For the first time since this whole thing happened, I’m really angry.
Not because of what happened, but because I just finished composing a
letter to the Log, which immediately disappeared into the ether. So,
ARGHHHH!! I say to you. :/

I wanted to say a few more things before we (hopefully) get wrapped up
tomorrow in trying to get back to living on our wonderful home, Flying
Pig.

We are so grateful for all your love and support, well wishes,
encouragement, and beautiful, warm emails. You have no idea how
sustaining they have been to us both.

There have been many, many offers of help, ranging from car loans, to
vacant boats to live on temporarily, to cash donations. I’m not able
to answer all those mails individually as yet, but I wanted to make
these blanket comments to those of you who have made offers.

There are some Angels out there, disguised as sailors, who have taken
steps to set up a means to make donations. (Email not posted here), aka
William V Hoyle Jr. has set up a Flying Pig Trust account, into which
some people have wished to contribute by snail mail. His address is:

10401 Warwick Blvd
Newport News, VA 23601
(Office phone not posted, either)

(another email deleted here) has also set up a PayPal account in which to
make
donations.

Having said that, I must also tell you that among the cruising
newsgroups, there has been some dialogue about whether or not we need
any financial help, and that perhaps we should have been consulted
first before Angels stepped in. These are my thoughts on this:

I am comfortable sharing with you that our boat was insured for $140K,
subject to the underlying mortgage of $64K. The salvage of Flying Pig
from the reef to Marathon, some 25 miles, which involved a 70’, 1000HP
landing craft, two SeaTow boats, a BoatUS boat, a ferry boat, 4
divers, 2 helpers and the salvage Captain, cost $30K of which $7K is
covered by insurance. Obviously there will be a shortfall. We
anticipate that all other repairs will be covered by insurance. Any
costs for living expenses incurred since the wreck, has been absorbed
by the Red Cross, to whom we’re very grateful, with the exception of
the car rental for a week. We had just gifted our van to a needy guy
in the old boat yard we left, the day before we departed. In truth,
he needed it more than we.

I will also tell you that while we don’t have the shortfall at hand,
we would be mortified and very uncomfortable if anyone out there were
to make donations based on anything other than desire and ability.
For those who have the ability and are not driven by desire, that’s
entirely OK by us. We don’t expect anything, and we wouldn’t have
felt either disappointed or abandoned if these Angels-posing-as-
sailors had never brought this subject up. So, for those of you who
want to help us financially, we thank you with all our hearts. For
those of you who can’t or don’t, we thank you too for following your
comfort level, as we would have done, I’m sure, were the shoe to be on
the other foot.

We are Pay Forward people, I think, and over and over, it has paid us
back. We carry spares for others that we know we would never use for
ourselves; in kind, we have received spares we needed from others we
didn’t have. This is part of the cruising mentality. And it’s
good.
However, we don’t expect anything; in return, it seems, we have
everything.

So, that’s that. I mean it.

As to the grounding …

There are some of you who might be sitting back, scratching your
heads, wondering if we were out there playing “silly buggars�, as my
British ex-husband would say. Well, we obviously weren’t adhering to
our own rules of safety.

1. We were exhausted and sleep deprived when we left.
2. When I got seasick on my second Scopalamine patch while I was on
watch, I didn’t wake Skip, knowing he badly needed rest, to get help.
As discussed in earlier log posts, I feel this really impacts your
judgement.
3. As a result of either the patch (which I’ve heard affects vision)
or just the rough seas and exhaustion, I didn’t focus well on pretty
much anything, including the instruments.
4. While we diligently checked the weather in St Pete and Marathon
before leaving, which looked very good for a downhill run, we weren’t
adequately prepared to hit surprise bad weather.
5. We were in a hurry to leave, to reach George Town, Exumas by 3/1
when my son and girlfriend were arriving by air to join us. I didn’t
want them arriving without us being there to greet them. Big no-no.

We live and learn �

We were taken out for a wonderful dinner tonight by Jay and Diane,
more amazing people we’ve never met, who happened to be in a slip in
Key West and contacted us. We had a marvelous evening together.
We’re so grateful for them, and for all of you who have lent your
shoulders as props.

Stay tuned – this will be the last mail from me before we’re safely
back on the boat in the Keys Boat Yard, Marathon, which we anticipate
to be tomorrow. Yay for that – I’m ready to kick butt again �

With love, Lydia (and Skip)

OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


"Larry" wrote in message
...
For the first time since this whole thing happened, I’m really angry.
Not because of what happened, but because I just finished composing a
letter to the Log, which immediately disappeared into the ether. So,
ARGHHHH!! I say to you. :/

I wanted to say a few more things before we (hopefully) get wrapped up
tomorrow in trying to get back to living on our wonderful home, Flying
Pig.

We are so grateful for all your love and support, well wishes,
encouragement, and beautiful, warm emails. You have no idea how
sustaining they have been to us both.

There have been many, many offers of help, ranging from car loans, to
vacant boats to live on temporarily, to cash donations. I’m not able
to answer all those mails individually as yet, but I wanted to make
these blanket comments to those of you who have made offers.

There are some Angels out there, disguised as sailors, who have taken
steps to set up a means to make donations. (Email not posted here), aka
William V Hoyle Jr. has set up a Flying Pig Trust account, into which
some people have wished to contribute by snail mail. His address is:

10401 Warwick Blvd
Newport News, VA 23601
(Office phone not posted, either)

(another email deleted here) has also set up a PayPal account in which to
make
donations.

Having said that, I must also tell you that among the cruising
newsgroups, there has been some dialogue about whether or not we need
any financial help, and that perhaps we should have been consulted
first before Angels stepped in. These are my thoughts on this:

I am comfortable sharing with you that our boat was insured for $140K,
subject to the underlying mortgage of $64K. The salvage of Flying Pig
from the reef to Marathon, some 25 miles, which involved a 70’, 1000HP
landing craft, two SeaTow boats, a BoatUS boat, a ferry boat, 4
divers, 2 helpers and the salvage Captain, cost $30K of which $7K is
covered by insurance. Obviously there will be a shortfall. We
anticipate that all other repairs will be covered by insurance. Any
costs for living expenses incurred since the wreck, has been absorbed
by the Red Cross, to whom we’re very grateful, with the exception of
the car rental for a week. We had just gifted our van to a needy guy
in the old boat yard we left, the day before we departed. In truth,
he needed it more than we.

I will also tell you that while we don’t have the shortfall at hand,
we would be mortified and very uncomfortable if anyone out there were
to make donations based on anything other than desire and ability.
For those who have the ability and are not driven by desire, that’s
entirely OK by us. We don’t expect anything, and we wouldn’t have
felt either disappointed or abandoned if these Angels-posing-as-
sailors had never brought this subject up. So, for those of you who
want to help us financially, we thank you with all our hearts. For
those of you who can’t or don’t, we thank you too for following your
comfort level, as we would have done, I’m sure, were the shoe to be on
the other foot.

We are Pay Forward people, I think, and over and over, it has paid us
back. We carry spares for others that we know we would never use for
ourselves; in kind, we have received spares we needed from others we
didn’t have. This is part of the cruising mentality. And it’s
good.
However, we don’t expect anything; in return, it seems, we have
everything.

So, that’s that. I mean it.

As to the grounding …

There are some of you who might be sitting back, scratching your
heads, wondering if we were out there playing “silly buggars�, as my
British ex-husband would say. Well, we obviously weren’t adhering to
our own rules of safety.

1. We were exhausted and sleep deprived when we left.
2. When I got seasick on my second Scopalamine patch while I was on
watch, I didn’t wake Skip, knowing he badly needed rest, to get help.
As discussed in earlier log posts, I feel this really impacts your
judgement.
3. As a result of either the patch (which I’ve heard affects vision)
or just the rough seas and exhaustion, I didn’t focus well on pretty
much anything, including the instruments.
4. While we diligently checked the weather in St Pete and Marathon
before leaving, which looked very good for a downhill run, we weren’t
adequately prepared to hit surprise bad weather.
5. We were in a hurry to leave, to reach George Town, Exumas by 3/1
when my son and girlfriend were arriving by air to join us. I didn’t
want them arriving without us being there to greet them. Big no-no.

We live and learn �

We were taken out for a wonderful dinner tonight by Jay and Diane,
more amazing people we’ve never met, who happened to be in a slip in
Key West and contacted us. We had a marvelous evening together.
We’re so grateful for them, and for all of you who have lent your
shoulders as props.

Stay tuned – this will be the last mail from me before we’re safely
back on the boat in the Keys Boat Yard, Marathon, which we anticipate
to be tomorrow. Yay for that – I’m ready to kick butt again �

With love, Lydia (and Skip)

On Feb 8, 10:00 pm, "Olecapt" wrote:
OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


.....and why help them out?

1) Tuition at the School of Hard Knocks is expensive at times, but the
education is priceless.
2) Learning aaint pretty.
3) Its the right thing to do.

Bob

In article ,
"Olecapt" wrote:

OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


Evidently, you haven't been following them for very long.

As I see it, an understandable enthusiasm dulled their normal
cautiousness, compounded by the *many* dock mates wanting to say
farewell and the flurry of activity attending finally getting away
after so many years' hard work that we've been following, sometimes in
excruciating detail. They have many friends here.

I know they know the first rule of cruising: never sail to a "date", I
called them on it before they left the dock, but I can certainly
sympathize with a "just this one time".

Had they been in a similar situation after a week's settling in and
getting the watch schedules set, I'm sure they would have handled it
better.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Olecapt" wrote:

OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed
sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


Evidently, you haven't been following them for very long.

As I see it, an understandable enthusiasm dulled their normal
cautiousness, compounded by the *many* dock mates wanting to say
farewell and the flurry of activity attending finally getting away
after so many years' hard work that we've been following, sometimes in
excruciating detail. They have many friends here.

I know they know the first rule of cruising: never sail to a "date", I
called them on it before they left the dock, but I can certainly
sympathize with a "just this one time".

Had they been in a similar situation after a week's settling in and
getting the watch schedules set, I'm sure they would have handled it
better.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

You are all making excuses. If these folk are your friends I would think
counsel that they not go off shore without at least a third capable member
on board would be in order.

Skip regardless of his skills or abilities ended up with a lady made ditzy
by seasickness on the helm in dangerous conditions in dangerous waters.
How much more can one screw up?

From long experience one has to be very careful with those who have a sea
sickness proclivity. They can get totally out of it particularly if they
dehydrate.

Sure it was the start of the voyage. That is one of the standard times when
things go wrong.

And no I have never run into anything hard on a bad weather night on the
deep blue. If I ever do I think that will be it.

Sure I can get demasted. Or charged by a whale I suppose. Those however
are problems that were inflected on me. Completely different from those I
inflect on myself.

I would very strongly suggest this couple is unsuited for double handling
anything more than day runs. Other than that they should have a good third
crew.

..

"Olecapt" wrote in message
...

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Olecapt" wrote:

OK - I will go for it. This couple seems unsuited for short handed
sailing.
Helping them out simply helps them to kill themselves.

Why would you do that?


Evidently, you haven't been following them for very long.

As I see it, an understandable enthusiasm dulled their normal
cautiousness, compounded by the *many* dock mates wanting to say
farewell and the flurry of activity attending finally getting away
after so many years' hard work that we've been following, sometimes in
excruciating detail. They have many friends here.

I know they know the first rule of cruising: never sail to a "date", I
called them on it before they left the dock, but I can certainly
sympathize with a "just this one time".

Had they been in a similar situation after a week's settling in and
getting the watch schedules set, I'm sure they would have handled it
better.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

You are all making excuses. If these folk are your friends I would think
counsel that they not go off shore without at least a third capable member
on board would be in order.

Skip regardless of his skills or abilities ended up with a lady made ditzy
by seasickness on the helm in dangerous conditions in dangerous waters.
How much more can one screw up?

From long experience one has to be very careful with those who have a sea
sickness proclivity. They can get totally out of it particularly if they
dehydrate.

Sure it was the start of the voyage. That is one of the standard times
when things go wrong.

And no I have never run into anything hard on a bad weather night on the
deep blue. If I ever do I think that will be it.

Sure I can get demasted. Or charged by a whale I suppose. Those however
are problems that were inflected on me. Completely different from those I
inflect on myself.

I would very strongly suggest this couple is unsuited for double handling
anything more than day runs. Other than that they should have a good
third crew.

Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion because Skip
and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too painful to raise.
That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue water sailing.

Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion because Skip
and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too painful to raise.

Maybe just too obvious. The mans boat was on the reef. What can you
say??

That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue water sailing.- Hide quoted text -

Id say truth at times is very painful:
Kennedy.... Bay of Pigs............. origin of the term "Group Think"
Bush.........Iraq....... stay the course.

And many wont speak up for a varity of reasons. And those who do are
punnished with frowns for not being a team player or raining on
somebodies parade.

I was 17 years old when i saw my first crusing boat sanded in on a
beach. It think it was 1969 or so. Same story thats been repeated
countless times on every sho Couple in their early 60s retire
early, sell everything to spend a their life in blissful cruising.
Never sailed much, physical conditioning??? Sailing is HARD work. In
my case they left southern CA late in October and headed north. Got
tossed around about Cape Blanco, Or. Got seasick-bounced and bruised
no longer able to sail the boat and ended up on the beach at Waldport,
OR. It happens way too often.

Bob

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 22:56:25 -0800, Olecapt wrote:

snip

I guess you feel compelled to **** in these folks' corn flakes at this
time in an effort to be helpful. Just because we can say a thing, doesn't
mean we have to.

"Olecapt" wrote in message
...
Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion because
Skip and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too painful to
raise. That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue water sailing.


Do you really think there's anything to be said that Skip isn't already
saying to himself, in no uncertain terms?

"Olecapt" wrote in
:

Hmm silence. Is it the "we are not going to offer an opinion
because Skip and Lydia will see it?" Or is the subject simply too
painful to raise. That is how we avoid a lot of the truths in blue
water sailing.


As I was talking to Skip on Skype, I told him we don't take Lionheart
offshore to do anything serious without 6 sailors aboard, 2 per watch
section, 3 watch sections so you can get some REST under any conditions.
Most everyone out there trying to get away from humanity is sailing with
way too few actual sailors, not professionals but able hands strong
enough to haul in a fouled main tearing up in the wind at 2AM.

It's none of my business how others sail, but as we're talking about it,
I think an able man sailing with a wife who couldn't bring the boat
around and save his life if he simply fell overboard is really too
dangerous for all. Even if she doesn't get him back aboard, able or even
alive, what is she to do, stand and scream? She MUST be properly trained
and be able to handle the boat in fair, not just wonderful,
conditions....especially alone offshore.

You all know what I'm talking about.....It's not about Skip and Lydia.
How many of you have told your best sailing friends, "John, I don't think
you and Julie should go offshore by yourselves like you do."......do you?

Larry
--
VIRUS ALERT! VISTA has been released!
NOONE will be spared!