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I need DC and AC power source .
Hello Group,
+ I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick"
wrote: Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John You can use an inverter to power small AC loads for fairly long periods, or large loads (like a microwave or electric kettle) for short periods. If you have a 1200 watt 120 V load such as a kettle, it will draw 10 amps at 120 volts, but the inverter will draw a little over 100 amps from the batteries to produce that power. A Group 27 battery (about 25% larger than a traditional car battery) would be rated about 110 amp-hours, if I recall correctly, but that rating assumes the battery is discharged over 20 hours, which would be a draw of only 5 amps. Drawing 100 amps, you will likely only get around 50% capacity, so you could only run your kettle for about 30 minutes before the battery is completely discharged. To determine the battery capacity you need, you will have to look at the likely AC loads you will want to use, and the length of time you will use each one, to compute the total amp-hours required per day. You will also have to make some provision to recharge the batteries - this will require a high capacity battery charger, and probably an upgrade of the alternator and regulator on the engine, if you expect to be away from shore power for more than a day or two. You should also re-arrange the batteries so that one battery is dedicated to engine starting, and can't be discharged by the inverter or other "house" loads. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
I need DC and AC power source .
This is an easy calculation for you.
1) Find the battery bank capacity, in terms of volts, and ampere-hours. (To get the feel of it, recall some car batteries are 12 volt, 100 amp-hours) 2) Find the desired load. As an illustration, take a microwave as 1 kilowatt = 1000 watts. 3) Reduce 1) to compatible units: e.g. 12 X 100 - watt - hour = 1200 watt-hour 4) For 100% conversion efficiency, divide number in 3) by number in 2) 1200 watt-hour/1000 watt = 1.2 hours. 4) Then use a realistic efficiency - from 50% to 90% 1.2 hours X 50% = 0.6 hr = 36 minutes Brian Whatcott On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick" wrote: Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
The only air-conditioner I know of for a small boat like your Bayliner that
will work and not consume tons of batteries is a product by INNOVA TECH that uses ice for the cooling. It consumes 1.6-3.3 Amps 12V for 6500 BTU of cooling power. combine that with the new extreme coolers and you have enough ice for 5-7 days of Cool and dehumidify conditioned air. Jack "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
Let's do a little math.........
How much power does a house battery have? Hmm....It says 330 amp-hour at a 20 hour rate (not 500 amps all at once). Let's pretend it's 300AH for this lesson. We gotta fudge somewhere, this is math! It's a 13.8V battery but loaded up let's say 12V to keep it simpler. V x AH = watt hours (not kilowatt hours like at home). 12V x 300AH= 3600 watt hours of "house power" in the bank. (Your AH may vary, look on the battery.) If we draw 1000 watts, it should run 3.6 hours (but it won't make it quite that far because 1000 watts divided by 12V = 83.3A plus the losses in the inverter, probably 90A. 90A, for reference, is a running starter turning over a dead 6 cylinder diesel engine. How long can we crank the dead engine before we're out of juice? Is the picture coming in any clearer, yet? 2000W is 180A at 12V! Make damned sure the house battery wires are size 000 wires! 000 wires is 200A continuous, which is what a 2000W inverter is gonna pull, if it can....continuously, not just a pulse like the starter needs to get the engine moving. Wow...180A seems like a LOT of current. It is! I'd bet we could pull the A/C with that monster about 30 minutes off an inverter...give or take 20 minutes. Do you see why? There just isn't that kind of power available to start with unless you're on a diesel submarine with 6,250AH battery cells that are about 6' high, 4' wide and 3' deep. Great ballast, though. Causes a diesel sub to SINK if we let the air out of the ballast tanks! They got lots more than 6 cells and run lots higher voltage than 12V, too. It's more efficient, as Tom Edison found out from Nikola Tesla, who invented your AC power system. NOTHING is funnier than watching a boater with a new 4KW Heart inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.....(c; Larry W4CSC/MM S/V Lionheart with 700AH battery banks and a more reasonable 500W inverter..... On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick" wrote: Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
I need DC and AC power source .
If you are really seriously considering using 120V appliances on your boat
then you might want to consider a small portable generator like the Honda EU2000i. 2000 watts 60Hz and a DC Output of 8.3 amps at 12V. It only weights 47 lbs 20Lx11Wx16H. It can be fastened on the swim platform for all the 120 power your going to need. 1 gal. of gas will run it for 4 hours. Of course you need to be careful that you don't die from carbon monoxide poisoning. But you will be able to power all your 120V appliances and run any type of air-conditioner. Jack "Jack Rye" .# wrote in message news:fbegb.18929$Rd4.3877@fed1read07... The only air-conditioner I know of for a small boat like your Bayliner that will work and not consume tons of batteries is a product by INNOVA TECH that uses ice for the cooling. It consumes 1.6-3.3 Amps 12V for 6500 BTU of cooling power. combine that with the new extreme coolers and you have enough ice for 5-7 days of Cool and dehumidify conditioned air. Jack "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
Let me second the thrust of Peter's remarks with different math.
Really good deep cycle lead acid batteries nominally store around 15 watt hours per pound (multiply 20 hour rate capacity by voltage and divide by weight). However, if you discharge them all the way, they will have a very short life. It is also hard to get them fully charged, so a good estimate of actual usable capacity is around five watt hours per pound, particularly in high drain applications where the nominal 20 hour rate capacity is too high. This means that if you want to use your proposed 1.5KW inverter for one hour, you need 1.65KWH of usable battery capacity, which will weigh around 330 pounds. This assumes the inverter has 90% efficiency, which is probably close. You can beat the weight with NiCd or NiMH, but the cost is so high that I have seen NiCd batteries for house loads on only one boat, an ex-Royal New Zealand Navy survey vessel. You can also cut it somewhat by using cheap, light batteries, but their life will be much less than a heavy deep cycle set (might be as few as 25-50 cycles). It also means that you have to be able to put 3KWH back into the battery (lead acid chemistry is only around 50% efficient). Since it would be better not to charge it at the high rate you're discharging it, you'll need to run your engine, with a new, big, alternator for at least a couple of hours after each hour of inverter time. As for cost -- the alternator and smart voltage regulator required will be around US$1000. Good lead acid batteries cost around $2 per pound, so it's about $600 for the batteries. Add wiring, fuses, bracket for the alternator, new, heavy battery boxes, and the inverter, and you're well above $2,500 if you do all the work yourself. One possibility is to put in a much smaller new battery set, but a really big alternator -- say 200 amps -- and run your engine whenever you want power. This will require careful management, as the battery will not like being charged at that rate, but it will be a lot lighter. Not much cheaper, though. BTW, if you put in an alternator and battery set solely for the use of the inverter, consider going to 24V. It's much more efficient and requires much smaller wires. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Peter Bennett wrote in message rnews.com... On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick" wrote: Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John You can use an inverter to power small AC loads for fairly long periods, or large loads (like a microwave or electric kettle) for short periods. If you have a 1200 watt 120 V load such as a kettle, it will draw 10 amps at 120 volts, but the inverter will draw a little over 100 amps from the batteries to produce that power. A Group 27 battery (about 25% larger than a traditional car battery) would be rated about 110 amp-hours, if I recall correctly, but that rating assumes the battery is discharged over 20 hours, which would be a draw of only 5 amps. Drawing 100 amps, you will likely only get around 50% capacity, so you could only run your kettle for about 30 minutes before the battery is completely discharged. To determine the battery capacity you need, you will have to look at the likely AC loads you will want to use, and the length of time you will use each one, to compute the total amp-hours required per day. You will also have to make some provision to recharge the batteries - this will require a high capacity battery charger, and probably an upgrade of the alternator and regulator on the engine, if you expect to be away from shore power for more than a day or two. You should also re-arrange the batteries so that one battery is dedicated to engine starting, and can't be discharged by the inverter or other "house" loads. |
I need DC and AC power source .
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick"
wrote (with possible editing): Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John I did, but it was years ago. The other posters are quite right - you really should never use battery backup to produce heat, it just doesn't make sense. We used isolators and a second backup bank of batteries so that we'd never run down the engine starting batteries. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
I need DC and AC power source .
Jim and Peter what it really comes down to is that they bought the wrong
size boat for what they want to do. They should have bought the entry level bayliner 26'er. That way they could have a micro, air-conditioning and all the creature 120V comforts of home. By the time he's done rigging up the boat to run all the 120V appliances and air-conditioning. Sacrificing space, and trying to make it all fit. He would be better off trading in the 21' day cruiser for a 26' already set up for overnight cruising. Jack "Jim Woodward" wrote in message om... Let me second the thrust of Peter's remarks with different math. Really good deep cycle lead acid batteries nominally store around 15 watt hours per pound (multiply 20 hour rate capacity by voltage and divide by weight). However, if you discharge them all the way, they will have a very short life. It is also hard to get them fully charged, so a good estimate of actual usable capacity is around five watt hours per pound, particularly in high drain applications where the nominal 20 hour rate capacity is too high. This means that if you want to use your proposed 1.5KW inverter for one hour, you need 1.65KWH of usable battery capacity, which will weigh around 330 pounds. This assumes the inverter has 90% efficiency, which is probably close. You can beat the weight with NiCd or NiMH, but the cost is so high that I have seen NiCd batteries for house loads on only one boat, an ex-Royal New Zealand Navy survey vessel. You can also cut it somewhat by using cheap, light batteries, but their life will be much less than a heavy deep cycle set (might be as few as 25-50 cycles). It also means that you have to be able to put 3KWH back into the battery (lead acid chemistry is only around 50% efficient). Since it would be better not to charge it at the high rate you're discharging it, you'll need to run your engine, with a new, big, alternator for at least a couple of hours after each hour of inverter time. As for cost -- the alternator and smart voltage regulator required will be around US$1000. Good lead acid batteries cost around $2 per pound, so it's about $600 for the batteries. Add wiring, fuses, bracket for the alternator, new, heavy battery boxes, and the inverter, and you're well above $2,500 if you do all the work yourself. One possibility is to put in a much smaller new battery set, but a really big alternator -- say 200 amps -- and run your engine whenever you want power. This will require careful management, as the battery will not like being charged at that rate, but it will be a lot lighter. Not much cheaper, though. BTW, if you put in an alternator and battery set solely for the use of the inverter, consider going to 24V. It's much more efficient and requires much smaller wires. Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com Peter Bennett wrote in message rnews.com... On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:41:29 GMT, "John Tretick" wrote: Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John You can use an inverter to power small AC loads for fairly long periods, or large loads (like a microwave or electric kettle) for short periods. If you have a 1200 watt 120 V load such as a kettle, it will draw 10 amps at 120 volts, but the inverter will draw a little over 100 amps from the batteries to produce that power. A Group 27 battery (about 25% larger than a traditional car battery) would be rated about 110 amp-hours, if I recall correctly, but that rating assumes the battery is discharged over 20 hours, which would be a draw of only 5 amps. Drawing 100 amps, you will likely only get around 50% capacity, so you could only run your kettle for about 30 minutes before the battery is completely discharged. To determine the battery capacity you need, you will have to look at the likely AC loads you will want to use, and the length of time you will use each one, to compute the total amp-hours required per day. You will also have to make some provision to recharge the batteries - this will require a high capacity battery charger, and probably an upgrade of the alternator and regulator on the engine, if you expect to be away from shore power for more than a day or two. You should also re-arrange the batteries so that one battery is dedicated to engine starting, and can't be discharged by the inverter or other "house" loads. |
I need DC and AC power source .
John Tretick wrote:
.... Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. I dunno John, Honda's EU2000 costs twice as much but is about the same size/wt as an extra battery and inverter and will prolly cost less over a few years. I just bought a 1000W gas generator much like the Honda for $350 but my needs are less and I have gas for my Atomic-4 aboard anyway. |
I need DC and AC power source .
Wow,
Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why not just convert your AC appliances to DC? No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12 volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too. Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still need a generator if you want to stay cool. good luck "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts
to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps. 1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97 lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V). My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge) I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good 120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps. So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of "convenience" toys, get a generator. Kelton s/v Isle Escape Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote: Wow, Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why not just convert your AC appliances to DC? No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12 volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too. Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still need a generator if you want to stay cool. good luck "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:48:06 -0400, Kelton Joyner
wrote: My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge It was great up to here^^. SSB puts out 150 watts PEAK ENVELOPE POWER. The linear amp is about 65% efficient, these days of IC bricks. Idle current is so low the brick amp is connected directly to the power source, whether the radio is on or off. It's simply cut off electronically. A properly voice-modulated 150WPEP transmitter draws about 5A of "average" current. You'll see the lights dim on PEAKS of voice modulation, but in between words it draws 0 amps when it's putting out 0 watts. If you were operating AM, your average load would go up quite a bit as there is always a carrier being transmitted, modulation or not, but that's not the case on SSB which is very efficient. I'm a ham, obviously. My 650W mobile SSB rig, a Yaesu FT-900 transceiver driving a highly modified TenTec Hercules II 12V linear amp, which is actually FOUR linear amps in parallel, draws a peak load of about 120A from its Mercedes diesel starting battery in parallel with a 130AH deep-cycle boat battery mounted next to the radio and linear in the trunk of my 1973 Mercedes 220diesel (which is the ideal ham car with ZERO electronics). The mobile will still start after operating a contest all day at this level. My average current drain is about 20-25A while transmitting voice. RTTY or PSK31, our new ham radio digital mode, which runs full power at 100% duty cycle, is another matter altogether. For the mobile data mode, I prefer packet radio's burst transmissions at 300 baud. I've operated 650 watts as a mobile, cross-band (VHF to HF), packet repeater at hamfests for years....great fun working the world from a 1W walkie talkie and simple notebook computer. Your fans and lights are a MUCH HIGHER average load than your SSB radio ever was..... Larry W4CSC 3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right? |
I need DC and AC power source .
Kelton,
I think you may have missed the fact that the original poster said that he has no space for a generator. I don't think anyone can disagree with your point that 120 v appliances are generally better than 12v appliances as far as performance goes. My only point was that if you use an inverter to convert from DC to AC, You are throwing a lot of power away which would cause you to run your batteries down a lot quicker. Is a 1500 watt AC hair dryer better than a 12V DC hair dryer? Of course it is, but in this situation the 12V unit will still get the job done (maybe in 5 minutes rather than 2) and it will be more efficient. "Kelton Joyner" wrote in message . .. DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps. 1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97 lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V). My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge) I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good 120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps. So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of "convenience" toys, get a generator. Kelton s/v Isle Escape Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote: Wow, Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why not just convert your AC appliances to DC? No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12 volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too. Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still need a generator if you want to stay cool. good luck "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of 12V
appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses only 168 watts. "Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote in message ... Kelton, I think you may have missed the fact that the original poster said that he has no space for a generator. I don't think anyone can disagree with your point that 120 v appliances are generally better than 12v appliances as far as performance goes. My only point was that if you use an inverter to convert from DC to AC, You are throwing a lot of power away which would cause you to run your batteries down a lot quicker. Is a 1500 watt AC hair dryer better than a 12V DC hair dryer? Of course it is, but in this situation the 12V unit will still get the job done (maybe in 5 minutes rather than 2) and it will be more efficient. "Kelton Joyner" wrote in message . .. DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps. 1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97 lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V). My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge) I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good 120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps. So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of "convenience" toys, get a generator. Kelton s/v Isle Escape Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote: Wow, Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why not just convert your AC appliances to DC? No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12 volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too. Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still need a generator if you want to stay cool. good luck "John Tretick" wrote in message ... Hello Group, + I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor with a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored. Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC.. but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that.. Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how long you can run on it without depleting one battery.. Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose. Thaks, John |
I need DC and AC power source .
Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:
If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of 12V appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses only 168 watts. It never ceases to amaze me that people want hair dryers on a boat. Few appliances are as useless as that. Even my wife's lush mop dries quite quickly when exposed to a moderate breeze & sun and she's recognized that other women PAY to get what amounts to the "boat" look. Those days she cares about looking exactly right, we're at a dock anyway, so we have direct 110. The original poster had a 24' boat and didn't think he had enough room for a generator. Doubt he'll have the room for adequate batteries to support inverter AC at the required levels. Personally, if we 'required' all those goodies, I'd put a Honda 2000i (or whatever the designation of the previously mentioned unit) on the back and be done with it. If I had to persuade my wife or s/o that boating was fun and hairdryers and such were important to her, I'd do marina hopping first and increasingly mix anchoring out to get her used to the idea that she doesn't have to work hard to be absolutely gorgeous. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
I need DC and AC power source .
Larry W4CSC wrote:
.... my 1973 Mercedes 220 diesel which is the ideal ham car .... Thanks. I always wondered why anybody ever bought them. (c: |
I need DC and AC power source .
Thanks for all of the replies on this topic. I think I'll just get a small
inverter and plug it into the 12VDC outlet in the cabin and be happy with that for now. It will suffice to inflate the tube, and run other things when I anchor out next season. Thanks, John "Jere Lull" wrote in message ... Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote: If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of 12V appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses only 168 watts. It never ceases to amaze me that people want hair dryers on a boat. Few appliances are as useless as that. Even my wife's lush mop dries quite quickly when exposed to a moderate breeze & sun and she's recognized that other women PAY to get what amounts to the "boat" look. Those days she cares about looking exactly right, we're at a dock anyway, so we have direct 110. The original poster had a 24' boat and didn't think he had enough room for a generator. Doubt he'll have the room for adequate batteries to support inverter AC at the required levels. Personally, if we 'required' all those goodies, I'd put a Honda 2000i (or whatever the designation of the previously mentioned unit) on the back and be done with it. If I had to persuade my wife or s/o that boating was fun and hairdryers and such were important to her, I'd do marina hopping first and increasingly mix anchoring out to get her used to the idea that she doesn't have to work hard to be absolutely gorgeous. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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