"Olecapt" wrote in message
...
Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion because
Skip and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too painful to
raise. That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue water sailing.


Do you really think there's anything to be said that Skip isn't already
saying to himself, in no uncertain terms?

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news

Do you really think there's anything to be said that Skip isn't already
saying to himself, in no uncertain terms?


Good point! This isn't some kid with stars in his eyes... or some recently
retired baby boomer who bought his boat last month.....

Professional sailors have been known to run aground... the captain of
Bluenose II did it right in Halifax harbour.. during a clear day.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/04...grd010416.html

In article ,
"KLC Lewis" wrote:

"Olecapt" wrote in message
...
Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion because
Skip and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too painful to
raise. That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue water sailing.


Do you really think there's anything to be said that Skip isn't already
saying to himself, in no uncertain terms?

That's certainly true.

Their plan was good, what I would have counseled, but then they made
slight adjustments that individually were minor, made sense even in
hindsight, and normally wouldn't have caused problems, except that they
added up the wrong way.

Ahhh, I see his "I learned about sailing from that" has finally shown up
here. I think we can all learn from that.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Their plan was good,

Jere Lull


Hello Je
This is where we disagree. After reading Skip's latest post crash
debrief his usual amazingly detailed description screams of a sequence
of pre-departure problems. And of even greater concern to me is that
he does not seem to recognize any and blames 1) faulty weather reports
and 2) his less than capable wife. My prayer for S&L and others is to
take a long hard look at the events that preceed their departure and
know that more of the same will only bring more of the same.
Bob

"Bob" wrote in news:1171228147.825891.228200
@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

My prayer for S&L and others is to
take a long hard look at the events that preceed their departure and
know that more of the same will only bring more of the same.
Bob


My analysis long before the event was that they HAD to be in the Bahamas
on a certain day to meet the kids. They "HAD to get there". I think
that is patently wrong on any sailboat that has less than a 1000 HP
engine.

No sailboat can be forced to "get there" on a certain day...sometimes
even a certain week! It's just not going to happen....safely. There's
way too many SUV drivers who are used to making Miami in 7.5 hours behind
that helm. We get there when we get there....and not a minute before we
get there. If we don't get there on schedule, we screwed up not because
we did it wrong....but because there was a schedule in the first place.

We left on schedule, no matter whether everything was running right and
everything was fixed.

We sailed on schedule, taking a chance heading into Marathon from the
wrong direction because the stupid Florida Keys are just AWFUL in a boat.

The schedule was the problem.

The solution is easy. You sail to the Bahamas, safely, no matter how
long it takes, even weeks. Isn't that great?! AFTER you've settled into
a slip or anchorage, THEN you call the kids and say, "We've arrived in
the Bahamas, safely, and will wait any length of time it takes for you to
get here and enjoy it with us!" There was no schedule to get there, no
timetable to disaster. There was no schedule for the kids to get there,
either, even though they are flying which is less of a schedule problem.

Damn everyone in a sailboat that's always in a HURRY! I sure hate to
sail with them. So doesn't my captain.... Becalmed 90 miles S of
Charleston on 80W in flat seas and NO WIND, he asked me what I thought.
"I think I'm going to get some sleep, how about you? The wind will come
up sometime this week, probably, maybe, enough to make it worth our while
to put the sails back out. I need to be home by November." (It was July
or something like that.) Isn't that why we took $400 in gourmet food
aboard and cases of beer? We weren't transporting them from Florida to
Charleston to resell..(c; "Hmm...which pate will we serve with cocktails
at happy hour this afternoon?....should we break out the sliced Salmon?"
Decisions, decisions..... "Hand me that half gallon of single malt
Scotch, will you? My glass has a leak.....God the stars are beautiful in
flat seas 90 miles out totally becalmed, laying here on the aft cabin on
my back looking straight up.....and it's SO PEACEFUL!" If it's like this
in the morning, we'll check the water in the batteries and pull that
cable for the XM antenna we forgot for the stereo.

Larry

RELAX-----WE'LL GET THERE--------------------SOME DAY!

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in news:1171228147.825891.228200
@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

My prayer for S&L and others is to
take a long hard look at the events that preceed their departure and
know that more of the same will only bring more of the same.
Bob


My analysis long before the event was that they HAD to be in the Bahamas
on a certain day to meet the kids. They "HAD to get there". I think
that is patently wrong on any sailboat that has less than a 1000 HP
engine.

No sailboat can be forced to "get there" on a certain day...sometimes
even a certain week! It's just not going to happen....safely. There's
way too many SUV drivers who are used to making Miami in 7.5 hours behind
that helm. We get there when we get there....and not a minute before we
get there. If we don't get there on schedule, we screwed up not because
we did it wrong....but because there was a schedule in the first place.

We left on schedule, no matter whether everything was running right and
everything was fixed.

We sailed on schedule, taking a chance heading into Marathon from the
wrong direction because the stupid Florida Keys are just AWFUL in a boat.

The schedule was the problem.

The solution is easy. You sail to the Bahamas, safely, no matter how
long it takes, even weeks. Isn't that great?! AFTER you've settled into
a slip or anchorage, THEN you call the kids and say, "We've arrived in
the Bahamas, safely, and will wait any length of time it takes for you to
get here and enjoy it with us!" There was no schedule to get there, no
timetable to disaster. There was no schedule for the kids to get there,
either, even though they are flying which is less of a schedule problem.

Damn everyone in a sailboat that's always in a HURRY! I sure hate to
sail with them. So doesn't my captain.... Becalmed 90 miles S of
Charleston on 80W in flat seas and NO WIND, he asked me what I thought.
"I think I'm going to get some sleep, how about you? The wind will come
up sometime this week, probably, maybe, enough to make it worth our while
to put the sails back out. I need to be home by November." (It was July
or something like that.) Isn't that why we took $400 in gourmet food
aboard and cases of beer? We weren't transporting them from Florida to
Charleston to resell..(c; "Hmm...which pate will we serve with cocktails
at happy hour this afternoon?....should we break out the sliced Salmon?"
Decisions, decisions..... "Hand me that half gallon of single malt
Scotch, will you? My glass has a leak.....God the stars are beautiful in
flat seas 90 miles out totally becalmed, laying here on the aft cabin on
my back looking straight up.....and it's SO PEACEFUL!" If it's like this
in the morning, we'll check the water in the batteries and pull that
cable for the XM antenna we forgot for the stereo.

Larry

RELAX-----WE'LL GET THERE--------------------SOME DAY!

Words of wisdom, Larry. Sailing to meet a schedule won't necessarily lead to
disaster, but it certainly increases the likelihood of it.

On Feb 11, 4:18 pm, Larry wrote:
"Bob" wrote in news:1171228147.825891.228200
@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

My prayer for S&L and others is to
take a long hard look at the events that preceed their departure and
know that more of the same will only bring more of the same.
Bob


My analysis long before the event was that they HAD to be in the Bahamas
on a certain day to meet the kids. They "HAD to get there". I think
that is patently wrong on any sailboat that has less than a 1000 HP
engine.
The schedule was the problem.
Larry
RELAX-----WE'LL GET THERE--------------------SOME DAY!


Hi Larry, I must humbly agree. That is one of the most obvious red
flags about this terrible event. Another I noticed dovetails with the
schedule problem. Why so urgent to depart?

After a year living together with my hot 21 yo girlfriend she casually
mentions one afternoon what I thought about getting married. I said,
uhh.....oh.... ya, maybe we should start talking about that. A week
later she had the announcements mailed out.........WTF! I thought we
were just going to talk about it!?!?!?!? Next, came all the smiles,
congratulations, the way to go son comments from parents bosses,
teachers. I felt so trapped and there was no way I could call it off.
Too many people would be soo disappointed. The rest is history. Lesson
learned? When a huge group thinks you're going to do something there
is tremendous pressure to comply.

Braced for the inevitable flames, I'll venture another speculation
based on several of Skip's post dating back to his vessel search days.
This is yet another elephant sitting in the living room: the care-
taker relationship that seems to exist. And then there is the question
of maintenance medications. I am not ****ing on any cornflakes here. I
simply posit the obvious. Yet others will consider these words simply
"too rude and insulting for decent people to talk about in public."
Personally I hang my laundry on my stays for all to see.

The rest is history. Lesson learned?
==============================
Wait .. you can't do this ... what happened? Did you get married? Did it
end in divorce? Where is she now?


Gee ................

============
"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 11, 4:18 pm, Larry wrote:
"Bob" wrote in news:1171228147.825891.228200
@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

My prayer for S&L and others is to
take a long hard look at the events that preceed their departure and
know that more of the same will only bring more of the same.
Bob


My analysis long before the event was that they HAD to be in the Bahamas
on a certain day to meet the kids. They "HAD to get there". I think
that is patently wrong on any sailboat that has less than a 1000 HP
engine.
The schedule was the problem.
Larry
RELAX-----WE'LL GET THERE--------------------SOME DAY!


Hi Larry, I must humbly agree. That is one of the most obvious red
flags about this terrible event. Another I noticed dovetails with the
schedule problem. Why so urgent to depart?

After a year living together with my hot 21 yo girlfriend she casually
mentions one afternoon what I thought about getting married. I said,
uhh.....oh.... ya, maybe we should start talking about that. A week
later she had the announcements mailed out.........WTF! I thought we
were just going to talk about it!?!?!?!? Next, came all the smiles,
congratulations, the way to go son comments from parents bosses,
teachers. I felt so trapped and there was no way I could call it off.
Too many people would be soo disappointed. The rest is history. Lesson
learned? When a huge group thinks you're going to do something there
is tremendous pressure to comply.

Braced for the inevitable flames, I'll venture another speculation
based on several of Skip's post dating back to his vessel search days.
This is yet another elephant sitting in the living room: the care-
taker relationship that seems to exist. And then there is the question
of maintenance medications. I am not ****ing on any cornflakes here. I
simply posit the obvious. Yet others will consider these words simply
"too rude and insulting for decent people to talk about in public."
Personally I hang my laundry on my stays for all to see.

"Bob" wrote in news:1171246804.293314.187660
@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

hot 21 yo girlfriend

If we had one of those, none of us would ever leave the slip and there'd
CERTAINLY be no schedule.....(c;

If she makes a lot of noise and gets embarrassed about it, I might make it
out to an anchorage some place....hee hee. They always look at you so
funny as you're walking down the dock towards the parking lot after keeping
the whole end of the dock awake with that screaming and yelling....hee hee.

432 lurkers and 22 posters are reading your post with GREEN
faces.....including mine.

One of my friends got into a similar marriage situation as you. When
anyone asks him when he's getting married, he tells them, "Oh, we're
already married. She just wants to have the wedding." It fun to time the
person he says that to to see how long it takes for its implications to
register..(c;

Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!

On Feb 12, 8:57 am, Larry wrote:
"Bob" wrote in news:1171246804.293314.187660
@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

hot 21 yo girlfriend

If we had one of those, none of us would ever leave the slip and there'd
CERTAINLY be no schedule.....(c;
Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!

Hi All:

Sorry to get your interest up. Yes, she was 21 and way hot. A lanky 6'
00", big brown eyes..........................

But that was 24 years ago. We were married 11 years til my party girl
kept on partying with a capital "P." We had one child and I ended up
raising our daughter. But all is well. Daughter got a full ride
scholarship playing volleyball at a NCAA D1 school. The one thing that
my ex did well was be tall. My daugher leveld off at 6' 02." Yea !$!$!
$!$.

For years I was counting down the years til she gradated from
highschool so I could return to full time water activities. She left
in early August. I can not belive how much I miss her. A real punch in
the gut. One day when she ws 3 yo an old geezer told me to love her
every second cause she'll be gone soon. I did not believe him. Now
that I am there I know what the old geezer was talking about. Some
things are learned only by experince.
BOb