[quote=Olecapt]OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


Because everybody deserves a second chance and I think you're over stating quite a bit there.

Olecapt .. I am not in a position to help financially but if I was anywhere
near where they are I would do whatever I could to help.

Why? Because this can happen to anyone. That's why. The best sailor on
earth has run aground.

I ran aground in New Bedford Mass once. That is not easy to do, I did it.
Sure enough if another sailor didn't help me get off the mud, give me a ride
to a coffee place, help me get set up at a marina .. and he was just doing
his thing.

I've never forgotten that man. He was Portuguese. I also remind every
Portuguese person I ever meet what great people they are.

It is the little things.. that is why folks help out.


ps:: this doesn't mean I would help out a nut job such as Ken Barnes, the
screwball with the beautiful people family.

Ya gotta draw the line somewhere.

ps ps ps .. not helping out Donna Lange either. She is another nut job, and
giving her something will only encourage her to go out and kill herself.


But with Flying Pig .. what you have as far as I can see from here is a
simple case of "oh ****".

You tell me the sailor who hasn't said "oh ****" and I will introduce you to
someone who has never taken the boat out of the marina.


-------------
"Olecapt" wrote in message
...
OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed
sailing. Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


"Larry" wrote in message
...
For the first time since this whole thing happened, Iâ?Tm really angry.
Not because of what happened, but because I just finished composing a
letter to the Log, which immediately disappeared into the ether. So,
ARGHHHH!! I say to you. :/

I wanted to say a few more things before we (hopefully) get wrapped up
tomorrow in trying to get back to living on our wonderful home, Flying
Pig.

We are so grateful for all your love and support, well wishes,
encouragement, and beautiful, warm emails. You have no idea how
sustaining they have been to us both.

There have been many, many offers of help, ranging from car loans, to
vacant boats to live on temporarily, to cash donations. Iâ?Tm not able
to answer all those mails individually as yet, but I wanted to make
these blanket comments to those of you who have made offers.

There are some Angels out there, disguised as sailors, who have taken
steps to set up a means to make donations. (Email not posted here), aka
William V Hoyle Jr. has set up a Flying Pig Trust account, into which
some people have wished to contribute by snail mail. His address is:

10401 Warwick Blvd
Newport News, VA 23601
(Office phone not posted, either)

(another email deleted here) has also set up a PayPal account in which to
make
donations.

Having said that, I must also tell you that among the cruising
newsgroups, there has been some dialogue about whether or not we need
any financial help, and that perhaps we should have been consulted
first before Angels stepped in. These are my thoughts on this:

I am comfortable sharing with you that our boat was insured for $140K,
subject to the underlying mortgage of $64K. The salvage of Flying Pig
from the reef to Marathon, some 25 miles, which involved a 70â?T, 1000HP
landing craft, two SeaTow boats, a BoatUS boat, a ferry boat, 4
divers, 2 helpers and the salvage Captain, cost $30K of which $7K is
covered by insurance. Obviously there will be a shortfall. We
anticipate that all other repairs will be covered by insurance. Any
costs for living expenses incurred since the wreck, has been absorbed
by the Red Cross, to whom weâ?Tre very grateful, with the exception of
the car rental for a week. We had just gifted our van to a needy guy
in the old boat yard we left, the day before we departed. In truth,
he needed it more than we.

I will also tell you that while we donâ?Tt have the shortfall at hand,
we would be mortified and very uncomfortable if anyone out there were
to make donations based on anything other than desire and ability.
For those who have the ability and are not driven by desire, thatâ?Ts
entirely OK by us. We donâ?Tt expect anything, and we wouldnâ?Tt have
felt either disappointed or abandoned if these Angels-posing-as-
sailors had never brought this subject up. So, for those of you who
want to help us financially, we thank you with all our hearts. For
those of you who canâ?Tt or donâ?Tt, we thank you too for following your
comfort level, as we would have done, Iâ?Tm sure, were the shoe to be on
the other foot.

We are Pay Forward people, I think, and over and over, it has paid us
back. We carry spares for others that we know we would never use for
ourselves; in kind, we have received spares we needed from others we
didnâ?Tt have. This is part of the cruising mentality. And itâ?Ts
good.
However, we donâ?Tt expect anything; in return, it seems, we have
everything.

So, thatâ?Ts that. I mean it.

As to the grounding â?¦

There are some of you who might be sitting back, scratching your
heads, wondering if we were out there playing â?osilly buggarsâ??, as my
British ex-husband would say. Well, we obviously werenâ?Tt adhering to
our own rules of safety.

1. We were exhausted and sleep deprived when we left.
2. When I got seasick on my second Scopalamine patch while I was on
watch, I didnâ?Tt wake Skip, knowing he badly needed rest, to get help.
As discussed in earlier log posts, I feel this really impacts your
judgement.
3. As a result of either the patch (which Iâ?Tve heard affects vision)
or just the rough seas and exhaustion, I didnâ?Tt focus well on pretty
much anything, including the instruments.
4. While we diligently checked the weather in St Pete and Marathon
before leaving, which looked very good for a downhill run, we werenâ?Tt
adequately prepared to hit surprise bad weather.
5. We were in a hurry to leave, to reach George Town, Exumas by 3/1
when my son and girlfriend were arriving by air to join us. I didnâ?Tt
want them arriving without us being there to greet them. Big no-no.

We live and learn ï?O

We were taken out for a wonderful dinner tonight by Jay and Diane,
more amazing people weâ?Tve never met, who happened to be in a slip in
Key West and contacted us. We had a marvelous evening together.
Weâ?Tre so grateful for them, and for all of you who have lent your
shoulders as props.

Stay tuned â?" this will be the last mail from me before weâ?Tre safely
back on the boat in the Keys Boat Yard, Marathon, which we anticipate
to be tomorrow. Yay for that â?" Iâ?Tm ready to kick butt again ï?S

With love, Lydia (and Skip)

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:41:04 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

You tell me the sailor who hasn't said "oh ****" and I will introduce you to
someone who has never taken the boat out of the marina.

Can't remember exactly what I said when we were dismasted off the New
Jersey coast in 1987 but I'm pretty sure the "s" word was in there
someplace.

Wayne.B wrote:
You tell me the sailor who hasn't said "oh ****" and I will introduce you to
someone who has never taken the boat out of the marina.

Can't remember exactly what I said when we were dismasted off the New
Jersey coast in 1987 but I'm pretty sure the "s" word was in there
someplace.

As I recall, when we lost our backstay about 02:30 on our first night
out on the leg from Tonga to Hawaii last September, I used the "f" word
pretty vigorously.

I sympathize very strongly with Skip and Lydia. Especially so early in
their adventure that they haven't yet discovered their abilities and
limits, I can understand how it could happen.

Skip & I corresponded from before they even purchased the "Pig" (in
fact, I understand they used our boat evaluation form to assist them
during the search). I'm really not in a position to help them
financially unless they get desperate, and being on the left coast,
there's not a lot I can offer them in terms of physical aid, but Kathryn
and I are sure sending as many good thoughts their way as we can.

"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
You tell me the sailor who hasn't said "oh ****" and I will introduce
you to someone who has never taken the boat out of the marina.

Can't remember exactly what I said when we were dismasted off the New
Jersey coast in 1987 but I'm pretty sure the "s" word was in there
someplace.

As I recall, when we lost our backstay about 02:30 on our first night out
on the leg from Tonga to Hawaii last September, I used the "f" word pretty
vigorously.

I sympathize very strongly with Skip and Lydia. Especially so early in
their adventure that they haven't yet discovered their abilities and
limits, I can understand how it could happen.

Skip & I corresponded from before they even purchased the "Pig" (in fact,
I understand they used our boat evaluation form to assist them during the
search). I'm really not in a position to help them financially unless
they get desperate, and being on the left coast, there's not a lot I can
offer them in terms of physical aid, but Kathryn and I are sure sending as
many good thoughts their way as we can.

I can't help but be reminded of Jamie Bryson and his family's trip upon
first buying their Rawson 30. Between Cabo and Alaska they ran aground (with
damage to repair), were rammed by a fishing boat (with more damage to
repair) and were nearly sunk more than once. Either of those collisions
could have resulted in the totalling of their boat by an insurance companay,
yet they bounced back and completed a circumnavigation. Skip and Lydia have
been preparing for this new chapter in their lives for years -- I'm not
ready to close the book on them just yet.

Wayne.B wrote in
:

I'm pretty sure the "s" word was in there
someplace.


Not only the "s" word, but the "s", too, I suspect....(c;

Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!

On Feb 8, 8:39Â*pm, Larry wrote:

Stay tuned – this will be the last mail from me before we’re safely
back on the boat in the Keys Boat Yard, Marathon, which we anticipate
to be tomorrow. Â*Yay for that – I’m ready to kick butt again ï?Š

With love, Lydia (and Skip)

I read in other post the weather that brought these two down was:

NE at 25 and seas of 7-8 feet.

Is that true?????
Bob

"Bob" wrote in news:1171091251.462212.220950
@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:

NE at 25 and seas of 7-8 feet.

Is that true?????
Bob


Yes

Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!

"Bob" wrote:

On Feb 8, 8:39*pm, Larry wrote:

Stay tuned – this will be the last mail from me before we’re safely
back on the boat in the Keys Boat Yard, Marathon, which we anticipate
to be tomorrow. *Yay for that – I’m ready to kick butt again ?

With love, Lydia (and Skip)

I read in other post the weather that brought these two down was:

NE at 25 and seas of 7-8 feet.

Is that true?????
Bob

Sea height is VERY hard to estimate accurately, at least for me and I
suspect for other people as well. More important than just the height
is the wave period (that is how close together they are). Waves of
7-8 feet out in the Atlantic someplace are almost non-events. Waves
of 7-8 feet in the Chesapeake, and I suspect also along the Florida
Gulf Coast, and certainly in the Gulf Stream resulting from a NE wind
are entirely different and a MUCH worse problem, because they are
close enough together that the boat is burying the bow in the next
wave while still on the crest of the previous wave.

That is exactly what happens in the Gulf. Although, as I'm sure you know, you are never in the Gulf Stream in that area of the Gulf.
And as you approach the Keys from the Gulf side it gets very shallow well offshore of the Keys.

I'm not sure who's local knowledge Skip was relying on but I bet if they real had made 200 deliveries to that area and known it was going to be blowing 20-30 with 6-8 foot seas with a 6 1/2 draft vessel, they would have told them to go to Key West and not try to get in Marathon in those conditions. If they had to go.

The distance to Key West from the Tampa Bay sea buoy is in fact a few miles less (as the crow flies) than if you go to Vaca Key (Marathon). And the entrance to Key West in bad weather out of the North is much better than Marathon to say the least.

Of course going to Key West adds distance to your trip to the Bahamas. But at least you are going with the Gulf Stream on your way up and over.