"NE Sailboat" wrote in
newsmhDh.6441$lo1.808@trndny05:

Just the other night a cop was shown pulling a young lady out of her
car and slamming her on the ground, pulling her by her hair .. etc.



In Aaron Russo's documentary "America - Freedom to Fascism", there is a
cop car camera video of a traffic stop in which a black lady, driving
alone in a Ford Exploder cannot produce her driver's license. The cop is
yelling at her at the top of his lungs to get out of the car. She is,
obviously, terrified at his attitude. He threatens and finally does
TAZER her through the open door to force her out of her SUV. She's
jerked out by the high voltage electricity and writhing in pain,
screaming, on the filthy road surface while he continues to scream at her
to "get up, GET UP!" The second cop, who was on the other side of her
SUV threatening her from the right side, comes around and the two cops
haul her shaking, quaking body, unable to move from the Tazer, back
towards the cop car.

Every American needs to see this movie, and this video, as many times as
it takes to put a stop to it. Driving with no license or under
suspension is NO EXCUSE to be treated like a Nazi POW by ANY cops.

It makes you want to shove that damned Tazer up the cops ass and pull the
trigger, over and over..... Cops shouldn't be allowed to possess torture
weaponry like this. An old lady in her 80's was killed by a Tazer in
Rock Hill, SC, a couple of years back. She came into an old folks home
in Rock Hill to see her friend, who had been moved to another home but
this home wouldn't tell her where. She panicked and kept after them.
They call the cops. The STUPID cop shot her with the Tazer and she died
of the heart attack it caused, never finding her old friend to even say
goodbye. THAT cop should be FIRST in line....

Aaron Russo produced big Hollywood films like "The Rose" with Bette
Midler and this documentary came out of his curiosity about the Income
Tax law and 16th Amendment, which was never ratified by the required
number of states. It's an amazing film of FACT, doggedly followed up and
documented, not some nutcase. It's an amazing film all Americans should
see about our new Nazi state.

PS - Income Tax is on Corporate Profits, not wages. There is no law
taxing wages of anyone. Try to find it. It doesn't exist.

Larry
--

Wayne.B wrote:
On 22 Feb 2007 09:22:01 -0600, Dave wrote:


It is also a fact that it is much cheaper to initiate a lawsuit than
it is to defend.

That may or may not be the case. It depends. In
this case, it is certainly possible that the org
would assign a staff lawyer to defend the rogue
employee, resulting in little cost to him personally.

It is also certain that having to get approval for
the use of legal staff would raise awareness of
the problem within the org--especially if it
happened more than once.

What is the basis for that conclusion?


Filing a suit is almost a rubber stamp process for someone who knows
what they are doing. The chance of success is immaterial in this
particular instance since its primary goal is issue recognition. I
believe it can be done by anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the
process. There are self help web sites available that are applicable
to many venues.

It is not the filing of a lawsuit that costs a lot
of money. It is the successful prosecution of it.
To file a lawsuit only involves determining an
appropriate venue (court), typing up the
complaint, and filing it with the clerk of the
court. It may also involve having the person you
are sueing personally served with a certified copy
of the complaint, but not always. In some cases
the complaint can be served by certified mail.

After that, it is showing up for docket call, the
initial hearing, staying on top of any filings by
the opponents and responding to them, etc. This
also does not take a lot of time.

The real costs start during discovery, when the
plaintiffs lawyer has to put in days of time to
set up and attend depositions, produce documents,
go over the opponents documents, etc.

More real costs occur during preparation for
trial, and the trial itself, as that will also
require days of the plaintiffs lawyer's time
assuming that he wants to be successful.

Been there, done that, and learned a lot. :/

Still, for anyone that is willing to spend a few
thousand dollars to make a point, it is quite
doable. It helps a lot if you have an attorney
friend who will do the filings and not fluff your
bill.

Don W.

"Don W" wrote in message
. ..

It is not the filing of a lawsuit that costs a lot of money. It is the
successful prosecution of it. To file a lawsuit only involves determining
an appropriate venue (court), typing up the complaint, and filing it with
the clerk of the court. It may also involve having the person you are
sueing personally served with a certified copy of the complaint, but not
always. In some cases the complaint can be served by certified mail.

After that, it is showing up for docket call, the initial hearing, staying
on top of any filings by the opponents and responding to them, etc. This
also does not take a lot of time.

The real costs start during discovery, when the plaintiffs lawyer has to
put in days of time to set up and attend depositions, produce documents,
go over the opponents documents, etc.

More real costs occur during preparation for trial, and the trial itself,
as that will also require days of the plaintiffs lawyer's time assuming
that he wants to be successful.

Been there, done that, and learned a lot. :/

Still, for anyone that is willing to spend a few thousand dollars to make
a point, it is quite doable. It helps a lot if you have an attorney
friend who will do the filings and not fluff your bill.

Don W.


There are also various "Legal Aide Societies" around which do a lot of
pro-bono work, using para-legals to assist in filing cases where the
plaintiff cannot afford big guns (or, for that matter, pop guns).

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:41:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
newsmhDh.6441$lo1.808@trndny05:

Just the other night a cop was shown pulling a young lady out of her
car and slamming her on the ground, pulling her by her hair .. etc.



In Aaron Russo's documentary "America - Freedom to Fascism", there is a
cop car camera video of a traffic stop in which a black lady, driving
alone in a Ford Exploder cannot produce her driver's license. The cop is
yelling at her at the top of his lungs to get out of the car. She is,
obviously, terrified at his attitude. He threatens and finally does
TAZER her through the open door to force her out of her SUV. She's
jerked out by the high voltage electricity and writhing in pain,
screaming, on the filthy road surface while he continues to scream at her
to "get up, GET UP!" The second cop, who was on the other side of her
SUV threatening her from the right side, comes around and the two cops
haul her shaking, quaking body, unable to move from the Tazer, back
towards the cop car.

Every American needs to see this movie, and this video, as many times as
it takes to put a stop to it. Driving with no license or under
suspension is NO EXCUSE to be treated like a Nazi POW by ANY cops.

It makes you want to shove that damned Tazer up the cops ass and pull the
trigger, over and over..... Cops shouldn't be allowed to possess torture
weaponry like this. An old lady in her 80's was killed by a Tazer in
Rock Hill, SC, a couple of years back. She came into an old folks home
SNIP

First to clear the air, I'm a cop.

Second I agree with what's been written about the Venice, FL water
(wanna' be) cop. It's the few like that that give us a bad name. You
know, like "all teenagers are (insert whatever bad thing you want)".

Third. While I have no info about the young lady pulled out nor the
80's lady, I do know about the Taser case above. It was 100% justified
and proper. I'm sure Mr. Russo had his own agenda and selected the
parts of the footage to further that agenda.

Two cases. Remember the news footage with the very overweight guy? It
showed a bunch of cops yelling and using some very odd baton strikes.
No one seemed to notice there was a wall so one could only see the
cops standing and pounding, but not the subject, who was lying down.
Well, the unit (cop car) video showed the whole thing. The cops were
striking the concrete with the batons to make noise. Not a one struck
the subject. The reason, BTW, for yelling and generally making noise
is that in stressful stiuations ones senses tend to dull, including
hearing. That's also why nurse and doctors speak very close and loud
to patients. Otherwise they simply will not hear.

The second case was the news video of cops escorting a hancuffed teen.
There was one on each side and one right behind the teen. The video
showed the cop in back suddenly slaming the teen against a car hood
and "beating on him". Some civil rights big guns came to town. They
were shown the videos not shown on the news, apologized and left. What
happened was the teen, who was handcuffed with his hands behind as
SOP, reached back and grabbed the cop by the NUTS! No sound on the
news video, but he was yelling to "Let go!" as he was
closed-fist-edge-of-hand striking him on the brachial plexus clavicle
notch (On top of shoulder near neck). This is a "pressure point" that
will temorarily paralyze the arm on that side, with no lasting
effects. The teen let go and that was the end of it.

As far as Tasers being "torture weaponry", that's a bunch of bull. We
have to get Tasered as part of the certification to use one. Yes
Virginia, we have to go through a course and get Tasered to be able to
carry/use one - they don't just hand us one and say go shoot somebody.

The Taser is high voltage at very low current. About the same voltage
and even lower current than those old joke "books" that when you
opened shocked you. The way it does it's job is that it's pulsed at a
proper sequence to block out and override the electrical impluses from
the brain that goes through the nerves and controls our muscles. It
stays on for 5 seconds, then turns off. It can be turned on again if
necesary. The 5 seconds is enough time to handcuff the subject. It is
sometimes painful and sometimes not, but it will usually make you fall
down (you can't control your muscles to balance) and it will make your
arms and legs flop around most of the time (sending pulses though the
nerves) and it usually makes you make um-um-um noises and sometimes
even scream. We had the whole range of reactions from officers in our
class, including one guy who asked, "When are you going to turn the
damn thing on?" when hit. Oh yeah. The Taser keeps a record of when,
how long and how many times it was on.

There have been accusations of Tasers killing people, usually due to
heart attack. The news types really jump on this. There has never been
one proven case. The news types suddenly don't seem to be interested
anymore.

The Taser is one of the best, most humane, intermediate (non-deadly)
weapons ever made (other intermediate weapons are the baton
(nightstick) and chemical spray. Either of which are a lot more
painful. Tasers and the others can only be used if the threat to the
officer is injury or to prevent the subject from injuring him/herself.

Oh yeah. In the case of that "obviously terrified" black lady, she
threated to punch the officer and did take a swing at him. I've taken
down 6'2" guys who became suddenly "obviously terrifed" after they ate
some concrete and were handcuffed. It always amazes me when someone
who has been cussin' me out, threatening to kill me and then doing his
best to do so, suddenly whines that I hurt him, he didn't do nothin',
how come I threw him down on the ground, the handcuffs are hurting
him, etc.

Yes there are cops who should be living in jail instead of bringing
people there. They are rare and they will be found out and dealt with.
All departments have an IA, Internal Affairs, division and those guys
are very vigilant. If you're wronged, report it. It may seem nothing
is being done, but it is. In some cases there's not enough solid
evidence but you can bet that officer will be watched and evidence
will mount up over time if he's dirty.

Rick

PS: If someone tries to "stick a Taser" up my ass, I'll switch to my
Sig.

Rick Morel wrote:

SNIP

First to clear the air, I'm a cop.

Second I agree with what's been written about the Venice, FL water
(wanna' be) cop. It's the few like that that give us a bad name. You
know, like "all teenagers are (insert whatever bad thing you want)".

Yep, its the small percentage bad cops that screw
it up for the vast majority of professional LEO's
who are trying to do a good job. That's why the
departments should go after them and make examples
out of them.

snip a bunch of stuff

As far as Tasers being "torture weaponry", that's a bunch of bull. We
have to get Tasered as part of the certification to use one. Yes
Virginia, we have to go through a course and get Tasered to be able to
carry/use one - they don't just hand us one and say go shoot somebody.

In Austin, the police recruits have to be tasered,
and shot in the face with MACE. Not fun, but they
all go through it before they get a badge.

snip

Yes there are cops who should be living in jail instead of bringing
people there. They are rare and they will be found out and dealt with.
All departments have an IA, Internal Affairs, division and those guys
are very vigilant. If you're wronged, report it. It may seem nothing
is being done, but it is. In some cases there's not enough solid
evidence but you can bet that officer will be watched and evidence
will mount up over time if he's dirty.

Thanks for presenting the other side of the story.


Rick

It does seem to me that our society is in an
unfortunate trend of becoming more polarized and
more militant. Our "war on drugs" which started
about 26 years ago is responsible for a lot of it,
but there are other factors at work as well.

Don W.

Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...


On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:31:02 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said:


Doesn't seem like much of a windmill to me.

That's what the knight of the sad countenance thought too.


Been reading Cervantes lately, have you?

By the way, you're right about the lawyer's bill. Only the wealthy or
obsessed can afford to press a suit on principle, unless the principle is
broad enough to bring in other parties who will fund the litigation.

Litigation is certainly not for the homeless, or
those living paycheck to paycheck, but it also is
not as expensive as most people believe--even if
you use an attorney (which I recommend).

There is a wide range of fees charged by different
attorneys out there, and a lot of attorneys in the
yellow pages.

Also, since you are litigating to make a point,
and not likely to recover much money from a state
employee even if you won a judgement, you can
offer an early settlement based on an agreed order
that the LEO in question cease his harassing behavior.

All in all, I could see this whole exercise not
costing more than $6K under the right
circumstances, and resulting in a quite favorable
outcome. Some people spend more than that to fill
up their boat. When and if this guy runs into the
wrong person he'll find out about that.

Of course, it could also cost a lot more than $6K,
and not result in anything favorable. That's the
fun part about courtroom roulette.

Don W.

On 22 Feb 2007 13:19:01 -0600, Dave wrote:

Answering a complaint like that is even easier. "Defendant admits he is a
resident of ___ and denies each and every other allegation of the
complaint."

Now what are you going to do?

Call my son the lawyer of course.

Now what are you going to do?

:-)

Rick Morel wrote in
:

The Taser is high voltage at very low current. About the same voltage
and even lower current than those old joke "books" that when you
opened shocked you. The way it does it's job is that it's pulsed at a
proper sequence to block out and override the electrical impluses from
the brain that goes through the nerves and controls our muscles. It
stays on for 5 seconds, then turns off. It can be turned on again if
necesary. The 5 seconds is enough time to handcuff the subject. It is
sometimes painful and sometimes not, but it will usually make you fall
down (you can't control your muscles to balance) and it will make your
arms and legs flop around most of the time (sending pulses though the
nerves) and it usually makes you make um-um-um noises and sometimes
even scream. We had the whole range of reactions from officers in our
class, including one guy who asked, "When are you going to turn the
damn thing on?" when hit. Oh yeah. The Taser keeps a record of when,
how long and how many times it was on.


The Taser works on the same technology as the defibrillator machine,
pulsed current through muscle tissue. Its output is measured on watt-
seconds, as is the defib.

My Tesla coil is high voltage at low current, somewhere around 800KV on a
dry day at 1-2 microamps. It causes no muscle spasms, only slight RF
burns if the arc touches your skin. Feels like a pin prick from the
burning, not the current. In order to cause muscle spasms in humans, you
need 20-40 milliamps, a good shock from a defective 115VAC appliance
comes to mind. To cause muscle lockups, like the Taser produces, you
need around 60-80 ma. Death occurs at from 100-200ma, depending on the
victim's physical condition no cop is licensed to diagnose.

Does your cop training REALLY tell you to Tase us at traffic stops if our
"Papers Please" response to the storm troopers is insufficient, our taxes
not properly paid? The lady on the cop video had not attacked the
officers in any manner. She was sitting in her driver's seat, terrified,
and refusing to exit her vehicle for fear of being beaten up, like CNN
shows on TV quite often. Being alone and indefensible against a male
attack by a cop so mad he's screaming at her, one can only imagine her
state of fear at this screaming madman.

I think NOT....This isn't Nazi-occupied France.

....Yet.

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Hey Dave ,,, the millions of dollars that was paid out after a lawsuit
should be enough to tell you that there are bad cops. There is injustice in
America..

But who really cares.

I'm more interested in where the junky Anna Nicole will be burried.

Circuit Judge Larry Seidlin, my new hero..

He singlehandedly has shown what a total joke the profession of a lawyer is.

I'd rather dig **** out of a sewer than call myself a lawyer.

Thank you Judge Larry!


================================================== ===
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:21:26 -0600, Rick Morel
said:

I'm sure Mr. Russo had his own agenda and selected the
parts of the footage to further that agenda.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, there seem to be a
number of folks like Larry who think Hollywood's version of the world is
reality.

Wayne ,, should have called Judge Larry Seidlin ... he the man.

If this guy can become a judge ,, what does it say for the guy "who didn't
get the job"?


Holy **** ,,,, lawyers are the biggest morons on the planet. Their whole
profession is a Judge Larry Joke!


================================================== ========================
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On 22 Feb 2007 13:19:01 -0600, Dave wrote:

Answering a complaint like that is even easier. "Defendant admits he is a
resident of ___ and denies each and every other allegation of the
complaint."

Now what are you going to do?

Call my son the lawyer of course.

Now what are you going to do?

:-)