backing off the pulpit...G R. |
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