wrote in message
...
PhantMan wrote:
.... and/or
possibly "setting" the anchor in the wrong direction?

"KLC Lewis" wrote:
until it reached the preset scope,
eventually digging in and swinging the boat around.

Oh! I see (said the blind man).
Soooo... he would do his approach from UPwind?
(no wonder it would scare the beejebees outta everybody)

Rick


Who could tell? His theory was that regardless of where the wind was coming
from, the inertia of the boat would set the anchor and everything would sort
itself out when the boat came to a stop. I anchored out with him a few
times, same technique each and every time. He had something of a
self-destructive streak, and died under questionable circumstances.

"KLC Lewis" wrote:
something of a
self-destructive streak, and died under questionable circumstances.

oh.... sorry to hear about your friend.
But I think I have a better understanding (picture) now.

Rick

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:6jEBh.455$aM.343@trndny03...
GO TO BOTTOM .. NO TOP POSTING FOR ME.
==========================================
================================================== =================
This is from my Power Squadron Course .. taking it again. Always good
to get a refresher.

The vertical distance to the bottom includes: 1. height of the bow of
boat to water surface. 2. depth of water. 3. anticipated difference in
water depth due to the rise and fall of the tide.

Approach the place you intend to anchor against the wind or current;
whichever is stronger.

Lower [ never throw ] anchor, let it hit/set on bottom. Allow the boat
to drift with the wind or current. Use more rode than you need for the
planned scope. This will increase the horizontal pull ..

When satisfied the anchor is set, take in extra rode. tie to bow cleat
.. use a Cleat Hitch.

Take a bearing to object of shore. To check for dragging.

no engine .. not for sailing vessel.


My friend in Los Angeles harbor who had the ferro tank sailboat had the
most unique method of setting anchor I've ever seen. While I wouldn't
repeat it, it seemed to work for him. But then, he had a rock hull (and
though I still think fondly of him, possibly a rock head as well). He
would approach his chosen anchorage at about 5 knots, cutting the anchor
loose when he judged (if that is the right word) that he was approaching
the point he wanted his anchor to set. A 45 pound CQR tailing heavy chain
would then plunge to the bottom, chain paying out behind until it reached
the preset scope, eventually digging in and swinging the boat around. He
always did this under engine power, scaring the bejeezus out of every
other boat in the anchorage and any virgin crew aboard. He was not open to
other methods of anchoring, having had such success with his "power drop"
method forever.

Downright scary.



It's not that unusual.... done under sail, it's a racing technique.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

wrote in message
...
PhantMan wrote:
.... and/or
possibly "setting" the anchor in the wrong direction?

"KLC Lewis" wrote:
until it reached the preset scope,
eventually digging in and swinging the boat around.

Oh! I see (said the blind man).
Soooo... he would do his approach from UPwind?
(no wonder it would scare the beejebees outta everybody)

Rick


Who could tell? His theory was that regardless of where the wind was
coming from, the inertia of the boat would set the anchor and everything
would sort itself out when the boat came to a stop. I anchored out with
him a few times, same technique each and every time. He had something of a
self-destructive streak, and died under questionable circumstances.


Probably at the hands of people he anchored near... g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:07:01 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote


Hopefully you back down on it with the engine at some point. That is
the acid test for me and I highly recommend it. Take a shore sight on
something to verify that you are not moving even an inch, then go to
sleep.


Nope. Interesting how people's environment effects their perspective. What
is it you have Wayne, 6-71's? People have been anchoring under sail for a
lot longer than there have been engines. I'm not going to start the engine,
warm it up barely, and the run it up to near full power just to set an
anchor. 15 hp in reverse isn't going to put a lot more strain on it than my
heaving.

Well Roger, you are entitled to your opinion of course, but I beg to
differ. Yes, I do have 6-71s driving big 30 inch props, and yes, they
can generate a *lot* of thrust even at idle speed. I estimate they
put out about 20 hp each at idle, but I usually only back down on one
engine unless really concerned for some reason. 20 hp is capable of
generating 300 to 600 pounds of reverse thrust thanks to the big
props, enough to stretch a 3/8 chain bar taught or nearly so.

Now for a little story, a very recent one in fact. We went cruising
this weekend up Pine Island Sound in SWFL, to a nice little cove
called Pellican Bay on the north end of Cayo costa Island. It is a
well protected harbor and we had it almost to ourselves because of the
chilly weather. On our way in however we noticed a very unusual
trawler that had clearly been modeled after a George Buehler "Diesel
Duck" design.

http://www.dieselducks.com/

We motored over in the dinghy on Saturday afternoon to get a better
look, ended up meeting the owner, and were invited aboard for a tour
of the boat. He had hand built it over 4 years and something like
$100K in cost even though doing virtually all of the work himself. It
was beautifully done to professional quality in almost every respect,
and he and his family were out for their first cruise since launching.

To make a long story short, we got hit with a 35 to 40 kt squall about
2:00AM on Sunday morning, and awoke to see his boat heeled over on a
sand bar about 1/2 a mile away from us. Sure enough his anchor had
broken loose during the squall, and they had dragged aground at nearly
high tide, on their very first night out. We are not entirely sure of
all the subsequent details but believe he was required to sign a
salvage contract with SeaTow to get pulled off. I'm sure it was an
expensive lesson in how not to anchor, and it would not be a good
thing to have on your insurance record.

We of course had done our usual due diligence anchoring on 5:1 scope
with 3/8ths chain, and a heavy anchor well dug in under power. As far
as I could tell from the GPS plot, we never dragged an inch even
though the anchor load probably exceeded 2,000 lbs during the squall.
This morning when we pulled up, the windlass would not even budge the
anchor off the bottom. I ended up locking off the chain and pulled it
out with the 6-71s. The anchor was so well set it must have had at
least 200 pounds of mud and clay on it.

Moral of the story? You really can't be too careful. The force of
the wind at 40 kts is 16 times greater than at 10 kts, and 40 kts is
just a routine squall in my experience. I've seen them as high as 60+
on an otherwise nice day.

PS: Thank you Glenn Ashmore. That 120 lb Spade is some awesome
anchor, and it is darned cheap insurance, especially these days when
your first claim is likely to be your last.

"Wayne.B" wrote

20 hp is capable of generating 300 to 600 pounds of reverse thrust thanks
to the big
props, enough to stretch a 3/8 chain bar taught or nearly so.

Yes, but 20 hp doesn't do much with a skinny little two blade sailboat
wheel. When backing down against the anchor the propwalk puts most of the
horsepower into just swinging the stern around sidesways with very little
strain on the anchor rode. I probably get more dig in just by janking on
it.

Sailboats are different.

--
Roger Long

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:59:41 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sailboats are different.

Been there, done that.

After several lessons learned the hard way, I began backing down with
my Atomic 4 and puny little Martec folding prop. Believe me, it can
make a difference. If the anchor is not firmly set at that point, you
have *no* chance of holding in a squall.

"Wayne.B" wrote

After several lessons learned the hard way, I began backing down with
my Atomic 4 and puny little Martec folding prop. Believe me, it can
make a difference. If the anchor is not firmly set at that point, you
have *no* chance of holding in a squall.


The heave method, which admittedly is only applicable to smaller gear (one
of the things I like about cruising in a 32 instead of 45 footer) gets a
pretty good set. First heave I often feel the tips skipping over rocks or
tearing through weed, next I can feel them digging a small furrow, then they
grab but feel spongy, then the anchor takes solidly. After three heaves
that feel like I'm pulling on a mooring anchor, I'm pretty sure it's in
there.

Your anchor can hook a tip on a rock and hold until it bends or breaks the
rode but yet be ready to slip off and let you go at the first swing even
though it feels solid. The nice thing about the hand set method is tactile
understanding of what is going on at the other end of the line and chain.
(Remember that, up here in the Northeast, you can't see as deep as your
keel.) In a tough spot with threatening weather, I might do both hand set
and power. A "set" anchor is oriented so that it digs deeper with
increasing strain. The important thing is to make sure it is in that
configuration and not just hooked in weed or on a rock.

My point isn't actually that one method is better than the other but that
utilizing all the information and understanding all the factors will keep
you safer than just putting the engine if reverse everytime you anchor.

I'm sure you know all this and I'm not arguing or preaching to you but just
keeping a discussion going that may be useful to the OP and any others who
are experiencing a little anchor anxiety.

I've been anchoring since 1969 although with a 15 year gap. I have never
dragged in the sense of waking up hitting another boat or the bottom. I
have woken up in a different place a couple times though due to strong
winds. In both of those cases, the anchors were clearly pulling a furrow
through the bottom because the felt like I had to pull them up through about
five feet of mud and could barely break them out with the rode led to a
winch. Those anchors were firmly set but the forces were simply overcoming
the strength of the bottom material. Backing under power wouldn't have made
any difference on those nights. The anchor doesn't know whether it is wind
or engine that is pulling on it.

In rough conditions, you need to be up and checking when conditions change.
In a tight spot and strong winds, the engine should be warmed up. In really
bad conditions, you may want to take some of the strain off the gear by
going slow ahead.

--
Roger Long

In article ,
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote:

My anchoring technique when sailing solo has always been pretty laughable.
At least for observers anyway. For some reason, it never occured to me that
i could anchor from any place on the boat other than the bow. anchoring in
isolated places usually went ok; a quick sprint to the bow with the motor
still running in neutral, drip anchor and drift back until i had enough
scope, then tie off.

Anchoring in crowded areas, particularly if it was a bit choppy or there was
a strong wind could really be an experience though.... the usual scenario
sees me dashing back and forth as i drift too far too fast to get the anchor
placed exactly where i want it, tripping over loose lines all the while.

recently i read a post where someone described how he kept his anchor in the
cockpit, with the chain stored in a bucket. he would then deploy the anchor
from the cockpit, see that it was set well, then walk the rode up to the bow
and tie off there. While it could really only work with small boats and
small anchors too, this idea seemed simple and brilliant to me. Am i the
only idiot who never thought of it?


After reading the 30 messages I see in the thread, I believe the best
answer is "slow down", possibly adding an "aim further upwind" as a
usual action.

I tried the aft launch and while it worked, it was more trouble than it
was worth.

In that sort of situation, I come in with the engine ticking over (as it
always is in a possibly tricky situation), choose my spot, furl the jib
and head up-wind. I start strolling forward while we have a knot or so
on, reaching the bow before we lose the momentum. Then I pay out line,
keeping slight tension on the rode, bring up the slack at about 3:1 and
then snub it at 7:1. After flaking the main sail and putting the cover
on, I check the rode again. Only after about 5 minutes settling down do
I back down, and then only at about 1000 RPM, as our feathering prop is
effective.

It's always so funny to see someone come into a dead-easy anchorage,
stop and futz about before heading forward -- at which point the boat's
dropped back a couple of lengths and is making pretty good speed, fast
enough that the Danforth just sails over the bottom and doesn't hook.
Then they do it again!

Even funnier are the ones that drop the anchor and rode in a pile, then
immediately back down at 2000 RPM. Anchor never gets a chance to set and
they plow a furrow the length of the anchorage.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/