OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise. How about a cruising
coop that fixes em up just enough to be somewhat spartan cruising
boats, leases em long term to members with lease payments going into
an option to buy.

For myself, I'd really like to sail my boat over to the bahamas but
from here in N. Fl it is a long way there and I've done that crossing
to Sarasota too many times. Sure wish I could find someone reliable
to sail her to Ft Myers and he could cruise her around Pine ISland
Sound or even to the Keys. I'd pick her up there and go on. Trouble
is, who is reliable enough? Who would agree to my spartan
accomodations?

On Feb 13, 11:17 am, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 10:36:06 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:





OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise. How about a cruising
coop that fixes em up just enough to be somewhat spartan cruising
boats, leases em long term to members with lease payments going into
an option to buy.

For myself, I'd really like to sail my boat over to the bahamas but
from here in N. Fl it is a long way there and I've done that crossing
to Sarasota too many times. Sure wish I could find someone reliable
to sail her to Ft Myers and he could cruise her around Pine ISland
Sound or even to the Keys. I'd pick her up there and go on. Trouble
is, who is reliable enough? Who would agree to my spartan
accomodations?

I've heard countless stories that are prefaced with: So we sold our
house and everything we owned to buy a boat and go cruising.

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

If the percentyage of people who go cruising is tiny, then the number
who cruise for the remainder of their lives is miniscule. Keep the
house and rent it out. Hire a management company to manage it. If you
do it right, you may even have an additional income stream while
cruising. The best part is that when you are done cruising, whether in
1 week or 10 years, you aren't homeless, even though real estate
prices may have quadrupled in your absence.

CWM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Extreme words of wisdom!

"Frogwatch" wrote in news:1171391766.056791.73040
@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:

is
there a solution?

Some friends of mine, who have a "new" boat that's coming home in May from
FL, just got back from their second trip to Tortola cruising on a large
catamaran. They liked it so much they took a second trip 2 months after
the first!

Sure beats spending weekends in the bilge trying to figure out how to clean
the kitchen crap out of the bilge pumps...(c;

Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!

Charlie Morgan wrote in
:

On 13 Feb 2007 10:36:06 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise. How about a cruising
coop that fixes em up just enough to be somewhat spartan cruising
boats, leases em long term to members with lease payments going into
an option to buy.

For myself, I'd really like to sail my boat over to the bahamas but
from here in N. Fl it is a long way there and I've done that crossing
to Sarasota too many times. Sure wish I could find someone reliable
to sail her to Ft Myers and he could cruise her around Pine ISland
Sound or even to the Keys. I'd pick her up there and go on. Trouble
is, who is reliable enough? Who would agree to my spartan
accomodations?

I've heard countless stories that are prefaced with: So we sold our
house and everything we owned to buy a boat and go cruising.

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

If the percentyage of people who go cruising is tiny, then the number
who cruise for the remainder of their lives is miniscule. Keep the
house and rent it out. Hire a management company to manage it. If you
do it right, you may even have an additional income stream while
cruising. The best part is that when you are done cruising, whether in
1 week or 10 years, you aren't homeless, even though real estate
prices may have quadrupled in your absence.

CWM

I completely agree with Charlie. I'm amazed at the number of people who
sell everything and head off cruising when the most that they've ever done
is to spend weekends off cruising or tied to the dock. What's even more
amazing is when you meet people who have never sailed before and have done
this. What! Put on the brakes and think about what you're doing!

The reality of cruising is a lot different than what the pamphlets show.
If I believed that myth I'd find myself anchored along palm tree lined
beaches sipping umbrella drinks watching naked native girls frolick in the
the surf.

The reality of cruising (especially outside of the US) is that you spend a
lot of time doing maintenance, hauling groceries a long way down dusty
roads, kept awake by some weird swell that wrapped around the island during
the middle of the night, theft (many times from other cruisers),
belligerent immigration agents, having things break at the worst possible
time, spending a fortune shipping parts in and a bunch of other stuff that
you never thought about.

On the flip side you can see beautiful places from the privacy of your own
boat and you meet lots of great people. Every night I sit in the cockpit
and thank God and all of the people who made it possible for me to do what
I do.

I'm lucky in that I can maintain a house and a boat. I know that many
people can't do that, but I agree with Charlie that you're much better off
keeping your house (which hopefully is appreciating and doesn't begin to
have the maintenance costs of a boat) and renting it.

I've watched a lot of people decide that the cruising life isn't for them
and then they go back and try to start all over again. They can't sell the
boat for the amount that they purchased it for and property values have
shot up. They've sold everything or given it away and they're screwed!
Don't do it without having spent a lot of time on the boat.

I personally like "stuff." I love coming home and having a workshop full
of tools to play with. Sue loves her gardens and likes a big kitchen where
more than 1 person can fit. We like spending time with the friends that
we've built up over the years. Having a home base is a good thing for us.

Another problem is that sometimes the dream of cruising is the dream of one
of the couple. The other one gets convinced to give it a try and once they
get out there, they're not happy, especially if they don't have a home base
to return to. For us, spending 6-7 months a year on the boat works well.
We cruise during the winter and we're at home for the summer/fall.

Next week we're headed to the boat which is in Ft. Lauderdale. From there
it's down to the Turks & Caicos and then we'll work our way back through
the Bahamas. We'll end up back in the Chesapeake in mid-July and then it's
back home to the Boston area.

Anyhow, I strongly recommend that people try out the cruising life before
they take the leap. It's a lot different than you expect.

-- Geoff

Charlie Morgan wrote:


I've heard countless stories that are prefaced with: So we sold our
house and everything we owned to buy a boat and go cruising.

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

Excellent point!

If the percentyage of people who go cruising is tiny, then the number
who cruise for the remainder of their lives is miniscule. Keep the
house and rent it out. Hire a management company to manage it. If you
do it right, you may even have an additional income stream while
cruising. The best part is that when you are done cruising, whether in
1 week or 10 years, you aren't homeless, even though real estate
prices may have quadrupled in your absence.

A lot of people who get the cruising bug seem to
think they need a $200K+ boat to be comfortable,
when they only have $300K or less in net worth to
begin with. There was a story in the Wall Street
Journal recently about the average net worth of
people in various countries, and it pointed out
that a lot of people in the USA actually have
negative net worth--their debts exceed the value
of their assets. Many others have no significant
net assets outside the equity in their house, and
it is likely that their house will not produce
positive cash flow on the rental marketplace with
their current mortgage payment.

Let's face it. If you are going to buy a fairly
new large cruising boat and finance it, the
payments are just like house payments--AND it is a
depreciating asset. Most people cannot afford two
house payments.

On the other hand there are countless stories of
people like Fatty and Carol Goodlander who bought
a fixer-upper cheap, and then proceeded to fix it
up and sail it around the world. "Insurance?! We
only paid $6K for the boat!! Why would we pay
$1600 a year to insure it?" And believe me there
are plenty of fixer-uppers out there to choose
from--not all worth fixing up of course.

I don't know what the best answer is. Some people
we know bought a used 38' boat and moved aboard it
while they worked to pay it off. It essentially
was their house payment. When it was paid off,
they went cruising for several years.

In our case, we bought a boat we could pay cash
for and are putting our sweat into making it
"seaworthy" (crosses himself and mumbles). Of
course in the process we have learned tons of
things we'd have never known without the sweat part.

Don W.

In article . com,
"Frogwatch" wrote:

OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise. How about a cruising
coop that fixes em up just enough to be somewhat spartan cruising
boats, leases em long term to members with lease payments going into
an option to buy.

For myself, I'd really like to sail my boat over to the bahamas but
from here in N. Fl it is a long way there and I've done that crossing
to Sarasota too many times. Sure wish I could find someone reliable
to sail her to Ft Myers and he could cruise her around Pine ISland
Sound or even to the Keys. I'd pick her up there and go on. Trouble
is, who is reliable enough? Who would agree to my spartan
accomodations?


The friends we hang with must be a little stranger than most. Then
again, the marina is: it's at least 1/2 empty each decent weekend. We've
had two friends get boats, get them ready, sell the house and take off.
They're still gone. A third is just about to sell the house. One young
guy never had a house: Lived aboard his Hinkley as he fixed it up and
paid it off --cheaper then renting and a great way to pick up chicks--
then when he was laid off, he took the 6 months of unemployment to put
the finishing touches on and fatten the kitty before taking off with the
girl friend. He returned recently after 5 or so years out -- to
replenish the kitty. Have half a dozen friends with houses that do
part-time cruising: half a year in the Caribbean, half a year on the
Bay, based at home.

We and a few others are still in the work-a-day world, but sail a lot in
season and plan on going down for 6 or so months the next time we're
between jobs (which could be retirement the way things are going at
work), then deciding on our next step after that trial. If long distance
is for us, we'll know what we need and want a heck of a lot better than
we did 15 years ago. In the meantime, the kitty's getting pretty fat
since Xan's costs amount to an annual 2-week vacation.

I suspect a high percentage of us on the list are somewhere in that
spectrum.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article . com,
"Bob" wrote:

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

GREAT words.

But a house is not an investment. Historically, their value tracks
inflation IF they're maintained. If not, they depreciate. Then there's
having to return to pay taxes and such. It's a long dock line.

Part of my plan, though Pat disagrees, is to sell the house and invest
the proceeds in a good conservative mix. If we get merely 5%, that could
add up in only a few years. [And my track record exceeds that
considerably.]

More likely, we'll downsize to a much less expensive and more benign
climate and invest the difference, since even if we don't retire to the
boat, we'll make that move.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Charlie ,, why sell? Since I own income property ,, apartments ,, I just
move out of my house/apartment for one year ,, rent it out with a one year
lease. Get back, take the apartment back ... and there I am sitting in
front of tv. Like a never left.

Oh, one more thing ... I own and house and the boat. NO MORTGAGE.

So,, who cares about depreciation.

========================
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 13 Feb 2007 10:36:06 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise. How about a cruising
coop that fixes em up just enough to be somewhat spartan cruising
boats, leases em long term to members with lease payments going into
an option to buy.

For myself, I'd really like to sail my boat over to the bahamas but
from here in N. Fl it is a long way there and I've done that crossing
to Sarasota too many times. Sure wish I could find someone reliable
to sail her to Ft Myers and he could cruise her around Pine ISland
Sound or even to the Keys. I'd pick her up there and go on. Trouble
is, who is reliable enough? Who would agree to my spartan
accomodations?

I've heard countless stories that are prefaced with: So we sold our
house and everything we owned to buy a boat and go cruising.

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

If the percentyage of people who go cruising is tiny, then the number
who cruise for the remainder of their lives is miniscule. Keep the
house and rent it out. Hire a management company to manage it. If you
do it right, you may even have an additional income stream while
cruising. The best part is that when you are done cruising, whether in
1 week or 10 years, you aren't homeless, even though real estate
prices may have quadrupled in your absence.

CWM

Sorry Charlie ,, I only saw the part about the depreciation. I must have
missed the rental info.

One thing though. It is much easier to rent an apartment than a whole
house.

And since there is more than one apartment ;;; I "plan" to offer the
longtime rentor a deal. She can be the apartment manager. She will save on
rent, I will be free to roam, and the extra income will pay the bills and
give me some spending money to boot.

========
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:32:05 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Charlie ,, why sell? Since I own income property ,, apartments ,, I just
move out of my house/apartment for one year ,, rent it out with a one year
lease. Get back, take the apartment back ... and there I am sitting in
front of tv. Like a never left.

Oh, one more thing ... I own and house and the boat. NO MORTGAGE.

So,, who cares about depreciation.


??? Did you do more than skim over what I wrote?

CWM


========================
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message

I've heard countless stories that are prefaced with: So we sold our
house and everything we owned to buy a boat and go cruising.

That's the poorest plan I've ever heard. For those who are math
impaired, let me simplify. NEVER sell an appreciating asset to
purchase a depreciating asset.

If the percentyage of people who go cruising is tiny, then the number
who cruise for the remainder of their lives is miniscule. Keep the
house and rent it out. Hire a management company to manage it. If you
do it right, you may even have an additional income stream while
cruising. The best part is that when you are done cruising, whether in
1 week or 10 years, you aren't homeless, even though real estate
prices may have quadrupled in your absence.

CWM

On Feb 13, 10:36 am, "Frogwatch" wrote:

OK, we see that the "Dream" of cruising isnt too realistic, so, is
there a solution? A solution that allows people to go for awhile
without cutting ties to their lives? A solution that allows people to
keep theri homes ashore etc in case the boat thing doesnt work out?

It seems to me that there are a lot of old boats out there and a lot
are in reasonable condition to coastal cruise.

Yep, rent the house out and buy one of the great boats i saw listed in
Latitude 38 below. Best of all worlds. If some crazy lady can sail
around the world in a 27' boat why cant Skip? Then, as one knowledable
sailor here said, go home 1 month or 10 years later. SIt down in fromt
of your TV in your home like nothing ever happend. Sound too doalbleto
me. Hey, I think im going to do that!


WESTSAIL 32, HULL 121. Shalom. Great custom interior, exterior good.
Love boat, must sell, I got too old. Ventura, CA. Go to:
www.westsail.com Ask $39,000/obo. (818) 887-6558.

ALBERG 35. All new: Bottom, rudder, shaft, propeller, transmission,
Racor fuel filters, starter, alternator, raw water pump, standing and
running rigging, low hour Universal diesel. Sacrifice: $19,950. Chris
(415) 332-7501.

WESTSAIL 32, 1977. Well equipped and maintained. Excellent condition.
Outfitted for cruising. 28 hp Volvo 2003. Dual Racors. Stove and oven.
Refrigeration. Documentated. Tools and many extras. Located Sausalito.
$55,000. Call (415) 331-0500.

ROUGHWATER 33. Thomas Gilmer design. He designed the Southern Cross
31. This is a strong, proven circumnavigator. Fiberglass. Traditional
double-ender. Lots of teak. Sloop with removable forestay for storm
jib. Storm trysail. Furl-Ex roller furling on headstay. Fleming
windvane (outstanding). Tillerpilot (electronic) by SIMRAD. Solar
panel. Simpson-Lawrence windlass. PUR-40 watermaker. Furuno GPS.
Professional epoxy barrier coat on bottom of hull. New chainplates.
New Life-Line batteries. Reliable 20 hp Yanmar diesel. Go cruising.
$34,500. (650) 851-7795

COLUMBIA 28. Bill Crealock design. Plastic classic. North sails, 2
spinnakers, autopilot, dodger, rebuilt engine, new bottom. A good
solid sailboat for only $11,000/obo. Just call (510) 754-0455 today

CAL 30 FULL KEEL CUTTER, 1964. Rigged to singlehand offshore and
coastal. Plenty of room for family. Diesel, radar, liferaft, Monitor,
great sails. Too much to list. A beautiful boat ready to go. Located
Long Beach. $27,000. (562) 430-6969

Bob