On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message

Jere Lull wrote:

Parallax wrote:

Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about
having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also
partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs.
So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down?

Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a
time, but always charge both.

Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I
have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the
boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading
it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past
engine starting capability. My solution is a "booster pack" -- a
sealed, self contained battery unit with jumper cable clamps that can
be used to jump start cars. Mine weighs about 10 pounds and cost about
CDN$60, making it a way simpler and cheaper bit of insurance.

Yes I know that a "better" solution would be a separate cranking
battery and associated switching.

Ryk

Ryk wrote:

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message

Jere Lull wrote:



Parallax wrote:



Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about
having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also
partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs.
So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down?





Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a
time, but always charge both.



Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I
have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the
boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading
it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past
engine starting capability.

We have the same setup. They were group 24s, but I went to 31s a couple
of years ago. Start on both (or the good one if I drew down too much),
charge both, draw from 1. Next cycle, we draw from 2. Both batteries are
exercised about the same amount, both need replacement about the same time.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Ryk wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message

Jere Lull wrote:

Parallax wrote:

Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about
having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also
partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs.
So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down?

Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a
time, but always charge both.

Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I
have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the
boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading
it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past
engine starting capability. My solution is a "booster pack" -- a
sealed, self contained battery unit with jumper cable clamps that can
be used to jump start cars. Mine weighs about 10 pounds and cost about
CDN$60, making it a way simpler and cheaper bit of insurance.

Yes I know that a "better" solution would be a separate cranking
battery and associated switching.

Ryk

I looked carefully before installing the used 2GM and didnt see any
pawls for the hand crank to engage, maybe as a previous poster
suggested thee is one beneath a cover. I had serious trouble hand
starting the 1GM as I just cannot get sufficient hand torque in the
odd position I have to be in on my 28' S2. Its just damned awkward.
I have considered drilling a hole thru the engine compartment bulkhead
and making a crank extension so I can hand crank from the main cabin
but gave up that idea when I installed the 2GM. Is this still
feasible?


Another idea for a prop generator. Voltage should be directly to
speed.....so, who really needs a knotlog?

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:20:18 +0000, Steve wrote:

I've never started a diesel this way, but 40 years ago we started a 4
cylinder gas engine by letting the prop spin and slam it into gear.


Wow - never figured that would work!

I look for the crank attachment on the engine. It's not easy, but you CAN
hand-crank a diesel up to maybe 30hp or so. I knew a guy who used to
hand-crank his every month or so just for practice. (Then again, he used
to pull off the fuel line so he could say he was "disabled" and sail under
the First Narrows bridge...)

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

I looked carefully before installing the used 2GM and didnt see any
pawls for the hand crank to engage, maybe as a previous poster
suggested thee is one beneath a cover. I had serious trouble hand
starting the 1GM as I just cannot get sufficient hand torque in the
odd position I have to be in on my 28' S2. Its just damned awkward.
I have considered drilling a hole thru the engine compartment bulkhead
and making a crank extension so I can hand crank from the main cabin
but gave up that idea when I installed the 2GM. Is this still
feasible?

The hand crank on my 2GM (ca 1983) fits on the end of the crankshaft
pulley using a very simple arrangement of pawls. It's a somewhat
awkward arrangement that requires the removal of the bulkhead to give
room to swing the handle. The bigger problem is that, so far, I
haven't been able to start it by hand. Despite having started
similar-sized Lister diesels many times (albeit, quite a while ago)
the 2GM still defeats me -- as soon as I slip the decompressor over
the engine just stops, no matter how hard and fast I'm cranking.
Perhaps it would work better if there were a second person available
to operate the decompressor.

The answer to this seems to be the portable booster battery already
suggested.

Giles Morris

As far as I know the hand crank spot on the 2GM20F is blocked by the water pump belt - it
is on mine. If its salt water cooled (not the "F" version) it should be accessible.


"98stratus" wrote in message
...
Doug,

I think you're thinking of the 35 engine The transmission in the 1gm (and 2
and 3GM) are all purely mechanical. At least from my investigation of the
service manual, the forward gear is a mirror image of the reverse gear. the
cluch cone simply bears against the forward drive gear, just like it does in
reverse. The transmission is "spalsh lubricated, not hydraulic at all.

Still it doesn't mean you can bump start. The 2GM20F in my doc neighbours
boat (Tanzer 31)is hand startable. Parallax's should be also, you just need
to use the decompression levers. (the hand crank drive pin has a bolted on
cover plate on the newer 2GM20F's) so it looks like it's not hand
startable, just take the plate off and cut the end off Reinstall and your
engine is now hand crankable!

Pierre
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
You have to put the Yanmar in reverse to stop the prop because
reverse is mechanical. In forward the prop will still rotate because
it is fluid drive. So much for push starting a Yanmar. I was thinking
of getting one of the windup starters as a backup.

Doug

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about
having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also
partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs.
So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old
Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while
looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I
noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear
(Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727


Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression
levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the
spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly
giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out.

For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag
behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab
trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why
not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt
attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your
batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some).
This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot
imagine where.

Howdy...

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt
attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your
batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some).
This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot
imagine where.

Sailnet article, approximately May 9...

I have it saved - about a 279 HTML file, if you want it and can't find it.

L8R

Skip

The Propshaft Alternator

By Denis Glennon

Honest, we did it. I think the main factor was the size and mass of the
prop. This was a little 4 cylinder gas engine. I think it was a Universal.
Brand new.

This boat had about a 16 dia. wheel on a 1 1/2" shaft..

We had been anchored in Cat Harbor, Catalina Is. for about a week and hadn't
realized that the engine room light was on all that time. This was back in
about '60 and we had no VHF or elect cabin lights so never noticed that the
battery (1) went dead. Couldn't hand crank it because it was on a vee drive
with the pulley end of the engine backed up against the mizzen step...

We hoisted anchor and sailed out into open water and once we were on a broad
reach the boat speed picked up and the prop shaft started spinning because
we had forgotten to put it in gear.. We has also forgotten to turn off the
ingnition switch from our earlier attempts to start it.

The skipper kicked the shift lever into fwd to stop the prop rotation, BAMM!
the engine kicked over and started. Wow! what a feeling of relief, since we
know the summer wind wouldn't last all the way to San Diego.

BTW. I have often bragged that I could hand crank my MD2B diesel. In fact I
did it regularly on my last boat. I now have the same model engine on my
present boat but last Fri. I had a starter problem and tired to hand crank
this one. I must be getting older (67) and weaker but I couldn't get enough
rpm up with the cold engine oil (30 weight, plus this eng. only has 100
hours on it).

I finally took the starter apart and repaired it(broken brush spring), but
I am looking into some way to release the compression lever while still
keeping both hands on the hand crank.

Or else I need to go the the gym and work on my upper body strength and
cardiovacular stuff.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On 20 Oct 2003 12:52:34 -0700, (Giles) wrote:

The hand crank on my 2GM (ca 1983) fits on the end of the crankshaft
pulley using a very simple arrangement of pawls. It's a somewhat
awkward arrangement that requires the removal of the bulkhead to give
room to swing the handle. The bigger problem is that, so far, I
haven't been able to start it by hand. Despite having started
similar-sized Lister diesels many times (albeit, quite a while ago)
the 2GM still defeats me -- as soon as I slip the decompressor over
the engine just stops, no matter how hard and fast I'm cranking.
Perhaps it would work better if there were a second person available
to operate the decompressor.

The answer to this seems to be the portable booster battery already
suggested.

Giles Morris

The trick I have been told is to remove the link between the 2
cylinder. Open both levers. Crank it as fast as you can and get it
going on one by dropping the lever. Once it's going you can drop the
other one. I haven't tried it yet.


Jeannette Bristol 32, San Francisco
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:59 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

snip

BTW. I have often bragged that I could hand crank my MD2B diesel. In fact I
did it regularly on my last boat. I now have the same model engine on my
present boat but last Fri. I had a starter problem and tired to hand crank
this one. I must be getting older (67) and weaker but I couldn't get enough
rpm up with the cold engine oil (30 weight, plus this eng. only has 100
hours on it).

I finally took the starter apart and repaired it(broken brush spring), but
I am looking into some way to release the compression lever while still
keeping both hands on the hand crank.

Or else I need to go the the gym and work on my upper body strength and
cardiovacular stuff.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


Bunge Cord trying to pull the compression lever closed while a rope
held under your foot holds the compression lever open.
Once it starts running you can slap the other lever/s closed.
Mark E. Williams